I Want my 4.09 Spit FM's back.........

[Flanker35M]

S!

This thread delivers. Can't wait to see the amount of whinery when IL-2:CoD is out. Then each and every armchair combat ace pilot X or Y is like a kid with a lollipop pulled out of their mouth when their fabled plane does not act like a X-Wing or TIE. This same crap discussion about Spit vs 109/Allied vs Axis has waged on since first flight sims from stone age and only between the GAMERS..or should use word lamers. This pathetic horde of "know it all sim pilots" are like kids on a sandbox arguing who's daddy has biggest epeen. And of course everyone here knows better how it was and should be, than the real vets, for sure. We would beat them vets all if given chance..right? This never ends..and you still wonder why no-one wants to make a flight sim?

I bet every "Mr.Pompom" / "Herr Bratwurst", depending on color orientation blue/red, would whine even given a chance fly the real plane and it would not fly up to expectations Please, bring on CoD and the new evolution of whinery

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by Fenrir

Manu, as a Lufty flyer I respect, can you see the issue here with the ailerons?

It also seems to get worse with the more powerful spits, which is counter intuitive; surely, more power = more torque = LEFT wing drop, not right as with the 4.10 spits.

It's been a long time since those halcyon days on Spits V 109s buddy, I hope you are well.

I'm now a DangerDog, and very well thanks mate. The Black Dragons fell by the wayside after an enforced hiatus, spend most of my time mainly online co-oping with the squad and a very merry, fun loving bunch they are! You still fly Spits V 109s? 4.10 or modded?

this and

Originally Posted by Triggaaar

Why are you laughing, are you not interested in having accurate modelled planes in the game you play? Presumably you're not commenting on the accuracy of the flight model, since you only fly axis planes and wouldn't know much about how the allied planes fly. Those of us that fly both allied and axis planes like them to be as well modelled as is sensible in a game.

this are commendable posts. obvious desire for accuracy borne out of flying both sides.

however this,

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

The Spit wasn't modelled correctly at all before 4.10m anyway. Magic E-Retention, 90° turns in less than one sec at 500 kph, no overheating, ability to keep dogfighting even if full of lead.... The examples are countless. Now at least, they are more close to real physics.

BTW, I fly the 110 for already 4 years now, neraly exclusively. You sure need a lot of trim to have it fly level, and also to counter the torque of he engines. I got used to that. I think Spitfire pilots will just have to learn that too now.

isn't. i cannot understand folk who fly only one side, or only one plane, and then decide to deride their opponents as either idiots or inferior in skill for their choices. it smacks of the same snobbery and high horsed-ness that some full switch flyers exhibit.
and this hardly gives you a qualified opinion does it?

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

Look I am one of the guys who don't care if the plane if 5km/h faster than the real plane and so on: I'm perfectly aware that the margin of error of 5% is good enough.

But I'm one of those who likes to review the airplanes flying them in battle environments; I fled Spitfire a lot in training sessions and to balance online missions.
I become a Oleg's Spit-hater because of the great differences between this kind of plane and the other in IL2 (above all his counterparts). The Spitfires were incredible.

Then I think you have to understand if some pilots who really has resigned themself to fly a wierd Fw190 (the "bar" is only the peak of the iceberg in that plane, you'll see) now they find "relaxing" that the plane of their nightmare has been tuned down. After years of "luftwhiners" name calling...

You say that it's easier to survive in a 109 and 190: you're right because people must learn to fly the 109/190 the right way while noobs in the old spitfire model could still score many kills against average pilots and sometimes against veterans too since they don't think about their survival. Infact today I usually don't attack a spitfire at my same altitude. Of course there are exceptions like Fenrir and his teammates and one guy in TD (sorry can't remember the name in this moment) and maybe some others: they used the Spitfire in the way a warbird should be used (!energy fighting!) and could not be killed even if outnumbered.

So IMO this is a great patch since also the average Spitfire pilot has to learn the basics of air fighting.

My squad is used to fly training dogfights at 7km with SpitV vs 109F and the first day using the 4.10 Spitfire all the "Red" pilots were surprised and happy at the same time. The common exlamation was "FINALLY!".

Now I can return to love that plane in IL2 too (but Fenrir is right about those issues).

tbh i'm pretty firmly of the opinion that spitfires may be easy to fly, but they are hard to excel in. i find 190s are far deadlier, either in my hands or in those of my opponent. i find spitfires irritatingly hard to get guns on, but as long as i am not being stupid i don't fear them as much as a 190. i also try not to attack people at my altitude, but that's in any airframe barring possibly a 190, where i can rely on the heavy armament and a reasonable speed/dive advantage. overall... hell i don't know, i'll get used to it! however i would say if you take damage in a spitfire it robs you of it's main, defensive, tool - a stable fast rate turn. a 109 or 190... couldn't turn in the first place, so nose down and flee.

Originally Posted by Oktoberfest

ROFLMAO LOL MDR

At least my plane taught me some skills to defeat better planes. I doubt it happens with the spit.

lol. sure it does, being pinned to the deck by a faster 109 or 190 being flown by someone with two brain cells to rub together. but then that's a lesson in defeating better pilots.

