Campaigns as Axis?

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

im not pointing fingers , out of all the nations fighting in world war 2 , the russians amount of bravery and sacrifice IMO eclipses most other countries of the time.

Sorry, I was only quoting you as an expample. I wasn't directing this towards guiltyspark.

Not saying everyone was nessessarilly pointing fingers, but you know what I mean, but whatever. All in the past now and should stay there.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

not to butt in anton , but it is factual history.
http://books.google.com/books?id=00f...age&q=&f=false

Yeah, I know this book.
It is not historical book at all.
You know what historical facts means? There should be documents of somekind. Not something written by someone, but an official documents, statistics gathered, etc
There IS statistics about war crimes during world war.

And this is artistic book. Probably the author has fantasies about being raped, or whatever.
It is silly to compare historical facts with artistic book.

There is no idea in such comparsion. If you don't know any facts, than nothing to discuss.

[P-51]

Yes Anton, once again, your spot on! That book is mearly speculation

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

to deny it is silly

There is difference, between a crime commited by a person, and a crime commited by a government.
One - happen all the time, nowdays.
A lot of people being killed all the time, and most of them - not in a war (Iraq, Afganistan, or whatever). Most of them are being killed with a knife at home, are being robbered, or whatever.
Some of crimes are committed by soldiers.
But if they are being punished for that (and Soviet soldiers were EXECUTED for that. It is far more than what is done to most of the rapists nowdays), than it is not official, and it is not governmental war crome.
Axis, on the other hand, officially have given orders to kill (and not just execute. They made experiments on them, they haven't feed them, they use gas, etc) a lot of people (millions), just because they were of the other race.

That's uncomparable to personal violation of order or casualties. That's inexcusable.

And, btw, there was Nurnberg's trial about that, so there is nothing to discuss.
All Stalin's crimes (and yeah, there were Stalin's orders to kill citizens) were against Soviet people, not against German - and Germany was aggressor, so that could be an excuse.

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by P-51

Yes Anton, once again, your spot on! That book is mearly speculation

there are no documents of allied war crimes.

we won the war.

any documents that did exist were most likely destroyed by the occupiers

Do you think that japan would have tried its own people if they had won the war?

no

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

there are no documents of allied war crimes.

we won the war.

Do you think that japan would have tried its own people if they had won the war?

no

There are also no German documents of death/concentration camps either. Some Germans to this day refuse to believe the Holocaust was real.

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by xNikex

There are also no German documents of death/concentration camps either. Some Germans to this day refuse to believe the Holocaust was real.

actually there are thousands

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

there are no documents of allied war crimes.

we won the war.

They are.
There were even trials.
You simply do not know what are you talking about.
And comparing Nazis crimes to millions of jews, Russians, gipsys with a personal crimes of soldiers - is ridiculous. And annoying.
And, if you don't know, it is even illegal in a lot of countries - for a reason.

And I think, that if Axis would won the war - there wouldn't be 'trials'. A lot of people would be killed just on orders.

Do you think that japan would have tried its own people if they had won the war?

Once again - you don't know.
Japanese hadn't tried their war criminals AT ALL.
They lost the war, but scientists who personally and voluntery run experiments on a living people, and kill them are still getting pension.
As well as some of militaries who gave orders of killing Chinise citizens (not militaries), after they've finished their work, just to save some food.

[Anton Yudintsev]

Originally Posted by xNikex

There are also no German documents of death/concentration camps either. Some Germans to this day refuse to believe the Holocaust was real.

There are A LOT of documents.
Photos.
Movies.
Official orders.
You can visit Buhenvald yourself.

[H Lecter]

Originally Posted by xNikex

There are also no German documents of death/concentration camps either. Some Germans to this day refuse to believe the Holocaust was real.

Well, maybe not German ones. But someone would have needed a 100 years photoshopping all the pictures from Auschwitz, Mauthausen and all the other places. Furthermore it would discredit all the reports from inmates of those concentration camps who made it out alive - in most cases as the only remaining out of their families.

And the people who deny their existence shall tell me where all the jews and other undesired ethnic groups went that disappeared. Are they sitting on Mars or in Atlantis now..?

People can deny the moon landing if they feel like it, but I have serious doubts about their mental state when they start telling me that there is no evidence that concentration camps were real.

However, I also recognize that this is not your personal opinion, so this above outrage is not directed at you. The ones at whom it is directed will know.