Bug 174 on 12lbs boost. Review please.

[Glider]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

We have been over it before Glider.

I know what it means it terms of strategic logistics. Because you don't accept it does not make it not true or invalid.

Once again, you are all trying really hard to disprove the fact the Battle of Britain was transitional time period and we need to have more information.

There is not any new developments and you are all posting the same old logistical documentation like it is new or changes the picture.

I am afraid old son that you are a busted flush.

Stocks = Stocks i.e. what is stockpiled

Consumption = consumption i.e. what has been used.

What exactly is so difficult to understand

Trying to pretend that consumption is some form of reserve in a different place is plainly false, unless you can explain what fuel the UK was using. After all it had to come from somewhere.

PS I repeat the question about full conversion of FC to 100 Octane in May 1941, its a simple statement that you made, without any pressure and a simple question.

What do you have to support this statement?

You would expect far more from me if I made such a statement, so its only fair.

To not reply to such simple questions is in your words amaturish.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by bongodriver

Ummm....you forgot about the other RAF commands using 100 octane as it had become the main fuel for operational units so it was being used by bombers too.

Wasn't only the 2nd groups Blenheims using it in the outer tanks for take off and escaping?

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by robtek

When i read 192151000 gallons for 150 days for about 700 fighters at about 75 gallons/h i calculate 24,2h flight time a day. Confusing!

150 days?

10 July – 31 October 1940 = 114 days

[bongodriver]

Originally Posted by robtek

Wasn't only the 2nd groups Blenheims using it in the outer tanks for take off and escaping?

Well they were ordered late 1938 so by late 1939 one can guess everything switched to 100 octane (the conversion to use 100 octane is not exactly a staggering piece of engineering achievement) but so far that is a guess, I also believe bomber command was cleared for the use of 100 octane in 1940.

Crumpp's theory on BoB being a transitional period is daft, the fuel transition was complete by the start, the only transition was the introduction of new marks of Spitfire.

[NZtyphoon]

Originally Posted by robtek

When i read 192151000 gallons for 150 days for about 700 fighters at about 75 gallons/h i calculate 24,2h flight time a day. Confusing!

Exactly, please explain why so much fuel was expended, yet Crumpp et al maintain that only about 1/3rd of the RAF's frontline fighter strength was responsible, plus Blenheim squadrons? Say 250 fighters? How did 250 fighters chew through 192,151,000 gallons of fuel? - by flying about 72 hrs a day. Whats more confusing, the fact that 192,151,000 gallons of 100 octane fuel was consumed, or that only a small proportion of FC's frontline strength was responsible for using it?

No doubt Crumpp will come up with some old shop-worn argument that Consumption didn't mean consumption, but he has no evidence for that either, just speculation.

[Crumpp]

Or are this only the stocks?

Yes it is only the stocks. The fuel distributed to the supply system for use was only 10,000 tons for Jun-Aug 1940.

Considering that the RAF planned for 2770 tons for 4 squadrons of Hurricanes per week. Now that includes all the feeder/emergency fields to be stocked with a supply, 3 weeks of operational stores in case the trains gets bombed, and all the flying required.

Using their math, 10,000 tons is enough for 15 squadrons or adding 5 squadrons per month.

[Seadog]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Yes it is only the stocks. The fuel distributed to the supply system for use was only 10,000 tons for Jun-Aug 1940.

Considering that the RAF planned for 2770 tons for 4 squadrons of Hurricanes per week. Now that includes all the feeder/emergency fields to be stocked with a supply, 3 weeks of operational stores in case the trains gets bombed, and all the flying required.

Using their math, 10,000 tons is enough for 15 squadrons or adding 5 squadrons per month.

2770 tons = 6204800lb or 861778 gals. If we allow 75 gallons per sortie, this is sufficient fuel for 11490 sorties...

if we assume 3 sorties a day (an impossibly high number per day!), for 80 aircraft, this gives us enough fuel for 48 days at 240 sorties/day...

Crumpp, you seem to have no problems producing pages of complex formulas regarding flight data but then fall flat on your face with these simple calculations...

[Al Schlageter]

Originally Posted by Crumpp

Considering that the RAF planned for 2770 tons for 4 squadrons of Hurricanes per week.

Using their math, 10,000 tons is enough for 15 squadrons or adding 5 squadrons per month.

Source?

Which 15 Hurricane squadrons?

[Crumpp]

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.o.../AASF-Fuel.pdf

[Crumpp]

if we assume 3 sorties a day (an impossibly high number per day!), for 80 aircraft, this gives us enough fuel for 48 days at 240 sorties/day...

It is a little more complicated than that seadog. The RAF correctly plans for their logistical train to be interupted by the enemy.

Therefore, they correctly plan to emplace several weeks supply at the aerodrome, supply the emergency fields the aircraft might have to land at, and keep several more weeks of fuel dispursed around the log train earmarked for that unit.

If you just plan to have enough fuel on hand for what you are going to fly, then you will be in real trouble when the enemy bombs your airfield storage tanks, shoots your trucks up on the road, or hits the railyard. You will be out of the game in one enemy attack.

Read the logistical plan if they had to supply the 4 squadrons in France. That is the amount of fuel in the system earmarked for those squadrons to fly for just ONE WEEK.

If they want to continue to fly operationally and resupply their unit after an enemy attack, the RAF is planning to have some 8 weeks worth of fuel on the ground and available at short notice.

Don't you think that makes sense given the fact the Luftwaffe was targeting the airfields during the BoB?

So when you do your simplistic calculation for one week of flying, keep in mind, there is 8 weeks of fuel required to be available for that one week in the air.