Realistic pilots?

[Sven]

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

True, fatigue is different for every person, but we also have a standard blackout model for everyone in the game. In RL people react differently to G-forces, but blackout is modeled in the game and no one complaines about it. Why should it be different with fatigue?

Yes that's true as well, but I do believe differences in that are quite small. Still to determine a good fatigue system is too difficult and time consuming to saddle TD up with it. Like a previous post, also fear, adrenaline courage, everything has to do with your fatigue.

Say, You are in an airplane and suddenly you see a fancy enemy coming in on your tail, but you seem to be a tad tired, oh well that's a pity, now I can't move that quick. Of course not, adrenaline rushes in your brain, you slam the stick to the side and when you see the enemy passing in front of you, you engage him and follow him, you start shooting, is it going to hit?, c'mon! c'mon! You will not get tired, it's a natural saver that adrenaline stuff.

The same you find in sports, if you're in a duel, even when very tired and on the egde of turning the odds there's a big chance of you losing, you will forget that you're tired and engage the opponent.

[Seeker]

I just can't wait to see how the red/blue whiners tie themselves up in knots trying to argue thier case while scrupuously trying to avoid inferences to ethnicity or master race..

[ElAurens]

Hence this idea needs to be shelved, permanently.

[MikkOwl]

I strongly support the idea of improving the pilot simulation. At least on a physical level (mental is probably not possible). It moved up to a certain point long time ago and since then there has been barely any improvement.

It is an uncomplicated task. Some kind of system to relay to the gamer how affected from fatigue one is (can be a breathing sound, indicator or graphical effect). Then the effects of fatigue itself: even just temporarily reduced strength or being more prone to greying/blacking out would be a big step forward.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

I strongly support the idea of improving the pilot simulation. At least on a physical level (mental is probably not possible). It moved up to a certain point long time ago and since then there has been barely any improvement.

It is an uncomplicated task. Some kind of system to relay to the gamer how affected from fatigue one is (can be a breathing sound, indicator or graphical effect). Then the effects of fatigue itself: even just temporarily reduced strength or being more prone to greying/blacking out would be a big step forward.

Physical and mental are very closely related as I already pointed out, one cannot do without the other, you could take the whole mental part out, of course, but what are you trying to model then? Inhumane behaviour?

And yes coen, it really is a pedometer, if you said that in science class you get a from the professor.

[WTE_Galway]

The game should ship with a mini-gym that measures the players physical strength, stamina, reaction times and flexibility.

Then those personalized parameters can be used to tailor the fitness level of the pilot in game to those of the actual player.

One substantial advantage of this is it will get geeky sim players out jogging, lifting weights and doing workouts to get their fitness up to scratch before a big online matchup.

[Sven]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

The game should ship with a mini-gym that measures the players physical strength, stamina, reaction times and flexibility.

Then those personalized parameters can be used to tailor the fitness level of the pilot in game to those of the actual player.

One substantial advantage of this is it will get geeky sim players out jogging, lifting weights and doing workouts to get their fitness up to scratch before a big online matchup.

You just solved the 'PC gaming is unhealthy' problem hahaha , way to go for futuristic sims!

[Ernst]

The idea is not bat but such fatigue system should be implemented carefully. I do not agree a stamina bar in my screen, what a immersion killer.

[Furio]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

I strongly support the idea of improving the pilot simulation...

It is an uncomplicated task. Some kind of system to relay to the gamer how affected from fatigue one is (can be a breathing sound, indicator or graphical effect). Then the effects of fatigue itself: even just temporarily reduced strength or being more prone to greying/blacking out would be a big step forward.

On the contrary, IMHO it is very complicated. Of course, you can lower the onset of blacking out, but how do you model a “reduced strength”? By slowing down control input? By limiting the amount of stick or pedal displacement? By increasing force feedback?
And how can you slow down quick reflexes?

[JG4_Helofly]

Originally Posted by Furio

On the contrary, IMHO it is very complicated. Of course, you can lower the onset of blacking out, but how do you model a “reduced strength”? By slowing down control input? By limiting the amount of stick or pedal displacement? By increasing force feedback?
And how can you slow down quick reflexes?

In a way, we already have "fatigue" in game. When the pilot is wounded, full deflection of the control surfaces is no longer possible.

I agree with you Furio. It would not be easy to implement such a system. That's why it would have to be simplified like the "wounded model".
For exemple: After several minutes of dogfight and high G manoeuvres, the pilot would progressively loose some percent of strength resulting in less rudder deflection. There would be a lower limit. Say 75% of total strength. After some time flying "normal" maoeuvers, the strength would go up again.

The idea I had behind all this was not to try simulating the human body and his brain to the last detail. The idea is to make aircombat less extreme and therefore more realistic. People would start to think more before engaging. They would gently climb after the dive and not try to slow from 700 to 300 km/h in one hard immelmann turn in order to get quickly behind the enemy flying low and slow. At the moment, the only limit is the structural limit of the airplane, and people fly accordingly.

But of course, it would not be perfect and arbitrary, but at least we would see more interesting combat with people having a chance to fight in inferior planes against better planes with pilots who only know "stick back!"