Rebalancing of tanks needed!

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Evilsausage

Buying just one tank and that saving for KT is not always a good choice. Specially if your panzer 4 H get fucked up.

Personaly i normaly always get highest score in my team without playing with King Tigers. Prefere to be able to get good control of the battlefield instead of saving up for a super heavy tank.
Also Jagdpanthers can normaly do the same job as the KT, Unless IS-3s, T-29s are out on the field.

Exactly thats it. The trick is not to have the best gear you can get but to use the one you have available correctly. You can do a lot of great things in the right moment if you know how to use the weapon you have available (or you chose). And controling the battlefield is the key to victory. Particularly when then enemy is storming your possition with superior forces. You know it really pays of when you see expensive tanks killed by a soldier armed with a rocket. They are cheap and when you loose them it means not much. But destroying that Tiger or IS2 will sure teach them some lessons. I noticed that some people dominate the battlefield almost only with infantry, others are good with anti tank guns. I find the situation with tanks easier to handle. But if you loose to much ofthem it can be very difficult. You will get overrun easily.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

Exactly thats it. The trick is not to have the best gear you can get but to use the one you have available correctly. You can do a lot of great things in the right moment if you know how to use the weapon you have available (or you chose). And controling the battlefield is the key to victory. Particularly when then enemy is storming your possition with superior forces. You know it really pays of when you see expensive tanks killed by a soldier armed with a rocket. They are cheap and when you loose them it means not much. But destroying that Tiger or IS2 will sure teach them some lessons. I noticed that some people dominate the battlefield almost only with infantry, others are good with anti tank guns. I find the situation with tanks easier to handle. But if you loose to much ofthem it can be very difficult. You will get overrun easily.

Oh yeah, my dad dominates armor w/ his stormtroopers and panzerfaust......vicious w/ those guys. I also know the pain of losing tanks to infantry...atleast every few games I get a King Tiger TnT'd by some clown w/ a dynamite stick...its like "damn do I feel dumb". Also, losing big tanks to infantry actually cost us the game once...we were losing most the game, took the lead in the middle then like the last 30 seconds of the game some clown w/ a PanzerFaust crawls up and caps my T29 in the side to steal back the lead.......game over and we lost by only a few points..like 6 or so. That was a great game, fun times. I even, for the first time as the japanese not long ago managed to get my team the lead by taking out a Turtle w/ some seemingly bad ass japanese stormtroopers and several hundred grenades. Took 3 guys and a Chi Ri as bait into the back and just as I made my move got the turtle to turn aroundand blast at my Chi Ri while my men molotov'd, zooka'd and naded the hell outta the turtle. Then that Chi Ri took out a 2nd turtle and a 76W =D So, yeah, Infantry in this game are useful, yet another thing I like, even though I dont use them much its nice to know that tanks are no longer the one and only dominating god on the field, like CoH and almost every other RTS i know of. Makes for much more fun games

[Crni vuk]

well I find the Jagdpanther much more usefull then the SU100. But thats no surprise I guess.

What makes the Jagdpanther and other tank destroyers with similar powerfull guns not so usefull though is the fact that you have to get very close to the heavy tanks to do any real damage.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

What makes the Jagdpanther and other tank destroyers with similar powerfull guns not so usefull though is the fact that you have to get very close to the heavy tanks to do any real damage.

That to....the damage degredation in this game is crazy fast. Ive been messing in the editor in my own mod changing penetration numbers and stuff and I had the King Tiger gun and my modded KWK44 on it to 350 for all ranges and at 200 range the penetration was a whole 98 or something, at 150 it was like 190. I wish there was a way to make it hold its 350 penetration for the whole 150m....or atleast not drop off half as fast as it does. Also, why, no matter the number can I still not 1 shot a Heavy Tank...I keep upping my penetration number just to see how high it has to go to 1 shot big stuff and I have a gun to 1500 penetration and 3500 dmg and its still not enough lolz. Figuring out penetration in this game....my MoW life goal

[Evilsausage]

Well i have heard the Penetrations will be changed in the expansions but to tell the truth i kinda like the penetration as it is.
Since the game doesnt have real life weapon ranges. They had to scale down the penetration accordingly to the range aswell. Like 10 meter = 100 meters etc..
Also do we really want King Tigers to become even better? Since people are already whining that they are OP.


Then again havent played Assault squad. The penetration changes might be better then it is now.

