Any plans to finally get a re-crypting?

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by FC99

If you know how CRT works than why you are asking the first question?

One of us obviously just doesn't know what he's talking about
Consequently, it just doesn't make sense to go on discussing about it.
TD doesn't plan to apply any additional encryption, that's fine, halleluja, happy holidays and bottoms up!

Best regards - Mike

[FC99]

Originally Posted by CWMV

I know, but without the use of smiles its impossible to tell for certain, lol!
I'd find it hard to believe that anyone still held that sort of assinine, backward view anymore.

Do you want the game to be encrypted? I guess not, so what is the problem? If you want to believe that nobody cheats , that's fine with me. But in the end this doesn't change the fact that cheating in hacked game is much easier than in an encrypted game. I demonstrated that to WarClouds server owner Sparx way back in Aug 28, 2007 to be precise.

And history of Il2 tells us that some people and squads did whatever they could to cheat when cheating was much harder than now. You want me to believe that all of them now turned into saints? C'mon, I'm not that naive.

Bottom line is,play whatever you want to play, mod whatever you want to mod and cheat if you want, I don't care. But I would like to know why some people want to maintain the illusion that cheating doesn't exist? That kind of attitude only helps cheaters so it is reasonable to believe that cheaters have the strongest motive to maintain that illusion, isn't it?

[Avimimus]

I'd mainly be worried about the creation of a new schism (as happened in the old AAA days).

As an offliner who likes to customise installs slightly, I'd really appreciate a solution which doesn't force me to run two installs (and prevents me from combining the best features of both).

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by FC99

cheating in hacked game is much easier than in an encrypted game. I demonstrated that to WarClouds server owner Sparx way back in Aug 28, 2007 to be precise.

Warclouds is a prominent example of crt=0 mod enabled servers. Nobody ever said that it would be hard to "cheat" (whatever you call "cheating") on such kind of servers.
Join me on a crt=2 server, demonstrate the vulnerability there and I'll be your captivated observer. I'd owe you a beer even if you'd succeed on a crt=1 server.

Originally Posted by FC99

I would like to know why some people want to maintain the illusion that cheating doesn't exist?

Tell us who did.
Quite opposite I tell you again that unless the communication between server and client gets encrypted in an effective way, you won't get rid of users of the famous online "Radar" cheat, no matter what encryption you apply to the game itself.

Originally Posted by FC99

it is reasonable to believe that cheaters have the strongest motive to maintain that illusion

I don't get what you mean. Please express yourself clearly.

Best regards - Mike

[jermin]

In my opinion, the problem is more than cheating. It's more of the general feeling and quality control of the game. Graphics comes in a second place for a flight sim in my opinion (I think most hardcore IL2 fans agree with me on this).

The modded IL2 can never gave me the feeling of original IL2. If you have flown online in The Greater Green server back in 2005 and spits and 109s since its birth, you'll understand what I mean. As for me, the air combat itself, tactics and teamwork attract me more than graphics.

Second, what TD has said before, mods are made by different modders with different point of view on flight simulation and limited understanding of the game structure under different working environments (monitor color accuracy for example). In a word, the congregated game lacks consistency.

For this reason, I have confidence in the future of IL2 managed by TD.

Finally, I suggest with a win-win solution for the re-crypting of IL2. Mod community can still mod 4.101 (or 4.11) as they like. But starting from 4.12, IL2 will be encrypted to save the dying online community.

[rga]

Originally Posted by jermin

In my opinion, the problem is more than cheating. It's more of the general feeling and quality control of the game. Graphics comes in a second place for a flight sim in my opinion (I think most hardcore IL2 fans agree with me on this).

The modded IL2 can never gave me the feeling of original IL2. If you have flown online in The Greater Green server back in 2005 and spits and 109s since its birth, you'll understand what I mean. As for me, the air combat itself, tactics and teamwork attract me more than graphics.

Second, what TD has said before, mods are made by different modders with different point of view on flight simulation and limited understanding of the game structure under different working environments (monitor color accuracy for example). In a word, the congregated game lacks consistency.

For this reason, I have confidence in the future of IL2 managed by TD.

Finally, I suggest with a win-win solution for the re-crypting of IL2. Mod community can still mod 4.101 (or 4.11) as they like. But starting from 4.12, IL2 will be encrypted to save the dying online community.

