soviet planes and 4.1x...

[1984]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Ok... I think I'm following now. (You're doing much better in English than I can do in Russian )

yes, and thx, partially for online-translators too, i just want to be understood...

So... LaGG-3 IT with its 37mm has 20 rounds and it should be 36. I think I've got it. And 170 rounds for the UBS.

has 22 shells, i was little wrong, and yes, should be 36 for ns-37/170 for UBS...

in fact, about ammunition for lagg-3 it, personally i'm saw only these 2 quotes from 2 documents, apparently, better could be only in clear original documents, which are in archives, or some serious peoples have some other reports...

Adjustable ammo belts would be amazing but it would also be a huge job. Still I'm sure it's possible with enough effort in research and coding to make it happen.

you mean like in clod? oh, it's too good and maybe impossible, and even not really need, i mean at least several historical (like these german typical belts which now in game) and semi-historical (ie presumptive belts which based on researches and logic) ammo belts, and maybe it's simple like change ammoload... personally i just can't imagine what il-2 with ns-37 have only HE shells or "2 he - 1 ap" if target not soft like locomotive or tanks or "marinefährprahm"... or have mainly ap shells against infantry/aa-positions... it's can be only error/problems with supply/accidentally... well, something like this...

[1984]

about props for yak-9, it's was very old post and now i remembered about "temporary technical description of aircraft yak-9", 1944 (approved on 27 may 1944, signed in print, apparently, on 7 july 1944), well, manual clearly says what vish-61p it's for yak-9, vish-105vs it's for yak-9 with ns-37...

but, in fact, apparently it's just details, because and before all types of yaks had around 535 kph at sl and more...

and what interesting, manual have clearly information about fuel load and oil load of yak-9d ie yak with 4 fuel tanks and special oil tank, full fuel load - 480 kg (310 in 2 "average" tanks, 170 in 2 "extreme" tanks, in total 480), oil load - 34 kg (oil system it's 14 kg ie 48 in total)...

so, for example, yak-9m with full weight 3095 kg (max. weights which i saw it's 3117 kg, min. 3050 kg), as typical front fighter (- 170 kg of fuel and, apparently, - around 10-15 kg of oil) have around 2910 kg, in comparison with first series of yak-9 in 42-43 which had around 2875 kg (around 18.5 sec of turntime) instead around 2835 of prototype (16-17)...

well, apparently, better aerodynamics and quality can give for yak-9m with around 2900 kg around 16-17 sec of turn time, plus, in end'44 vk-105pf2 gives for plane extra HPs, so... hmmm... wow......... but, it's only very simple calculations...

[panzer1b]

honeslty after giving it a try i will say that im getting better with the very low ammo load

its just so tough to last a while online when you have to stick to very close range shots which often miss

id say german planes are much better at sustained zoom tactics......

but then again as mentioned before russian planes were more escort and or defense and not free hunt like i like to fly



also the mgs are actually a bit better then i always anticipated, i have actually got a few spits with very high deflection angles (close to 90degree), so i will say they are alot more respectable then i had previously believed them to be

still 190s and anything armored is a pain in the arse to kill without cannons........maybee someone here has an idea how to kill em without gambling for luckshots with the single UBS

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by panzer1b

honeslty after giving it a try i will say that im getting better with the very low ammo load

its just so tough to last a while online when you have to stick to very close range shots which often miss

id say german planes are much better at sustained zoom tactics......

but then again as mentioned before russian planes were more escort and or defense and not free hunt like i like to fly



also the mgs are actually a bit better then i always anticipated, i have actually got a few spits with very high deflection angles (close to 90degree), so i will say they are alot more respectable then i had previously believed them to be

still 190s and anything armored is a pain in the arse to kill without cannons........maybee someone here has an idea how to kill em without gambling for luckshots with the single UBS

FW190s I use the ShVAK on. The UBS works well with the 109s. Basically how I work with those two. With the FW190 I aim for the wing and get as many 20mm hits on one wing as possible from a deflection angle. The fuselage is tougher and I only shoot there if I have a dead 6 approach and the FW190 is not evasive.

[1984]

some findings etc...

ONE of confirmations - 29:53 - yak-9t and only one type of shells, apparently, APs...


and, by the way, just about shells for guns... hispano - 20x110, HE-shell - 130 g in total, around 10 g of explosives... right? well, of course, better than shvak what personally i and see in game...

