An Interview with Oleg

[zapatista]

one other thought on DRM and using "online checks" with a Madox 1C server (for multiplayer online BoB servers)

a concern with RoF was that it was an unproven company without a commercial history, and so people were rightly worried about what would happen if the RoF company would collapse (making their game worthless and not being able to play it anymore because the RoF server thingy is dead)

oleg could add some statement that for 5 yrs from purchase online "server check servers" will be guaranteed to be available online, and that in case madox/1c stops as a company (highly highly unlikely because of its long track record and oleg's reliability, that the "server check" component will be released as open source to the community

that would be one way to deflect most possible criticisms about having the inconvenience of online checks

[Erkki]

Doesnt really matter to me - I will buy and play it anyways, mostly online.

But IF its more than just a check, ie. StarForce style spyware ##### software installed on my comp instead of the game just asking the main server if the code matches, its a different thing.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Erkki

But IF its more than just a check, ie. StarForce style spyware ##### software installed on my comp instead of the game just asking the main server if the code matches, its a different thing.

agreed completely. starforce killed 2 dvd writers in my pc (one sony one pioneer), i wont buy anything with starcrap, that junk is evil

i have absolutely no doubt that oleg wont be using it, it has had to much bad publicity

and as it later turned out starforce itself was stolen/copied/pirated from the danish company that originally designed that protection system, so the starforce mafiosi clan deserves to go to hell for the junk they created with their own theft, and the callous way they treated customers (despite a long track of proven damage to hardware, they never indemnified the customers who were affected).

[Untamo]

I think the anti-piracy methods are unnecessary.

Pirates will pirate, there is no stopping it. Trying to enforce pirates to buy is just futile, 1C shouldn't consider them as their market

1C should be saving their money from spending on anti-piracy, and use it for development and such. The only thing anti-piracy does, is make honest buyers suffer.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Untamo

I think the anti-piracy methods are unnecessary.

Pirates will pirate, there is no stopping it. Trying to enforce pirates to buy is just futile, 1C shouldn't consider them as their market

1C should be saving their money from spending on anti-piracy, and use it for development and such. The only thing anti-piracy does, is make honest buyers suffer.

piracy is a real problem, even if it is just friends at school making copies of games for each other, it all adds up in lost sales.

but the biggest problem is the real mafiosi who have organized networks for marketing pirated software, and it is bigger business to them then dope smuggling or women trafficking and their subsequent prostitution. piracy is BIG money ! this then gets sold openly to the public in 2e and 3e world countries in stores ( for ex even 90% of all chinese government computers actually use pirated OS and office programs), while in 1e world countries it is sold at markets and from car boots or down the pub. those really are the major thefts oleg needs to protect against (just like any other game designer), and a decent protection is needed for it.

[Feuerfalke]

The problem with copy protections is, that they are software and even forced internet connection can be overcome (as seen with current UBI-CopyProtections).

So IMHO there are two logic consequences.

1. Build a game primarily for playing online, which may be ok for a shooter or MMO-game, but for a flightsim with many people playing only offline, it's a no-go.

2. Protect the game by physical means. Physical?
In the good old times, when game-manuals were still printed and included in the box, people thought twice about making a copy from a complex game, because it would cost them real money and personal effort to copy the necessary media as well. As silly as it may sound on first glance, this takes a LOT MORE effort than the few clicks for downloading and installing a crack and it's pretty cheap compared to copy protection software.


But in the end, DRMs like that crappy thing from UBI is not really aimed at pirates. As stated above, you cannot eliminate pirating by such means. If you see how limited installations and limiting to one account works, it's pretty clearly aimed at the numerous copies sold on ebay.

[Untamo]

Originally Posted by zapatista

piracy is a real problem, even if it is just friends at school making copies of games for each other, it all adds up in lost sales.

but the biggest problem is the real mafiosi who have organized networks for marketing pirated software, and it is bigger business to them then dope smuggling or women trafficking and their subsequent prostitution. piracy is BIG money ! this then gets sold openly to the public in 2e and 3e world countries in stores ( for ex even 90% of all chinese government computers actually use pirated OS and office programs), while in 1e world countries it is sold at markets and from car boots or down the pub. those really are the major thefts oleg needs to protect against (just like any other game designer), and a decent protection is needed for it.

Yes, I agree it's a problem, but dealing with it is an even bigger problem and I see it as a futile one. There aren't many examples of games that haven't been cracked and pirated. So, my opinion is that it's better to just ignore the pirates and focus on serving the PAYING customers.

Plus: It's a growing trend to crack games just because they have anti-piracy systems in them (to remove the invasive protection systems, to relieve one of putting the cd in and such).

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by Untamo

Yes, I agree it's a problem, but dealing with it is an even bigger problem and I see it as a futile one. There aren't many examples of games that haven't been cracked and pirated. So, my opinion is that it's better to just ignore the pirates and focus on serving the PAYING customers.

Plus: It's a growing trend to crack games just because they have anti-piracy systems in them (to remove the invasive protection systems, to relieve one of putting the cd in and such).

I agree... really you can do nothing against piracy. Above all if the game has a good single player mode... for multiplayer there are lobbies.

Antipiracy tools only ruins the life of the honest guys.

[Antoninus]

Exactly, even UBIsofts vaunted online DRM system was already cracked after just a few weeks.

Back in the 90ties publishers tried to offer their honest customers a better product than
the pirates. Games came in big boxes with thick manuals and printed maps. Today
UBI plans to ship all new games without any kind of printed manual at all. The
pirates have actually the better product now without any kind of restricitve DRM that only troubles people who have paid for their game.

Today no pirate has to rely on school yard copies from friends that could be
suppressed with such systems. Anybody can just download the cracked version from the
Internet.

Punishing your loyal customers won't win the battle against piracy.

[baronWastelan]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

The problem with copy protections is, that they are software and even forced internet connection can be overcome (as seen with current UBI-CopyProtections).

So IMHO there are two logic consequences.

1. Build a game primarily for playing online, which may be ok for a shooter or MMO-game, but for a flightsim with many people playing only offline, it's a no-go.

2. Protect the game by physical means. Physical?
In the good old times, when game-manuals were still printed and included in the box, people thought twice about making a copy from a complex game, because it would cost them real money and personal effort to copy the necessary media as well. As silly as it may sound on first glance, this takes a LOT MORE effort than the few clicks for downloading and installing a crack and it's pretty cheap compared to copy protection software.


But in the end, DRMs like that crappy thing from UBI is not really aimed at pirates. As stated above, you cannot eliminate pirating by such means. If you see how limited installations and limiting to one account works, it's pretty clearly aimed at the numerous copies sold on ebay.

Protect the game by physical means www.microcosm.co.uk/dongles.php