Cliffs of Dover Video Thread V1.0 [Closed]

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

The engine of a Hurricane has a dry weight of 1,640 lb (744 kg) and is ofcourse located forward of centre of gravity. (almost at the edge of forward momentum.)

A small plane losing that much weight so far out of cg would defenetly become unstable and probably uncontrollable in pitch axis especially when speed drops.
(Empty weight of Hurri is about 5,700 lb (2,600 kg) and the engine is almost a third of that value)

Speed proves that bricks can fly, but I think that Zoom2136 has a valid point here... There are several videos showing that the damage model may note be flawless... (hurricane flying without two wings etc.)

I guess the only way is to let Mytbusters do the test!

You don't need to involve Mythbusters to understand what should happen. If the engine comes off the CG will shift aft of the center of pressure. The CG can sit forward of the center of pressure in normal operation because you have a tail down force (the horizontal stab being a wing with a lift vector acting downwards) with a long arm balancing it out. This lever arm is providing the stability and pitch control. Move the CG aft of the center of pressure and you have an unbalanced system. If you were in a vacuum, it would result in a sustained backwards tumble. In the atmosphere, there are going to be some chaotic and extreme aerodynamic loads that would be applied to the airframe, which in reality would probably result in some significant structural failures.

So, it's safe to say it's not accurately modeled at present. It's also probably too much to ask for realistic CG and center of mass modeling under all flight conditions. What they should do consider is to have the loss of an engine result in a rapid pitch up and general structural failure. For a multi-engine, it would be more of a roll into the good engine side with structural failure at the root of the wing that lost the engine.

[F16_Petter]

Originally Posted by Koyan

Thanks to all vids creators and posters. Gave me a excellent impression that Il2 CoD is a must have for me. Great sim!

A few notes: Pilots and crew seem sometimes very quick when bailing out. The plane catches fire and immediately someone jumps out. In reality it would take more time imho. Belts, open canopy or getting to the exit, climbing out, takes more time especially when in panic.

The vid of the high speed dawn. Wonder if it would gain fps if you could switch off the animated clouds. Because at normal speed you hardly notice this.

I second that (Since I have not got the sim yet, I must say what I have seen from vids posted on youtube.)
I guess it would take quite some time to strap yourself off the seat or get up from a bellygun etc and climb up or down if the plane is diving in a spiral..

A sidenote: also they seem to drop their bombload almost immideatly after being shot at aswell..? I might be wrong, Ive just seen a couple of clips..

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by spahis

I haven't been following the debates but yes, i've fired real tracers on 30mm automatic cannon and machine gun, and i'm 100% sure they don't look like they do in COD nor like most other games. On video they look "long" because the camera burns the image during a period of time and during that time the bullet moves on. I don't want to start another debate but it's always bothered me while playing

Not having done that myself, would the current effect be more realistic at night when the tracer movement would tend to burn in? In other words, it should be ball like in daytime but a bit more light saberish at night.

[F16_Petter]

Yes, Hoverbug.. great Idea about loss of engine/loss of tail section !

Okay.. lets keep the thread living, show us some vids!
Gunkan, por favor.. mas videos!!!

[Oldschool61]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

I guess it would take quite some time to strap yourself off the seat or get up from a bellygun etc and climb up or down if the plane is diving in a spiral..

My old neighbor was a togglier/bombardier in a B-17 who flew 31 missions out of Grafton-Underwood and he said that if the plane starts spinning you get pinned against the fueselage and cant move so if these planes are spinning almost no one should be able to bail out.

[Qpassa]

Originally Posted by F16_Petter

Can anyone post some videos of the bombsight in the He111?
*curious*

Less flood, more research. One has been uploaded

[Strike]

Originally Posted by Mysticpuma

Actually, after watching the production threads, I really would love to see that great animation showing the Pilot bailing from the aircraft, you know, the one where he climbs onto the wing and then falls?

Is that in the game?

Cheers, MP

I believe from what I've seen that they've cut that out. Imagine this:

If the spitfire has a bailout sequence, all planes should eventually have a bailout sequence..

That means the developers not only have to make 1 unique animation for each plane, but infact Multiple animations for each bomber with all the different crew positions. That requires a LOT of work. Maybe we'll see something like it in the future.

Also, such an animation would not be realistic in all circumstances, say in a steep 500 Km/h death-dive you wouldn't get far out of the cockpit with those wind strengths. I'd say you could easily hit the horizontal stabilizer doing a jump like that one in the video at high speeds. I read somewhere that the common way to bail out (also as seen in the movie Dark Blue World) was to open/jettison the canopy, release your harness, and with both legs retracted towards your body - kick the stick forwards so that the negative G dive would "launch" you clear of the plane.

I think as far as bailouts go, the devs should reconsider the skydiving animation for a more "tumbling and rolling" animation. I've never seen a guncam video or a 40's era parachute instruction video where the men are in a "spread eagle" move. They usually tumble about for a little until they can reach the rip-cord.

Also it looks like the pilots don't follow/retain the planes speed as they initially bail out. They seem to fall straight down whereas they should more or less fall like a bomb (with higher speed bleedoff because bombs are streamline unlike falling humans.) If they could combine this with a better animation and perhaps the pilot bailing out in a random direction (to simulate that the pilot leaps away from the plane instead of "spawning" inside it and falling straight down).

And finally, I think the chute should generally use a little more time to fully unfold. Right now it's quite instant, but chutes like that can use up to 2 seconds or more to deploy fully, actually it's quite random.

Interesting listen about bailing out :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrKzz9P794A

More "evidence"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgWWIDNzM78

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by Oldschool61

My old neighbor was a togglier/bombardier in a B-17 who flew 31 missions out of Grafton-Underwood and he said that if the plane starts spinning you get pinned against the fueselage and cant move so if these planes are spinning almost no one should be able to bail out.

Very true in a bomber because you won't usually be able to get to an exit without effort. In a fighter, it may be possible depending on the dynamics of the spin - i.e. flat spin. If its a bit more of a dynamic oscillation, the plane might become unloaded at various points where the pilot may get lucky and be able to push out - of course not getting whacked by the tail in the process is a different issue.

[badfinger]

I have read several times that a bomber going down was always somebody's coffin.

I crawled into a B-25 once, from the bomb bay, and then through a tunnel up into the nose. I had trouble getting through with the plane sitting on the ground. My impression was that these guys knew they had little chance of getting out of a plane in trouble, and they went anyway. That's courage.

binky9

[Space Communist]

Originally Posted by spahis

Have you ever seen real tracers shot? I mean real real, not vids. In reality they don't look like flying light sabers but like fireballs. It's the same with every game it seems, i'm surprised nobody ever points it out.

As was mentioned this has been debated endlessly. The majority of people with military experience describe how surprised they were that tracers looked like "lasers" (real lasers look nothing like Star Wars lasers but I won't get into that.)

Some people did describe them as more like points, or fireballs as you say. But generally the consensus seemed to be that they only look like points when they are being fired out of a barrel you are looking down, so that the round is not moving much laterally to you. When seen from the side (someone else firing, or a gun in your wing or well underneath you in the nose,) they turn more or less into bars, though often with the front of the "bar" being brighter than the tail.

Now I am not speaking from personal experience so please feel free to correct me, I am simply summarizing the conclusions come to in other threads.