Interview with WWII reconaissance pilot

[swiss]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

Resumption of the draft in Germany breaking the 100K army limit
Reoccupying the Rhineland Job for the French?
Ansclhuss with Austria Austria was was part of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation for the preceding 500 years.
Breakup of Czechoslovakia You mean "NOT" break them up? Munich Agreement
German Non-Agression pact with Soviet Union Stalin was ready(and had the intention) to invade Germany, they were just faster.
Invasion of Poland Too late. The German Army was already in full bloom

If France and Great Britain would have taken decisive action at any point of these events, Germany would have collapsed and the European side of World War 2 would have been averted. This would include a reconnaisance in force across the Rhine as soon as Poland was attacked.
What about the British Expedition Korps?
Of course this has more to do with France, since they are connected to the continent and had the land army to do this! LOLOLOLOL
It remains to be seen what Stalin would have done with no Nazi Germany next to him also?! See above
If Japan was still to be foolish and attack the USA at Pearl Harbor the entire weight of the US military (along with the Allies) would have been focused on Imperial Japan---no 75%-25% Euro/Asia split. It would have collapsed much more quickly then it did saving 100's of thousands of deaths.
I have to remember you that the war with Japan was your own fault - and had nothing to do with Hitler on the other side of the planet
I am just of the belief that sometimes it is better to do what needs to be done instead of discussing and talking about it and waiting for someone else to do it. When Germany reoccupied the Rhineland France and Great Britain should have invoked the Versailles Treaty, immediately mobilized and given it an ultimatum. You need an capable Army for that, neither France nor the UK had one of this size and equipment.

My opinion is not meant to be disrespectful of the lives lost by our Allies in the fight against tyrannny...but I still think that Soviet pilot was wrong and deserves to be reprimanded or lose his wings

You can't take his wings. After all he just executed an order, you can't punish him for that.
I would have done the sortie too - but, unfortunately, miss all the bullets....

[lobosrul]

Originally Posted by swiss

If Japan was still to be foolish and attack the USA at Pearl Harbor the entire weight of the US military (along with the Allies) would have been focused on Imperial Japan---no 75%-25% Euro/Asia split. It would have collapsed much more quickly then it did saving 100's of thousands of deaths.
I have to remember you that the war with Japan was your own fault - and had nothing to do with Hitler on the other side of the planet

How exactly was the war with Japan our fault (I assume you mean the US when you say "our") again? We refused to supply them for their conquest (rape) of China. So thats grounds for a war? And yes the European conflict was relative. Japan would never have dared attack the allies and the US without them also being in a war with Germany. Then again they didn't actually know for sure that attack the US would bring them into war with Germany. It was Hitler that declared war on the US a few days after Pearl Harbor.

Originally Posted by swiss

Breakup of Czechoslovakia You mean "NOT" break them up? Munich Agreement

He meant the annexation of the Sudentenland that was allowed under appeasement. Czechoslovakia was certainly broken up.

Originally Posted by swiss

If France and Great Britain would have taken decisive action at any point of these events, Germany would have collapsed and the European side of World War 2 would have been averted. This would include a reconnaisance in force across the Rhine as soon as Poland was attacked.
What about the British Expedition Korps?

He meant if a combined French and English force had attacked immediately after Germany's invasion of Poland in september 1939, instead of waiting for Germany to invade the low countries in spring 1940. Germany only left a very small force guarding their western border during the Polish invasion. There's considerable historical debate on whether or not the western allies could have defeated Germany right then. IMO, yes they could have had they been preparing for an offense beginning in 1938. Instead they still thought of a war with Germany in the trench warfare style of WW1.

Originally Posted by swiss

German Non-Agression pact with Soviet Union Stalin was ready(and had the intention) to invade Germany, they were just faster.

Thats very much a matter for debate on whether the Soviets would have invaded Germany eventually or not. Its not at all clear what Stalins eventual plans were. It is however very certain that the Soviets were completely unprepared for war in Summer 1941.

[swiss]

Originally Posted by lobosrul

How exactly was the war with Japan our fault (I assume you mean the US when you say "our") again? We refused to supply them for their conquest (rape) of China. So thats grounds for a war? And yes the European conflict was relative. Japan would never have dared attack the allies and the US without them also being in a war with Germany. Then again they didn't actually know for sure that attack the US would bring them into war with Germany. It was Hitler that declared war on the US a few days after Pearl Harbor.

What did the US expect Nippon to do after they cut off their oil supply?
Wasn't your business anyway.
Oil is always a good reason to start a war.
What was Gulf War two and three about?

He meant the annexation of the Sudentenland that was allowed under appeasement.

That's because it always was German soil before, therefore I would call it just a reintegration.

IMO, yes they could have had they been preparing for an offense beginning in 1938. Instead they still thought of a war with Germany in the trench warfare style of WW1.

They should have listened to Churchill, huh?

Thats very much a matter for debate on whether the Soviets would have invaded Germany eventually or not. Its not at all clear what Stalins eventual plans were. It is however very certain that the Soviets were completely unprepared for war in Summer 1941.

It's very clear what Stalin wanted. What happened after WW2?

[Splitter]

I think a combined French and British offensive early in the war was not really feasible. Let's face it, the French military leadership was somewhere between incompetent and..well...worse than useless. Britain was not on enough of a war footing to wage offensive operations, they just had not prepared themselves for the coming storm adequately. The US would have been no help as we were sitting nice and snug across the vastness of the Atlantic.

The people and leadership of what eventually became known as the "Allies" were divided. A very few wanted war. A segment thought war was inevitable. About half wanted to do anything possible to avoid war including ignoring what Hitler was up to in Europe. To the latter group, the "crimes" Hitler was committing against other countries was not reason enough to shed blood.

