Kinect?

[engadin]

Originally Posted by MD_Titus

clickable pit working with a kinect would be an interesting idea. maybe have some kind of wearable thumb button to "hold" a lever.

That's it! A perfect way to forget the good ol' keyboard times. Just move your hand, kinect detects it, you see your virtual hand moving towards a button on the cockpit panel and click it. And even more, you could move the virtual stick and throttle by means of kinect. But, on the other hand, it would be, I am afraid, a lot more of effort involved in keeping both hands 'on the air' - moving the virtual controls - than when holding the 'real' ones.

On a second thought, there is always the chance to make two mock stick and throttle - wood or whatever - and fix them in the same place they hold in the virtual cockpit. Next step would be to fine tune kinect so it could recognize our hands on both controls, so when holding the 'real' controls we can see our ''virtual' hands holding the 'virtual' ones. Hey! there is a market niche for those of you, handymans, for producing the mock controls matching exactly in the real world with the position in the virtual space hold by the virtual ones, so that Kinect handles them when you actuate the real ones.

It's sad, nevertheless, to realize that those of us FFB addicts should have to say bye, bye to it then, IMHO. Can't have the best of both worlds!

And you add this to the Sony HMZ-T1 VR Headset with a head tracker like Track IR 5 - http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28031 -, sky is the limit!.

Dreaming is free, anyway.

Engadin.

[sorak]

Kinect could obviously do head tracking as well...

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by engadin

That's it! A perfect way to forget the good ol' keyboard times. Just move your hand, kinect detects it, you see your virtual hand moving towards a button on the cockpit panel and click it. And even more, you could move the virtual stick and throttle by means of kinect. But, on the other hand, it would be, I am afraid, a lot more of effort involved in keeping both hands 'on the air' - moving the virtual controls - than when holding the 'real' ones.

On a second thought, there is always the chance to make two mock stick and throttle - wood or whatever - and fix them in the same place they hold in the virtual cockpit. Next step would be to fine tune kinect so it could recognize our hands on both controls, so when holding the 'real' controls we can see our ''virtual' hands holding the 'virtual' ones. Hey! there is a market niche for those of you, handymans, for producing the mock controls mating exactly in the real world with the position in the virtual space hold by the virtual ones, so that Kinect handles them when you actuate the real ones.

It's sad, nevertheless, to realize that those of us FFB addicts should have to say bye, bye to it then, IMHO. Can't have the best of both worlds!

And you add this to the Sony HMZ-T1 VR Headset with a head tracker like Track IR 5 - http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28031 -, sky is the limit!.

Dreaming is free, anyway.

Engadin.

Oh no, keep hotas controls in there for both ergonomic reasons and immersion, but having panel controls, fuel pumps etc assignable to either a keypress or kinect interaction would be kinda cool. Literally flicki g the switches.

[Rattlehead]

I'm not sure Kinect would big a big seller with the simulation crowd, assuming a developer even implements it into a game.
Track IR is more than adequate for motion sensing gaming fun.

The Kinect, despite selling well, is struggling to find a core audience of hardcore gamers even on consoles, where they have games specifically designed for it.
It remains to be seen if the Kinect can break out of the novelty market it find itself in.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Rattlehead

I'm not sure Kinect would big a big seller with the simulation crowd, assuming a developer even implements it into a game.
Track IR is more than adequate for motion sensing gaming fun.

The Kinect, despite selling well, is struggling to find a core audience of hardcore gamers even on consoles, where they have games specifically designed for it.
It remains to be seen if the Kinect can break out of the novelty market it find itself in.

It can and will. Especially for real world applications like gesture control in the regular living environment. Do you still use real switches for the light in your room e.g.? I replaced some with sensors but it's still far from complete gesture controls. E.g. you could point and move spotlights, dim and change colors and much more.

It just takes a bit of time. Games are quick to make but a real world item for daily use needs to undergo a more thorough development.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by engadin

That's it! A perfect way to forget the good ol' keyboard times. Just move your hand, kinect detects it, you see your virtual hand moving towards a button on the cockpit panel and click it. And even more, you could move the virtual stick and throttle by means of kinect. But, on the other hand, it would be, I am afraid, a lot more of effort involved in keeping both hands 'on the air' - moving the virtual controls - than when holding the 'real' ones.

On a second thought, there is always the chance to make two mock stick and throttle - wood or whatever - and fix them in the same place they hold in the virtual cockpit. Next step would be to fine tune kinect so it could recognize our hands on both controls, so when holding the 'real' controls we can see our ''virtual' hands holding the 'virtual' ones. Hey! there is a market niche for those of you, handymans, for producing the mock controls matching exactly in the real world with the position in the virtual space hold by the virtual ones, so that Kinect handles them when you actuate the real ones.

It's sad, nevertheless, to realize that those of us FFB addicts should have to say bye, bye to it then, IMHO. Can't have the best of both worlds!

