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| IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator. |
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#1
01-25-2010, 01:58 PM
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Taking head tracking realism to the next level
Initial reading (especially read the second link if nothing else), to understand why this should be implemented.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vestibular_system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensory...ns_in_aviation A thoroughly thought out proposal, which is not difficult at all to implement (although tuning it not to go crazy is a bit trickier), if not already implemented. It would much increase realism in sim flight for players with head tracking. We make use of the 1G available to the sim player at home in his static chair to manipulate his actual vestibular system through clever manipulation of the view angles on the monitor display. This allows us access of vestibular system like in real world to aid in flying, but also to mislead us like in real world, adding no false or gamey things that we don't already suffer from head tracking. Clarification: - Virtual pilot/head = the one in IL-2, simulated, we see through his eyes on the screen. - Player = the real world body and head of the player running the simulation at home in his chair. Example, left bank turn, instrument flying situations (at night or in a cloud). (a). Banking left, the virtual pilot feels 1G pushing to the left (that's where the ground is). To simulate this feeling and to manipulate the vestibular system of the player, we roll (tilt) the virtual head to the right, towards the horizon. This way, the player's head will feel the 1G 'downwards' on his balance system like the virtual pilot, while seeing what he should be seeing when feeling these G-forces. (b). If player wants to align his eyesight with the cockpit, player must tilt his real world head to the left. Doing so, player will feel the 1G force in real life, pulling player to the left, just like the virtual pilot should be feeling if he decides to keep his head aligned with cockpit. (c). To properly simulate the real vestibular system, and to prevent player from using the tilt angle of the cockpit on the screen to always know (when flying blind) how much he is banking, and to add more vestibular manipulation and simulation (the player only has 1G; and cannot tilt his head as much to the side for the sake of G-force as is really required), the following must happen: The right tilt of the virtual pilot head mentioned in (a). above, is decreased slowly, until eventually becoming aligned with the cockpit. Then the player, leveling his real head slowly, will experience with all his senses (what he sees on screen as well as what he feels in his vestibular system), that he is flying straight and level. (d). When we stop this bank and return to level flight, the virtual pilot head instead roll/tilts to the left. The player will then experience with his eyes as well as vestibular system that the plane is turning to the right, even though it is not. The only indication that he is not, is if he looks at the instruments in his cockpit, or the horizon. The tilt of the virtual pilot head continues until the vestibular system again has reset itself, taking up to 20 seconds. This is exactly like real life in result, and much in feeling. If player does not read his instruments, relying alone on his vestibular system + watching the cockpit angle, he can suffer vertigo and enter the graveyard spiral and many other scary real world things. Note that this will have to be combined with strong G-forces acting on our neck muscles like in air combat maneuvering. This is not a problem, because air combat maneuvering is so violent that it acts very forcefully on your vestibular system and neck muscles, making it fairly apparent to your body that you are performing a certain maneuver. But not at lower speeds where planes cannot reach high G-forces. And just imagine top of zooms. The effect from air combat maneuvering on the vestibular system will be noticed when not maneuvering violently anymore. Then the effects of all those G's you pulled will move your virtual head in the opposite direction. For example, after performing a tight loop, when you level out at the end, you will get the sensation that you are pitching down (the virtual pilot head will pitch upwards, just as it would if you were flying level and then pushed the stick forward - only now you are actually just flying level, yet it 'feels' and 'looks' as if you are going nose down). The youtube video of Storm of War (spitifire in clouds over water) looks just like this when coming out of the loop at the end, but I don't know if they use headtracking or not there. --- And this should just be an option to be checked for fun immersion, or in the 'realism' setting  Maybe it will make some people sick. Never the less, it misleads as much as it adds. The normal IL-2 with 6DoF mod already makes you unable to know what is up, down etc if you are flying in clouds or at night, so it's not really different. But it has the potential to add a lot for those wanting to use it. There's not much to be gained in terms of flying ability with it on, rather you probably suffer more disadvantages due to the illusions it gives you.
Last edited by MikkOwl; 01-25-2010 at 02:08 PM. 
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#2
01-25-2010, 02:25 PM
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S!
Interesting idea and for sure immersive  Would the puke bag be included with SoW? It is true relying on your senses gets you killed in flying.
