Suddenly Spit IIa on all the servers?

[SEE]

Well done Bliss - presented a sensible argument and solution!

[Das Attorney]

Agreed

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I really enjoy watching the 109 whiners in their ever persistent quest to re-write history.

Cry me a freaking river.

This nonsense has been going on since the dawn of flight simulation. A sub set of German aircraft fanboys pushing their agenda and history be damned.

I laugh in your general direction.

All due respect mate but i think you're also showing signs of an agenda.

It's clearly documented in multiple threads thus far that's it's not only the 109. Every single fighter in the sim, both axis and allied, is undermodelled, except the Spit Mk.IIa

BoB era Spits were mostly tuned as interceptors, with climb rate and performance at altitude in mind. They were not furball machines for low level fights. There have been numerous posts on this thread with more details on that aspect.



That being said, i do find the complaints premature. People just thought "let's see how the E-4 does against the Mk.II" and that's why it's included in the servers now, it's a beta patch and beta patches are meant to be tested.


I think everyone should lighten up and fly some bombers for a change until fighters are fine tuned, especially now that the Blenheim is actually usable (the allied side finally has a bomb carrier) and crew position selection in MP is enabled a la IL2, just team up with a buddy and have a bit of level bombing while multicrewing the plane.

I also like Bliss's suggestion. Get three people in 111s and get up to 5000m, add a top cover of two 110s to boom and zoom anyone that tries to climb up there and sprinkle with a rotte of 109s to get the 110s out of trouble. If it's all about the dogfight then it's no surprise the most maneuverable aircraft will usually win, give them an incentive to play by your rules and then squash them

[esmiol]

most of the people who cry...need to learn to fly with theur plane...

you don't fly the same way in all circonstance... don't blame the plane but the pilot!

[LoBiSoMeM]

If someday we have an early pacific scenario, with zeros against all allied fighters, with accurate FMs...

War in uneven as hell...

[Madfish]

The core problem is: dogfight servers SHOULDN'T have red/blue at all.

All this complaining and crying can be fixed VERY easily. Give both sides the SAME planes. Period.


History, performance, FM blablablabla - all pointless. The pilots of the past had no clue what their enemies weakness was. Also they didn't have 20000 flying hours and a respawn button when they died! They didn't fly reckless sometimes because inexperienced fighters literally peed in their pants. An ace was worth something back then - today everyone can be an as*, eh ace.



Dogfight servers should have open plane selection. Give the red team a red overlay and a special red mark and the same goes for blue. Then everyone can fight out who's really the best - and not just sitting in the best plane while only being a mediocre pilot.


On real co-op/campaign servers it wouldn't matter because numbers etc are often different and thus it's always imbalanced by design.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Madfish

The core problem is: dogfight servers SHOULDN'T have red/blue at all.

All this complaining and crying can be fixed VERY easily. Give both sides the SAME planes. Period.


History, performance, FM blablablabla - all pointless. The pilots of the past had no clue what their enemies weakness was. Also they didn't have 20000 flying hours and a respawn button when they died! They didn't fly reckless sometimes because inexperienced fighters literally peed in their pants. An ace was worth something back then - today everyone can be an as*, eh ace.



Dogfight servers should have open plane selection. Give the red team a red overlay and a special red mark and the same goes for blue. Then everyone can fight out who's really the best - and not just sitting in the best plane while only being a mediocre pilot.


On real co-op/campaign servers it wouldn't matter because numbers etc are often different and thus it's always imbalanced by design.

Respectfully, I disagree. Maybe there could be some servers where the same plane is used by all, but when I've played Il2 with just the same planes, it tends to be the same thing (tactics-wise) ad infinitum. The best fights imo have had different types of planes, where differing strengths of the planes change how the battle plays out.

Just my opinion though. Maybe others feel different.

Bliss - You mentioned that you want to draw the red pilots up to high altitude. You could tempt them up by changing the height of the bomber raids to something higher than at present. Then they should have enough incentive to intercept and the 109's escorting them (players) could engage. The bombers are quite low at the moment I noted when I was on your server so currently there's not that much incentive for red to get much higher than them. Just a thought

[Walshy]

What everyone is forgetting is that the Mk-1 spit had a wooden Watts propellor what we see in the game is a three bladed spit, the wooden Watts constant speed propellor was desigend for high speed at altitude, it had a huge, for it's version and compared to other versions, take off run. The De-Havilland propellor cut that take off run by at least a third and rotol variable cut that again by half (I have done numerous testings with the A2A sims Accusim Spit and it stands up to all accounts). The Spit II should not dominate at height and neither should the Hurricane or for that matter the E-Mil most of the time it'll depend on the pilot. The first Spit to fully outmatch the E-Mill was the Mk V and that was because of the abilty to dive full down, without the half solution that was Mrs. Shillings oriface, which on the Mk-1's (Type 300) and Mk-2's (Type 329) of most of 1940 had yet to be fitted. So if your flying to dive away from a Spit of whatever mark and you're being caught you're not diving right, the Spit pilot HAS in these two MARKS to roll over first and then dive and counter roll in said dive to catch you, a lot going there and a lot of vital seconds to getaway for the E-Mill pilot. Chop throttle and prop pitch if you're going fast enough 300-395 you'll not pop a casket or burn the engine and you CAN do 2000 mtr dive with no bother level out maintain your speed and no bugger on the map will catch you unless he's in an E-Mill ......................... I've yet to be caught by a spit using this maneouver.

[Madfish]

Originally Posted by Das Attorney

Respectfully, I disagree. Maybe there could be some servers where the same plane is used by all, but when I've played Il2 with just the same planes, it tends to be the same thing (tactics-wise) ad infinitum. The best fights imo have had different types of planes, where differing strengths of the planes change how the battle plays out.

Just my opinion though. Maybe others feel different.

Sorry but please re-read my post. I didn't say everyone has to fly the SAME plane. I said everyone should fly a plane of their choice against a plane of his choice. Nothing would stop you from flying 109's against spits. Ironically it's often the people who want to have the upper hand who're against this type of selection. And if you're not one of them - don't worry: you'll have enough opportunity to fly your 109 against spits.

[Das Attorney]

Originally Posted by Madfish

Sorry but please re-read my post. I didn't say everyone has to fly the SAME plane. I said everyone should fly a plane of their choice against a plane of his choice. Nothing would stop you from flying 109's against spits. Ironically it's often the people who want to have the upper hand who're against this type of selection. And if you're not one of them - don't worry: you'll have enough opportunity to fly your 109 against spits.

Fair enough I got the wrong end of the stick there. That would be a lot better. I do a lot of that sort of game with my mates on IL2 and it's quite fun. Personally though, I prefer a historical battle if it's available.

EDIT: As in Luftwaffe vs RAF or USN vs IJN etc. not specific recreations of actual battles