NEW AND INTERESTING IDEAS FOR Birds of Steel Developers

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by perunasalaatti

Good idea but I in SIM mode airelon and elevator sensitivity should be always at max or sensitivity option completely off

Thats ok. But only if you have the ability to fully customise the stick setings such as dead zone and axis range/shape. Actualy your comment comes across as rather elitest.

Sensitivity has nothing to do with skill, its not a difficulty setting, its a controller seting. Someone playing BoP with a long flightstick might easily be able to fly with full sens because the turning sweet spot on the stick for each plane might be as much as an inch in movement making it easy to hold in that position. Compare that to someone using a joypad and a very short stick, the sweet spot is a little as 1 or 2 mm of movement, 1 mm to far an you stall and spin and this accuracy from just one thumb. No warning. 1 twich and... OH DEAR.

BoS definately needs stall identifiers like airframe shake, shuddering sfx and some FFB.

[MACADEMIC]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Thats ok. But only if you have the ability to fully customise the stick setings such as dead zone and axis range/shape. Actualy your comment comes across as rather elitest.

Sensitivity has nothing to do with skill, its not a difficulty setting, its a controller seting. Someone playing BoP with a long flightstick might easily be able to fly with full sens because the turning sweet spot on the stick for each plane might be as much as an inch in movement making it easy to hold in that position. Compare that to someone using a joypad and a very short stick, the sweet spot is a little as 1 or 2 mm of movement, 1 mm to far an you stall and spin and this accuracy from just one thumb. No warning. 1 twich and... OH DEAR.

BoS definately needs stall identifiers like airframe shake, shuddering sfx and some FFB.

Agree with you RP that the length of your joystick/flightstick would make a difference, but disagree that it has nothing to do with skill. I know a few who fly the P-51D5 in full sensitivity using a DualShock gamepad, and it's working fine (I'm one of those). It's an extra challenge to know how far you can take the airplane without stalling.

But I agree with you unreservedly that full customisation for all should be standard (which we'll see in BoS - Anton has confirmed this on the devs forum), and that a stall buffet would be a good thing to have. Although I must say that with custom control on the PS3, an approaching accellerated stall can be quite well recognized and countered as it is, in full sensitivity.

MAC

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

Agree with you RP that the length of your joystick/flightstick would make a difference, but disagree that it has nothing to do with skill. I know a few who fly the P-51D5 in full sensitivity using a DualShock gamepad, and it's working fine (I'm one of those). It's an extra challenge to know how far you can take the airplane without stalling.

But I agree with you unreservedly that full customisation for all should be standard (which we'll see in BoS - Anton has confirmed this on the devs forum), and that a stall buffet would be a good thing to have. Although I must say that with custom control on the PS3, an approaching accellerated stall can be quite well recognized and countered as it is, in full sensitivity.

MAC

Yes, sorry mac, I said that bit about skill wrong. Of course it takes a lot of skill to fly full sens with the pad. I meant that the skill of having a thumb that is super acurate to 1mm should not be a requirement to fly at the highest difficulty when others are using big flightsticks. I see it more as a gaming skill than a flight skill, If you know what I mean.

[olife]

hello guys,

i really love bop and very happy to have a sequel,that's very good.
but to be honest,i have a strange sensation...i don't know how is the online confort of bop in xbox,but in ps3,it is a really bad,yes i'm not afraid of my words,it is very bad... it is very interresting to speak about some news things we would have in bos but before,i think it would be good to fix some probs of online comfort...
more of 10 or 11 players out of 16 and u are sure there will be a lot of probs of laging,disconnection or others strange things!
it is that since the game came out!
maybe u will say me that it is "your"connection which is not good...probably but it not happened to me only!in 70 % of the online games ,there are always this sort of prob for 1 ,2 or even more players!why?it is the only game i see like it!
the strange sensation i have is that bop was complete let "for died" and i'm sorry to think ...i have a doubt for bos too.
i'm really sorry to be so wicked but it is a fact,the biggest prob of bop,and a very important prob i think,i just hope it will be better in bos...i understand it is impossible to have no probs in online game,but just want to have a "normal" situation like in many others games....

[MACADEMIC]

Originally Posted by olife

hello guys,

i really love bop and very happy to have a sequel,that's very good.
but to be honest,i have a strange sensation...i don't know how is the online confort of bop in xbox,but in ps3,it is a really bad,yes i'm not afraid of my words,it is very bad... it is very interresting to speak about some news things we would have in bos but before,i think it would be good to fix some probs of online comfort...
more of 10 or 11 players out of 16 and u are sure there will be a lot of probs of laging,disconnection or others strange things!
it is that since the game came out!
maybe u will say me that it is "your"connection which is not good...probably but it not happened to me only!in 70 % of the online games ,there are always this sort of prob for 1 ,2 or even more players!why?it is the only game i see like it!
the strange sensation i have is that bop was complete let "for died" and i'm sorry to think ...i have a doubt for bos too.
i'm really sorry to be so wicked but it is a fact,the biggest prob of bop,and a very important prob i think,i just hope it will be better in bos...i understand it is impossible to have no probs in online game,but just want to have a "normal" situation like in many others games....

Hello my friend,

I'm sorry this is still such a problem for you. It's an old story, development and updates for BOP has stopped a long time ago, and this has been much discussed here. We on the PS3 are still better off than our friends on the X360 who haven't even got a patch although Gaijin had made it. No game developer can do anything to improve his game if the publisher says no, which was the case with 505. The exception is only if they have an agreement from the beginning which allows the developer to bypass the publisher and do it themselves. Unfortunately in the case of BOP, Gaijin didn't have such an agreement. So they couldn't do anythng about it.

