Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

[Houndstone Hawk]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

If you feel ripped off, why not add up the cost of a gaming PC and peripherals, take away the cost of your console and peripherals then divide the difference by the average cost of a new console game? How many games does that get you before you actually are being ripped off?

Given that BoP is the first console outing for the series means a lot of the development time is spent getting the core engine off the ground. Development costs a lot of money, and "feature creep" can prove very expensive, if not fatal, to development houses/publishers if not kept in check. You can keep adding features until the cows come home, but if you don't get your product out there earning you are just burning money.

If you want to make a fair comparison, at least compare BoP to the very first IL2 game, not one that has undergone several iterations of refinement.

But games do get dumbed down for the console market, undoubtedly. Either accept that or go back to PC gaming. It's that simple really.

I personally prefer console gaming because I can sit more comfortably in the lounge with a bigger screen, not spend hours trying to configure the game or hardware to actually run the thing and not worry about being bettered online by someone with superior hardware or hacks.

When I mean IL-2 STURMOVIK for the PC, I am quite obviously referring to IL-2 STURMOVIK on the PC. I may have mentioned 1946 once within that post but my references are based upon the original 2001 release. I believe my quote (below) re: 1946 was merely describing it as the complete series all rolled into one & in no way was a direct comparison being made being BoP & 1946 alone.


"IL-2 1946 that came out only a few years ago was the complete series in one ..."


Other than your attempt at 'word twist', I also believe you make a very weak 1st point. Can (or could) you not run a PC combat sim as simple as IL-2 without Perepherals or a top-end graphics card? Hell yes. I did for ages!!! Sure it helps; but it also helps if you spend over 100 quid on a large 360 hard drive (that does nothing more than a bog-standard PC drive for about 20 - 30 quid), mouth watering console flight sticks etc.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Can (or could) you not run a PC combat sim as simple as IL-2 without Perepherals or a top-end graphics card? Hell yes. I did for ages!!! Sure it helps; but it also helps if you spend over 100 quid on a large 360 hard drive (that does nothing more than a bog-standard PC drive for about 20 - 30 quid), mouth watering console flight sticks etc.

I don't really understand your point in this paragraph. Are you saying you can play IL2 on a rubbish PC? And your talk of hard drives is lost on me - I'm on PS3 so don't know how a hard drive affects 360 performance.

My first point, weak as it may be, still stands - can you play the game, to equal graphical quality, on a PC for the same price as you can on a PS3 or XBox 360?

Maybe you have forgotten how you opened this thread...

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Before the loyal disciples jump in with all guns blazing, I am a fellow gamer that has grown tired of the pc community, having to shell out constantly for upgrades etc in order to stay at the cutting edge of gaming & like many other gamers, I now want to enjoy a great experience on a great console, from the comfort of the sofa in front of a nice big LCD HD TV.

My second point is also valid. It is well known that this is the first console outing for this franchise. That requires new engine technology. Although their proprietary engine already works for PC and 360, they still need to build a PS3 engine from the ground up. Whether you're aware or not, it is not an easy machine to work with, and I think the quality of their product shows they've done an incredible job. Especially if you look at the size of the team in the credits and compare it to the ridiculously bloated teams you see on other projects. Very few publishers want to fund years and years of development before a project starts making a return. Hunt around for the information and you will see that the sequel to this game is the point where they can start adding all the nice things like replays and what have you.

And it's pretty derrogatory towards the developers to label it as a "simple" game. Bejeweled is simple. Any form of 3D engine is very far from simple. And getting anything to run on a broad range of PC hardware is also very far from simple.

I fail to see what you're hoping to achieve with this thread. We all know PC and console gaming are not the same thing. We all know there are a different category of games released to each market, although there is some overlap. To my mind, console gaming is a half-way house between coin-op arcades and PC games. The sooner people realise, maybe the less whining about how it's not the same as the PC versions we'll have to put up with, because quite frankly I'm sick to death of hearing about how BoP is not up to the IL2 standard. It is my first experience with the franchise and a very pleasing one.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Wow... Incredible...

Apples and Trash Bags... BOP wasn't meant to be IL2 1946 for the console. This is a game that is meant to appeal to a wider audience and I think it succeeded in doing just that.

You really can't compare the two titles. One title is nearly 9 years old with several addons which includes new planes new maps new objects for a platform that is much much more flexible.

Remember game developers PAY to build games for the consoles and they have to meet certain expectations set by the publisher and folks like MS Sony etc.

These titles had different goals.

Buyer Beware

[Houndstone Hawk]

Ah right, so BoP was never meant to try & mimmick a fantasic experience as 2001's IL-2 STURMOVIK! I get it now! The name kinda suggests to me that it's going to be a slight representation of the series ... IL-2 STURMOVIK: BIRDS OF PREY. (Bit of a hint in the title

Hey I'm all for the arcade mode to attract different ppl, I was led into thinking that I was to be catered for also!!!

I bought this title on multi platforms because I was told by the devs in its build up that I, the so-called PC SIM hardcore would be more than at home & that it was a faithful console experience worthy of the series so if you're sick of the whining Inf States, stop reading this thread!!!!
It's an Il-2 with most of the cockpits missing, a belly achingly laughable bomber experience straight out of Blazing Angels; it's an IL-2 where t/o & landing is seen as UNIMPORTANT, where a simple skirmish modes omit next to any form of diversity, a game that fails on every level other than looks IMO.
And back to the point of the post & just like OFP: Dragon Rising released this week, if there was a PC version of BoP, you wouldn't atall bet against it having most of the above criteria.
The point of the post, OFPragon Rising ships to all 3 major platforms & unlike the last gen offering, guess what? the console version is stripped of any form of replayability & is blessed with a price ticket more than double the price in places!!!

