Rebalancing of tanks needed!

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Evilsausage

Well i have heard the Penetrations will be changed in the expansions but to tell the truth i kinda like the penetration as it is.
Since the game doesnt have real life weapon ranges. They had to scale down the penetration accordingly to the range aswell. Like 10 meter = 100 meters etc..
Also do we really want King Tigers to become even better? Since people are already whining that they are OP.


Then again havent played Assault squad. The penetration changes might be better then it is now.

I agree simply throwing in realistic numbers, penetrations and ranges for the vehicles will not make the game more fun as long the maps do not support the range acordingly. Thoug playing eventualy on maps with 20km distances might not be the best part well not yet who knows in a few years what will come. But for now it will be just more frustrating for anyone not playing Germans. Hands down they had the most powerfull anti tank guns in service which could without much issues destroy almost any vehicle even with long range.

But it is nice to hear that they eventualy plan to tweak it here a bit cause it always feels strange to have the SU 100 for example get pretty close to score a sucesfull hit on medium tanks already. Or same for the Jagdpanther and most important the Nashorn is almost completely useless that way. It will be almost always spoted before you can get a shoot and as soon you do shoot and miss or dont destroy the target with your first shoot its toast. Not very usefull for a tank hunter. Particuilarly situations where you can get a clear shoot to the side of the vehicle should show much more effect. Its already hard enough to get in the flank of the enemy. Why even punished further with it that you have to spend sometimes 3 or 4 shoots before you can bring the target down ... of course I am talking about a hit not a miss. To many times you see shoots do nothing even when they hit. And a T34 should realy have no issue to penetrate the Panthers side. Not even the 76 should have here already issues.

[Evilsausage]

Thing is if we change the weapon ranges alot of other stuff has to be changed aswell. Like longer view distance for all the units and also all the maps need to become bigger.
A map like Workshop is already very smal and you can shoot through a large part of it.
Fields of Honor Mod Has a longer range on all the equipment, it was cool in a way but can't really say the gameplay got much better.
Be Greatfull MoW dosn't got CoH weapon ranges


But i have to agree about the 50 cals and DKSHs.
Had a game where a King tiger Assaulted my IS-3.
Knowing that the king tiger could't get killed frontaly it moved very close in for the kill on my detracked IS-3. So i starded firing my DKSH detracking both tracks and causing the KT to turn as it was moving, Showing its side to my IS-3.
Then i could just simply shoot the KT in the side. Hillarious stuff.

Anyway 50 cals and DKSHs maybe should have abit lower penetration at long ranges...and less effectivness vs Tracks.

[Crni vuk]

realisticaly speaking those heavy machineguns should have almost zero chance of detracking vehicles. Well medium and heavy tanks at least.

[KnightFandragon]

Exactly, those heavy's should outrange the 30cals and should beable to punch through walls and cover with a decent amount of rounds but not so easily be able to destroy light armor and tracks. Its possible to Destroy a Panzer IV from the rear at close range w/ shots to its engine w/ a DHSK or 50..thats totally retard-o. The Axis light armor isnt used b/c a clown on a 50 can shred it in 2 rounds or less...true story. Also, the 50 and DSHK shouldnt beinfantry useable...its to big and kicks to much to fire like a Light MG such as the Mg42 or Browning 30cal. Maybe in Assault Squad or something make Armor Piercing 50 cal rounds as an ammo option in the vehicle inventory but give the thing like 1 box or so of it. Then make them so they take quite a few rounds to destroy light armor then we'd be making sense of a deadly 50cal like it is now. Also, in GSM FOH2....there are smoke shells for tanks...those totally need to be in a version of MoW.....those would basically complete the awesomeness of MoW, you could then do Armor/Infantry assaults w/ smoke shells as cover and advancing behind tanks. W/O the 50cal being an Anti Everything gun the Germans could do thier Blitzkreig w/ 251s and light stuff. Would add more excite ment to the game, as is right now this game is cool but its kinda like every other RTS, 2 lines of Defense just duking it out till one side wins, rarely is there any cool manuvers people do....M4 SHerman Charge doesnt count =P

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

I agree simply throwing in realistic numbers, penetrations and ranges for the vehicles will not make the game more fun as long the maps do not support the range acordingly. Thoug playing eventualy on maps with 20km distances might not be the best part well not yet who knows in a few years what will come. But for now it will be just more frustrating for anyone not playing Germans. Hands down they had the most powerfull anti tank guns in service which could without much issues destroy almost any vehicle even with long range.

Dont make ranges 20Km, just keep the ranges as is, 150m range is fine..what is lame is that 150m nothing can kill anything. Dont make the game realistic to where the Germans are one shotting everything, this game isnt realistic so playbalance it. Find a base number and make the Germans a touch bit better, the Americans meh and the Russian 76 short barrels a bit worse. The 85s and 90s were as good but still not as deadly at long ranges like the German guns. This game could be play balanced a bit better. As is now the US stuff is pin point accurate even on the move, the Germans even touch the gas pedal the hit circle gets as big as a house. Even the Japanese tanks are more accurate then Germans..true story. The Germans in this game shouldnt be the overpowering god army they were just a bit better, prolly like the US tank accuracy is now......make the US and UK about as accurate as the King Tiger is now, that thing is nice. Then make the Russians a bit worse then that. Every nation should be moving Jagdtiger accurate on the move. There wasnt computer operated Gyro stabilization and stuff so hitting on the move didnt happen that much cuz it was like just tossing a shell out the hatch, your gunna miss anywho....Also, when is the Tiger going to get a new front bumper? Its got that "penetrable by everything" front bumper like the Pzr VI B King Tiger.

