A request for more features to make IL-2 a better game, not just better software.

[furbs]

Yep, spot on Alpha.

When it comes to co-ops and mission building, the problem is both the new style user interface, which is very poorly documented, as well as placing all the onus on the players.

Imagine if you bought the latest novel from your latest author, cracked it open and it was just a book full of blank pages and a note saying 'write it yourself, I'm sure it'll be good.'

Making missions is difficult. Making fun, balanced missions even more so. There are very few people willing to sit down and write these things and expecting your player base to do it all themselves is a piss poor attitude.

I'd rather this game have the wrong shade of grey on London bridge's railings and half decent mission generator than what we have now.

[zapatista]

Alpha, can we please start a dedicated thread on what we want for coop function to work the way we need it (based on our collective 10 yrs of il2 experience, and how it might be well implemented in some other games). this fruitful discussion, and the illustrations and screenshots you made, will be invisible to luthier who needs to see it (so he can understand why we are frustrated with the current system), and it will just disappear as the thread slides into oblivion

i am also one of those who is frustrated by the lack of proper coop implementation in CoD, and i dont want to spend weeks learning some complex and complicated new scripting method, however good and advanced it might be, its not very usable for most current coop users.

your screenshots with the comments illustrate very well how this issue can be solved fairly simply and quickly by luthier. i would add to those:
1) once coop has started new players should still be able to join, and either choose a new plane on the tarmac or join an existing aircraft (taking over an AI plane, or taking up a crew position in a multi crewed aircraft). that way we get past the boring wait times waiting for a late comer to join, and when people get killed early they dont have to wait 60 to 90 min for the mission to restart in order to play again.
2) when RL players get killed in a mission, they should be able to continue playing by similarly taking over a friendly AI position to control a new aircraft, or take over an AI position on a multi crewed aircraft.
note: server owner should be able to prevent new people from joining if he chooses, and be able to limit numbers of planes a killed player can take over (to prevent abuse by some disruptive players online etc..)


by all means keep the advanced scripting methods that have now been added in CoD, so people can start using them as their skills evolve and they get used to the new system, but additionally it needs at least some kind of console/interface added to make that advanced scripting method easier to use.

[ElAurens]

Frankly a simplified GUI for making DF missions is needed as well.

I used to make a lot of DF and a few CoOp missions for the BlitzPigs, but I can't even place a base on a map in CloD.

You should not have to understand a programming language, or whatever it's called, to be able to make missions at least at a basic level.

I think that developers often fall into a trap that has them thinking that their customers are developers as well. It's easy to do if you work with it all day long. Not seeing the forest for the trees.

I don't work in IT.

I'm not a programmer.

I do (or at least used to) enjoy making missions, from the research to the placement of objects. I derived a great amount of satisfaction from seeing my work come to life online.

So how about a simple GUI option for the FMB for those of us that don't want to write scripts and dink about with all that computer boffin stuff?
I know I'm not alone in thinking this. At the very least just implement the ability to use IL2 FMB controls.

[Flanker15]

Good post OP, those are my problems with the sim too.
A dev can make all the realistic plane models and physics in the world but people still won't want to play it if the game they're in is boring and frustrating to play.

[FG28_Kodiak]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Frankly a simplified GUI for making DF missions is needed as well.

I used to make a lot of DF and a few CoOp missions for the BlitzPigs, but I can't even place a base on a map in CloD.

You should not have to understand a programming language, or whatever it's called, to be able to make missions at least at a basic level.

I think that developers often fall into a trap that has them thinking that their customers are developers as well. It's easy to do if you work with it all day long. Not seeing the forest for the trees.

I don't work in IT.

I'm not a programmer.

I do (or at least used to) enjoy making missions, from the research to the placement of objects. I derived a great amount of satisfaction from seeing my work come to life online.

So how about a simple GUI option for the FMB for those of us that don't want to write scripts and dink about with all that computer boffin stuff?
I know I'm not alone in thinking this. At the very least just implement the ability to use IL2 FMB controls.

So and why don't you simply ask for a script in the Missionbuilder-Area.
Describe what you want and you will get it, for me it's about 5min to make a simple script. The most scripts you can reuse in other missions. Also don't be shy .

[csThor]

Quite honestly I am not one of the few who can actually make sense of the C# gibberish CloD uses for scripting. And I know that area will always be a closed book to me, I simply lack the brain connections to make sense of any kind of coding language. I also heartily agree that the game desperately needs some kind of FMB support interface to help people like me who have no clue about coding.
That said I am quite astonished that people want the horrible old canned Coop format back which really excluded any kind of fluidity, any kind of surprises and deviations from a pre-defined set of parameters. They were, IMO, essentially like a comic strip which ran along a pre-defined path (which the player, with a minimum of intelligence, could easily predict) and had little to do with the conditions on the WW2 battlefield with its fluidity and fog of war.

My 0,02 € ...

[Insuber]

Originally Posted by csThor

Quite honestly I am not one of the few who can actually make sense of the C# gibberish CloD uses for scripting. And I know that area will always be a closed book to me, I simply lack the brain connections to make sense of any kind of coding language. I also heartily agree that the game desperately needs some kind of FMB support interface to help people like me who have no clue about coding.
That said I am quite astonished that people want the horrible old canned Coop format back which really excluded any kind of fluidity, any kind of surprises and deviations from a pre-defined set of parameters. They were, IMO, essentially like a comic strip which ran along a pre-defined path (which the player, with a minimum of intelligence, could easily predict) and had little to do with the conditions on the WW2 battlefield with its fluidity and fog of war.

My 0,02 € ...

+1.
Yes to a GUI for the FMB, no the old Il2 style coops.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I used to make a lot of DF and a few CoOp missions for the BlitzPigs, but I can't even place a base on a map in CloD.

You should not have to understand a programming language, or whatever it's called, to be able to make missions at least at a basic level.

To place a base on a map select an object called "SpawnArea" (or similar as I use a RU version) in the FMB ObjectBrowser and CTRL-click where you want to place it. Rightclick for its properties and edit them. No need to learn C#.

An old-IL-2 style coop can be flown in current CLOD version by copying the this coop-script file into the same folder where the mission file is located. No need edit or even open the script file, just give it the same name as your mission file. No need to learn C#.

Any single mission can be converted to coop by removing a tick from a "player" checkbox in players aircraft properties in FMB GUI. No need to learn C#.

C# knowledge is not needed for creation of simple missions equal in complexity to original Il-2 coops. C# is needed to create simultaneous coop & DF combinations within the same airspace like it historically happened in WWII.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by Ataros

To place a base on a map select an object called "SpawnArea" (or similar as I use a RU version) in the FMB ObjectBrowser and CTRL-click where you want to place it. Rightclick for its properties and edit them. No need to learn C#.

An old-IL-2 style coop can be flown in current CLOD version by copying the this coop-script file into the same folder where the mission file is located. No need edit or even open the script file, just give it the same name as your mission file. No need to learn C#.

Any single mission can be converted to coop by removing a tick from a "player" checkbox in players aircraft properties in FMB GUI. No need to learn C#.

C# knowledge is not needed for creation of simple missions equal in complexity to original Il-2 coops. C# is needed to create simultaneous coop & DF combinations within the same airspace like it historically happened in WWII.

Great, thanks for this