VYA-23 - 23x152, HE-shell - 201/15.6 - ie more explosives, almost like in minengeschoss if 18 g it's correctly, more weight ie more fragments which can damage pilot/fuel etc (it's fragment with weight around 5 g) and could be more fragments which can damage design of plane (it's fragment with weight around 20 g)...

well, and personally i can't say what vya really better than hispano... or difference very little (like and with shvak vs hispano)... or i'm mistaken...


pilot talks about repaired la-5 without sliding part of canopy, because pilot accidentally dropped this...

i think plane really could flew without canopy (f. e. no new canopy for repair at moment of sortie) and, maybe, for fun need to do this like for german planes...

oh, and he talks about polished la-5fn... well, some soviet pilots/regiments really no had too much combat sorties, so, i think it's could be not too rare cases, but and not really mass practice... my opinion, it's could be something like around 575-585 kph at sl of normal plane + 5-10...

well, all this another explanation why in RL especially russian planes had very different performances (here interesting photo, look at wing and again, how looks front bullet proof of la-5fn)...


about ammunition and ammo belts for cannons of all il-2s...

for example, vya-23 and shvak were not AT guns, and can destroy only light and some middle tanks (or some tanks in some places), but HE/HEI shells of these guns for example can't destroy locomotive in train, so - apparently, because i don't have documents and use only logic, some photos and rumors - belts could be very different and depends on type of targets...

if main target was front line/infantry/AA guns/trucks etc ie soft targets, in ammobelts main type was HE-shells or only he-shells, if targets were not soft targets like trains/tanks/251s etc, especially in 41-43, could be like "mainly AP" or something like this... shvak was not so powerful, so, apparently il-2s with shvaks could have mainly or only he shells in ammo belt... il-2s with ns-37, apparently, had belts like il-2s with vya-23...

so, my opinion, need to do this and i think what old system of loads does not comply with requirements of historicity and gameplay...


attached some examples (1, vya-23 and only HE shells, 2, can't understand, 3, wooden box with inscription "23 мм ОЗ" and really HEI shells)...

here just how looks belt with AP shells for ns-37...

here oruzheyniki s lentoy (apparently, 1 ap - 1 he), here apparently la-5 (1 he - 3 ap), here mainly HEs, here very interesting ammo belt of captured il-2 with vya-23 (personally i see APs and only one HE), here captured il-2 with shvaks (personally i see only HEs), here captured il-2 with different rockets (not sure, maybe, different fuses), here il-2 in 41-42 with something like m-13/rofs-132, here just how looks vya-23 in wing, here another captured il-2, here just il-2 with rockets, here mainly/only HEs, here only? HEs/HEIs, here different shells for shvak, here different shells for ns-37 (sometimes, 3 APs or HEs), here only or mainly one type (HEs?), here something like 3 AP - 1 HE?, here or here mainly AP shells, here can't understand, here only? APs (looks like il-2 two-seater with am-38f and new roketnye orudiya), here apparently mainly APs, well, and it's all what i found at this moment only in some sources...

and, just interesting pics with il-2, here il-2 in flight (look at fairing of landing gear, here, better quality), here rs-132 "short", here attack of il-2...

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by 1984

and, by the way, just about shells for guns... hispano - 20x110, HE-shell - 130 g in total, around 10 g of explosives... right? well, of course, better than shvak what personally i and see in game...

VYA-23 - 23x152, HE-shell - 201/15.6 - ie more explosives, almost like in minengeschoss if 18 g it's correctly, more weight ie more fragments which can damage pilot/fuel etc (it's fragment with weight around 5 g) and could be more fragments which can damage design of plane (it's fragment with weight around 20 g)...

well, and personally i can't say what vya really better than hispano... or difference very little (like and with shvak vs hispano)... or i'm mistaken....

The Hispano is very effective in-game and is probably tied for first with the MG151/20 for most destructive 20mm cannon... but the VYa 23mm is in a league of it's own. We have to restrict it from the loadouts on LaGG-3s for some online matches because a couple of 23mm VYa rounds will devastate a bomber utterly. The fire rate and muzzle velocity are lower than the Hispano but the sheer destructive power is incredible. Anecdotally with the VYa we see effects like engines being shot off, planes loosing both wings, or aircraft being thrown around (and sometimes into a stall situation). I'd say it is definitely more powerful than any of the 20mm.

Plus for tank busting the 23mm is noticeably more capable on rear armor decks on light and some medium tanks than the smaller 20mm cannons.

[Woke Up Dead]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The Hispano is very effective in-game and is probably tied for first with the MG151/20 for most destructive 20mm cannon... but the VYa 23mm is in a league of it's own. We have to restrict it from the loadouts on LaGG-3s for some online matches because a couple of 23mm VYa rounds will devastate a bomber utterly. The fire rate and muzzle velocity are lower than the Hispano but the sheer destructive power is incredible. Anecdotally with the VYa we see effects like engines being shot off, planes loosing both wings, or aircraft being thrown around (and sometimes into a stall situation). I'd say it is definitely more powerful than any of the 20mm.

In 4.10 when you hit an enemy's wing with the VYa, even from a distance, it would look like a giant hand slapped down on that wing: the enemy airplane would violently roll 90 or even 180 degrees. I think they changed that in 4.11, don't see that effect anymore. Agree that the VYa is more powerful than any 20mm, I wish more Soviet fighter planes had it.