how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Liz Lemon

I wonder how many people realize that 15mph difference from stated performance was generally accepted in production aircraft.

I remember reading a report where production P-38s were performing 25mph below their specified performance and over 1000m below their stated max altitude. This happened to be a bit below the army air force cut off and the aircraft went to naca for testing. As it turned out the ducting for the turbo chargers had gaps of a few millimeters. These gaps were enough to make the air turn a bit too turbulent for the turbo-superchargers to ingest properly, and robbed the aircraft of a fairly significant amount of power. This resulted in a max speed and alt quite a bit lower then specified.

Now I'm not saying the FM of this game is completely borked or flawed... but to expect that the performance figures from test aircraft that were probably hand assembled and tested by the best pilots and flown in the best conditions possible... well the stated performance of such test shouldn't be taken as gospel when it comes to aircraft flying on the front lines. Small flaws in production, and the dings and dents that come with field operation can rob and aircraft of a surprising amount of top speed.

And this isn't even getting into the issues of pressure, temps and the like. Which also have a very large impact on an aircraft. Just ask anyone who has flown a cessna on a winter day and a hot, humid summer day.

As a matter of fact every! german plane leaving the production line was tested to meet the standards before it was delivered to the Luftwaffe.

Any plane not meeting the tolerances was sent back for refurbishing.

I believe the procedure became more lax in 1945, though.

I also believe that the allies had something similar.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by adonys

Actually, flying high is a BIG problem in Il2CoD, as from above 2-3 k you see nothing rendered on the ground, not even those big damn radar antennas, so, you have to actually come low to lock on your target, or dive blindly hoping for the best.

Negative - I fly at high alt very often and I am able to see contacts very low below with no problem. I find the contact recognition in CloD quite amazing as often, yoo only see what is a glass reflection and even at long distance, you can see if it's RAF camouflage or a 109.

Very often I can observe dogfights on the sea level while I am flying at 17-20k. It takes a while to get used to it, it certainly is different (and better) than 1946 but once you adapt, I'd say the depiction of distance and depth is very good in this sim.

Regarding coordination on ATAG - I disagree strongly, but it very much depends when and with whom you're flying I guess.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by robtek

As a matter of fact every! german plane leaving the production line was tested to meet the standards before it was delivered to the Luftwaffe.

Any plane not meeting the tolerances was sent back for refurbishing.

I believe the procedure became more lax in 1945, though.

I also believe that the allies had something similar.

Of course, robtek. But still, the tolerance for max speed at sea level for Bf 109E was 500kim/h +- 5%. That means that anything between 475 - 525km/h would do and they'd be concerned about that MINIUS more than a plus. Every aircraft delivered to the customer (air force) would be tested before accepting it, that's for sure.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Negative - I fly at high alt very often and I am able to see contacts very low below with no problem. I find the contact recognition in CloD quite amazing as often, yoo only see what is a glass reflection and even at long distance, you can see if it's RAF camouflage or a 109.

Very often I can observe dogfights on the sea level while I am flying at 17-20k. It takes a while to get used to it, it certainly is different (and better) than 1946 but once you adapt, I'd say the depiction of distance and depth is very good in this sim.

Regarding coordination on ATAG - I disagree strongly, but it very much depends when and with whom you're flying I guess.

Re. the contact recognition, which resolution are you using? At 1920x1200 I can't spot contacts from medium distance, and I often experience the disappearance of planes when approaching at certain angles.

Ins

[ATAG_Keller]

Originally Posted by adonys

Each time I'm logging in on ATAG I'm also logging in on ATAG's TS server. I'm playing Blue side only.

I haven't seen in these last couple of weeks any kind of coordinated activity (which is more than 2-3 players acting together), not from Blues, and neither from Reds.

I have seen teamwork like this many many times. The Blenheim jockeys are quite often flying in formations of 3 or 4 and sometimes with fighter escort. Rest assured that the Blue team would be doing this if it were possible.

As it stands right now, flying even two Blue bombers together will cause someone's launcher to crash long before they make it to target. Once we get the patch you'll see human piloted Ju-88 and He-111 formations of 4 or more all the time.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Same here, great difficulties seeing contacts at 1920x1080. Another strange thing in the game are ground targets. For example on ATAG I could see where the tank formations etc. were BEFORE the higher resolution terrain is drawn. The stick out like black dots on the ground. And this is from any altitude, not tied to distance.

