A mod approval thought for 4.09 for the 1C team

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Robert

Why should they take ANY time away from current projects? IL2 is about an inch from being abandonwear. It's development life (with the exception of the 4.09 patch) is done. There's no more money to be made from IL2 so anything we get in the form of the 4.09 patch is gravy. Expecting 1C to add in 'illegal' hacks to me is quite insulting.

"Here ya go Oleg. Your game was so bad WE decided to improve it for you. Could you be so kind to include them into 4.09? It won't be to hard to make sure it doesn't affect other portions of the game. It won't take but a few of your guys to impliment it. Don't worry about the lost man hours you'll still have to pay. We're such an appreciative forum and any efforts will still be met with derision and scorn. Thank you very much, buddy. Love you Oleg."

I know you mean well, CRASH but my answer would be a HUGE and emphatic NO to that suggestion.

Furthermore. I'd rather have nothing interfere with the developement of BoB.

+2

[DioMac]

Originally Posted by csThor

+2

-1

Might not be the right place for this post but here goes...

As someone who has had IL2 since the demo and have lurked the zoo since the early days I must say the "feel" of BoB and this "community" is much different. The forum almost reminds me of my CWoS days (I went by the name of Rhino). It's cold and the eCliques are very obvious. As for BoB its blatantly obvious that the devs are much more $ focused this time around.

As for the rotting remains of the zoo, I have counted over ten new posts by new comers coming to the game, but they mostly just get ignored or if they inoccently ask about the unspeakable that they have heard about then they get flamed it never come back. it's a real shame.

It's enought to put me off buying BoB if it ever comes out. I think I'll be happy to stay with IL2 and the incredible enhancements visual and immersability (I know thats not a word) that the unspeakable has bought to my gaming experience.

[Baron]

Originally Posted by x__CRASH__x

I'm not sure if civil mod talk is taboo, but I wanted to air out a thought I had on the subject. I haven't downloaded or used any of the mods. But I don't disagree with them. I do worry about them going out of control and cheating will follow. So I had a thought.

From what I know, there have been some very good gains made with mods. They've put cockpits in some of the AI planes that would be fun to fly. They "corrected" a few things the modders believed to be wrong with the sim. They've upgraded the cockpit graphics of a few airplanes. And they've improved the sounds, from what I am told.

So, since the work is essentially done for these modifications, would it not be pretty easy for the 1C team to review the mods, evaluate their merits, incorporate them into a patch, and lock the game back up so no "nefarious", "questionsable" or downright "cheating" modifications make it into the game?

I essence, modders do the work and submit it to 1C who approves/disapproves it. Incorporates it in a patch, and releases it to the community. The community could even get involved voting on what mods they want included or left out.

What's the downside side? I only see positives. Improvements are made to an already fantastic, long standing game. 1C doesn't have to take much time away from their work on other projects. 1C keeps the IL-2 series locked up and hack free. The community is happy, and has new toys to play with.

Is there a downside?

The problem with that, as far as i can see, is that modders can release mods weather 1C approves of them or not since the code is out there and as for the time beeing there isnt any cheat filter online.

The "3:rd" party modder doesnt lose anything by not abiding to 1C rules as where the case (im sure) when 3:rd party developers did work in the past before the code was cracked.(or maby it was the locked code that prevented them from going beserk....i wouldnt know)

so approved mods in the future is kind of pointless since there will also be a boat load of non approved mods out there no matter what.



Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw. If it was only 1 singel ac done to fit the whole game/gameplay it might be passeble, but everyone knows it wont stop there.

Rules ar fine..as long as people follow them...wich they don`t .....if one dont force them (with locked code for axample)

[DioMac]

Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw. If it was only 1 singel ac done to fit the whole game/gameplay it might be passeble, but everyone knows it wont stop there.

Rules ar fine..as long as people follow them...wich they don`t .....if one dont force them (with locked code for axample)[/QUOTE]


And is God...Sorry I mean Oleg any different? How many notable people in the community bitch and scream about how their favourite ride is wrong because Oleg and Co were biased in the coding of the 'plane becasue thats how they think it should be? the F6F as an example.

