Fresh stuff from sukhoi.ru (Discussion)

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by furbs

Just a idea, maybe it should of come with the release after 5+ years of development or the 15 months since, just MHO of course.

They ran out of money (7 mill for development) because the sim wasn't and still isn't good enough, it got panned on release by the critics and quite rightly, so it didn't sell enough units.
The fault lies in the almost 10 years of terrible badly managed development time, where the money was chucked in the bin and then the 2 years of rushed catch up time to get the half finished botched poor excuse for a BOB sim release out the door that we see now.

i don't think there was 5 years development. 1.5 years? for the CLOD engine , I think they scraped the original SOW engine.

2/10/2010 "were STARTING a whole game engine from SCRATCH" Ilya

plus what there playing looks alot like the preview from the CD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xoz1Kb2wkPE

[klem]

Originally Posted by Thee_oddball

i don't think there was 5 years development. 1.5 years? for the CLOD engine , I think they scraped the original SOW engine.

2/10/2010 "were STARTING a whole game engine from SCRATCH" Ilya

plus what there playing looks alot like the preview from the CD

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

[philip.ed]

Actually, the game Luthier is playing there is the current one. This was right before they started installing the current landscape features, Luthier himself saying that parts of the current landscape could actually be seen in the video. They weren't happy to have to do it as the game was no where near ready for testing (as the choppy FPS shows).

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by kendo65

Probably all true. The situation we've ended up in was not the plan that's for sure.

I'm still aware of the potential of this sim. I've ripped into it in these posts over the aspects that are bad but I'm aware of the current good points - quality of the cockpits, damage modelling, etc and I'm aware of the breadth of detail and vision behind the whole concept.

When (if?) they finally get this together (hopefully with BOM) with full dynamic weather and everything working as it should the results could be fantastic.

It's the awareness of that and the fact that the early screw-ups and problems have mangled my expectation of COD being the ultimate Battle of Britain sim that makes the disappointment worse. The mess-ups have ruined the possibilities for COD and turned it into little more than an extended prototype and testing ground for development of the engine. 5 years into the future if this sim matures and we have a really great Russian Front, Mediterranean and maybe even the Pacific the fact that the COD/ Battle of Britain installment will (without further work) be the 'ugly duckling' of the series is difficult for me to accept. It's become such a squandered opportunity to make a great game about a battle that many of us (Brits especially) had real interest and passion for.

If the community don't remedy the problems my only hope is that when the devs come to revisit the western front to bring us into 41-43 they could provide map improvements and extra features that would flesh it all out, but it's a big disappointment to be asked to wait that long.

The main problem with COD and the Battle of Britain type scenarios is the unfinished, unstable game engine and features. The game engine and most features will have to be fixed if the developer expects to sell the next Sequel and develop an MMO. IF and When the engine and features are fixed COD will be updated with patches and a combined install with the next sequel. These fixes should allow the community to make far more realistic campaigns. My only concern is their implementation of radar and home defence type vectors. That said I know they aren't that far off as the sim has always run fairly well with large amounts of aircraft on the highly optimized system that I use to only run COD.

As far as waiting for the Sequel for fixes, this may not be the case, as they would likely use COD and the community to test many of these fixes and features, before releasing the next sequel.

[Jaws2002]

Originally Posted by klem

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

So it's nice to see we've finally convinced you to change your mind.

[Chivas]

The development did have some employee problems and one of them was the water coder, but it was never said how critical those people who left or were fired were. I know when I was testing Gaijins WOP many aspects of the sim appeared very similiar the original IL-2.
(other than the FM which I know they borrowed from the original IL-2) and I wondered if some of SOW people left to work with Gaijin.

[Feathered_IV]

I wonder if any of that internal disharmony still exists within the current team. Luthier said just prior to release that he took the pilot animations guy off his job and put him on something else at the last moment. He said that the person in question "hates his guts for it" and acknowledged that it was a big mistake to do so. One also wonders how Luthier is seen by his staff. Do the home grown Russian team view him as an American and an outsider? Must be tough to hold it all together.

[hiro]

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

true

yeah like Oleg . . . the guy who designed the original successor's engine and the original game . . .

But I think Ilya and the current crew keep at it, they will have a game worthy of Il-2 1946.


The time its taking them? Even to diagnose which part of the code the problems are having takes a long time to separate, especially if the code is complicated /and or different parts are co-dependent on each other (which Il-2 ClOD's code fits), even if you have the original coders.

Heck, and I'm not counting that could be architectural / design issue, and then that really messes up because once that is changed, everything else has to be changed also . . .

[Thee_oddball]

Originally Posted by klem

I think that's generally correct. Something was happening during the last year or two before release and what we have is definitely not the product of 7 years development unless it was wandering woefully in the wilderness. Also, in that video, most if not all was taken from IL-2 1946. It has always given me the feeling that either the guts were ripped out of it for some reason (<enter political/finacial/skulduggery reason here> or it was started again from scratch around late 2009/2010.

Agree except that what you are seeing in the video is the Alpha I believe of the original SOW engine, if you look at the the cockpit at 2:10 of the 87 and then look at this video from 2006 of the upcoming storm ot war they are the same. Also there is something blurred out at the top of the screen between 2:10 and 2:20...i dont think it is a FPS indicator. i dont think it could be 46...way to choppy...unless he has a real POS PC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgIGWCcsO78

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Actually, the game Luthier is playing there is the current one. This was right before they started installing the current landscape features, Luthier himself saying that parts of the current landscape could actually be seen in the video. They weren't happy to have to do it as the game was no where near ready for testing (as the choppy FPS shows).

Phil i think that is SOW, if you look at the original video from 2006 it is not smooth...meaning unoptimised code or the PC could not handle it or both, as for the landscape look at the second video..i know the quality sucks but you will see the landscapes look the same as in time index 1:48-53 of the original video I posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9OWQ...layer_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3sf0eiQ--o

Originally Posted by Jaws2002

I know that sometimes during 2009-2010 they fired/lost a few key programers, including their main programer that worked on Il-2 and designed a big chunk of the new game engine. It looks like the new guys aren't able to fill that void. I think they are still trying to recover from that loss.

Of course I may be wrong, but that's the only thing that would explain the dificulty they have fixing some bugs in the engine. The guys trying to fix it, are not the ones that build it.

Jaws I am %100 sure they did not start writing SOW in .NET in 2005/6, whom ever the programmers were that they lost in 2009/10 must have taken the engine with them because at the same time ilya stated they were writing a NEW engine from scratch...so they didn't try to fix the bugs in the old engine because for what ever reason they did not have access to it.. hence the reason for using .NET