Patch 4.11 is a gift to open pit UFO fliers

[jermin]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

Your also not specifying a boom and zoom (giant loop) trajectory which overheats the engine MUCH quicker (but that is the manner in which these planes are to be flown).

I can't agree more!

Level flight testing is far from a proper method. You won't fly straight level forever in an air combat, will you? Try turning, climbing, zooming before you compare your test result with real-life data.

Besides, my testing result is similar to WhistlinggDeath's.

I've created a duel quick mission to test the overheating of German fighters and then Allied fighters to do a compare. The mission setup is:

Map: Crimea
Time: 12:00
Player aircraft fuel quantity: 30%
Player aircraft spawning altitude: 1000m
Enemy aircraft: I-185-M71 X 1 with 30% fuel
Enemy aircraft spawning altitude: 1000m

Testing procedures:

Immediately after spawning, I pulled back the throttle and enabled MW50 (or other WEP, if available) and then pushed forward to maximum 110%. The radiator was left to game default. I then did a shallow dive to about 500 meters till I passed the enemy aircraft. Then I started dogfighting with him. I did it mostly in the vertical plane. When I pulled up from the dive, I got the overheating message. It was merely 53 seconds into flight. If I continued dogfighting with full throttle, the engine would be cooked up within 3 minutes. (you can tell it from the oil blotch spilled onto the windscreen and the over-revolution engine sound.)

Then I did another test with 500 km/h level flight with the same power setup. (no enemy aircrafts) The engine was still damaged within 5 minutes.

Historically, MW50 can be used continuously for 10 mins. After that, the engine needs to rest for at least 5 mins before enabling MW50 boost again. But in 4.11, the engine will overheat about 53 seconds after enabling MW50. Well within 3 minutes, the engine will be cooked up.

I also tested P-51D, late-war Fw-190s and Ta-152-H1, Spits and Russian UFOs. I have the same conclusion with WhistlinggDeath:

The new not-so-fair overheating feature in 4.11 has totally shredded the already extremely unbalanced online play into pieces. Leave alone so many unrealistically super uber Western and Russian UFOs.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Wow, this place reminds me of that HL forum.

Caspar - I didnt say I wasnt going to try it. I said I would test it later and I am. Be cool dude and no need for the hate.

Other fliers - The critical difference in 4.11 is not level flight speed , it is time to engine overheat while doing an apex climb.

This is the way Boom and Zoom fighters were designed to work. Period. This is the method of the P51, FW, TA, Tempy, etc.... fully 40% of the planes in the game were designed for. You fly it in level flight and turn horizontally, you usually die. They are designed for the vertical fight, to boom down and zoom right back up using apex climbs that get close to stall speed often when they top out.

They dive and then zoom climb back up (say 2000m in one go from base attack back up close to stalling out).

I can faithfully replicate, putting the TA 152 into a dive with 4.11 and then climb to stall speed (it stalls at about 1870m of climb from whatever altitude you started the climb from, and at about 200 kph), by which time the engine is overheating, IN ONE PASS. Which means about 10 seconds. Apologies to Ice for not being clear about this before but was roughly testing earlier. If I keep this up, the engine is fried by pass 3 or 4. This is directly contrary to all the historical evidence of the late FWs and TAs which where specifically designed for zooming up to the clouds.

THIS STALL CLIMB HEATING IS THE CRITICAL DIFFERENCE OF 4.11 versus 4.10.1. In the older patch, I could get three to five apex climbs before overheat (say roughly 2 to 5 min). Now, in 4.11, I must drop pitch, exit and circle around cooling the engine. That makes my TA or FW or P51 damn near worthless. Why ? Cause I must circle to continually cool the engine and after one steep climb I am back in overheat territory. So I am now left with level flight turning combat and everyone knows how bad the P51 or TA sucks at that against a Spit 25lbs or La7.

As to the level flight data provided by others, still checking. I can see though that the TA has had a significant reduction in abilities (and about 30 kph in level flight speed) from 4.10.1 to 4.11.

Still testing.....

