Orcs on the March thread

[atlatea]

I might have to try the new patch if that is true.

Because i never complete even one composite set except the dragon toy and a ring (which is also a reward from defeating scrounger) .

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Still struggling. Been so long since i've used a Mage warrior and my damage spells are just not enough. No Phantom and No Resurrect. I think my army composition is wrong tbh, probably didn't dig up enough chests early on. mages,inq,druids,RD and Rune Mages/cyclops are my army. It's a shame RM are so weak, they really should cause more damage as they cost 15000

Might start again tbh as it's frustrating atm

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Still struggling. Been so long since i've used a Mage warrior and my damage spells are just not enough. No Phantom and No Resurrect. I think my army composition is wrong tbh, probably didn't dig up enough chests early on. mages,inq,druids,RD and Rune Mages/cyclops are my army. It's a shame RM are so weak, they really should cause more damage as they cost 15000

Might start again tbh as it's frustrating atm

The Ancient Phoenix and Dragon of Chaos summoner style only really STILL works (up to Reha so far, but they can withstand a few hits from Ktahu.), if you have Belt of the Victor. Without it, ugh, you start losing the mojo around Elon. Still doable though.

I'm telling you, direct damage spells is NOT the way to go for mages in Impossible Disable, debuff, distract, is key. Summon is good too if used properly. That said, a well placed Ancient Phoenix does about the equivalent of up to 18 flaming arrows for the cost of 7 flaming arrows, draws aggro, provides a tank, burns up to 3 enemies, and can RESURRECT a red dragon. Why would anyone ever cast flaming arrow again with that sort of power is beyond me.

All mages have HORRIBLE HORRIBLE damage per leadership. Rune Mages are not meant for damage. They are there to distract the enemy with Illusions or to Sheep the enemy.

If you don't have 17+ magic runes, and 20ish mind runes sitting around, I wouldn't bother using them at all. A shame you don't have Phantom though, but I did ok by splitting the Rune Mages into two stacks to double the odds of sheeping.

Can you find any other damage dealer unit in your mix? Druids and inquisitors are so weak.

You do want a high initiative unit so you can get the jump on the enemy, even if that unit doesn't attack immediately. I guess reds are somewhat fast though.

If you can find Black Dragons, use them with the reds. Rune Mages can revive Black Dragons.

You want to take advantage of shoot-through-no-retaliation that dragons can do.

You can use similar tactics with the Ancient Phoenix and Dragon of Chaos (have Ancient Phoenix hit the weak enemy next to a strong enemy to get a cheap hit).

You might also be at the stage where you need to throw up Ball of Lightning a bit more for added offensive power, I know I forgot to use this in the mid game.

You can use Pygmy, Helplessness, Oil Mist to help hurt the enemy more. You might find it does more equivalent damage per mana than Flaming Arrow.

Also, consider raising your rage to increase rage generation speed if you got so many summoners.

[atlatea]

Regarding set, i think at least 2 or 3 set always completed for most people in CW.

But even if you don't have the set, another item that compensate for it usually 90% spawn. In my case, whenever i don't have scale set, slipery cuiras and twinkling always spawn, especially slippery, and both of them often spawn together.

Though i never complete even composite set other than dragon toy (just once), and scrounger ring (twice).

Maybe it's just luck.

Regarding mage, direct damage spells is worth if you manage to at least score 50 int, best if you have 70 int, +spell dmg arties, destruction 3, just cast 2 black hole/geyser and most enemies at impossible will eat dirt. Or if you like, stack astral resistance and mana (minimum of 90 mana), have red/green dragon, then cast armageddon, then time back, most enemies should be very weakened, another armageddon will instantly wipe them and you incur loss.

There are no class that can win a fight in just 2 or 3 turn without losses except mage offensive spell caster type.

Downside is you need to scan your saves to achieve very high int and you need to rest after a battle to recover your mana. But really, winning battles in impossible in 2 or 3 turn is awesome.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Regarding set, i think at least 2 or 3 set always completed for most people in CW.

But even if you don't have the set, another item that compensate for it usually 90% spawn. In my case, whenever i don't have scale set, slipery cuiras and twinkling always spawn, especially slippery, and both of them often spawn together.

Though i never complete even composite set other than dragon toy (just once), and scrounger ring (twice).

Maybe it's just luck.

