Vote your choice - Clickable Cockpits or Not

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by robtek

@Zorin

be assured that a pilot always looks at the switches he is using, you would too if your life can be forfeit by a simple error.

Because you always look at your gear leaver when shifting, just so you don't end up in reserve...

Pilots spent in most cases their whole war career in one type of plane, with several thousand hours of flight, do you honestly believe they would look at each single switch they operate??

Especially in the Luftwaffe types most stuff is automated and others have a wide range of limiters, so you couldn't operate most switches in a way that would harm the plane/engine.

[Antoninus]

Many switches are placed so close to each other that you can't operate them without a short look, even in my simple car and especially in WW2 fighter.

Just look at the two Co2 bottles in the F4U cockpit (no 13), placed directly beneath each other. One is for emergency landing gear extension the other for purging the fuel vapor from the wingtanks before combat. Would you risk to accidentally open the wrong bottle?

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Zorin

Because you always look at your gear leaver when shifting, just so you don't end up in reserve...

Pilots spent in most cases their whole war career in one type of plane, with several thousand hours of flight, do you honestly believe they would look at each single switch they operate??

Especially in the Luftwaffe types most stuff is automated and others have a wide range of limiters, so you couldn't operate most switches in a way that would harm the plane/engine.

Even in the 109 the position of quite a few switches and levers changed with the different versions.
Also in this SIMULATION that BoB:SoW will be the majority of flight-time will be Starting, landing, cruising. The time for battle is severely limited by the fuel situation.
So there will be enough boring minutes that can be filled by operating a clickpit, and one will shurely nurse ones 109 back home with the engine running at max endurance with the fuel warning light on.

[nearmiss]

Look at it this way... hopefully

If the cockpit is clickable that means there won't be some big knees, hands or feet blocking the cockpit views. I don't know about the moving stick, but I hope it's gone as well. The moving rudder pedals are out of the way, so I don't care if they are moving.

I've always hated a big pair of hands, the stick or knees blocking the view of instruments. I recall trying to see the slip and ball when it is obstructed by the stick and a big hand wrapped around it.

Then of course I've done most of my Il2 flying by using a trackball (mouse) with my left hand for viewing. The mouse being tied to views will probably force us to use a free-track or Track IR for viewing, because the mouse will be used for moving around the cockpit and clicking.

So... I don't see a possible way to use the mouse for viewing and clicking at the same time. Maybe possible, but I don't see it.

Regardless, it probably isn't a bad thing for users to have to cough up another $200 for a Track IR, afterall we need to support the suppliers that are supporting us. LOL

I have have an aversion to track IR, because they keep banging on us with so called improved versions. They could have just released the software like CH Products and we could use the parts for years, but no they make miniscule changes in the hardware and stick us for another big chunk of money. I always considered Track IR a rip off for this reason alone, not because of product quality.

Now it would appear with Track IR making moves to exclude competition by including special software hooks in game applications and TrackIR software to exclude options like Free-track we'll have to pay to see.

[WhiteSnake]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I have have an aversion to track IR, because they keep banging on us with so called improved versions. They could have just released the software like CH Products and we could use the parts for years, but no they make miniscule changes in the hardware and stick us for another big chunk of money. I always considered Track IR a rip off for this reason alone, not because of product quality.

Now it would appear with Track IR making moves to exclude competition by including special software hooks in game applications and TrackIR software to exclude options like Free-track we'll have to pay to see.

I totaly agrea with that 100%
Its also funny that if you mention an alternative to TrackIR like Free-Track on the UBI forums your post gets removed and you get a warning your not alouwed to discus it on there...

[WhiteSnake]

Originally Posted by robtek

Even in the 109 the position of quite a few switches and levers changed with the different versions.
Also in this SIMULATION that BoB:SoW will be the majority of flight-time will be Starting, landing, cruising. The time for battle is severely limited by the fuel situation.
So there will be enough boring minutes that can be filled by operating a clickpit, and one will shurely nurse ones 109 back home with the engine running at max endurance with the fuel warning light on.

In a Dogfight a Pilot is Not going to look at the Switch or Lever he needs to operate, They design a Cocpit in such a way the Pilot can easly use them with out having to look, some switches, levers are also designed in such a way you cant engage them accedently or by how they feel or by a safety device.
Basicly all the things you would need in a Dogfight are configured in such a way that you didnt need to look at them, and in somecases the Cockpit panel would have an indication of the setting its on also.

Think about your Car, wen you need to use the indicators, whipers, or headlights/highbeam/lowbeam etc. or change gears your not looking at the switches and levers your operating also (i hope) you just do that automaticly and to help you there are lights on your instrument pannel indicating if the lighrts etc are on or not.

