What a tracer should look like (before spazzing just look).

[winny]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

Thanks, saved me the trouble.

I never said there was no streak, just that its angle is off. That's all.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Winny. When you pull G's in any plane in this sim, you can see the effects of the tracers. They are not always straight. (arcing) But they will never zig zag EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with relation to movement. When you are sitting in a moving aircraft the guns and your body are moving the same speed. In other words, you might as well be stationary. It's no different than thinking that you can jump at the last second when an elevator is falling to save your yourself. Your problem is you think your body (in this airplane scenario) isn't moving right along with the weapon.

Anyhow, I'll say it one last time. Tracers go straight. Tracers look straight. Regardless if you are firing from an MRAP bouncing all over the place at 70mph or from an airplane going 200mph bouncing all over the place.

It's quite obvious that you don't have any experience in the matter.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Winny. When you pull G's in any plane in this sim, you can see the effects of the tracers. They are not always straight. (arcing) But they will never zig zag EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about with relation to movement. When you are sitting in a moving aircraft the guns and your body are moving the same speed. In other words, you might as well be stationary. It's no different than thinking that you can jump at the last second when an elevator is falling to save your yourself. Your problem is you think your body (in this airplane scenario) isn't moving right along with the weapon.

Anyhow, I'll say it one last time. Tracers go straight. Tracers look straight. Regardless if you are firing from an MRAP bouncing all over the place at 70mph or from an airplane going 200mph bouncing all over the place.

It's quite obvious that you don't have any experience in the matter.

I don't need experience, just a pen and paper.

I admit it's an abstract concept, but it's something that you can measure.

I really have to emphasise the difference between the bullet which I know always goes straight, and the streak effect in the eye.

If you were right behind a tracer bullet it would look like a circle getting smaller, no streak. If you pull up hard the tracer bullet will move down your view until it disapears. At the points it is actually moving down the scene the streak must be behind it this would mean that something mving away from you would have it's streak in front of it (relative to it's flightpath). It's this that I'm trying to get across, not zig-zag, hollywood etc... just something organic that happens that is subtle.

I am not campaigning for this to happen in CoD either. It started as an observation as to why some people find CoD's tracers slightly off.

[ATAG_Bliss]

No. To know what you are talking about with regards to how something looks like, you need experience. You can jabber on your pen and paper all you want to but that will never change the fact to what a tracer round looks like to your naked eye.

If you are right behind a tracer, it looks like a dot, not a circle. The streak effect in the eye is ONLY (let me reiterate this for the 1000X) Only is going to happen if you are FOCUSING on that individual round. NEVER will it happen if the round simply comes into your vision.

I have to ask, because it seems like you are lobbying for something that is already there. Have you played IL2COD? Because the relationship between how straight the tracers appear (in game) are all relative to where you are in relation to firing them. If you turn hard when you are firing they do exactly like they should (which seems like that's what you are promoting)

Please go fire up the game. It seems like you are arguing for something that you didn't even know already existed in the 1st place.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

If you are right behind a tracer, it looks like a dot, not a circle. The streak effect in the eye is ONLY (let me reiterate this for the 1000X) Only is going to happen if you are FOCUSING on that individual round. NEVER will it happen if the round simply comes into your vision.

What shape is a tracer round from behind? Circular. What shape is a dot? Circular. I didn't say sphere. (Very petty too)

So you're saying that you can only see tracers that you are focusing on?

How does a 'dot' of light that is travelling across the back of your eye not leave a trail? If you're focused on it or not.

I'm not lobbying, I don't care if it's included or not, as you mentioned the current ones are quite good . It's merely an observation.

I'm actually just defending my argument.

It's a fact that the streak should always be at 180 degrees to the movement across the screen and it's length dictated by the relative speed across the screen, there is no depth involved the dot just gets smaller and dimmer. CoD sometimes breaks this rule, ever so slightly - all I was doing was trying to explain the subtle difference that some people have picked up on.

It's the constant 'you don't know what you are talking about' posts that make me want to reply.
All I need to understand is that bright light leaves a trail behind it when it moves. Then work out the path it would take relative to the camera/eye/screen.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Oh boy. Here's an example of a circle ( O ). Notice how the inside is void. A tracer from behind does not look like that as it has no void.