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

This thread delivers. Can't wait to see the amount of whinery when IL-2:CoD is out. Then each and every armchair combat ace pilot X or Y is like a kid with a lollipop pulled out of their mouth when their fabled plane does not act like a X-Wing or TIE. This same crap discussion about Spit vs 109/Allied vs Axis has waged on since first flight sims from stone age and only between the GAMERS..or should use word lamers. This pathetic horde of "know it all sim pilots" are like kids on a sandbox arguing who's daddy has biggest epeen. And of course everyone here knows better how it was and should be, than the real vets, for sure. We would beat them vets all if given chance..right? This never ends..and you still wonder why no-one wants to make a flight sim?

I bet every "Mr.Pompom" / "Herr Bratwurst", depending on color orientation blue/red, would whine even given a chance fly the real plane and it would not fly up to expectations Please, bring on CoD and the new evolution of whinery

funniest post of my day

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by MD_Titus

tbh i'm pretty firmly of the opinion that spitfires may be easy to fly, but they are hard to excel in. i find 190s are far deadlier, either in my hands or in those of my opponent. i find spitfires irritatingly hard to get guns on, but as long as i am not being stupid i don't fear them as much as a 190. i also try not to attack people at my altitude, but that's in any airframe barring possibly a 190, where i can rely on the heavy armament and a reasonable speed/dive advantage. overall... hell i don't know, i'll get used to it! however i would say if you take damage in a spitfire it robs you of it's main, defensive, tool - a stable fast rate turn. a 109 or 190... couldn't turn in the first place, so nose down and flee.

Of course the faster plane is the better one for survival, and I'm aware that Spitfires can take a great punishment by a single 20m (sure they are not Las or "Emmental" Yaks). However there is the thing called "ambush". You can kill a Fw190 with an Hurricane if you bounce it. But in all my hours of flight on dogfight servers the number of times I have found Spitfires higher than me is something like 10 (to be positive!). A lot of P47s, many P51s... but usually the Spit are on low/medium altitude. Usually you find them following a enemy without checking they six (and then some hilarious guys call the DnB a blue tactics, like P51 couldn't do it) or chasing a smoking plane in the enemy base (I'm quite sure that many complains by P51's pilot about the inadequacy of the brownings in IL2 were because they couldn't score kills: they damage the 109, that 109 go home but a Spitfire get him "winning" the 100 points ). Why do I find them always at 300m in furballs? It's like fishing in a bathtub! Go in the BoB dogfight server, it's an example.

The times I had Spitfire higher than me, even if I was not ambushed (one single ambush of Jaws had taught me in my first days.. now I'm paranoid):
- I had to extend home since I could not touch it
- to kill the good Fenrir in his single Spitfire at 6km my squad needed of four 190s (Spitfires climb better and can stay in the zone at lower speed, Fenrir knew it well)
- another time 5 Doras couldn't not touch another guy at 7km.
And when you have an enemy over your head you can't do your job because your SA is always busy (and the other guys on the targets can do more damage... Tempest?).

What if they weren't alone but there were four coordinated Spitfires? A good thing of Spitfires is that they can stay on the zone of action since they don't rely on high speed to be fled (do you remember the Galland's quote?) and so they can provide a wonderful air superiority on the front.

To me their main problem is the ammo quantity but without the "engine radar" limit of IL2 that would not be a real issue(infact in IL2 it's a problem for both the sides).

However I know that diving is better in the german planes but still diving is a defensive manouvre who actually take them OUT of action... after the dive you have to go away and regain energy (altitude). Instead the Spits can turn hard staying at the same altitude; 190s can't sustain more then 2 pass on the same Spitfire. This is the reason they are really good air superiority planes (not like the P51s of course because of the fuel issue) but again people don't use it in the way they should.

I was scared of moment the majority of Spitfire pilots were to learn this: luckly in 4.10 Spitfires are not the amazing things they were in 4.09. Finally I can take a SpitV in a climbing contest knowing that in thin air their energy management can be affected too!

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by Flanker35M

S!

This thread delivers. Can't wait to see the amount of whinery when IL-2:CoD is out. Then each and every armchair combat ace pilot X or Y is like a kid with a lollipop pulled out of their mouth when their fabled plane does not act like a X-Wing or TIE. This same crap discussion about Spit vs 109/Allied vs Axis has waged on since first flight sims from stone age and only between the GAMERS..or should use word lamers. This pathetic horde of "know it all sim pilots" are like kids on a sandbox arguing who's daddy has biggest epeen. And of course everyone here knows better how it was and should be, than the real vets, for sure. We would beat them vets all if given chance..right? This never ends..and you still wonder why no-one wants to make a flight sim?

I bet every "Mr.Pompom" / "Herr Bratwurst", depending on color orientation blue/red, would whine even given a chance fly the real plane and it would not fly up to expectations Please, bring on CoD and the new evolution of whinery

+1