Regarding mage, direct damage spells is worth if you manage to at least score 50 int, best if you have 70 int, +spell dmg arties, destruction 3, just cast 2 black hole/geyser and most enemies at impossible will eat dirt. Or if you like, stack astral resistance and mana (minimum of 90 mana), have red/green dragon, then cast armageddon, then time back, most enemies should be very weakened, another armageddon will instantly wipe them and you incur loss.

There are no class that can win a fight in just 2 or 3 turn without losses except mage offensive spell caster type.

Downside is you need to scan your saves to achieve very high int and you need to rest after a battle to recover your mana. But really, winning battles in impossible in 2 or 3 turn is awesome.

I suppose. I guess I hate the waiting afterwards. I can try it again, as this one saved game I have has tons of intellect!

But, for the hard battles, dealing 9-10K damage to every single stack still doesn't cut it.

Actually, my Warrior can win the Impossible Battles with smoother end game play, which is what made me so sad that mages couldn't do the smooth game play with no waiting! With the warrior, I would have to intentionally delay finishing the battle just so I can pick up the treasure chests.

I mean, put it this way. I've tried doing the Black Hole Blitz against Scrounger. Did NOT fare so well. Double Pump Geyser, no go either. Pygmy Black Hole... poo.

But, I didn't do the invisible trick though! If I do though, then the raw offense is merely just icing on the cake.

And any battle where the 9-10K damage per stack would have won the battle could have easily been replicated with the Warrior Ranged Army, with zero mana recovery required.

@King's Bounty Hunter
Is it the Power of the Horde? I think it depends on how many remaining Porc units are on the field, and it deals magic damage. (He has another astral attack one, but I doubt he could deal that much damage with just 2). Yeah, Blood shaman are nasty guys and in some ways harder to deal with than the Goblin Shaman since I hate bringing a tank up that close to the Blood shaman with Target. I really hate how Cyclops are so hard to recover, not even Rune Mages can do it.


@Mandea
I wonder if you read my entire post. If you are really an engineer, it surprises me you don't have more test trials to prove your case. I only brought up the Scale Set case to show that things are truly random for both good cases and bad. All I said was

- "maybe it is true" and that I need to do more tests to confirm
- I can't find DG's post on it, maybe it was another member who knew the drop rates and how to find them, which would conclusively decide -- e.g. it might actually be in the crossworld's world game editor.
- If after 70 games, I wasn't able to get certain items, clearly, it is possible to find a good item in the 71st run, as others have completed it too. e.g. randomness/luck/personal experience is not really a measure of the probability distribution.
- I've had bad item distribution for 15 games in a row before.
- Crossworld 1.3.0 improved Set Completion for me, I tested quite a few games here, possibly 50+.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

I suppose. I guess I hate the waiting afterwards. I can try it again, as this one saved game I have has tons of intellect!

But, for the hard battles, dealing 9-10K damage to every single stack still doesn't cut it.

Actually, my Warrior can win the Impossible Battles with smoother end game play, which is what made me so sad that mages couldn't do the smooth game play with no waiting! With the warrior, I would have to intentionally delay finishing the battle just so I can pick up the treasure chests.

I mean, put it this way. I've tried doing the Black Hole Blitz against Scrounger. Did NOT fare so well. Double Pump Geyser, no go either. Pygmy Black Hole... poo.

But, I didn't do the invisible trick though! If I do though, then the raw offense is merely just icing on the cake.

And any battle where the 9-10K damage per stack would have won the battle could have easily been replicated with the Warrior Ranged Army, with zero mana recovery required.

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun lol

Same. I'm finding using the Mage a real grind as direct magic damage isn't oo good atm

Thanks for all the info guys

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Doesn't sound like you're having much fun lol

Same. I'm finding using the Mage a real grind as direct magic damage isn't oo good atm

Thanks for all the info guys

Actually it is really strange. The Mage Summoner build is surprisingly very smooth, in some ways more smooth than a Warrior.

If the enemy has any level 4s, I will almost definitely sheep most of them by the end of the battle. Dual Rune Mages blasting away, at 30% chance to sheep someone, it gets pretty bad for the enemy.

Also, this lets me
a) dig up 3 chests
b) use the 16 rage for 19 mana exchange
c) resurrect units at my leisure

If the enemy has level 5s, I have to blitz the living daylights out of them with my Summons and debuffs. Still doable. If there are dragons, I got the Shield of Reknos (AND there is an Eye of the Dragon, but alas, I can't go back to Debir, stupid quasi-speed runs).

