Patch 4.11 is a gift to open pit UFO fliers

[WhistlinggDeath]

I will check that objectively Ivan in a bit. You did not specify what alt you started the planes with. Your also not specifying a boom and zoom (giant loop) trajectory which overheats the engine MUCH quicker (but that is the manner in which these planes are to be flown). After one or two high climbs (say from 500m back up to 2500m), we are already on overheat. I think I and the other BnZ online fliers welcome proper engine management (at least I do) but why did you ruin the TA ? Across the board, the super planes (185, spit 25lbs, La7) just arent that affected but the BnZ planes are hit hard. It means we spend all our time cooling engines at 70 pitch before we engage again. For offline combat where any IQ 120 seven year old can defeat the AI things may be fairly even, but in online combat, there is now little balance between the BnZ planes which already had a tough time at even steven alt, and the uber planes.

Will check your figures tonight. Please correct the FW, and TA models and make the overheat apply equally to all. The spit 25lbs can go a long time (it seems) with nada, nothing bad happening.

[julien673]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

I will check that objectively Ivan in a bit. You did not specify what alt you started the planes with. Your also not specifying a boom and zoom (giant loop) trajectory which overheats the engine MUCH quicker (but that is the manner in which these planes are to be flown). After one or two high climbs (say from 500m back up to 2500m), we are already on overheat. I think I and the other BnZ online fliers welcome proper engine management (at least I do) but why did you ruin the TA ? Across the board, the super planes (185, spit 25lbs, La7) just arent that affected but the BnZ planes are hit hard. It means we spend all our time cooling engines at 70 pitch before we engage again. For offline combat where any IQ 120 seven year old can defeat the AI things may be fairly even, but in online combat, there is now little balance between the BnZ planes which already had a tough time at even steven alt, and the uber planes.

Will check your figures tonight. Please correct the FW, and TA models and make the overheat apply equally to all. The spit 25lbs can go a long time (it seems) with nada, nothing bad happening.

mdr

[IceFire]

Spitfire LF.IXe CW +25lbs
Crimea, Noon
1000 meters
Throttle 110%
Rads Auto
Overheat at 1:19
Engine inoperable at 2:29

I-185M-82A
Crimea, Noon
1000 meters
Rads Closed
Throttle 100% (no 110%)
Forzah (Boost) On
Overheat at 1:31
Engine inoperable at 2:51

Ta152H-1
Crimea, Noon
1000 meters
Throttle 110%
Rads Auto
MW50 (Boost) On
Overheat at 0:52
Engine damage at 6:50
Engine inoperable at 10:11

I'm seeing a bit of a different picture here. It was the Ta152 that went on and on and on while the Spitfire +25 died after only a couple of minutes. I should mention that this would constitute an extreme example. Full throttle with boost on and using default radiator settings. Twice that was auto and once that was closed. I imagine the I-185 might last a bit longer in this test if I opened the radiators.

EDIT: I also redid the test on the Spitfire (same model)... it was 3:42 seconds before the engine died completely.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Icefire, will check it objectively in a bit. I am not seeing this in combat though. In 4.10.1, the TA was something to be feared, now it is an overheating mess that is good for one pass, maybe two and then you must exit or engine smoke pours out.

Jumowhatever - Not the place to make your inaccurate attacks. If you know anything about me, it is that I ran a full real duel server for 18 months on HL and now run it on Xfire for IL2 1946 (4.10.1), LOMAC FC2 and ROF. Sometimes though bc I live on the West Coast and can only fly at night, there is little to no one in HL (usually about 20 folks), which means the only populated US server is RCAF (which is open pit and filled with 185 M-71s and Spit 25lbs), and the only populated closed pit server is Viril Duel server (Russia) (usually filled with La7s and 185 M-71s with a few Bf 109s thrown in). Check facts before posting hate.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I just see you complaining, while ignoring the results of others, which are totally contrary to your complaining. In fact, its quite clear, that you are doing something wrong. Maybe you are not even willing to do it right? Thus, as about me, you don't get heard.

[jermin]

Originally Posted by WhistlinggDeath

Your also not specifying a boom and zoom (giant loop) trajectory which overheats the engine MUCH quicker (but that is the manner in which these planes are to be flown).

I can't agree more!

Level flight testing is far from a proper method. You won't fly straight level forever in an air combat, will you? Try turning, climbing, zooming before you compare your test result with real-life data.

Besides, my testing result is similar to WhistlinggDeath's.

I've created a duel quick mission to test the overheating of German fighters and then Allied fighters to do a compare. The mission setup is:

Map: Crimea
Time: 12:00
Player aircraft fuel quantity: 30%
Player aircraft spawning altitude: 1000m
Enemy aircraft: I-185-M71 X 1 with 30% fuel
Enemy aircraft spawning altitude: 1000m

Testing procedures:

Immediately after spawning, I pulled back the throttle and enabled MW50 (or other WEP, if available) and then pushed forward to maximum 110%. The radiator was left to game default. I then did a shallow dive to about 500 meters till I passed the enemy aircraft. Then I started dogfighting with him. I did it mostly in the vertical plane. When I pulled up from the dive, I got the overheating message. It was merely 53 seconds into flight. If I continued dogfighting with full throttle, the engine would be cooked up within 3 minutes. (you can tell it from the oil blotch spilled onto the windscreen and the over-revolution engine sound.)