Whats the difference Baron? AAA are extremely vigilant with FM DM changes. Just as vicous as certain people are in their denouncement of those using mods (Which for some reason they persist in calling a "hack") sometimes I havent been able to tell the difference. If someone posts there asking "can I have it this way becasue its super cool and I dont like it how it is" they are quickly banished or told to move along and the threads are often locked. Same as you people are at the zoo and here.

As for the Spit Mk.1 I have and I must say that it isn't some idiots wet dream. they have done a top notch job on it. The carby cutout works just right and so does the lack of firepower and I could go on and on.

Ultimately I think it comes down to a matter of pride. You have the newer younger generation who are getting into simming, and you have the adult jaded group who want to leave things as they are.

I know this post is incoherent. It's later and I'm very tired. I'll probably shake my head in embaressment when i read it tomorow but I'm just so sick of the stupidity and hypocrisy that some people have

[Thunderbolt56]

Originally Posted by Baron

Not long ago AAA did NOT "allow" FM, DM (weapons) changes but now it seems thats out the window with for ex. a completly new Spit Mk1 with a completly new flight model done by people in the manner they "think" it should be, the same people who a few months ago did not allow FM, DM changes btw...

I guess that's the thing I take issue with overall. I lurk over at AAA and have done considerable reading on what IS being done, what HAS been done and what's NOT ALLOWED to be done... at least for now. The "idea" of finally getting a MKI Spit is cool, but the whole thing goes against what heretofore was taboo. So, in that regard, I don't get it. Are there rules in the mod community? They say there are, but apparently some have the notion they're above the law or can change them if they feel like it...regardless of how much integrity they think they use in the implementation.

I've heard great things about the MKI as well as the very good "slot" map that's close to release and, for now at least, it seems the people that do it to truly enhance the sim are the ones in charge. I'm just worried about the less-trustworthy people that truly DO hack and I'm growing more exhausted at feeling I have to scrutinize everyone so closely. All the rumors that the sky is falling, IL2 is dead, the UBI forums are a rotting corpse etc,... are vastly over rated. Things have changed and they certainly aren't what they were even a year ago, but all of them are like a 60 year old...(long in the tooth, but not quite ready for retirement).

We are at a point where people have more choices regarding this sim and most will make good choices. It's the 2% that don't (and the inability to regulate them) that concerns me the most. And just so I'm not misunderstood, I'm not advocating against the mods or the mod community. I have some friends that are heavily involved (in both use and developement) and I trust their integrity implicitly. I don't like the fragmentation of the overall community, the possibility of true cheaters getting larger and the resultant accusations (many on false grounds).

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I do the BOB II WOV now and it's great fun. Trying to shoot down anything with six .303 is... well a lesson in patience and exasperation. I feel sorry for those poor pilots that had to face the German fighters with those 20MM cannons. My gosh, to be so smart the Brits weren't awake when they put so little firepower into their fighters. Spits or Hurricanes, just weren't ready for much. The British pilots were just one heck of a bunch of great men, real heroes in my book.

Those .303 were like peashooters up next to those 20mm cannons.

So, yeah the BOB SOW will not be as much fun as taking a late model spit and flying against just about any kind of enemy online currently.

well, ask all those Lufwaffe Pilots who had to fly a Bf109E-1 , armed with 4xMG17

and the E-1 was the second most 109 version used during the BoB !

[csThor]

At least the notion that they (AAA) have any kind of "seniority" or "saying" about the macks provides at least one good laugh a day. Talk about self-delusion. I'd bet my graphics tablet that there are a pile of other sites which "correct" FM/DM.

[Kaptein_Damli]

Originally Posted by x__CRASH__x

I'm not sure if civil mod talk is taboo, but I wanted to air out a thought I had on the subject. I haven't downloaded or used any of the mods. But I don't disagree with them. I do worry about them going out of control and cheating will follow. So I had a thought.