Once the level 5s are down, or under control, I repeat the dig/mana restoration process.

Now, the Warrior builds I do, while they are DEADLY fast in raw combat, leaves far less margin for error.

The problem is, while I obliterate really fast, it leaves far less time to dig up chests and I almost always have to cast Phantom for the Royal Griffins, Turn Back Time, or some Debuff (Pygmy, Helplessness, or Plague!). If I have a breather, I can drop Dragon Dive, but I am almost always pumping the 25 for 25 mana accelerator.

Sometimes I will barely have enough mana to do the resurrection as needed. It really depends. As a mage, it is more of an inconvenience, since my Summoner Mage build almost ALWAYS has max mana after the battle.

See, the warrior can afford to start off with no mana, since Bloodthirst will give him enough rage to start the Mana Accelerator machine again.

That said, it is possible to do direct damage, but it usually requires a nifty trick like Invisible Emerald Green Dragon. Early on though, Black Dragons are great to run around while you do direct damage. I mutated this stategy to have a helpful friend, Ancient Phoenix and his side kick, Dragon fo Chaos though.

In the Wizard Tower, I did a lot of direct damage too. I'm not there with my Summon Army yet, but I don't think they will survive easily.

Oh, as an aside, unlike the Warrior, my particular Mage build seems verry weak against Archdemons.

I'm not looking forward to facing Samman and I ran from the Archdemon stacks in Montero's Caves.

Also, I haven't fought Scrounger in a while since I mentally hit a strange block where I immediately proceed to try to beat the game or give up on my current game due to repetition (or perceived failure in my battle plan). I don't think fighting her will be fun either.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Veteran orcs just ran around my trap lol jesus christ give me a break ha ha

direct line to my army and he does that as if he knew the trap was there!

Marvelous

[atlatea]

I guess that Scrounger is an exception to all classes, not only mage, most of the time, scrounger need unusual tactic.

Pain mirror also seems to be the bane of archdemon, sometimes pain mirror
is your best friend if you got hit by that halving attack.

Regarding mage,

Well, 8k dmg per turn to all unit is already more than sufficient.

When playing direct damage mage, the damage spells are mean to much much soften your enemies, it's a no brainer opening. Then your unit finish them off. Damage spells won't do 80%-90 % the damage, it usually do 60%-65%, sometimes 70%-75%. It never means to be the winning button, it's just there to help you win. However compared to other mage type, all you do is just blast and blast them first, then do anything you want later, unlike other type of mage, other type of mage need more thinking.

Some suggestion, try most elves unit, it works best with direct damage mage. Your elves will crowd control all your enemies, effectively delaying them while you're having fun dooming them with your mass destruction spells.

Summoner mage have more efficient control to mana, however you still need to think, while damage mage is pure no brainer once you have very high int and the right unit composition.

Main problem with pure summoner mage is they rely heavily on fire damage. Damage mage can deal with any kind of threat. With the right units, it offer more versality in exchange for mana efficiency.

In case of warrior 100% ranged crit, direct damage mage slightly wins in term of resurrecting and damage wise (unless the warrior use goblins) at early turn. However on longer turn, warrior win, because mage will surely run ouf of mana if she keeps casting mass damage spells. But versality once again favor mage.

Why don't try hybrid mage?

I've tried this, mage with very high int, 50-70 ish, minimum is 50, unit is mostly elves and humans, reason? crowd control is caster best friend whether it is mage or paladin, having both summoner and destruction at lv 3, play style is damage spell and summoner, it depends on the situation.

From my experience, it's the most versatile of all mage, and probably the most powerful one. The only downside is you need insane amount of magic crystal

Oh, as an aside, unlike the Warrior, my particular Mage build seems verry weak against Archdemons.

I'm not looking forward to facing Samman and I ran from the Archdemon stacks in Montero's Caves.

Try pain mirror, i was once losing hope againts archdemon in montero caves, then i consider pain mirror as my last resort, and it works, especially if they do halving attack.

Honestly i didn't even think that pain mirror was that useful.

[Minecontrol]

Try pain mirror, i was once losing hope againts archdemon in montero caves, then i consider pain mirror as my last resort, and it works, especially if they do halving attack.

It's especially good against Orc Veterans too because of their massive attack and also their tendency to dodge attacks themselves (but no 'dodging' the spell) normally making disposing of them awkward.