Don't you feel ripped off as a console gamer?

Houndstone Hawk · #1 10-06-2009, 04:34 PM

Before the loyal disciples jump in with all guns blazing, I am a fellow gamer that has grown tired of the pc community, having to shell out constantly for upgrades etc in order to stay at the cutting edge of gaming & like many other gamers, I now want to enjoy a great experience on a great console, from the comfort of the sofa in front of a nice big LCD HD TV.

I've stuck to my word so far; I've started posts here, airing my views re: this title & I am far from a fan but I have done the right thing & left the game, left the community & its forum so as not to want to ruin it for the guys that do enjoy this game ... When you give ur view & realise you have bought something it's not, what's the point in staying around moaning about it.

It's just that 2 things have since come to my attention & as a customer of console software & products, I just want to know if it's just me that feels so underwhelmed, let down & cheated?

I won't dwell on my many disappointments in this title & will not compare it to its PC counterpart (although why I feel I shouldn't is perhaps strange as for one, it is a title that shares the esteemed name to an untouchable pc combat sim & so why shouldn't it be compared, & another; its pre-build up was to always maintain its realism & immersion that I personally believe, falls way short of even Over G Fighters).

Firstly there's OPERATION FLASHPOINT: DRAGON RISING. The original was a masterpiece & even the last gen xbox saw a great port over that treated the console gamers with respect, in keeping every aspect of the game intact, which included the powerful mission editor; it was great fun.
Along comes the much waited Dragon Rising & the console community are now told that although the game will be some 15 to 20 quid dearer than the PC offering, it will ship WITHOUT any form of mission editor & therefore any form of replayability whilst the PC gets the works as per usual. (Shopto.net are pre ordering it on pc for something like £1

.

This is mirrored a treat in IL-2 also. Wanna take off & land in PC IL-2; fine. Don't wanna bother but instead set up a quick training type battle in just a few clicks that gives you the choice of multiple wingmen, fellow bombers & such against a multitude of enemies in mixed aircraft, fine also. How about a more detailed tool to create an entire mission? ...go for it, it's all there & the best thing. You only ever needed around 4 or 5 keyboard inputs to create all of this. You telling me that todays consoles cannot harbour this ability to give a console gamer this option when say the original xbox proved otherwise with op flashpoint 1 & even Far Cry?
Imagine the replayabilty you would be having if you could choose to simply start your training mission from the ground & return there, to fly with a few more wingmen. Just that would do wonders. I'm not even asking for the flyby cam anymore or even any form of visual replay theatre (although how a game of this calibur ever thought it could do without it is way beyond me).

Secondly, & the final insult is the absolute JOKE re: this DLC & NOT FREE AT THAT!!!!!
I was so looking forward to this title for such a long time that I stupidly ordered it for both my xbox & PS3 as I just knew that it would be a different experience with each consoles. Nobody forced me to buy them, that's true but I did right enough. It's a shell of a flight game as it is & an extremely broken one at that but to charge gamers what could arguabley have been in the title in the 1st place is an absolute joke. £40 for a console title that is worlds apart from the IL-2 Sturmovik Series isn't enough then.

OK I am from a community that makes skins for IL-2 online for ppl to share & vice versa. IL-2 1946 that came out only a few years ago was the complete series in one & cost in the region of £25 with the addons that were boxed with a dvd & instruction booklet were around a tenner online & not to mention the replayablity still today in new aircraft being made, all free ofcourse etc (just check out youtube).

I want desperately to not feel cheated or patronised as a console gamer. We're not all MarioKart, Blazing Angels, COD arcade heads. Most ppl probably on this forum would wish for something more for what they're paying in comparison to the PC populous.

Who here, took a little comfort from the campaign missions in having the option to try to make it back to base & land? And even that was taken away from you after the 1ST THEATRE!!!!

Devs. Want my money? Simple! I have paid for a great, very powerful, all singing, all dancing console machine here & pay far more for a console game to a PC equivelent. Just give me what the PC boys have got or somewhere close. All I want is the full game. I WANT IL-2 STURMOVIK!!!

Prob. no point in replying to this as I know from old, it's a waste of forum space, only used by the fanboys that copy & paste reactions like "stop crying" or "goodbye then" & for the latter it's prob. true as I'll take my whining posts away & let you continue to enjoy ur game in peace!!!

Rabin · #2 10-06-2009, 04:43 PM

I agree that consoles seem to get a raw deal as far as DLC and Editing goes.

One game that was willing to get past this was Farcry2 - it had the same map editor on 360 as on PC, and it still seems to be played today.

I was surpised that we didn't get a mission editor similar to the IL-2:1946 experience. It -is- great fun being able to set up a quick dogfight, or bom,bing run, with a few mouse clicks. I don't know why this wasn't included. It would be very, very easy to do on a console. (Pick a map, choose number of enemies, choose objective type, choose number of friendlies, choose weather/daytime - randomly generate it - go play!)