The streak effect I was referring to is the effect YOU were talking about. (Remember your flashlight / candle analogy?) That only can happen if you are trying to focus on a single round.

Who said a dot of light didn't have a trail? A tracer produces a streak of light meaning not just a dot (depending on your offset position) And once you actually fire them, you'll realize that the front of that trail and the back of that trail look virtually identical (aka a straight line). And that line is there because your eyes are not good enough to simply focus on an object moving at that rate of speed. That's why once you TRY to do this that line can get all sorts of goofy looking.

I'm done arguing. This is pointless.

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

Oh boy. Here's an example of a circle ( O ). Notice how the inside is void. A tracer from behind does not look like that as it has no void.

The streak effect I was referring to is the effect YOU were talking about. (Remember your flashlight / candle analogy?) That only can happen if you are trying to focus on a single round.

Who said a dot of light didn't have a trail? A tracer produces a streak of light meaning not just a dot (depending on your offset position) And once you actually fire them, you'll realize that the front of that trail and the back of that trail look virtually identical (aka a straight line). And that line is there because your eyes are not good enough to simply focus on an object moving at that rate of speed. That's why once you TRY to do this that line can get all sorts of goofy looking.

I'm done arguing. This is pointless.

If you'd said you didn't think it was worth including, or that you don't want it including or that you're 100% happy with the CoD tracers then I would have let it go, that's your opinion. I have no problem with that. None.

When you are telling me that 'my' theory is wrong when its demonstrably right, then I'll defend it.

'O' is an example of the outline of a circle. Colour it in, guess what? it's still a circle. Why are you even arguing this point?

[ATAG_Bliss]

You have nothing to defend because when you are firing a weapon you do not focus on the round coming out of the weapon and therefore any thought about what that looks like is completely moot.

It's as if this entire conversation is completely over your head.

And yes I'm completely happy with COD tracers because they are one of the few I've ever seen in a game that actually look realistic.

And why would I ever say what you are wanting is worth including? It's not worth including because if you are 1st of all, firing a weapon with live ammunition, and 2ndly at a target, if you are sitting there trying to watch the rounds instead of the target, you shouldn't even be allowed to hold a gun in the 1st place.

And the way they look is not my opinion. It's fact. You should let it go because you don't know what you're talking about. And your back peddling on the issue shows just that.

[yellonet]

Here's a video showing what I think winny means. The tracers seemingly curves away.
It's quite obvious at 1:23 and 6:55.
Some skilled formation flying at 7:23 too.
Overall a good guncam video (except that some moron thought there was a need for music to dramatize it) if a bit grim when you consider what it is you're watching.
Is this in the game already?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv8rFPLN_Fg

[winny]

Originally Posted by SYN_Bliss

You have nothing to defend because when you are firing a weapon you do not focus on the round coming out of the weapon and therefore any thought about what that looks like is completely moot.

It's as if this entire conversation is completely over your head.

And yes I'm completely happy with COD tracers because they are one of the few I've ever seen in a game that actually look realistic.

And why would I ever say what you are wanting is worth including? It's not worth including because if you are 1st of all, firing a weapon with live ammunition, and 2ndly at a target, if you are sitting there trying to watch the rounds instead of the target, you shouldn't even be allowed to hold a gun in the 1st place.

And the way they look is not my opinion. It's fact. You should let it go because you don't know what you're talking about. And your back peddling on the issue shows just that.

I'm not back peddling.

So in your opinion tracers stay straight no matter what movement occurs at the viewing end? That just shows ignorance of some very basic rules.

If they dont bow slightly they are breaking the laws of physics.

If you are flying in a tight right hand turn firing your guns in cod you can see the tracer go off screen to the left. This means that they must be moving right to left and if there is movement right to left this has to effect the streaks angle as the dot of light has to draw the streak at 180 degrees to the movement across the eye/screen.

If you draw out 5 'frames' from cod and trace out the starting point and end point and 3 points between of the dot of light, accounting for sideways movement, you get a curved path.

At any point along this path the streak must be inside it because thats where the dot of light went. CoD is in effect drawing in light where it has never been.

I 100% know what I'm talking about.

You just don't get it.

Like I said I'm not asking for anyone to implement this in game.

This about what I can prove that happens against what you say doesn't.