Noone is forced to use mods. They choose it. If mods do not give you the awsome feeling of the "original" IL2, don't use them. Less people are playing online (which is quite far from the truth AFAIK) not because mods make them depressive and commit suicide, but because either 1. they chose to fly modded or 2. they play some newer games with more graphic candy (I personally spend more time to play Silent Hunter 4 than IL-2). What could bring them back is new features, such as the awsome works TD is doing now, and not re-crypting. Imagine that: your cat is playing outside and you cannot call it back by closing the cage's door

IMHO, re-crypting the game will do only harm. It forces modders to (illegally) copy TD's works and implement them into their mods. Some works are never smoothly implemented (that's the reason I sometimes play vanilla, since modders had hard time trying to make radio navigation works). Face it: TD will have their hard works copied (or stolen, I dislike this word), and players cannot fly MiG-15 while enjoying the new (hopefully revoluntionary) AI. No, if you ask me, it's a lose-lose situation.

[Maori]

Originally Posted by rga

No, if you ask me, it's a lose-lose situation.

Exactly. To divide online and offline communities (where offline communities use mods on top of stock game) against each other is not good for IL2.

I am happy to hear there is no plans for encryption. I am both online and offline player and appreciate whataver is done to enrich this game. Encryption only impoverishes the game. Customization is of great value. As onliner, cheaters are not such big concern to me. Just arrange online games with serious squadrons. and crt=2 is more than enough currently.

So, because it is allegedly easier to cheat on an unencrypted game it means encryption is good? no.

It is easier for certain types of social problems to prosper in democratic countries than in totalitarian ones... does it mean dictatorships are better for us citizens to live in? obviously not. Same goes for cheaters and encryption.

online encryption-ortodoxists live more by fear than by reasons. IL2 as it has been up to now (after being unencrypted and thus customizable) is better than ever. Keep it that way, please, also for DM and FM. Otherwise how do we add completely new planes that require completely new FMs and DMs like the ones made by -for instance- Loku, CsoCso and Japancat (all 3 absolute lovers of this game)?

I do have full faith on TD work too, but unencrypted game is the way to go.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Avimimus

As an offliner who likes to customise installs slightly, I'd really appreciate a solution which doesn't force me to run two installs (and prevents me from combining the best features of both).

It has been said few times in this thread already that there are no plans for re-encrypting the game.

Originally Posted by Storebror

Join me on a crt=2 server, demonstrate the vulnerability there and I'll be your captivated observer. I'd owe you a beer even if you'd succeed on a crt=1 server.

Well, I'll have to agree with you now, one of us doesn't know much about CRT.

Quite opposite I tell you again that unless the communication between server and client gets encrypted in an effective way, you won't get rid of users of the famous online "Radar" cheat, no matter what encryption you apply to the game itself.

Encrypted or not there is always a way for cheating but it is easier to cheat when one important layer of code integrity protection is removed. Do you really believe that CRT can't be bypassed?

I don't get what you mean. Please express yourself clearly.

Let's see if this will work. Imagine that you have two houses,one with lock and one without. Who will tell you that both houses are equally safe? Maybe those who are blind and don't see the difference, maybe those who don't understand the purpose and function of the lock, maybe jokers ? But from all of them thieves have biggest interest in spreading the false information because their gain is the biggest.

Same analogy applies to the game too.

Originally Posted by rga

Noone is forced to use mods. They choose it. If mods do not give you the awsome feeling of the "original" IL2, don't use them.

Spot on, people have to make decision and play what is most fun for them. Who says that they have to play Il2 at all.

IMHO, re-crypting the game will do only harm. It forces modders to (illegally) copy TD's works and implement them into their mods.

They are not forced to do that.They choose it and that's what they do no matter if game is re-encrypted or not.

Originally Posted by Maori

So, because it is allegedly easier to cheat on an unencrypted game it means encryption is good? no.

I do have full faith on TD work too, but unencrypted game is the way to go.

You are not exactly right here, encryption and modding doesn't exclude each other. Preventing cheating is only small part of what encryption does. In Il2 problem with modding is that game was not designed to support it and that's where most of the problems arise.

FC

[Storebror]

Originally Posted by FC99

Well, I'll have to agree with you now, one of us doesn't know much about CRT.

Sweet, we're turning in circles.
My offer stays valid: Show me how you cheat with your modded game on a crt=1 or crt=2 server and I'll come back here to tell the world you're right.
No need to go on arguing FC, just show it.

Until then, my word stays: If you want to play online and assure that you're not sorrounded by others using mods (i.e. you prefer "vanilla" unmodded IL-2), join crt=2 servers only.

Best regards - Mike

[TheGrunch]

Storebror, I think cheaters unfortunately have more ingenuity than you think. From what I understand, the most widely complained-about cheats nowadays seem to be memory hacks. CRT probably just checks the files in the game folder to make sure they are the same. As an example, do you think CRT can detect someone using San's FOV Changer? It's not a cheat, but it's the same principle. Anyway, why the hell would FC tell you how to cheat on a public forum? It's not information that needs spreading around.