I do not appreciate more gifts being handed to the already underwhelming open pit Spit 25lbs/185/La7 princesses.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Whats so hard about that? Every other plane, that you might want to attack with B&Z has the same limits now! Even AI! And BTW: Turn&Burn is much more increasing the temps, as you usually get very slow in turnfights and thus the radiator is not cooling so well. In B&Z you have at least high speeds for at least half of your manuevers.

Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

[WhistlinggDeath]

Caspar, an energy fighter needs every single ounce of boost that it can get most of the time to get up above a spit 25lbs in online combat to secure the potential energy advantage and set up the attack. In a pitched fight between myself and a master spit 25lbs ace, I can in 4.10.1 secure the advantage often, but it takes a long time and very, very.... very careful maneuvering to finally get above them. In 4.11, this is impossible. The spit 25lbs can zoom climb several passes before overheat even becomes a problem while I get one pass and then must exit the field (and this is with both planes on say radiator auto or open and boost, full 110% power). The spit engine can simply out last way, way beyond me, which makes me have only one boom to hit them, and that is if I get to start the fight above them. If even steven co-altitude, I am toast, I must simply pass bye and stay straight, and out gas tank them.

I run a server on Xfire, called WD Fights. It is full real but we (our lab) get some really tough opponents (many from Russia). I would be happy, by switching back and forth to show you this in person (or the top ace of Team D) on my server. I will start with 4.10.1 and then go to 4.11. First I take TA and Team D guy takes spit 25lbs, and then reverse. Then I reset server to 4.11 and we redo the fights. You will notice a MASSIVE change immediately when it is your turn to fly the Ta. You can even tape it for Youtube if you want and bring other Team D members. PM me if interested.

This overheating stuff needs to be fixed and the FW/TA flight models restored to neutrality.

[JimmyBlonde]

4.11 is certainly a gift to opinionated, verbose whiners with nothing to back up their accusations.

[Luno13]

I'm not a good fighter, compared to most online players, but the newest radiator settings are...not that hard to deal with.

If everyone else can do it, even someone like me...well, maybe the problem lies with you?

I really hope you don't call those gentlemen. You will probably give them a heart attack.

[WhistlinggDeath]

You could be right. I might suck at online dogfighting. Many say that.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by EJGr.Ost_Caspar

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Whats so hard about that? Every other plane, that you might want to attack with B&Z has the same limits now! Even AI! And BTW: Turn&Burn is much more increasing the temps, as you usually get very slow in turnfights and thus the radiator is not cooling so well. In B&Z you have at least high speeds for at least half of your manuevers.

Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

Sorry, Caspar. But I have to disagree with you on this point. MW50 boost WAS supposed to be kept engaged for 10 mins (at most). But go test yourself, engines with MW50 enabled will be damaged well in 5 minutes.

Further more, the real-life test of G10 revealed that it can reach 6000m in 5.8 minutes, but I highly doubt whether you can accomplish this before you cook up the engine in game.

We are not complaining one type of aircraft is not as uber as other aircrafts. We are actually comparing the in-game aircrafts to their real-life counterparts. Isn't this what a flight sim is supposed to do?

To your differently asked question, one possible reason might be that your opponents are not good enough.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Still checking on the various data posted by Ice and others.

Interesting data:

Seems the Ta can be caught now in level flight by the Spit 25lbs when both have rad open and boost 110% on (TA levels at 530/540 kph, Spit 25lbs at 550 kph)

Sorry, what... did I just write that. LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

But so far, that is what I get in QMB on the Okinawa map.

Not sure yet, but seems the FW and TA dives are not as fast now (will check code maybe tomorrow).

P51, the monster of WWII that soared at 12000m escorting bombers and dove on opponents at 900 kph, can be caught in level flight by spit 25lbs and several other uber planes (P51 goes about 550/560 on 110% with boost, and Spit can now catch it, as can the well known 185 M-71 (two of these were made in WWII) at 580 kph).

Still testing.....

Who designed this patch anyway ?

[jermin]

Come on, TD. Do you really think an aircraft produced in 1939 (I-153P-M62) is able to give a late-war German piston fighter (Bf-109K-4 C3) a hard time in dogfight?