The populaces did not unite until war came to their doorsteps.

There is a rumor that Roosevelt saw the need to get involved in the war and allowed Pearl Harbor to happen. This rumor is circumstantially validated by the fortuitous absence of US carriers when the attack occurred. Most of us don't think that is true, but it does show that some leaders (and people) saw the war as inevitable and that it was better to go sooner than later (we were already woefully late). What it took for many nations to get involved was a direct threat to their own country.

Splitter

[dduff442]

It's somewhat ironic the depths to which the reputation of France as a martial nation plunged after WWII. France had good commanders but the smug politics of the interwar army meant they couldn't rise to prominence.

Giraud, Bilotte, Juin, Weygand and de Lattre de Tassigny were hardly to be taken lightly, and the performance of the different units varied from pityful to outstanding. After the slaughter of WWI, french people ceased to feel their generals cared about them at all. Having allowed this feeling develop and let the army decline from a broad-based institution representing the nation to an organisation dominated by a narrowly-based reactionary clique, a small number of interwar figures must shoulder the blame for what was an inevitable collapse. Gamelin etc. tore the emotional heart from the French military.

Setting aside "cheese-eating" etc. insults for the pathetic slurs they are, it's worth noting that every US officer that went to France in 1917-18 would have spoken excellent French. Jomini was the dominant figure in 19th Century military thought and the West Point curriculum was modeled on that of St Cyr.

The psychotic, utterly amoral French nobility of the ancièn régime only ever had one virtue: their suicidal courage in battle. They were legendary for centuries even if their countrymen didn't feel so enthusiastic about them.

Broad prejudices go in cycles. At a time when martial virtues were taken to signify moral elevation, the Irish Jacobite emigreés of the 18th Century were granted preference as loyal and brave. There were dozens of them: FM Peter Lacy (Russia), his son FM Franz Moritz (Francis Maurice) Lacy (Austria), FM Von Browne (Austria), Prince Nugent (Austria), a huge number of lesser generals, and Ambrosio (Ambrose) O'Higgins. A century later, their descendants were seen as debased, self-indulgent, stupid and untrustworthy, and were as welcome as plague rats and subject to extreme forms of racism.

The ancient German inferiority complex regarding the French prior to 1870 was no more justified than the sense of moral supremacy they felt afterwards.

[dduff442]

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

If you've got a few minutes read up about the Japanese advance along the Kokoda Track in New Guinea.

A force of anywhere up to 16000 Japanese was defeated by about 2000 Australians because their comanding officer, Brigadier Potts, decided to disobey his orders (fight to the last man!) and stage a fighting withdrawl along the track. By the time the Japanese had got to within sight of Port Moresby thery were incapable of mounting any offensive action.

Just because someone is running away at the moment doesn't mean that their not waiting behind the next tree ready to put a bullet through you. It's called tactics.


Cheers!

One of the outstanding characteristics of German military tradition in fact was the ability to withdraw without disintegrating. A commander lacking confidence tells his men to hold on to the last man. Retreat, however, is an order like any other. Good armies retreat when circumstances demand it and attack when the moment if opportune.

[d165w3ll]

Schoerner's Army Group Centre in Bohemia was still fighting on despite the surrender - and still killing - until 11th May.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Sch%C3%B6rner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive

[swiss]

Originally Posted by dduff442

One of the outstanding characteristics of German military tradition in fact was the ability to withdraw without disintegrating. A commander lacking confidence tells his men to hold on to the last man. Retreat, however, is an order like any other. Good armies retreat when circumstances demand it and attack when the moment if opportune.

Never heard of it - but Prussian allegiance is legendary, and that means to the last man.
Got any links?

Setting aside "cheese-eating"

Actually it's "frog-eating".



sidenote:

[swiss]

Originally Posted by d165w3ll

Schoerner's Army Group Centre in Bohemia was still fighting on despite the surrender - and still killing - until 11th May.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferdinand_Sch%C3%B6rner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prague_Offensive

Ok, what's your point?

We were talking about retreating troops in this thread.

And FYI: That was the newly formed Heeresgruppe-Mitte(25th January 1945), after the original Gruppe A was defeated at the Eastfront.

Never only use Wiki as your only source, that is of course, unless you speak several languages and can cross-check.

[Theshark888]

I did not want to get bogged down in details but from your reply you force me to. Thanks to lobosrul for giving Swiss some more details about what I meant

France could have easily stopped the reoccupation of the Rhineland by advancing to the border or maybe 50 miles into German territory. The French Army was capable of this. At this point in time, the German General staff would have overthrown Hitler and this would have taken care of the Hitler problem. Please notice when the British Expeditionary Force landed in France.

Please research your history of Austria and the relatively new nation of Germany. Better yet, tell an Austrian that he is actually German and see the reaction. There are German speaking areas of Switzerland also...aren't there
Also Mussolini was against this and stopped the Germans from doing this sooner than '38.

Please research the steps taken to breakup Czechoslovakia and how at any point the Allies could have mobilized and stopped this from happening.

I have read all the new information about Stalin invading the Reich but I am not too sure if I believe it. It could have been a feint to keep Hitler in check?! Or Soviet propaganda to explain their terrible showing in 1941 and save Stalin's face!

After the invasion of Poland the Allies did not take any serious ground action against Germany. The Western border was open to an attack by the French Army. Even a WW1 type Army using WW1 tactics!

We cut off the Japanese oil supply because of the invasion of China. Maybe a bit naive but this is how Americans think and still think today. We found ourselves in many situations like this in our history.

You really need to get your facts straight about the size of the combined Allied Armies in 1939 and the size of Germany's. In 1939 Germany was not in a war footing either...this only started in 1943-44. I personally think that the French would have done a lot better in offense than they did in defence!