Then I did another test with 500 km/h level flight with the same power setup. (no enemy aircrafts) The engine was still damaged within 5 minutes.

Historically, MW50 can be used continuously for 10 mins. After that, the engine needs to rest for at least 5 mins before enabling MW50 boost again. But in 4.11, the engine will overheat about 53 seconds after enabling MW50. Well within 3 minutes, the engine will be cooked up.

I also tested P-51D, late-war Fw-190s and Ta-152-H1, Spits and Russian UFOs. I have the same conclusion with WhistlinggDeath:

The new not-so-fair overheating feature in 4.11 has totally shredded the already extremely unbalanced online play into pieces. Leave alone so many unrealistically super uber Western and Russian UFOs.

[WhistlinggDeath]

Wow, this place reminds me of that HL forum.

Caspar - I didnt say I wasnt going to try it. I said I would test it later and I am. Be cool dude and no need for the hate.

Other fliers - The critical difference in 4.11 is not level flight speed , it is time to engine overheat while doing an apex climb.

This is the way Boom and Zoom fighters were designed to work. Period. This is the method of the P51, FW, TA, Tempy, etc.... fully 40% of the planes in the game were designed for. You fly it in level flight and turn horizontally, you usually die. They are designed for the vertical fight, to boom down and zoom right back up using apex climbs that get close to stall speed often when they top out.

They dive and then zoom climb back up (say 2000m in one go from base attack back up close to stalling out).

I can faithfully replicate, putting the TA 152 into a dive with 4.11 and then climb to stall speed (it stalls at about 1870m of climb from whatever altitude you started the climb from, and at about 200 kph), by which time the engine is overheating, IN ONE PASS. Which means about 10 seconds. Apologies to Ice for not being clear about this before but was roughly testing earlier. If I keep this up, the engine is fried by pass 3 or 4. This is directly contrary to all the historical evidence of the late FWs and TAs which where specifically designed for zooming up to the clouds.

THIS STALL CLIMB HEATING IS THE CRITICAL DIFFERENCE OF 4.11 versus 4.10.1. In the older patch, I could get three to five apex climbs before overheat (say roughly 2 to 5 min). Now, in 4.11, I must drop pitch, exit and circle around cooling the engine. That makes my TA or FW or P51 damn near worthless. Why ? Cause I must circle to continually cool the engine and after one steep climb I am back in overheat territory. So I am now left with level flight turning combat and everyone knows how bad the P51 or TA sucks at that against a Spit 25lbs or La7.

As to the level flight data provided by others, still checking. I can see though that the TA has had a significant reduction in abilities (and about 30 kph in level flight speed) from 4.10.1 to 4.11.

Still testing.....

I do not appreciate more gifts being handed to the already underwhelming open pit Spit 25lbs/185/La7 princesses.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Just stop flying with WEP (resp. MW50), auto prop pitch and 110% trottle!!!
No plane/engine was designed to fly at maximum output for 10 minutes!
Whats so hard about that? Every other plane, that you might want to attack with B&Z has the same limits now! Even AI! And BTW: Turn&Burn is much more increasing the temps, as you usually get very slow in turnfights and thus the radiator is not cooling so well. In B&Z you have at least high speeds for at least half of your manuevers.

Differently asked: Why I don't have the problems to fight successfully online and offline?

[WhistlinggDeath]

Caspar, an energy fighter needs every single ounce of boost that it can get most of the time to get up above a spit 25lbs in online combat to secure the potential energy advantage and set up the attack. In a pitched fight between myself and a master spit 25lbs ace, I can in 4.10.1 secure the advantage often, but it takes a long time and very, very.... very careful maneuvering to finally get above them. In 4.11, this is impossible. The spit 25lbs can zoom climb several passes before overheat even becomes a problem while I get one pass and then must exit the field (and this is with both planes on say radiator auto or open and boost, full 110% power). The spit engine can simply out last way, way beyond me, which makes me have only one boom to hit them, and that is if I get to start the fight above them. If even steven co-altitude, I am toast, I must simply pass bye and stay straight, and out gas tank them.

I run a server on Xfire, called WD Fights. It is full real but we (our lab) get some really tough opponents (many from Russia). I would be happy, by switching back and forth to show you this in person (or the top ace of Team D) on my server. I will start with 4.10.1 and then go to 4.11. First I take TA and Team D guy takes spit 25lbs, and then reverse. Then I reset server to 4.11 and we redo the fights. You will notice a MASSIVE change immediately when it is your turn to fly the Ta. You can even tape it for Youtube if you want and bring other Team D members. PM me if interested.

This overheating stuff needs to be fixed and the FW/TA flight models restored to neutrality.

[JimmyBlonde]

4.11 is certainly a gift to opinionated, verbose whiners with nothing to back up their accusations.