Suddenly Spit IIa on all the servers?

[Ze-Jamz]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I really enjoy watching the 109 whiners in their ever persistent quest to re-write history.

Cry me a freaking river.

This nonsense has been going on since the dawn of flight simulation. A sub set of German aircraft fanboys pushing their agenda and history be damned.

I laugh in your general direction.

Couple of words for you to ponder on FlyBoy... Dora n TA (Il2), no allied pilots moaned then either no?.. please

Lol..you obviously cant remember the 109 then when it first came to Il2?... how about the La or Yak then again the 25lb Spit..or like i say the TA..

Dude get of that pedistool.. this is about balance...Its not about wanting to change history, its also about having the FM's as close to RL as possible

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Ze-Jamz

Couple of words for you to ponder on FlyBoy... Dora n TA (Il2), no allied pilots moaned then either no?.. please

Lol..you obviously cant remember the 109 then when it first came to Il2?... how about the La or Yak then again the 25lb Spit..or like i say the TA..

Dude get of that pedistool.. this is about balance...Its not about wanting to change history, its also about having the FM's as close to RL as possible

Spot on.

Its the Battle of Britain it is the closest the 109 will get to outperforming the spit, from here on its basically downhill and your already calling us luftwhiners .

[bw_wolverine]

I think people need to stop bringing 'RL' into this.

This argument seems to be obviously completely about multiplayer game balance and not about which plane has what stats.

What happens when they give us a later model 109 that outperforms the Mk IIa? Or something else that does? Will that plane be left off of servers as well?

Unless the top two planes for both sides are completely equally matched in every way, there's no end to this.

Anyway, I like flying the Ia anyway. More interesting than setting RPM and leaving it. I just wish they'd put in the little mid point in the prop pitch control that Spitfire pilots found, turning it into a variable by effect. That's quite useful.

[pupo162]

yep. a simple whine on how mission builders were buiding THEIR missions as turned into a is 109 porked or not.

[ATAG_Bliss]

The reason I decided to try the spitIIa was in the same lines of thinking the FM had been tweaked for this patch. And the FM has been slightly tweaked.

As someone that plays 46, the 1st thing I do in a 109 is climb, climb, climb, and then climb some more before I even thinking about going to enemy territory. If not, I think we can all agree, unless you are a scissor master in the G-2, that any spit, yak, La5, and even some hurri's will eat you for lunch.

Now I've flown the last 2 nights since the patch was out, and I've yet to see a single proper dog fight at altitude. Every single time I see or hear someone engage on vent they are damn near on the deck. Tonight, for instance, I never left England (couldn't leave actually) because every time I spawned AAA was shooting at a 109 on the deck. I would love to see an E3/E4 at 5000m on up, tangle with any of the current red offerings, but it appears as long as I can remember with MP everything is on the deck. And even with the spitIIa in there, it hasn't changed.

Now, the 1st thing I did when I tried out an E4 was climb with it. I took off near the coast of France and by the time I was 1/2 to the middle of the channel I was over 7000m high. Now if I was to take off in a spitIIa, Hurri, or any of their varients, I don't think I would come close to that alt in such a short flight. I guess my point is, has anyone truly tried to fight a spit properly (very subjective I know) as in, has anyone fought one like how you have to in old IL2? Because all I see time and time again is flights at 2500m and lower and furballs on the deck. It was always the reds that would be uncoordinated and not wing up with each other, simple because of their maneuverability. While the blues were always all on coms with each other always using drag and bag / boom and zoom. From what I'm seeing or have been seeing over the past few months this hasn't happened. Vent is always full of reds and blues seem to be flying lone ranger all the time. (again just from what I've seen)

I'm definitely not saying the SpitIIa is badly outclassing any variant of 109, but until I see some high alt fighting where the red planes have much less performance, I'm not completely sold that the spitIIa can simply out do everything the 109 can.

Can we make an effort (even though it may be boring at 1st) to get altitude, altitude, altitude!!!?? And then secondly, blues join vent or your own ts, fly as pairs, bait the reds to come up and play with you, don't go down into their feeding grounds. I know SA is very hard in IL2COD, but since this patch lower contacts are 10x easier to spot than higher contacts. If you are the king of the hill (higher altitude) you have 2 advantages now.

Again, I'm not advocating which plane is better or worse. I fly all the planes, from bombers to fighters, and all sides. I'm not biased with it comes to wanting both historical accuracy or balance. But please try to keep the 109's out of the shark tank on the deck, I think some people might be surprised if you bait the reds to go up top to join the action, instead of the other way around.