From what I know, there have been some very good gains made with mods. They've put cockpits in some of the AI planes that would be fun to fly. They "corrected" a few things the modders believed to be wrong with the sim. They've upgraded the cockpit graphics of a few airplanes. And they've improved the sounds, from what I am told.

So, since the work is essentially done for these modifications, would it not be pretty easy for the 1C team to review the mods, evaluate their merits, incorporate them into a patch, and lock the game back up so no "nefarious", "questionsable" or downright "cheating" modifications make it into the game?

I essence, modders do the work and submit it to 1C who approves/disapproves it. Incorporates it in a patch, and releases it to the community. The community could even get involved voting on what mods they want included or left out.

What's the downside side? I only see positives. Improvements are made to an already fantastic, long standing game. 1C doesn't have to take much time away from their work on other projects. 1C keeps the IL-2 series locked up and hack free. The community is happy, and has new toys to play with.

Is there a downside?

I coundn´t be more agree! Look at the community around Lock On FC. Look at all the beautyful mods available. Some of the modders over there even got employed by ED to work on Black Shark! That´s the spirit. A mod for sound, 6DOF or even scenery mod only makes the original game looks better. I can´t understand why such mods improve cheating? Ie, you fly at Hyperlobby on a server and surely some user will not have Track Ir. Well, then you are "cheating" because the opposing opponent only uses his hatswitch! Cheating in Lock On FC is not a problem as far I know.

[tater]

To be fair, the notion that "No FM/weapon changes" went out the window with the Spit I is wrong. No weapon/FM changes on aircraft that a player with the stock game can see are permitted. If you changed the FM on the F4F-4, for example, and played online, you'd be a UFO since people with the stock game will see you in an F4F-4, because the F4F-4 exists in their game.

The Spit I is a NEW plane. It has a unique, new, plane slot. I couldn't fly the Spit I online because it would not exist on the server's spawn list since it does not take the place of an extant plane. No more do variant plane types replace the stock plane (with unchanged FM), but they now can be added as brand new planes. Only people with the same mod installed will ever see them.

That's why they waited til they could add entirely new planes to allow a new FM to be added.

tater

[klem]

As one of the older group, let me start by saying that I am not jaded. Also I challenge the idea that the up and comings somehow have some kind of edge over the validity of FMs etc. What hasn't changed is how the aircraft actually flew. Some of the 'jaded' group probably actually know.

The main argument here has circled around modders (or hackers). They are called hackers because they have broken into, or hacked, the game code. I am against them for one simple reason, I don't know their credentials whereas Oleg at least tries to stay true to his.

I don't doubt that some of these guys are as keen as I am to achieve 'realism' but as I said, I don't know them, have no references for them and have no reason to believe they have got it any more right than Oleg. So I would rather it had been left alone because I wouldn't want it to become like CFS used to be (still is?) with ridiculous hacks, FMs etc. It became a joke.

I play this game for the best realism it can give me. The unavoidable truth is that the hackers, good and bad, will grow and the bad ones will destroy the game, not SOW, unless hacks are detected by the online servers and the players kicked off.

If the hackers want to run their own servers thats fine... but whose hacks? How chaotic is that going to become? Or how narrow a player base will it support if they implement "my hacks only" servers.

Roll on SOW:BoB. It will be just as exciting (challenging) using 8 (not 6 btw) .303s against 109Es (two reduced muzzle velocity cannons & m/c guns). Of course we RAF types will get our arses kicked by cannons and superior numbers. At least I hope so, because that's how it was. It isn't about having FUN dammit! It's about the experience!

The subsequent rollouts of 'Leaning towards France', 'North Africa', 'Burma' or whatever will keep our interest alive. And yes, I will still play late war IL2 until SOW gets that far.

And no, I'm not interested in naff 'I can't cope' wonder woman views, transparent frames, pink camouflage, uber death rays... bahhh, humbug..... crochety grumble..... I can get that kind of stuff in an Xbox, Playstation, hacked CFS or whatever.