[Crni vuk]

"... US stuff is pin point accurate even on the move, the Germans even touch the gas pedal the hit circle gets as big as a house ..."

Stabilized Guns for Yanks' Tanks

Germans didnt used them ever in any of their vehicles except for rumors about the Panther II geting them. But its not even sure if there has been ever a runing prototype.

While those stabiliziations in WW2 have been not even close to what they are today ~ an abrahams has no issue to hit a target 2000meters away while driving full speed, they could give you some advantage while stoping and starting.

Though I havnt noticed much difference in accuracy between guns except for the super long range weapons like the 90mm or 88mm.

[KnightFandragon]

That stabilizer is neat =D

[Nikitns]

LOL what is this worthless crap? are you guys seriously DELUSIONAL? OR are you playing some mod? A t-34 gets splattered by a Panzer 4 from 100m at any range. Only way a T-34 can survive is 2 drive halfway up a hill into a semi-hull down position. That way its slope increases far more.


A tiger 1 tank can pretty much smash any Shermans (even Panzer 4 doesn't have a problem with those) from very far away. The sherman is a terrible tank with a high profile.

Panther DID have very thin armour at the flanks.

If Tiger wasn't angled, a T-34/85 shouldn't have any problems killing it from 1000m/front using decent ammunition.

Tiger did NOT face 400 Soviet armoured vehicles. Obviously vast majority of German armoured vehicles were APC's, medium tanks, armoured cars et cetra so they faced their soviet counterparts.

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

All that about the Tiger being good in game and how it was in RL. maybe in game it is decent but how do u explain it's shells bouncing off M4A1 Shermans and T34s. The Tiger should kill them easier then the 90s and 76s kill it. Yeah I realize this is a game and it needs play balance but the Tiger isnt play balanced its crap. If it was play balanced its gun would have the effectiveness of the M4A4VC Firefly of the British...as for now its worse then the M4A1 75M3 gun, or atleast not alot better. Although the penetration numbers on the description say its better, field testing proves its not. I played a Tank only battle not to long ago, my dad bounced no less than 5 rounds off my T34/76 M43 from reletivly close range, having no further effects past the broke turret which I think came from his Panzer IV H. The map was warehouse and that isnt a big map from DZ to DZ, so his Tiger bouncing like that off 47mm of armor on the T34 is pretty bad. Sure the T34 has its slope but it doesnt save it that well. Even in Singleplayer I lose atleast half my T34s I get on the Penal Unit mission to those Panzer IVs. For a Heavy Tank the Tiger is garb in MP when compared to others....its my last choice. The Panther is decent but its side is like melted butter. If MoW isnt ever going to give it it's real gun atleast give it it's real armor so Sherman M4s have a harder time killing it. Even the 85mm gun ofthe Russians is only 50% chance from the front in Squad Leader, that game is based almost entirely off realistic numbers and such.

LOL, whining based on nothing. Sorry if I sound rude mate, but I have NEVER experienced this. A Panzer 4H eats T-34/76 for breakfast even from 100m+ range. A Tiger would be overkill. You would need a T-34/85 or even better KV-85 to take down a Tiger 1.

Sounds like you are using some mod or something.

Also the editor stats for armour and penetration are NOT the same for MP stats.

[Nikitns]

Originally Posted by KnightFandragon

I dont doubt the Jagdpanthers armor or gun, its no doubt very good but the rate at which tanks in this game get detracked it make it my last choice b/c once its detracked its completly screwed...much like the Turtle for the UK. thier gun moves as far left and right as its tracks +D If Detracking was harder and more rare I might actually buy it. I do like the Jagdpanther for its looks, armor, gun...but that traverse bugs me alot.....that is my only real complaint w/ it. I play mostly defensive w/ a slow advance so speed isnt a big factor w/ me....even if I did attack I prefer something that has good fire arc and can absorb damage like no other. I usually play in 450-600 pt games w/ 120 population I guess its called...

I prefer the elefant. It has much better armour than Jagdpanther and costs only a few points more. A Jagdpanther can be penetrated from front, Elefant is immune 2 that. Also Jagdpanthers are very weak against ISU-152's.

[KnightFandragon]

Lolz, all that I put there about the Tiger wasnt a mod....it was 1.17.5 MP on the Warehouse map in the base game. Also, just the other day I was shooting a T34/76 from like 70 and closer and was doing nothing but bouncing with 2 Pzr IV H's with straight on shots to its side and frontal armor untill I got to like 30 and closer then I got yellow numbers and it went through finally. If I was able to record battles and make videos for proof of some of this crap I sooo totally would. Then in a Tank only battle just the other day I took the Pzr IV G and was shooting a lone M4A1 Sherman from pretty much max distance and bouncing off its side with like 7-8 shots. Only when the guy got like 60 away with like 2 or 3 straight on front shots did I get him. Am i having all this trouble b/c people are using armor cheats and cheating in this game is more common then I think it is or what? Soo many people say the Tiger is good but when I see it used in MP or play with it in the editor it sucks. The Panther I know has melted butter for armor, not complaining about that, just stating what about it I dont like.