CoD vs some other sims that model Kent?

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

The terrain in the video above (WoP) looks beautiful, and a lot more natural that CoD. I can't see any argument against this, because the transition of textures to villages is smooth, the location of trees and other vegation is historically accurate and extremely natural.

By the way, that simply is not true. People have posted the CoD maps. They are an amazing match to the real photographs from 1945. No one has even attempted similar comparisons for WoP.

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

By the way, that simply is not true. People have posted the CoD maps. They are an amazing match to the real photographs from 1945. No one has even attempted similar comparisons for WoP.

Actually, you are wrong. Cast your mind back about two years ago, when the BoP forum first surfaced. The Dev's posted b&w phots of dover docks from the 40's period, and showed pitcures of the terrain which perfectly matched every single field! People could see their houses! The attention to detail was extremely impressive...so impressive, that Oleg asked for this work, but they refused to give it to him, which was rather horrible.

Seriously mate, you're arguments are wearing thin. Accept that whilst CoD is overall a lot more impressive technically than WoP, there are elements of WoP which are extremely good. You're arguments are not constructive enough to offer any real credibility IMHO.

And every element we have examined is not better in CoD! Look at the layout of fields and hedges and trees in WoP. It's realistic. I know that CoD's trees look nicer, there is 3-D looking grass (which could be improved to RoF standards IMHO) the buildings are beautiful; but there are elements which make one think: "ah! This is England" and CoD just lacks that 'Englishness' to make the effect poignant.

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Seriously mate, you're arguments are wearing thin. Accept that whilst CoD is overall a lot more impressive technically than WoP, there are elements of WoP which are extremely good. You're arguments are not constructive enough to offer any real credibility IMHO.

Look, there have been screenshots and maps posted on this very thread which show that CoD does an amazing job of simulating the countryside. It's not just my "thin arguments", it's actual side by side screenshots. No one has even attempted that for WoP. As long as no one attempts it, it's people who are arguing for WoP whose arguments are wearing thin.

If you think actual screenshots and maps are not "credible", I would like to hear your standards for credibility.

[philip.ed]

I think I made it clear that pictures have been posted showing field for field matchings in WoP (although thinking about this, I can't understand why some tiles repeat in areas...)

but yes, pictures showing this have not been posted in this topic.
But that still doesn't get past what I'm saying about the layout of the fields and the hedges and trees.
Clearly from all shots posted, this is better in WoP as it is more like England.

I think that, overall, CoD is better, but you have to understand, that areas of WoP have their merits.

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I think I made it clear that pictures have been posted showing field for field matchings in WoP (although thinking about this, I can't understand why some tiles repeat in areas...)

They repeat because the devs are cheating. CoD does it too, but it isn't as easy to spot. And I haven't seen any WoP screenshots showing matching fields.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

but yes, pictures showing this have not been posted in this topic.
But that still doesn't get past what I'm saying about the layout of the fields and the hedges and trees.
Clearly from all shots posted, this is better in WoP as it is more like England.

NO! It is not clear at all. You just said that "pictures showing this have not been posted in this topic". You can't follow that up by saying something is clear when PICTURES SHOWING THIS HAVE NOT BEEN POSTED.

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I think that, overall, CoD is better, but you have to understand, that areas of WoP have their merits.

What sort of merit? CoD appears to be superior in every comparable metric except bugs (and the bugs will be fixed).

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by David Hayward

NO! It is not clear at all. You just said that "pictures showing this have not been posted in this topic". You can't follow that up by saying something is clear when PICTURES SHOWING THIS HAVE NOT BEEN POSTED.

Pictures showing comparisons with areas of england in WoP have not been posted in this thread.
Pictures showing the representation of vegetation compared to photos of modern-day Britain have (largely, the layout is quite similar to that of the 1940's. see here:



a modern picture: similar to the above, in many respects, and again, more similar in LAYOUT to WoP than CoD



please, read everything I write, don't be selective.

[David Hayward]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Pictures showing comparisons with areas of england in WoP have not been posted in this thread.
Pictures showing the representation of vegetation compared to photos of modern-day Britain have (largely, the layout is quite similar to that of the 1940's. see here:



a modern picture: similar to the above, in many respects, and again, more similar in LAYOUT to WoP than CoD



please, read everything I write, don't be selective.

I read everything, and I haven't been selective at all.

The bottom image LAYOUT looks just like CoD. In fact, the LAYOUT in BOTH images looks like CoD. Where is the WoP image so we can compare them?

You wont see many pics of field to field comparisons in here because this is the CoD forum, why dont you pop over to the WoP forum and have a look?
Dude I still cant belive you are still here 42 pages later banging on about how shit WoP is, your argument now hinges on something you said you havent seen, so go look.

I agree Phil that WoP terrain is extremely detailed and does have the English feel way more over CoD. To be honest i think at the moment it looks more like Russia or Ukrane in the summer, with UK factories and some houses and Windmills from Holland
I also think that if CoD works for some then when its improved they will be very happy but at the moment the skies are a bit lonely because not everyone who has bought the game can run it because of the coding issues they are trying to solve.
Hopefully when they get it sorted they will look at improving the terrain model somewhat but i think our hedges are a loong way off.

[Buchon]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Is this summer ?, because the Battle over Britain was in summer.

Dont looks like that photo was taken in summer, the grass is not yellowed by the hot of the summer, it looks like in spring.

Just like in WOP, the England map in WOP looks like spring or autumn.

Pretty green and grass to eye-candy players instead do an historical accurate environment.

[phoenix1963]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

...I think that, overall, CoD is better, but you have to understand, that areas of WoP have their merits.

I largely agree with philip.ed's opinion, we've made similar comments long before CloD was released.
What's noticeable about the WoP pictures is the obvious object budget and hence limited detail in the distance and the use of haze. But actually, CloD could do with MORE haze, because that's what it's like in SE England almost all the time. philip.ed's posted view of the countryside looks unusually clear.
Where I think Oleg might have a point is the lack of colour saturation in the middle of the day. If you remember he challenged some critic to send him a RAW format photo, presumably on the grounds that jpeg etc may have hyped contrast. Certainly, when the sun is low, CloD looks a lot more how I experience Kent, but there's a fair bit of human perception involved as the eye darts around the scene, with the brain adjusting contrast continually. I've photographed landscapes specifically to compare with, supposedly realistic, paintings - you wouldn't believe the difference!
As philip.ed and others say, the lack of hedgerows is a real immersion killer. I suspect that's because they'd have to be tailored for the bumpy ground, but I don't know a great deal about modern graphics.

This is a good discussion, nobody here is trying to damage CloD, I think we all want it to succeed. But I also want to give pointers about how it could be better.

56RAF_phoenix