Maybe someone will make a Controle Pannel in the future you can use on a Seperate Touchscreen to controle all the difrent functions of the Aircraft, and wen you change to a model or country the pannel changes apearance and functions.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by WhiteSnake

In a Dogfight a Pilot is Not going to look at the Switch or Lever he needs to operate, They design a Cocpit in such a way the Pilot can easly use them with out having to look, some switches, levers are also designed in such a way you cant engage them accedently or by how they feel or by a safety device.
Basicly all the things you would need in a Dogfight are configured in such a way that you didnt need to look at them, and in somecases the Cockpit panel would have an indication of the setting its on also.

Think about your Car, wen you need to use the indicators, whipers, or headlights/highbeam/lowbeam etc. or change gears your not looking at the switches and levers your operating also (i hope) you just do that automaticly and to help you there are lights on your instrument pannel indicating if the lighrts etc are on or not.

Maybe someone will make a Controle Pannel in the future you can use on a Seperate Touchscreen to controle all the difrent functions of the Aircraft, and wen you change to a model or country the pannel changes apearance and functions.

Some people are hopeless!
There is NOT only black and white!!!
NOBODY is forced to use the mouse for flaps, power, firing the guns, prop-pitch etc...
Those controls will still be on the hotas!!! except if one is a hidden masochist and likes to loose all fights
SoW:BoB will have so many additional switches and levers that have to be used in "full real" settings that most hotas systems wont have enough buttons!
It is easier to remember a position in a cockpit and use the mouse than to remember ,say 30, new, obscure key combinations.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Originally Posted by WhiteSnake

In a Dogfight a Pilot is Not going to look at the Switch or Lever he needs to operate, They design a Cocpit in such a way the Pilot can easly use them with out having to look, some switches, levers are also designed in such a way you cant engage them accedently or by how they feel or by a safety device.
Basicly all the things you would need in a Dogfight are configured in such a way that you didnt need to look at them, and in somecases the Cockpit panel would have an indication of the setting its on also.

Think about your Car, wen you need to use the indicators, whipers, or headlights/highbeam/lowbeam etc. or change gears your not looking at the switches and levers your operating also (i hope) you just do that automaticly and to help you there are lights on your instrument pannel indicating if the lighrts etc are on or not.

Maybe someone will make a Controle Pannel in the future you can use on a Seperate Touchscreen to controle all the difrent functions of the Aircraft, and wen you change to a model or country the pannel changes apearance and functions.

I don't think the study of ergonomics was as advanced in late 30's as it is now and standardisation was anything but common when laying out aircraft cockpits. ( Just look in the IL2 aircraft guide!).

Conversion onto type was a fairly detailed process even switching from one mark of an aircraft to another which is why even to this day you need to get endorsements on your licences before flying a new type of plane.

Hey, even switching between European and Australian cars will have you flicking on the wipers when you wanted to indicate!! We don't automatically know where a switch will be, (It's not allways logical, sometimes they were just put where they fitted) We have to learn where they are. And jumping from one plane (or car for that matter) can lead to mistakes (possibly fatal!).

Fortunately with a fairly small plane set it shouldn't take too long to learn our cockpit layouts.


I for one will be mapping all my essential functions to my HOTAS and switch pannel.

Cheers!

[nearmiss]

It might be interesting to run a similar poll after the clickable cockpits are out for a while. It makes no difference now, since it appears they will be included.

Then again, as I mentioned in a previous posting that Track IR is maneuvering in the flight and air combat flight simulation community. I just hope there is allowance for the mouse to be used as before for viewing, if we choose not to use click cockpits. If we can't use a mouse for viewing with the clickable cockpits I'd say Track IR has pretty well created an annuity for themselves, coupled of course with forcing out applications like Free-track.

The Free-track works very well, if you build a good L.E.D. headset. So... The hooks programmed into the Track IR and applications are intended to prohibit the use of anything like a free-track. Coupled with the autocratic maneuvers at places like Ubi to prohibit talk about Free-track I'd say there is a kind of battle being waged to prevent applications like Free-track. It may be that clickable cockpits play a major role in Track IR strategy.

I don't believe Oleg would conspire and program hooks into BOB SOW to force us to use Track IR.

[SlipBall]

(quote)
It might be interesting to run a similar poll after the clickable cockpits are out for a while


Another good gauge will be the activity (or lack of) on the "full click servers" if they appear...I think the click will invite many new faces to our little world, the possibilities for 1C/third parties will be huge.