[KnightFandragon]

Since this game isnt realistic to real life then atleast make it play balanced where the Germans arent as inaccurate as a 2 yer old w/ a Mp40 and the Americans arent pintpoint accurate. Next I hate the fact that tanks have to kiss stuff to kill it,...increase penetration atleast a few meters.......next make the ligher stuff a little bit more appealing to use...as is now its just free points...atleast German stuff is, the 50 and DSHK just kill it.

[Evilsausage]

Thing is if we change the weapon ranges alot of other stuff has to be changed aswell. Like longer view distance for all the units and also all the maps need to become bigger.
A map like Workshop is already very smal and you can shoot through a large part of it.
Fields of Honor Mod Has a longer range on all the equipment, it was cool in a way but can't really say the gameplay got much better.
Be Greatfull MoW dosn't got CoH weapon ranges


But i have to agree about the 50 cals and DKSHs.
Had a game where a King tiger Assaulted my IS-3.
Knowing that the king tiger could't get killed frontaly it moved very close in for the kill on my detracked IS-3. So i starded firing my DKSH detracking both tracks and causing the KT to turn as it was moving, Showing its side to my IS-3.
Then i could just simply shoot the KT in the side. Hillarious stuff.

Anyway 50 cals and DKSHs maybe should have abit lower penetration at long ranges...and less effectivness vs Tracks.

[Crni vuk]

Originally Posted by Evilsausage

Well i have heard the Penetrations will be changed in the expansions but to tell the truth i kinda like the penetration as it is.
Since the game doesnt have real life weapon ranges. They had to scale down the penetration accordingly to the range aswell. Like 10 meter = 100 meters etc..
Also do we really want King Tigers to become even better? Since people are already whining that they are OP.


Then again havent played Assault squad. The penetration changes might be better then it is now.

I agree simply throwing in realistic numbers, penetrations and ranges for the vehicles will not make the game more fun as long the maps do not support the range acordingly. Thoug playing eventualy on maps with 20km distances might not be the best part well not yet who knows in a few years what will come. But for now it will be just more frustrating for anyone not playing Germans. Hands down they had the most powerfull anti tank guns in service which could without much issues destroy almost any vehicle even with long range.

But it is nice to hear that they eventualy plan to tweak it here a bit cause it always feels strange to have the SU 100 for example get pretty close to score a sucesfull hit on medium tanks already. Or same for the Jagdpanther and most important the Nashorn is almost completely useless that way. It will be almost always spoted before you can get a shoot and as soon you do shoot and miss or dont destroy the target with your first shoot its toast. Not very usefull for a tank hunter. Particuilarly situations where you can get a clear shoot to the side of the vehicle should show much more effect. Its already hard enough to get in the flank of the enemy. Why even punished further with it that you have to spend sometimes 3 or 4 shoots before you can bring the target down ... of course I am talking about a hit not a miss. To many times you see shoots do nothing even when they hit. And a T34 should realy have no issue to penetrate the Panthers side. Not even the 76 should have here already issues.

[KnightFandragon]

Originally Posted by Crni vuk

I agree simply throwing in realistic numbers, penetrations and ranges for the vehicles will not make the game more fun as long the maps do not support the range acordingly. Thoug playing eventualy on maps with 20km distances might not be the best part well not yet who knows in a few years what will come. But for now it will be just more frustrating for anyone not playing Germans. Hands down they had the most powerfull anti tank guns in service which could without much issues destroy almost any vehicle even with long range.

Dont make ranges 20Km, just keep the ranges as is, 150m range is fine..what is lame is that 150m nothing can kill anything. Dont make the game realistic to where the Germans are one shotting everything, this game isnt realistic so playbalance it. Find a base number and make the Germans a touch bit better, the Americans meh and the Russian 76 short barrels a bit worse. The 85s and 90s were as good but still not as deadly at long ranges like the German guns. This game could be play balanced a bit better. As is now the US stuff is pin point accurate even on the move, the Germans even touch the gas pedal the hit circle gets as big as a house. Even the Japanese tanks are more accurate then Germans..true story. The Germans in this game shouldnt be the overpowering god army they were just a bit better, prolly like the US tank accuracy is now......make the US and UK about as accurate as the King Tiger is now, that thing is nice. Then make the Russians a bit worse then that. Every nation should be moving Jagdtiger accurate on the move. There wasnt computer operated Gyro stabilization and stuff so hitting on the move didnt happen that much cuz it was like just tossing a shell out the hatch, your gunna miss anywho....Also, when is the Tiger going to get a new front bumper? Its got that "penetrable by everything" front bumper like the Pzr VI B King Tiger.