ATAG's 1st Bomber Night this Weekend

[5./JG27.Farber]

That test is invalid if you were flying a red spit. YOUR aircraft will spot things, sometimes even beyond visable range.

Originally Posted by klem

ok

Spent two hours in there tonight. Its pretty well hopeless with small numbers and without radar unless we get lucky. Some of our guys found 2 110s late on but couldn't catch them.

Heheh that was me and Klein! I shot up one of your guys in a Hurricane and then we skedaddled. That was fun, it was interesting to be dive bombing a factory and shooting an Indianer of your leads tail at the same time.... Real question is did I hit the factory?

[IvanK]

Originally Posted by 5./JG27.Farber

That test is invalid if you were flying a red spit. YOUR aircraft will spot things, sometimes even beyond visable range.





Heheh that was me and Klein! I shot up one of your guys in a Hurricane and then we skedaddled. That was fun, it was interesting to be dive bombing a factory and shooting an Indianer of your leads tail at the same time.... Real question is did I hit the factory?

Invalid flying a Red spit ... I am not going to get info from a Red Radar in Blue aeroplane.
As to "My" aeroplane being able to see things outside visible range ... well thats an invalid comment as well ... What is considered a suitable range then ? What evidence is their thats its "me" seeing the HEIII's ?

I will retest putting the HEIII's double the range from Dungeness and me over London.

[IvanK]

Re did the mission. Targets Start over St Omer Airfield at 2000m.
Red Fighter starts over Biggin Hill.

I got the text and audio message about 4 mins into the mission.
Bombers reported in N6, with Red spitfire (Me) heading away on North Westerly heading
Measured separations where.

Red Fighter to Blue Target 100km
Blue target to Radar range at "Detection" 40km



I will dig out some actual CH radar data I think I have. This will give some typical range capabilities of CH radar.... which wasn't a whole lot compared with modern day microwave radars.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Interesting IvanK.

We scattered about 100 radar or mixed type including wotans on the Steppe map and could not make them pick anything up. I wonder if there is a min and max range where they function and min max altitude they detect. And even a percentile of detection!?

What about repeating the test with no radar?

Is there a way to monitor enemy comms? That would be interesting.

Did you do this on an online map... Server style?

[csThor]

Wotan systems were not radars, they were devices for blind bombing (Wotan 1 = X-Verfahren, Wotan 2 = Y-Verfahren). No wonder they didn't pick up aircraft.

[IvanK]

Historically a CH radar required both types of the Radar units seen in game. RADAR 1 represents the 4 Transmission (Tx) towers. Radar 2 represents a single Reciever (Rx) tower. In the real installation each TX tower had its own Rx tower. Ideally in game Radar 2 should be a group of 4 towers to match the 4 Tx towers that are contained in Radar 1.

I dont know how its coded in game as the whether you need to actually place both Rx and Tx towers for a COD radar to become active. I just did it this way to be graphically correct.
Both Tx towers and Rx towers should have the same alignment.

In addition CH stations were very directional. The coverage being at right angles to the array.
Side lobes were pretty big so it wasn't a raygun by any means but still very directional ... hence the need for the number of CH stations in the chain. This insured overlap with few if any gaps. This directionality also being the reason that CH couldn't see inland ... the area behind the Towers being blind. Once the targets crossed the coast CH radar was useless ... the plots then only possible from Observer corps observations.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Very interesting, was there not also high chain home and low chain home for high and low altitudes? Have you found this can be implemented?

So to make it work we need 4Tx Radar 1 and 4Rx radar 2 with the same orientation. When you spawn in a radar tower I assume its orientation is 0. Its pointing longways up and down. So to change it to detect East we just spin it 90. I thought they detected from their widest part not from the side? Do they have to be linked in anyway or need any other special requirements? Is the orientation the direction they will detect?

Could Wotan be used to detect ships, Im sure I have read this somewhere? Or am I confusing this with late war German radar, something I know nothing about.

[klem]

Originally Posted by IvanK

.........................
In addition CH stations were very directional. The coverage being at right angles to the array.
...............This directionality also being the reason that CH couldn't see inland ... the area behind the Towers being blind. Once the targets crossed the coast CH radar was useless ... the plots then only possible from Observer corps observations.

And for a little entertainment for those that don't know the story...

The Transmitters had an electronic screen at their rear, part of the assembly. It was, I believe, a mesh tuned to the opposite polarity of the transmitted signal so that no effective transmission was made to the rear, or at least very little. Anyway the screen failed one day in September 1939 three days after the declaration of war. When an unexpected aircraft was detected approaching the Thames from the East/NE Hurricanes of 56 Squadron were scrambled to intercept. Because of the failed screen these aircraft created a 'reflection' on the observers scopes and were interpreted as more enemy aircraft. More aircraft were sent up to meet the threat. Then more .... In the ensuing confusion a section of three 74 Squadron Spitfires shot down two of 56 Squadron's Hurricanes, causing the first RAF death in action of the war and what later came to be known to us all as "friendly fire". Remember this was before anyone had seen any fighter action let alone what a 109 might really look like in the sky. Sailor Malan, the Flight Leader of the six 74 Sqdn Spitfires claimed he called to his subsection of three that the aircraft were friendly and to break off but the subsection never heard the call and one of them was still saying 60 years later that there wasn't a call.

Anyway, this became known as "The Battle of Barking Creek".

It did have one positive outcome, the RAF looked long and hard at its procedures, everyone trained a lot more and were ready when it really mattered.