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#3
01-25-2010, 02:40 PM
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THIS... IS... SPARTAAAAAAA!!  But seriously, never ever heard of someone being sick with a computer flight simulator or whatsoever. Anyone here already did it? Very interesting suggestion, MikkOwl. I'd love to see this implemented in Storm of War!
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#4
01-25-2010, 02:44 PM
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S!
Lucas, actually some people felt dizzy when trying the real pilot training simulator for Hornet at work I chuckled here imagining thousands of SoW players sitting with a green face in front of their computers with gf/wifeys shaking heads in disbelief to what we are ready to do for virtual flying 
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#5
01-25-2010, 02:46 PM
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My girlfriend is extremely prone to motion sickness (can't even gently look around in a first person game using the mouse). Within a few short minutes becomes so dizzy and sick she has to lay down for like half an hour, and still feels the effects up to an hour after.
 I myself felt some MAJOR motion sickness when trying my TiR 5 for the first time in IL-2, I had not set it up properly at all and it was totally messed up. Had to stop and rest. With anywhere approaching good settings I don't feel anything however.If you look at the Spitfire in the Clouds video, it does look like they have this already. Especially when it pulls up near the end after hauling back hard on the stick for like 10 seconds straight (while also turning a bit) - coming out of this, the view is offset a lot upwards (which is otherwise only seen when pushing stick forward), and also a bit tilted/offset to the side. Question is if this also applies to head tracking (Oh how I wish so - in IL-2 the headtracking is unaffected by the plane, it's like a fixed static point, with some vibration effects, and some not well implemented G-forces with the 6DoF mod). Either way, it will need to be a slider so that users can tweak it to their liking. It depends on how your tracking is set up and how much you can tolerate before getting sick or thinking it looks really exaggerated messed up.
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#6
01-25-2010, 03:11 PM
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But it wont make it with 2-3 screen... you must be in a complete closed cockpit
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#7
01-25-2010, 03:13 PM
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Well, that's a different story.
There you're inside a dark ambient, with a very very big screen and loud sounds. When you're not piloting, sometimes you can loose a bit of balance inside those (never really happened with me, though. But, just to make sure, I usually stand near something just in case  )Acutally, just remembered one video that can give this feel, this , on the loops specially. I sort of like the feeling , but those who aren't really fond of it might actually feel a bit sick.Nevertheless, it's Storm of War! War is no walk in the park. People get shot, killed and sick the whole time, so there's no reason for not implementing it
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#8
01-25-2010, 03:14 PM
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When I do this, I feel sick. Funny but true. Same as for the pilots you mentioned, the movements are different from expected.
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#9
01-25-2010, 03:37 PM
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Too much simming gives me a headache and even blurry vision. Never stopped me before, mind.
The problem is that my sense of space is telling me to look at those planes 'off in the distance' whereas my eyes are trying to focus on the screen.
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#10
01-26-2010, 12:25 AM
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Very interesting topic MikkOwl,
One of the interesting things (to me at least) would be how unreliable our Vestibular system is when we get into an aircraft. (see second link). Even though I've only done about 3 hours in simulated instument flying (with the hood on!) I can attest that it is a constant battle of will power to disregard the seat-of-the-pants feeling that you are experiencing and concentrate on the instruments. (I'm sure it becomes second nature as you gain experience but I didn't get to that point (yet)) I have very vivid memories of my first instrument exercise where we were flying in the training area and the instructor pulled the hood from behind the steat and told me to put it on. The next half hour was extreamly intense trying to follow the instructors instructions. When he finally told me to lift the hood we were on short finals and he said "Now land the plane!". By the end of it I had no idea where we were or where we had been (and was getting one of the few cases of air sickness that have had ) , I had just followed the instructions. One of the problems with our vestibular sences is that even in straight and level flight just engine vibration can cause false feelings of motions and (as stated in the second link) if the plane is very gently moving off course our inner ears can't pick up the motion. It may even be possible to simulate some of the feeling using sound system to produce the spurious feeling in our inner ears? Good topic MikkOwl Cheers! P.S. I haven't got motion sickness from a flight sim yet, but I can only play half an hour of FPS like call of duty before I start to feel queezy! Last edited by Skoshi Tiger; 01-26-2010 at 12:32 AM.
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