Computers, after all, are masters of randomly generating stuff from blocks/tiles/databases...

I often (cynically I know) wonder if they limit the content deliberately so they reduce the lifespan of the game and make people buy their next game. IL-2 has survived (even after Ubi/maddox abandoned it) on player generated content/mission editors/etc. and that means nobody at Ubi/Maddox is making any money on it any more...

Like I said - people call me cynical - I see it as realism. :p

SharpeXB · #3 10-06-2009, 05:00 PM

I like the XBox just fine for games but have moved on to the PC for one simple reason.
The XBox controller is not programmable. This makes the console effectively useless for anything more than playing the same game over and over unless you want to go through the hardship of learning all the controls again.
Look at IL2 compared to another flying game, Battlestations Pacific.
IL2 your joystick is the left thumb but in BSP it's your right
All the FPS games have similar commands but they're all programmed differently on the controller. It's just maddening.

Raw Kryptonite · #4 10-06-2009, 05:29 PM

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

phlux · #5 10-06-2009, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

Well said Raw, saved me quite a few keystrokes

BTW, we still down for strike tonight? [/threadjack]

Raw Kryptonite · #6 10-06-2009, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlux

Well said Raw, saved me quite a few keystrokes

BTW, we still down for strike tonight? [/threadjack]

I'd like to, I should be on. If there are no rooms going I'll crank one up. Having a lot of fun with this P-47.

Houndstone Hawk · #7 10-06-2009, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raw Kryptonite

Battlestations isn't a flight game, it's a strategy game that as a bonus also lets you take direct control.

Do I feel ripped off? Not at all.
There's more involved in bring a console game out, part of which is better quality control than most pc games. Still bugs surely, but a much better experience than pc gaming. With pc gaming you spend a lot more on hardware that I have little use for other than gaming. With console gaming you spend less on hardware but more on games. But then there are used games and gamefly, so it's not like I pay $50-60 very often.

Keep in mind some of us game on both, it isn't necessary to be a "pc gamer" or "console gamer".

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

Raw Kryptonite · #8 10-06-2009, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Houndstone Hawk

So, there's more involved in releasing one third of a combat flight sim game on a console to, say, ARMAII?

So basically, we're enjoying better visuals but going vastly backwards as content goes.

Better Quality Control??? BOP???? Umm, very confused as this surely has to be one of the top 3 biggest bugbears of the title, unless ofcourse you refer to the console as a whole in which case I would agree!!!

ArmA2? I guess there is more involved since they have yet to find a publisher that thinks they can pull it off.
At least ArmA2 doesn't suffer from any bugs though, like you pointed out.

The patch 1.03 will solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

AI tweaking and balancing (especially AI infantry aural detection sensitivity lowered significantly)
Improved multiplayer and cooperative campaign (saving games, connection issues)
Numerous fixes and improvements in the Harvest Red campaign

Engine:

New: Functions getPosATL and setPosATL to allow controlling position relative to terrain.
New: command line option -showScriptErrors introduced to show errors in scripts on-screen
New: Direct analogue throttle and brake for airplanes now available.
New: More flexible configuration of Flares in the config (brightness, size)
New: Mission name (with * indicated unsaved work) displayed in the mission editor
New: Keyboard shortcuts in the mission editor
Improved: Better airplane HUD visibility both night and day
Optimization: Reduced frame stutter near map borders.
Fixed: Rainbow could be visible even with sun below horizon.
Fixed: 3D Editor - civilian and resistance units did not work correctly
Fixed: Sea surface was not rendered in NE area out of map.
Fixed: Terrain surface was sometimes using wrong parallax map.
Fixed: Grenade could sometimes destroy a building just by impact
Fixed: Radio messages sometimes echoed
Fixed: Team switch did not work when player died
Fixed: Reduced AI detecting slowly moving enemy vehicles by ear.
Fixed: Prevent killed AI units reporting who killed them.
Fixed: After respawn in MP, player's tasks, diary content and skills are transferred to the new entity
Fixed: Leaning 'limits' did not work with TrackIR
Fixed: MP client frozen in Receiving... screen sometimes
Fixed: Problems with saving and loading games in cooperative campaign

Missions:

Fixes and improvements in most of the campaign missions (Into the Storm, Harvest Red, Bitter Chill, Manhattan, Badlands, Dogs of War)
Improved: autosave logic to not save when it was not safe
Improved: Eye for an Eye in Scenarios

Data:

Fixed: various minor problems on buildings
Fixed: rocks destruction effect changed
Fixed: penetrability of some vegetation
Fixed: collision geometry of A_BuildingWIP
Fixed: react FSM core conversations
Fixed: cargo animations in LAV25
Fixed: indicators in Ka52 when using NVG
Fixed: cargo animations in BTR
Fixed: Warfare keypoint on Chernarus

