CO-OPs again...

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by furbs

----------------------------------------------

One more time for old times sake...

THEN WHY IS THERE NO BLEEDIN CO-OPS BEING PLAYED? IL TELL YOU WHY, BECAUSE THE SYSTEM DOESNT WORK!!

Are you saying that somewhere back in development history they said "i know, you know that old style CO-OP that worked 100%...lets swap it for all sorts of cool stuff that nobody will use because you need to learn C+ to do anything...oh and lets not provide any manual or documents as well for at least 8 months"

You need to learn C+ to make CO-OPs? are you fecking metal??

THERE ARE NO PUBLIC CO-OPS BEING PLAYED BY ANYONE AFTER 8 MONTHS!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!

---rant over--- needed that.

Sorry, my English is not good enough and maybe you misunderstood my message you quoted.

C# knowledge is not needed to a user to create and fly coops.

You should distinguish between 2 systems: stock CloD and Banks' ones. The latest one works. It is not 100% ready yet and many players do not know about it yet plus launcher crashes = not many coops till now.

If you are trying to prove that stock CloD coop system does not work I do not understand your motivation. 1st, everyone knows this except for Luthier and BlackSix (e.g. my post http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...2&postcount=25 looks like you missed it). 2nd, proving this to us does not lead you to anything at all. "DO YOU UNDERSTAND, ITS NOT WORKING!!!" So what? Does it bring you any results or improvements? It gives you nothing. It would be much more fruitful to test and write about Banks' script that you do not do because you have no interest in coops. Otherwise you would have tested it already.

3rd, if you want to persuade Luthier and B6, it would be more efficient to do it here http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28341 or in bugreports/updates threads if you really want to be helpful because they do not read all threads.

Originally Posted by furbs

---rant over--- needed that.

No offence intended but if your own psychological benefits is the only reason for you posting here, isn't it called trolling and prohibited by forum rules? What do your posts bring to the community table? Any new help, solutions, knowledge? Can you handle your frustration without sharing it on the forums and instead bring in something positive emotionally helping others who are more frustrated than you are (there are some girls lurking around btw)? Isn't that what men do or is it you and 2-3 other people here who every day needs a hug more than others? We can give you a hug and share your pain, you are welcome. The system is not working, CloD is not Il-2, Softclub is not MG, Luthier is not Oleg, you can not expect German quality from a Russian company unless it is run by a soviet-school aviation engineer obsessed with perfectionism. Hope it helps

[JG52Krupi]

To be fair Furbs you are starting to troll on this Co-op thread, everyone here agrees that we need a co-op and until we get one Banks and others have apparently put a lot of time and effort into bringing us an unofficial version.

I have yet to try it but will give it a go this weekend, in fact Farber invited me to join a co-op someone was running the other day but I was too busy .

Thanks for everyone that made the co-op possible hopefully at some point it will be official implemented.

[Nitrous]

Banks=Star.

[furbs]

Originally Posted by Ataros

No offence intended but if your own psychological benefits is the only reason for you posting here, isn't it called trolling and prohibited by forum rules? What do your posts bring to the community table? Any new help, solutions, knowledge? Can you handle your frustration without sharing it on the forums and instead bring in something positive emotionally helping others who are more frustrated than you are (there are some girls lurking around btw)? Isn't that what men do or is it you and 2-3 other people here who every day needs a hug more than others? We can give you a hug and share your pain, you are welcome. The system is not working, CloD is not Il-2, Softclub is not MG, Luthier is not Oleg, you can not expect German quality from a Russian company unless it is run by a soviet-school aviation engineer obsessed with perfectionism. Hope it helps

No i dont post here for any psychological benefit, my GF might agree with you and i get all the hugs from her i need, though thanks for the offer cheers.
Im just annoyed at something that would help CLOD so much is not working. maybe iam expecting to much?

Originally Posted by furbs

No i dont post here for any psychological benefit, my GF might agree with you and i get all the hugs from her i need, though thanks for the offer cheers.
Im just annoyed at something that would help CLOD so much is not working. maybe iam expecting to much?

For things to work in CLOD you have to wait for a few years, remember nothing worked in the original IL2 for at least 3 years.......

[Blackdog_kt]

Here we go again with the sweeping generalizations.

The truth is, some things worked in IL2 from the start and some were implemented at a later date by the community.

It's the same thing with CoD, but due to the increased amount of features there's an increased amount of bug fixing to do as well.

It's the same with other sims too, some things take time. RoF anyone? It took 18 months or so before it really took off and that's a much more limited engine in terms of how much objects it can handle and what you can do for dynamic mission environments. Heck, last time i checked it when it went free to play, they were revamping the visibility range to be more than a couple of kilometers because up till that point performance didn't allow it and thus, people couldn't really boom and zoom because they couldn't see their targets. SLI/Xfire took quite a while to implement as well, shimmering ground textures at long range also, etc, etc. Oh, and all guns had the same ballistic characteristics (don't know if they changed that). Why? Because a small company tried to make a complex game, because big companies don't make games for this genre.

It's easy to think we are the only ones being slighted here in CoD land, when in fact the way things go is pretty straightforward in software development: the amount of bugs is proportional to the complexity of features and inversely proportional to the amount of people and money you have to throw at the problem.

It's also easy to look back on a 10 year old series that has been tweaked and modded to kingdom come and expect that kind of quality standard as a given, completely forgetting that it took 10 years to reach that stage.

On a side note, how many were there for the very first release of IL2 back in 2001?Does anyone remember that none of the LW planes had mine-shells?