[bw_wolverine]

Originally Posted by Robo.

Negative - I fly at high alt very often and I am able to see contacts very low below with no problem. I find the contact recognition in CloD quite amazing as often, yoo only see what is a glass reflection and even at long distance, you can see if it's RAF camouflage or a 109.

Very often I can observe dogfights on the sea level while I am flying at 17-20k. It takes a while to get used to it, it certainly is different (and better) than 1946 but once you adapt, I'd say the depiction of distance and depth is very good in this sim.

Regarding coordination on ATAG - I disagree strongly, but it very much depends when and with whom you're flying I guess.

Yeah, tell us your settings because this is CERTAINLY not the case for me.

[Robo.]

I am using native res of 1680*1020 on a ''22 screen, all settings maxed up except for texture size on 'high'. I often watch dogfights on the deck and I am not bothered to dive in as it's too low. I was also struggling to see the contacts when I switched to CloD from Il-2 Sturmovik but somehow I got used to how the game works and I appreciate how they modelled this important side of the sim. Often you only see flick of the canopy shine in the sun. Even at rather great distance, you can see the black spinner of a RAF fighter or the yellow nose or the two engines of a 110. Cool feature imho. Flying at the French coast, I can see the 109 climbing feet wet as a distinctive dot while I am cruising at 15-20k as I said. If there is a dogfight down below, I can see dots clearly and the turning one are RAF, climbing ones are 109s. I also appreciate that you're not able to see tracers from like 250miles sway.




Coming closer though, I also experience what Insuber is describing and LODS are a bit weird at certain angles.

Same for what Flanker35 says - ground targets or map markers visible from miles away.

Other thing I find cool is how the light is breaking through the glass and how the glass of various thickness reflects and changes light, e.g. looking at a 109 through the armoured windshield and voila - the enemy is hard to see against the sea (I am diving on him obviously) and / or through the whitish propeller disc if I have the sun behind me. I need to steer away so he's in my small window otherwise I can barely see him in certail light conditions. This seems extremely realistic and I like it very much.

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

Same here, great difficulties seeing contacts at 1920x1080. Another strange thing in the game are ground targets. For example on ATAG I could see where the tank formations etc. were BEFORE the higher resolution terrain is drawn. The stick out like black dots on the ground. And this is from any altitude, not tied to distance.

Add that flak guns can be seen *through* the terrain as black dots ...

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by Robo.

I am using native res of 1680*1020 on a ''22 screen, all settings maxed up except for texture size on 'high'. I often watch dogfights on the deck and I am not bothered to dive in as it's too low. I was also struggling to see the contacts when I switched to CloD from Il-2 Sturmovik but somehow I got used to how the game works and I appreciate how they modelled this important side of the sim. Often you only see flick of the canopy shine in the sun. Even at rather great distance, you can see the black spinner of a RAF fighter or the yellow nose or the two engines of a 110. Cool feature imho. Flying at the French coast, I can see the 109 climbing feet wet as a distinctive dot while I am cruising at 15-20k as I said. If there is a dogfight down below, I can see dots clearly and the turning one are RAF, climbing ones are 109s. I also appreciate that you're not able to see tracers from like 250miles sway.




Coming closer though, I also experience what Insuber is describing and LODS are a bit weird at certain angles.

Same for what Flanker35 says - ground targets or map markers visible from miles away.

Other thing I find cool is how the light is breaking through the glass and how the glass of various thickness reflects and changes light, e.g. looking at a 109 through the armoured windshield and voila - the enemy is hard to see against the sea (I am diving on him obviously) and / or through the whitish propeller disc if I have the sun behind me. I need to steer away so he's in my small window otherwise I can barely see him in certail light conditions. This seems extremely realistic and I like it very much.

Thank you for the answer. I enjoy too the rendering of objects through the canopy and windshield, where light refraction plays a role in contacts visualization.
But "dots" aren't visible against ground in my 26" monitor, 1920x1200, from 3000 m.

Cheers,
Insuber