The patch 1.04 will mainly solve and improve/balance the following in-game issues:
Major

Mouse controls: Improved mouse handling and responsivness
Stability: Fixed CTD caused by Voice Over Net when many players were speaking simultaneously and other stability problems
Sound: Fixed speed of sound simulation and other improvements
Multiplayer: fixed scoring, multiple mission parameters added and various other MP-related improvements

Engine:

New: Added mouse smoothing to game options.
New: Enabled multiple parameters for MP missions.
New: Mouse filtering strenght adjustable using mouseSmoothing=NNNN in user config.
New: Command line argument -cpuCount=NNN to override cpu count detection.
Improved: Mouse smoothing disabled for fast movement.
Improved: Mouse smoothing can be disabled in user profile file using line mouseSmoothing=0;
Improved: Audio volume settings.
Fixed: Soldier were walking on non-existant heaps of debris from destroyed buildings.
Fixed: Autocoordination caused rudder oscillation in high speed flight.
Fixed: Crashes in VoN when many players were speaking simultaneously.
Fixed: Immortal freezed soldiers occured in MP.
Fixed: Broken kill scoring in MP (two points for unit kill).
Fixed: Input key actions are no longer active while chat mode.
Fixed: Diag_log used with long text argument caused crash.
Fixed: Mouse scrolling in diary.
Fixed: Enemy kills made by player using stolen enemy vehicle are no longer considered as friendly kills.
Fixed: Switching to Utes from Chernarus caused Utes to contain infinite landscape.
Fixed: Time of day synchronized on client after connection to server.
Fixed: Speed of sound simulation.
Fixed: Fire from rifle distort sound.
Fixed: Crash by malformed input to a diag_log scripting function.
Fixed: Dark muzzle flash in some of the weapon optics.
Fixed: MP: Ships and boats used excessive bandwidth and CPU power.
Fixed: Players are no longer forced to reconnect after MP Load on server.
Fixed: Bike rider can be no longer healed.
Fixed: Sometimes crew of a near vehicle was visible through the vehicle.

Missions:

Improved: Communication menu updated to work with the new menu systems.
Fixed: Some persistent RE calls added for better JIP compatibility in campaign.
Fixed: Music was sometimes not playing properly due to faulty playMusic RE command call.
Fixed: Scene area cleared from exploding destroyed vehicles during various scenes.
Fixed: Possible appearance of immortal non-player characters in campaign.
Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Logos shown on client every time after JIP.
Fixed: (First to Fight) MP: Skeet shooting not working for clients after JIP.
Fixed: (First to Fight) Players not boarded in the chopper if they got in the towing tractor.
Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: Bad position of client players during converation.
Fixed: (Into the Storm) Some voice-subtitles difference in the first dialog.
Fixed: (Into the Storm) MP: No callsign for HQ entity on clients.
Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Clients not sitting on bikes after leaving the AAV.
Fixed: (One Week Later) MP: Player is no longer the co-pilot in the Osprey.
Fixed: (Manhattan) Escort chopper often shot down.
Fixed: (Manhattan) Palyer stuck in the animation after first scene.
Fixed: (Badlands) Prizrak no longer initiates conversation if Cooper is in a vehicle.
Fixed: (Badlands) Non-fucntional ending in campaign scenario.
Fixed: (Missing in Action) Redundant random sentences from Razor.

Modules:

Improved: Ambient Civilians module caused lag in MP due to window lights.
Fixed: Undefined variables in Ambient Civilians module.
Fixed: High Command could behave strange when someone added his own display event handler.
Fixed: Wrong positions of objects/logics.
Fixed: Performance problems related to Animals module in MP.

Data:

Improved: Some of the vehicle HUDs now contain missing info.
Fixed: Alignment issues on several wrapper UI screens.

Enjoy!

Ace Rimmer · #9 10-06-2009, 05:43 PM

I couldn't agree with the OP more. I've been a skeptic of this game since the demo came out on Xbox. I saw a lot of red flags early on that forced me to wait on purchasing BOP until I was certain it would deliver. Sadly it hasn't and I'm glad I never purchased it. Not sure how many of you played IL-2 1946 on PC but trust me when I tell you that IL-2 1946 is a better game. Please don't just think I'm merely trolling because I was really looking forward to BOP. And if you are enjoying BOP then it kind of makes me happy because for a lot of you this may be the closest thing some of you have gotten to a flight sim.

I understood early on that that console crowd forced the developers to really keep this game simple as far as sim potential is concerned. But, I wasn't ready for all of the simple things that they simply got wrong with BOP.

jaywinner · #10 10-06-2009, 05:55 PM

truth is, id prob never have played thios on the PC because i dont REALLY have an overly powerful PC. could there be a few more things done to this game to make it better, but i got a decent cheap flight stick and am really enjoying it so far, i think my biggest complaint is the lack of a community.