Mods discussion, links, etc

[MicroWave]

Originally Posted by WWFlybert

...
In USA, to sue you must show monetary damages, so while if anyone were to take 1C or UbiSoft copyright material and resell it without permission, 1C and Ubisoft would certainly be damaged .. if anyone were to distribute the core game and it's files, even for free, that would indeed be theft and damage 1C and Ubisoft

Mods as distributed, do not work without the player having a copy of IL-2 1946, presumably legally purchased .. if anything, an argument could be made that many more copies of IL-2 1946 have been sold because of mods, than if the game had not been cracked and modded
...

I would just like to comment on this part. One could argue that mods are damaging 1C/UbiSoft profit because distribution of even new content for free in form of mods hurts sales of potential patches/addons with same or similar content. Furthermore, mods (could) negatively reflect on user perception of the official product by creating incompatibility between different versions, bugs unrelated to official product, etc. Finally, I'm pretty sure that re-distribution of software in whole or in parts without permission is illegal in good ol' USA too.

I just want to make clear that I think that those legal arguments are purely academic in context of Il2. I don't think that there is money left in Il2 worth more than a cup of coffee for everyone involved. Mods for Il2 are out there for quite some time. Most users understand what they bring in terms of content and risks. The situation is more complicated because Il2 was not designed to absorb mods while the game is still being officially developed. However, installation of Il2 is very simple and there are 3rd party tools which enable switching between different versions (including the official one). DT cannot guarantee that mods will work after new releases of the official product. I think this is understandable, because AFAIK different mods are not compatible between each other either.

[Oktoberfest]

Hello Saqson,

well, I just want to share a bit about intellectual properties in 3D models as I have (had) the same problem at the moment. I work for a big hardware company that provide a lot of stuff for aicraft companies, and we are planning to release an application with 3D modelling for the Paris Air Show in June.

We needed an aircraft to show where exactly the components are placed in the aircrafts we equip, however we don't have the money to pay fees to any company to have the right to use their aircraft in our promotion. So we took an existing 3D model of an aircraft and modified it to be a 'generic' aircraft. It's totally legal and we will have that on public display on the biggest Air Show in the world.

I tell you 100% sure that you can model a ship that looks like an american BB and call it 'Generic BB' or 'Generic Cruiser' without having legal issues as long as :
-You make enough changes to be able to prove that NG never designed this ship EVEN if it has some ressemblance with US WWII ships. For example, put 15 - 20 meters more hull. Put or remove additionnal turrets, change the place of the catapults, etc... Changes that wouldn't change the general feeling that the ship is an US BB, but enough to put you out of reach of NG.

- You don't put any name related to a NG ship. So you'll just have to find new names or change them a bit like : Essex > Essecs... That would be enough.

Obviously, those modifications cannot be made to aircrafts, but so many designs were made in ships in WWII that nothing can stop you to create a ship that looks real and credible enough.

To help mission editors, I would even suggest to not give a name to those generic ships, but to put, in the FMB, the ability to name a ship that would then appear on the hull of the ship in the mission, a bit like the aircraft markings.

No more legal issues

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Originally Posted by |ZUTI|

why do you, TD members, argue here, in MODS section? Don't you have your own section one forum above this one?

Because there are lies and wrong informations, that get told here and on other places. And more and more DT is put into the dirt. Sometimes it just better not to be silent.

[SaQSoN]

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

Hello Saqson,

well, I just want to share a bit about intellectual properties in 3D models as I have (had) the same problem at the moment.

Thanks, yes, I know this approach. This is what Ubi did with SH5. I was discussing this once with Ilya (I still have Yorktown model, built for PF and not included in the game because of NG, so I suggested to modify it in a similar way, as you proposed). But he just said, "better to keep away from them completely".

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by SaQSoN

Thanks, yes, I know this approach. This is what Ubi did with SH5. I was discussing this once with Ilya (I still have Yorktown model, built for PF and not included in the game because of NG, so I suggested to modify it in a similar way, as you proposed). But he just said, "better to keep away from them completely".

Sad because it's just impossible to get sued for doing this. Just moving the superstructures a bit would do the trick.

For your info, on my aircraft, we changed the engine nacelle and put a cargo door...

[Asheshouse]

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

Sad because it's just impossible to get sued for doing this. Just moving the superstructures a bit would do the trick.

For your info, on my aircraft, we changed the engine nacelle and put a cargo door...

Unfortunately I think what you mean to say is that it is impossible to be successfully sued. It is always possible for a corporation to commence legal proceedings, even if their case is weak. Then the party being sued is liable to incur significant costs simply to get the case dismissed. Grumman have deep pockets and huge resources.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

Grumman have deep pockets and huge resources.

But, unfortunately and obviously, no common sense.

[batistadk]

My post will not be exclusively about mods, but it fits on the subject anyways, indulge me people.

Just a sad complain about NG Corp. attitude. I'm following this discussion, and already done it in many others, about this copyright problem with this Corporation. With this attitude, NG is excluding an important part of US WWII history, as planes and ships that gave the victory to their own country.

It's a shame they are doing this for so many time now, and we can't do anything to try to change this situation.

I think NG Corp. could think in a more patriotic way, or, at least, give the real valor to enterprises like this sim, that tries to mantain alive the memories of important and hard times that had already gone.

It's probably very sad for the americans, that got a scar in the middle of their own history, thanks to evil corporations and seemingly endless money interests.

About the deep pocket, I agree completely. NG Corp. could realize that IL-2 is not anymore a high-profitable product, and probably no one will get a huge amount of money with sales anymore, because CloD, for example, and because it's already a 10 years old software.

This is a huge comunity. Together, I think we can change this situation, or at least, make them listen us, in a LEGAL way. But it depends on a lot of factors, and I'm being too much romantic right now.

Anyway, I have hope that someday this issue will be solved, and we will fly NG aircrafts and sunk their ships with their own approval. It's possible because the size and the power of this community, that I'm proud of being part.

Again, I'm sorry about being a little off topic, people.

Cheers...

batistadk

[Asheshouse]

Batistadk, you are right. The only result of this is a loss of a small but significant part of US history.

So if you are from the US get out an old fashioned pen and paper and write to the Chief Executive of NG to complain. The worst that can happen is that you are ignored, but who knows, cutting out the lawyers and going straight to the top sometimes fixes things like this.

Ashe

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by Asheshouse

Batistadk, you are right. The only result of this is a loss of a small but significant part of US history.

So if you are from the US get out an old fashioned pen and paper and write to the Chief Executive of NG to complain. The worst that can happen is that you are ignored, but who knows, cutting out the lawyers and going straight to the top sometimes fixes things like this.

Ashe

That's a great idea ! If he receives like a hundred mail about this, maybe this could get the things to move. I always wondered if the CEO knew about that history with IL2 and I suppose that if it's the case he might give orders to let go... But maybe I'm dreaming... However, did anybody try ??