Or that the sim was so hard on the CPU that to cut down on DM and ballistics calculations only the tracers were accounted for, giving an advantage to the Russian machine guns with their higher tracer frequency?

Or that we only had canned campaigns and you couldn't progress until you got the "mission accomplished" message because there wasn't a difficulty option to set the "no instant success" parameter?

Or that in all campaign missions with level bombers, your flight of, let's say, 111s would get a task to bomb a truck convoy yet the flight altitude was set at 5km, you couldn't see the targets due to the rendering limitations, the AI leader wouldn't aim bombs for you and then they would all start dive bombing from 5km, release at 3km or so and score direct hits and you would go all "wtf? how is that possible in a realistic scenario?"

Or that, due to the fact it was designed as a low-altitude, ground pounding sim, there was no high altitude atmosphere model to speak of, giving all sorts of FM problems?

Or that without a 3rd party tool (Hyperlobby), its multiplayer would be dead in the water?

Do you really want me to continue? A lot, most in fact, of those things were corrected, some by the developers and some by the community, but it took three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly

I remember very well. Things were not all rosy back then either, the only thing that's rosy is your nostalgic glasses people.

When the population of this forum learns to present opinions and not strawmen designed simply for the purpose of winning points in a forum argument, maybe we'll get somewhere.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly

Bingo

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

Here we go again with the sweeping generalizations.

The truth is, some things worked in IL2 from the start and some were implemented at a later date by the community.

It's the same thing with CoD, but due to the increased amount of features there's an increased amount of bug fixing to do as well.

It's the same with other sims too, some things take time. RoF anyone? It took 18 months or so before it really took off and that's a much more limited engine in terms of how much objects it can handle and what you can do for dynamic mission environments. Heck, last time i checked it when it went free to play, they were revamping the visibility range to be more than a couple of kilometers because up till that point performance didn't allow it and thus, people couldn't really boom and zoom because they couldn't see their targets. SLI/Xfire took quite a while to implement as well, shimmering ground textures at long range also, etc, etc. Oh, and all guns had the same ballistic characteristics (don't know if they changed that). Why? Because a small company tried to make a complex game, because big companies don't make games for this genre.

It's easy to think we are the only ones being slighted here in CoD land, when in fact the way things go is pretty straightforward in software development: the amount of bugs is proportional to the complexity of features and inversely proportional to the amount of people and money you have to throw at the problem.

It's also easy to look back on a 10 year old series that has been tweaked and modded to kingdom come and expect that kind of quality standard as a given, completely forgetting that it took 10 years to reach that stage.

On a side note, how many were there for the very first release of IL2 back in 2001?Does anyone remember that none of the LW planes had mine-shells?

Or that the sim was so hard on the CPU that to cut down on DM and ballistics calculations only the tracers were accounted for, giving an advantage to the Russian machine guns with their higher tracer frequency?

Or that we only had canned campaigns and you couldn't progress until you got the "mission accomplished" message because there wasn't a difficulty option to set the "no instant success" parameter?

Or that in all campaign missions with level bombers, your flight of, let's say, 111s would get a task to bomb a truck convoy yet the flight altitude was set at 5km, you couldn't see the targets due to the rendering limitations, the AI leader wouldn't aim bombs for you and then they would all start dive bombing from 5km, release at 3km or so and score direct hits and you would go all "wtf? how is that possible in a realistic scenario?"

Or that, due to the fact it was designed as a low-altitude, ground pounding sim, there was no high altitude atmosphere model to speak of, giving all sorts of FM problems?

Or that without a 3rd party tool (Hyperlobby), its multiplayer would be dead in the water?

Do you really want me to continue? A lot, most in fact, of those things were corrected, some by the developers and some by the community, but it took three things:
1) time
2) a positive attitude
3) rolling up one's sleeves and doing something about it, instead of just crying "gimme" constantly

I remember very well. Things were not all rosy back then either, the only thing that's rosy is your nostalgic glasses people.

When the population of this forum learns to present opinions and not strawmen designed simply for the purpose of winning points in a forum argument, maybe we'll get somewhere.

Excellent Post

[Madfish]

Now that so many moderators (counted at least 2) take part in the debate what about this as a first step in the right direction:

Originally Posted by Madfish

[...]
My suggestion:

• developers could provide a sticky detailing their view on how the co-op's should be done in the game now and providing some great code snippets and links to documentation to help the community using the new style co-op's
• developers / moderators could create a sub-forum under the "CoD Multiplayer" or "FMB, Mission & Campaign builder Discussions" board called "Co-Op".
• moderators could maintain a sticky post providing a list with co-op maps, documentation etc.
• regulars could describe specific scenarios and tell about how they would envision the co-op to work, eventually this can be solved already and if not it could be seen and discussed as a suggestion eventually
• experts in coding could provide their code snippets
• expert map makers could post tutorials on which code snips they used and how. videos or pictured and detailed posts would be easy to understand.
• everyone could visit the forum and either get into mapping or try and play the co-op missions provided by the community.

[...]

[Force10]

Blackdog has a good memory of the bugs in the original IL-2 and I don't dispute that. For me, this is the difference between the 2:

Average critic score for launch version IL-2 2001: 9.2 (editors choice)

Average critic score for COD: 6.0

There are showstopper bugs and their are annoying bugs that you can still enjoy a sim with. It is 8 months later and I still don't have a singleplayer experience I can enjoy. I don't think that was really the case with the oirginal IL-2. Both sims were released with ground breaking stuff, it's just that COD can't be enjoyed by an offline player yet.