I personally don't share your fear that we'll this again with Birds of Steel, for various reasons:

• Konami is a much more reputable publisher
• Gaijin have continued development on their PC platform to improve MP
• they have reprogrammed MP from the ground up which now works flawlessly
• with BOS, Gaijin has the right to publish DLC and updates themselves in case Konami doesn't want to
• Gaijin continues to be very responsive to Community requests (although not here on this website)

So for now I think we have to live with the game as it is, both on the PS3 and on the X360. It has still a lot going for it, but I have no doubt whatsoever that Birds of Steel will have everything and more we dream of.



MAC

[olife]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

Hello my friend,

I'm sorry this is still such a problem for you. It's an old story, development and updates for BOP has stopped a long time ago, and this has been much discussed here. We on the PS3 are still better off than our friends on the X360 who haven't even got a patch although Gaijin had made it. No game developer can do anything to improve his game if the publisher says no, which was the case with 505. The exception is only if they have an agreement from the beginning which allows the developer to bypass the publisher and do it themselves. Unfortunately in the case of BOP, Gaijin didn't have such an agreement. So they couldn't do anythng about it.

I personally don't share your fear that we'll this again with Birds of Steel, for various reasons:

• Konami is a much more reputable publisher
• Gaijin have continued development on their PC platform to improve MP
• they have reprogrammed MP from the ground up which now works flawlessly
• with BOS, Gaijin has the right to publish DLC and updates themselves in case Konami doesn't want to
• Gaijin continues to be very responsive to Community requests (although not here on this website)

So for now I think we have to live with the game as it is, both on the PS3 and on the X360. It has still a lot going for it, but I have no doubt whatsoever that Birds of Steel will have everything and more we dream of.



MAC

hello teacher,

thanks a lot for this precize reply,it give me a lot of hope and yes i think konami is a reputable publisher.i'm really sorry to say all those bad words before,but day by days it become a real dream to play bop without probs and i finnish to loose my temper.in fact i wait for bos ,even count the months it stay before it will come out and just afraid to can't play confortable this game which will be,no doubts my new favorite!!
i feel better after your reply ,millions thanks teacher!!

[MACADEMIC]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Yes, sorry mac, I said that bit about skill wrong. Of course it takes a lot of skill to fly full sens with the pad. I meant that the skill of having a thumb that is super acurate to 1mm should not be a requirement to fly at the highest difficulty when others are using big flightsticks. I see it more as a gaming skill than a flight skill, If you know what I mean.

No problem RP. I agree, it shouldn't be mandatory for all in Simulator mode. But it would be real nice to have a Custom mode (which Wings of Prey has and which I'm pretty sure will find its way to Birds of Steel) with the option to set up a game for full sensitivity. You're right, it's a gaming skill but for me also somehow a flying skill, although it's true that a real airplane would give you MUCH better clues than a gamepad. For me however (personally) limiting the travel of your primary flight controls so that accellerated stall becomes impossible just robs the airplane of some essential flying characteristics which are part of flight.

MAC

[winny]

Originally Posted by MACADEMIC

No problem RP. I agree, it shouldn't be mandatory for all in Simulator mode. But it would be real nice to have a Custom mode (which Wings of Prey has and which I'm pretty sure will find its way to Birds of Steel) with the option to set up a game for full sensitivity. You're right, it's a gaming skill but for me also somehow a flying skill, although it's true that a real airplane would give you MUCH better clues than a gamepad. For me however (personally) limiting the travel of your primary flight controls so that accellerated stall becomes impossible just robs the airplane of some essential flying characteristics which are part of flight.

MAC

I think a better solution would be to change the input curve rather than the just clipping the end of the range off.. So changing the sensitivity still means that you can get to the full range of movement but it's initially slightly less responsive.

I use a TM Hotas and in the full sensitivity games I've played my main problem has been wobbling from side to side, not stalling, because of the dead spot.

Or maybe a deadspot calibration would sort it out?

[Shadowcorp]

Originally Posted by perunasalaatti

True but when maximum realism is wanted all sensitivity "aids" should be off because every plane has certain roll-, turn rate and handling behavior. It is true that it is controller setting but i see it also as a skill setting. When everybody has the same starting point it becomes a skill factor.



+1
Sound effects works well (as in il2:1946)

I'm sorry but thats too harsh a learning curve, what you say is fine for sim players, but realistic players wouldn't find it acceptable; i think i'm justified in saying. As people have already said gaijin shouldn't be alienating any part of their demographic just to please one proportion.

[winny]

Originally Posted by perunasalaatti

... It is true that it is controller setting but i see it also as a skill setting. When everybody has the same starting point it becomes a skill factor.

The problem is that not everyone is starting from the same point, I use a stick all of the time. It's not the same for me as it is for someone using a PS3 controller. Full sensitivity + stick = over correction central.


A quick point about connection issues - Connection is king in this game. (I have experience of this)

I was good at BoP (last year) on a 8mb connection then I moved house. Had a much poorer internet connection at the new place (3mb download)

All of a sudden I found I couldn't hit anything unless I was right on top of them (even then my bullets seemed to miss when I thought they should be hitting).

2 months ago I got fibre optic - 30mb D/L - 10 mb U/L and surprise surprise, I can now 'explode' people much easier.

I had suspicions that it was lag that made me unable to shoot straight, now I'm sure it is.