Pony talk

[JtD]

Apply full rudder and check if you can measure a difference between the B and the D. This is where the slightly reduced length would show. It has no effect on turning.

[Blackdog_kt]

Wouldn't it also apply in banking turns?

If the plane is banked and the stick pulled, the elevators are "working" on the same plane of motion that the rudder affects when the wings are level (the plane that's parallel to the horizon), so wouldn't it exhibit a similar effect?

[Tempest123]

This ***could*** explain why total blackouts occur very suddenly in the D model, too much elevator for a shorter fuselage. This is only if the length bug is present in the FM though.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

This ***could*** explain why total blackouts occur very suddenly in the D model, too much elevator for a shorter fuselage. This is only if the length bug is present in the FM though.

I think the blackout happens suddenly because the Mustang (and Tempest) can pull very hard very quickly and cause a blackout. Most other fighter types have an ineffective elevator at those speeds so the ability to suddenly pull isn't there.

In some ways it's easier to hold back on the stick in the Bf109K-4 as it sails towards the ground not doing much of anything than it is in a Tempest to pull back hard and both blackout the pilot and rip the wings off

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by IceFire

I think the blackout happens suddenly because the Mustang (and Tempest) can pull very hard very quickly and cause a blackout. Most other fighter types have an ineffective elevator at those speeds so the ability to suddenly pull isn't there.

In some ways it's easier to hold back on the stick in the Bf109K-4 as it sails towards the ground not doing much of anything than it is in a Tempest to pull back hard and both blackout the pilot and rip the wings off

This is true, and I'd rather have the second option than the first one, at least the screen would be black for 20 seconds in the air, instead of forever as I plowed into the ground

Just flew some very successful A to A combats in the P-51D, def. a great ship, so if there is a length bug in the FM it's not holding the plane back too much. As for a concrete way of testing between models I can't think of one that isn't affected by many other factors other than around 1 foot of fuselage. If it is a simple matter of correcting a clearly wrong number in a FM file than I hope it is addressed, but I have no idea how the FM's are made for Il2.

I think Oleg said years ago in response to a FM debate that the problem was between the guy's computer and his chair So I'll stop beating this dead horse (pony).

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Just flew some very successful A to A combats in the P-51D, def. a great ship, so if there is a length bug in the FM it's not holding the plane back too much. As for a concrete way of testing between models I can't think of one that isn't affected by many other factors other than around 1 foot of fuselage. If it is a simple matter of correcting a clearly wrong number in a FM file than I hope it is addressed, but I have no idea how the FM's are made for Il2.

It's also possible the fuselage data was deliberately "tweaked" to eliminate some other issue with the p51d. No way of knowing.

I would be inclined to pass the evidence about the incorrect fuselage length on to TD and leave it to them to fiddle with.

[IceFire]

Indeed there is nothing that seriously impedes the Mustangs ability to fight in-game. Sure there are a few people who expect too much but once you get past that and focus on the strengths... it's an incredible fighter. When flown as a team the Mustang turns much more powerful as it's speed, dive, and visibility are great attributes.

How many of you make regular use of the K-14 gyro gun sight?

[JtD]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

I would be inclined to pass the evidence about the incorrect fuselage length on to TD and leave it to them to fiddle with.

You're too late.

[Romanator21]

How many of you make regular use of the K-14 gyro gun sight?

I tried, but it's effectively useless in game. In servers which allow outside view, everyone knows where you are, and simply pulls tight turns when you get close, and the sight can't track the target (F6th-sense? )

In closed pit as well as open pit, pilots yank their airplanes around too quickly compared to what an average pilot would be able to do. It goes back to the joystick debate - we practically are in control of massless, fly-by-wire aircraft. Inexperienced pilots often just made shallow-banked turns, unable and unwilling to push their planes to the limit, and hardly made an ACM maneuver. In the BoB, experienced Bf-109 pilots were out-turning rookie Spitfire pilots who were afraid to do anything more than make a shallow turn. This is what the K-14 was good for, and made it that much easier for allied pilots to put shots on target the first time they ever pulled the trigger.

I suggest to download the Il-2 Demo which is still on the net and use Eric Brown's input settings. Remember, he tested and flew numerous aircraft during and after WWII, including Spits, P-51s, FW-190s, and so on. He flew IL-2 when it still had the old FM, and so his settings work better in that game, than in 1946.

Use his settings and get a feel for how maneuverable the aircraft now are, and consider that this would probably be the best you could hope to wring-out of the plane in an actual dogfight (or modern-day air show ).

Pitch 0, 1, 3, 7, 9, 14, 18, 23, 27, 33
Roll 0, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 12, 17
Yaw 0, 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 8, 11, 14, 16

I don't think Eric Brown ever got the chance to enjoy Il-2 after it received an updated FM system, but if he did, it would be interesting to see what inputs he would propose then.

[Tempest123]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Indeed there is nothing that seriously impedes the Mustangs ability to fight in-game. Sure there are a few people who expect too much but once you get past that and focus on the strengths... it's an incredible fighter. When flown as a team the Mustang turns much more powerful as it's speed, dive, and visibility are great attributes.

How many of you make regular use of the K-14 gyro gun sight?

The K-14 works well for bombers I find, but for fighters it's usually too difficult to setup the sight before your opponent evades you.
For example against a Fw-190, you first slide the notch to "fw-190" on the sight, then adjust the reticle to match his wingspan, but since he's likely all over the sky, I find this isn't worth the extra hassle. One small thing I wish we could to was to map "adjust sight distance" or whatever one adjusts the wingspan to an axis like joystick twist, so that you don't have to keep pressing keys. But I think the fixed sight is probably just as effective anyways.