Ethics of pilots fighting for the sides in WWII

[moilami]

Oh yeah, and if someone ever begins to complain or judge me liking combat flight sims I will just laugh and say my momma never bought enough toy guns for me when I was a kid


Edit: Yes, that is a true story

[Richie]

Originally Posted by moilami

Thanks of the videos Richie. I went to buy ice scream and watched them. It is good for one to be able to enjoy things like art and simple food stuff. So don't laugh at the ice scream

I however liked much more of the "yes, we are aces" video. Air warfare is not emotional stuff for me. It is about survival of us vs them. There is no time nor place for emotions.

Having been said that, I liked actually The Battle of Britain video in how it moved the actors from movie to real war. It was a clever move. A lot could be written about that.

I'm glad you liked My "Yes We Are Aces" video moilami

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by engarde

Might as well post a question as to the Boer soldiers attitudes.

Believe it or not, the ethical issues surrounding the Boer War are STILL controversial and newsworthy 120 years later, especially in Australia ....



http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/nat...-1225950408570
http://www.smh.com.au/world/british-...112-17pqf.html
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2...12/3065155.htm

[Theshark888]

Originally Posted by Wutz

I am not saying it is good what happened but I can understand them.

These are just incidents of civilians and semi-combatants going a bit off the deep end. No judgements, just some interesting articles that I have seen.

No need for you to get mad, things like this happened on all sides and this was a long time ago. I have relatives that fought and died on both sides in WW2; from an Uncle Flak gunner killed in France to my wife's grandfather who was a Polish partisan killed near Bialystok. My mother was a teenager who had to hide in the woods to avoid Allied bombing and another Uncle was wounded in the Battle of the Bulge while serving in the Red-Ball-Express.

The point is most of us would have fought for our own countries and what they were told and believed in during the war. Very few of us would refuse to fight for our country or side with a "foreign" or "enemy" government. Look at some of the passion on this board for a computer game...what would the reaction be if life and death were really involved???? There is not anything to prove at this point in time...only that these types of events have occured and should not happen again

[Wutz]

No I was not mad just a bit irritated, but seems you have a simular background!
My moms dad was in the red army defending the fortress Brest-Litowsk where he fell at the age of 23. My dad´s dad was drafted at the age of 42 because he said something against the nazi party and was sent to the eastern front. He was taken prisoner near Smolensk, and first came home in the early fifties a cripple. I just wanted stated that things like that could have happened anywhere. I am certain if a bomber crew came down right after the Coventry bombing they would have most likely goten a simular reception.
After all one should not forget the civilian population was often a target during bombing raids, so I can very well understand the reactions of those people. I know I would not have very many friendly feelings for some one who tried to kill me. That those crew members where serving their country is in this case not really in the center of attention, as for those people, those crew members where the ones that dropped the bombs so they are responsible, reguardless of who gave the orders. As you certainly will agree there is a bit of a differance if military is fighting military, but when it is civilians on the recieving end, people then think a bit differantly.

[Theshark888]

Originally Posted by Wutz

No I was not mad just a bit irritated, but seems you have a simular background!

Yes we do Wutz! I was lucky enough (or unlucky) to get the war stories from both side of the War.

I also had an Uncle captured by the Soviets in winter of 1941 and only able to come back home to Austria in 1955. Another was stationed in Yugoslavia for most of the war fighting partisans...lots of gruesome stories from him! Another Uncle was 15 years old and fighting near Vienna, when the officer of his company gave him his horse to escape the Russians because he was the youngest and to have someone to survive and remember them. Also have a story about one of my Aunt's who was outside yelling and trying to throw rocks at Allied fighter-bombers attacking their train station. Had an Uncle driving LCM's in the Pacific and another on destroyers fighting against U-Boats.

With this background I always had an interest in History and World War 2. Not to pass judgement or to have some kind of burning hatred, but a true interest in the battles, weapons, etc. It's impossible to try to pass judgement on people and things that happened 20 years ago, let alone 70 years ago. Each country has its own ideas about what really happened in WW2 and the following generations also have their own views. You can see that from the different reactions on this Board and how people try to stick up or villify other countries actions from 70 years ago!

[Wutz]

Yes you are right Theshark888!
There is no way to judge as no one has the full picture, only fragments.
I only have a bit of a bad feeling when hearing stories of civilians that got into some really bad situations without a chance to defend themselves. One of my grandmothers, even decades after the war would when a thunderstorm came up, darken her whole place, as she felt the thunder reminded her very much of nightly bombing raids she remembered very well.
I only got to hear a few stories as I only got to know my grandfather for half a year, and then he told very little as my grandmother was against him telling war stories. More detailed stuff I found out a lot later when I contacted the WAST office which kept all the surviving records of former Wehrmachts personel.
From my other grandfather I have only a few pictures and some small stories thats all. All the rest is from my parents who where kids during the war.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Richie

I'm glad you liked My "Yes We Are Aces" video moilami

Yeah, it was very cool. I never knew though it was made by you.

[moilami]

Originally Posted by Richie

I thought so

I love this site especially the Stigler stuff.

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/

Also I have to put that video up so these guys can see what real aces look like.

I don't know what the original topic was about, but like someone said it is better to learn from history than to judge from history.

As for what about IL-2 the game, well, your video concludes the discussion better than good. So bump for the video! I would by the way love to be a Luftwaffe pilot right away now, but oh well, I have some unfinished business. Lets play something for that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZHxmzwxtLA

[JG53Frankyboy]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

Well the reference to the photo said:

Bf 109 E 4 "White 5" of 3rd Gruppe/JG 53 (53rd Fighter wing, possibly based in Guernsey), shot down over Margate, Kent on 6th September 1940. The pilot was Unteroffizier Schulte and the aircraft crash landed near Manston airfield.

the order to remove the "PikAs" from the cowling and replace it with a red band arrived end of July 1940. This order was for the whole Wing: Stab/, I./, II./ & III./JG53.
The "PikAs" on the cowling was officialy reintroduced at the 20.November 1940, officially to honor the 500.Victory of the JG53 - propably "helpfull" was the the JG53 got a new Commander 10.October ............

the overpainting of the Swastika was only common in the III./JG53 (7.,8.,9.Squadron) for a short time during 1940. ITs CO protested with that against the bad words Göring put against the fighterpilots.
in September the III./JG53 was already based in Le Touqet , Luftflotte 2.