And you add this to the Sony HMZ-T1 VR Headset with a head tracker like Track IR 5 - http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=28031 -, sky is the limit!.

Dreaming is free, anyway.

Engadin.

Sorry to burst your bubble but how many times exactly did you look at your buttons and switches in your car to e.g. use your signal lights, turn on the lights, the horn, switch gears or turn up the volume? I never do that, ever.

It might seem like a solution at first but it's definately not working. I know this because I tried it already (with HMD) in the past and it was a pain in the butt.

I have a few ideas and tried a couple of things but what I ended up with was completely disconnected from real buttons and haptic controls in locations like the virtual ones in game.

[engadin]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Sorry to burst your bubble but how many times exactly did you look at your buttons and switches in your car to e.g. use your signal lights, turn on the lights, the horn, switch gears or turn up the volume? I never do that, ever.

It might seem like a solution at first but it's definately not working. I know this because I tried it already (with HMD) in the past and it was a pain in the butt.

I have a few ideas and tried a couple of things but what I ended up with was completely disconnected from real buttons and haptic controls in locations like the virtual ones in game.

Many good ideas looked like bubbles at the first stages of developement. Sure its hard to get it working with a general purpose app for Kinect, but who knows with specifically designed ones?. I wouldn't even dare to dream of a device such as the present TIR5 when flying EAW in the early years, decades ago or so ;o), definitely. If you want/need to fly with the CEM enabled, to be able to activate/deactivate buttons with Kinect or whichever other of the like on the cockpit panel would undoubtely add to inmersion.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by engadin

Many good ideas looked like bubbles at the first stages of developement. Sure its hard to get it working with a general purpose app for Kinect, but who knows with specifically designed ones?. I wouldn't even dare to dream of a device such as the present TIR5 when flying EAW in the early years, decades ago or so ;o), definitely. If you want/need to fly with the CEM enabled, to be able to activate/deactivate buttons with Kinect or whichever other of the like on the cockpit panel would undoubtely add to inmersion.

The problem I described is that, while immersive, you don't want to be looking around what button you trigger all the time, where it is and where your virtual hand is. That's not immersive. I experienced it, tried it, and while it's fun for a short time it's really just a hazzle after a while and messes with your brain. Even tiny lags or calibration errors mess with you.

I'm not saying it's not doable - I'm saying that it's only working in very specific cases (see post above) or in a different setup you describe.

[MACADEMIC]

Originally Posted by Madfish

I have a few ideas and tried a couple of things but what I ended up with was completely disconnected from real buttons and haptic controls in locations like the virtual ones in game.

I wonder if Kinect could be made to work with a cockpit in this way that you would have the real cockpit environment, i.e. correct dimensions, controls, levers etc. All these things would also be in the correct position, and would be working, i.e. would not need to rely on Kinect for them to work, but Kinect would detect your hands/arms position and show you these through an the HMD you're wearing.

So the cockpit would not need to have any (working) instruments in it, and not need to look real, it would be only there for functionality, haptic feedback and dimensional feel. All the visuals would be purely virtual.

Of course, this would require Kinect to be able to track arm/hands/finger(?) positions precisely enough, and the visual generator to show positions and movements in (experienced) real time. Plus, a lightweight high quality HMD with 1:1 headtracking (again, in experienced realtime).

Would anyone with experience with Kinect and HMDs care to comment?

MAC

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

I wonder if Kinect could be made to work with a cockpit in this way that you would have the real cockpit environment, i.e. correct dimensions, controls, levers etc. All these things would also be in the correct position, and would be working, i.e. would not need to rely on Kinect for them to work, but Kinect would detect your hands/arms position and show you these through an the HMD you're wearing.

So the cockpit would not need to have any (working) instruments in it, and not need to look real, it would be only there for functionality, haptic feedback and dimensional feel. All the visuals would be purely virtual.

Of course, this would require Kinect to be able to track arm/hands/finger(?) positions precisely enough, and the visual generator to show positions and movements in (experienced) real time. Plus, a lightweight high quality HMD with 1:1 headtracking (again, in experienced realtime).

Would anyone with experience with Kinect and HMDs care to comment?

MAC

That'd work - but do consider that you'd still need a completely adjustable framework or a huge number of pits to have this effect and be able to fly all the different planes due to different measurements and designs.
While it may be possible for some it definately out of the question for the average flyer. You'd literally need a half a house to fly all the planes from IL-2 1946 e.g. and then add all the oldtimers from RoF and modern jets and you get the idea why it'd be hard.
If you fly one fav sim for years though it might be worth thinking about it.

By the way, you'd need 2 kinect to be able to fully detect everything. It's under research and we'll see device that either have the full functionality in a few years for sure.
Check the microsoft research on this. They have a lot coming for the age "after" touch.
Few ideas here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0KM8lzRCoQ

just follow the trail.

Right now I'd say it's doable but really hard work. I'd wait until kinect is refined or the next generation pops.