[Ancient Seraph]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Ah right, so BoP was never meant to try & mimmick a fantasic experience as 2001's IL-2 STURMOVIK! I get it now! The name kinda suggests to me that it's going to be a slight representation of the series ... IL-2 STURMOVIK: BIRDS OF PREY. It's an Il-2 with most of the cockpits missing, a belly achingly laughable bomber experience straight out of Blazing Angels; it's an IL-2 where t/o & landing is seen as UNIMPORTANT, where a simple skirmish modes omit next to any form of diversity, that fails on every level other than looks.
And back to the point of the post & just like OFP: Dragon Rising released this week, if there was a PC version of BoP, you wouldn't atall bet against it having most of the above criteria.
The point of the post, OFPragon Rising ships to all 3 major platforms & unlike the last gen offering, guess what? the console version is stripped of any form of replayability & is blessed with a price ticket more than double the price in places!!!

OK, we get it, you're pissed at the games publishing world. As you might've noticed complaining like this only leads to unnecessary discussions and an overall negative vibe. You want to vent your anger, mail to the publishers of OFP: DR.

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

I bought this title on multi platforms because I was told by the devs in its build up that I, the so-called PC SIM hardcore would be more than at home & that it was a faithful console experience worthy of the series so if you're sick of the whining Inf States, stop reading this thread!!!!

No you weren't, you were told by the publisher's marketing department, and you are exactly the person they dream of - someone who blindly buys the product based on what they tell you. It's not like there wasn't a demo to try before you spent money on it. And the full game delivers exactly what the demo promised.

So it's your own fault at the end of the day, and you really don't have a valid basis to complain.

And I wasn't referring to this thread specifically.

[Flying Coffin]

Best thing about this thread is it concerns itself with whether console gamers feel ripped off but nobody seems to want to mention the 360 DLC "download" clocking in at only 140kb ... which indicates an unlock code for content that's already on the disc.

Why is everybody being so coy about mentioning the holding back of game content so the publisher can charge for it later? It's the biggest rip off on the 360 no matter what company is doing it.

What else is on the disc that people will have to pony up for I wonder?

And when publishers complain about modded consoles and pirated games that have all content cracked and open for use I really don't feel any sympathy when I see mercenary shit like this going down.

[JG27CaptStubing]

You get what you pay for... If the numbers are there that support this type of behavior then the best bet is not to buy anymore games...

[InfiniteStates]

Originally Posted by Flying Coffin

Why is everybody being so coy about mentioning the holding back of game content so the publisher can charge for it later? It's the biggest rip off on the 360 no matter what company is doing it.

Because that is covered in other threads. And it's on the disk because it was rewarded early to people who pre-ordered.

Originally Posted by Flying Coffin

And when publishers complain about modded consoles and pirated games that have all content cracked and open for use I really don't feel any sympathy when I see mercenary shit like this going down.

And it's exactly this attitude that forces publishers to charge more for games and devise this "mercenary shit". Games are not cheap to make, and pirates do to the games industry what the a-holes that drive around without car insurance do to your car insurance premium.

[JG27CaptStubing]

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Ah right, so BoP was never meant to try & mimmick a fantasic experience as 2001's IL-2 STURMOVIK! I get it now! The name kinda suggests to me that it's going to be a slight representation of the series ... IL-2 STURMOVIK: BIRDS OF PREY. (Bit of a hint in the title

They just leveraged off of a title that is clearly one of the best if not the Best WWII sims of all time.

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

Hey I'm all for the arcade mode to attract different ppl, I was led into thinking that I was to be catered for also!!!

And what gave you that idea? The boomarang controller and the lack of TIR support? Come on you had to have known that if it was headed for a console it wasn't going to be the same experience.

Let me ask you this... Can you name a better Console based WWII Combat Flight Sim?

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

I bought this title on multi platforms because I was told by the devs in its build up that I, the so-called PC SIM hardcore would be more than at home & that it was a faithful console experience worthy of the series so if you're sick of the whining Inf States, stop reading this thread!!!!

Well I guess that call comes down to your opinion of the game. I think it does the console justice and it gives new folks to the genre what could be had in the PC world. It is what it is...

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

It's an Il-2 with most of the cockpits missing, a belly achingly laughable bomber experience straight out of Blazing Angels; it's an IL-2 where t/o & landing is seen as UNIMPORTANT, where a simple skirmish modes omit next to any form of diversity, a game that fails on every level other than looks IMO.

Well the game designers probably took all those things into account when it was conceived. The premise was most likey a compromise. Do you know how long it took to create IL2? Several years in the making.

The world of games has changed. With newer platforms like the Xbox 360 and the PS3 publishers and developers are in a rush to get new products out especially right now. That is a fact. It's sad but if you think about it most console games aren't meant to last. They don't develope game engines and products like IL2. IL2 1946 is almost 9 year old game. Game developers want you to get your 40-70 hours worth of play and move on to the next title (more revenue)

Console games aren't meant to have extensive replayability. That's why you don't see a heck of a lot of combat flight sims anymore.

Oleg hit the nail on the head. Build something long term then release new addons for the PC market. Rince and repeat. For consoles its about getting you to buy IL2 BOP version 2.

Welcome to the new world of gaming