One other thing, I think Ataros mentioned, is there is possibly a way to limit the amounts of certain types of planes? Through FBDj you could do that so if you say only 5 spitIIa's can be in the air at once, only 5 ever be spawned. We need that type of control to be able to limit certain aircraft for balance as well.

I will gladly remove the spitIIa if it is proven to be unfairly dominant in both high and low altitude (low altitude we already agree on). All I'm asking for is to do what the reds have been doing for a while now, get on coms or get a wingman, and get tactical.

These are simply my observations. But based on how most of the flying is that I've seen thus far leading up to this point where we're trying the spitIIa back in, the 109's have been deck hugging. (again just my observations) And I completely agree the 109 is too slow on the deck and needs changing!

Again, there's no agenda here, but even if it may be painfully boring to some, how about the blues make the reds get up to them, instead of the other way around? And then see what happens.

Trust me, I'm not trying to make things unfair, but I would like to see how much difference it makes if you bog those merlins down at 18000 ft and see how bad a spitIIa reacts in very thin air, both in turning and performance compared to the E3/E4. Granted a large majority of my time has been spent in the FMB, much more than flying, from some little testing I've done at altitude, I think the new patch 109 might surprise a few people up top. (again, I could be way off base here) But at least give it a try.. Is that too much to ask? And if the spitIIa is the super plane of all planes still, trust me, it will be gone or if possible severely limited fellas

[ATAG_Bliss]

But cheese you know as well as I do, that RL isn't close to what we have now, especially for the climb rate of a MkIa. That thing can barely get out of it's own way, let alone climb. I'm just asking, for the time being, to see how well you do if you force the red team up high (especially with how sickly the 1a acts up there) and see what happens. I'm not suggesting that what we have now is in anyway, shape, or form, correct. Just basing on the fact that any 109 can run circles around a 1a currently especially in a climb.

[esmiol]

most of the people who cry...need to learn to fly with theur plane...

you don't fly the same way in all circonstance... don't blame the plane but the pilot!

[LoBiSoMeM]

If someday we have an early pacific scenario, with zeros against all allied fighters, with accurate FMs...

War in uneven as hell...

[Madfish]

The core problem is: dogfight servers SHOULDN'T have red/blue at all.

All this complaining and crying can be fixed VERY easily. Give both sides the SAME planes. Period.


History, performance, FM blablablabla - all pointless. The pilots of the past had no clue what their enemies weakness was. Also they didn't have 20000 flying hours and a respawn button when they died! They didn't fly reckless sometimes because inexperienced fighters literally peed in their pants. An ace was worth something back then - today everyone can be an as*, eh ace.



Dogfight servers should have open plane selection. Give the red team a red overlay and a special red mark and the same goes for blue. Then everyone can fight out who's really the best - and not just sitting in the best plane while only being a mediocre pilot.


On real co-op/campaign servers it wouldn't matter because numbers etc are often different and thus it's always imbalanced by design.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Madfish

The core problem is: dogfight servers SHOULDN'T have red/blue at all.

All this complaining and crying can be fixed VERY easily. Give both sides the SAME planes. Period.


History, performance, FM blablablabla - all pointless. The pilots of the past had no clue what their enemies weakness was. Also they didn't have 20000 flying hours and a respawn button when they died! They didn't fly reckless sometimes because inexperienced fighters literally peed in their pants. An ace was worth something back then - today everyone can be an as*, eh ace.



Dogfight servers should have open plane selection. Give the red team a red overlay and a special red mark and the same goes for blue. Then everyone can fight out who's really the best - and not just sitting in the best plane while only being a mediocre pilot.


On real co-op/campaign servers it wouldn't matter because numbers etc are often different and thus it's always imbalanced by design.

Respectfully, I disagree. Maybe there could be some servers where the same plane is used by all, but when I've played Il2 with just the same planes, it tends to be the same thing (tactics-wise) ad infinitum. The best fights imo have had different types of planes, where differing strengths of the planes change how the battle plays out.

Just my opinion though. Maybe others feel different.

Bliss - You mentioned that you want to draw the red pilots up to high altitude. You could tempt them up by changing the height of the bomber raids to something higher than at present. Then they should have enough incentive to intercept and the 109's escorting them (players) could engage. The bombers are quite low at the moment I noted when I was on your server so currently there's not that much incentive for red to get much higher than them. Just a thought