SHOOTING at the OLYMPICS

[von Pilsner]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

It's that I'm sick and tired of people that complain about gun ownership, as if that is the real problem behind violence, and not the totally lost values of modern societies.

I understand and agree, but it was the whiners thing that actually made me have to post... (and what MadBlaster said, but I don't expect him to have a reasonable discussion on the issue).

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

A 100 rounds magazine is surely OTT, and frankly it's just a useless piece of accessory(I don't understand people that like slaughtering their barrels by shooting that much in a row), but how is that different from owning ten 10 rounds magazines? A trained Car-15 owner can easily reload his rifle in less than 7 seconds.

The reload time gives people more of a chance to shoot back. (I don't know what OTT means) Spree shooters are often not trained gun owners and may take a bit longer to reload than you do. The kid in Aurora (I live in Aurora BTW and lost a co-worker in the shooting) was not some ex-military badass... he was a pissed off psychopath with no combat experience so his reload time would have been much slower (didn't he jam his assault rifle?).

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

"Assault rifle" is only a designation, an MP-44 is one, but it's also an extremely sought after collectable WW2 firearm, shall we ban it just cos it can cycle rounds on a semiauto mode?

Possibly (I am only vaguely familiar with the 1st assault rifle so I'm not trying to duck the question but it's 526am here and I don't wanna preach about something I am not terribly familiar with), but I don't believe that the MP-44 is being used in a ton of home invasions and crimes. The truth of the matter is that there are limits to the firearms we can legally own (in the USA) so it's really just a matter of where the line is drawn. Some see a waiting period or a background check as an affront to their freedom/liberty others see it as important for the public good. Honestly if someone needs a gun today... RIGHT NOW!!!! they probably should have to wait a few days to get it.

I am ok with waiting periods, background checks, & limiting the magazine size (I get that you think the mag size is irrelevant - we can disagree on that). are you against a reasonable waiting period and background check (even at gun shows)?

[von Pilsner]

Over The Top.... Just figured it out.

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

+ 100.

That idiot could have killed a lot more had he actually used some brains: if you really want to go on a shooting spree and really kill you'd need an AK and hollow points, not a 5.56 and FMJ ammo.
To me this is the sign of an alienated individual who grew up playing with FPS and wanting to be really behind a rifle and feel the thrill to shoot people. He didn't probably care about killing as many as possible, he probably only wanted to get his twisted fantasies to the real world, and as Nearmiss said, had he not readily available guns he could have used any other mean.

A killer is a killer, a gun is only a tool of choice.

Well, in my opinion something has to be behind the fact that there are 7 times more people being murdered in USA per 100.000 citizens compared to a country like Sweden where I live? It can't be that people are seven time more evil in the USA?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

In Sweden the most common murder weapon is a knife as firearms have been regulated for ages... Sure - the "real" criminals have no problem getting hold of firearms, and even automatic ones - but the people that are having some kind of mental trauma are not going to have an easy way of getting even a pistol, much less an AK... So when some poor kid with problems get an idea like this they will have no easy way of getting hold of a firearm without a lot of connections that they don't have.

Then there are actually a lot of firearms around in Sweden as a lot of people like to hunt and there is no problem getting a license for that, but a hunting rifle is not well suited for a down town or school "killing spree".

And of course - a country like Norway has a similar legislation and murder rate like Sweden but a man like Breivik still could do a horrible deed in the same fashion, so strict weapon control will naturally not stop the "real lunatics"... But I think that it will stop a lot of disoriented teenagers from doing something really stupid... When you have a firearm there is always a risk that you will use it in a situation where it only escalates a minor crime into a murder. A friend of mine has license for pistols and have a number of guns at home (among them a .44 Magnum), just like many US citizens. In Sweden that is not that common - and almost considered a bit "weird", but having a hunting rifle is not. One late night he woke up by a sound and saw someone trying to steal his Maserati. His first thought was to open his weapon locker and bring out his Baretta or .44 (just like most americans would have done I guess, defending their property?). Then he thought some more and called the police and stayed in the house with the lights out and they got there and cought the criminals... What do you think would have happened if he would have walked out with a gun in his hand? What if the car theif would have had a gun? Was the Maserati that was fully insured worth dying for? Was the car thief doing a crime that was worth getting killed for? What would have happened in a similar situation in Texas? The dilemma was unusual here as 99% of the Swedes don't have a Baretta in the wardrobe and calling the police would be the only option - or going out with the kitchen knife ... In my opinion a car is never worth someones life, even though he has a nice car

Then we had a conscription army in Sweden up until a few years ago so almost all male Swedes know how to handle an automatic rifle well - including me... I still feel no need to have one in my wardrobe even though I had a good time in the army as I really liked the shooting exercises, especially night time M240 shooting with tracers etc

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

..and you think that a revolution would happen in such a black or white scenario? Do you really think that the whole Army would obey the Government? Do you guys have televisions? Are you seeing what's happening in Syria?



You see, you're yet again talking like someone who never really had anything to do with guns. I had to serve in the Army (I was the last generation that had to do it compulsory) and I learned to handle a gun(and a machinegun, a mortar, a field cannon, granades and many other amenities). The best thing I've learned from it though is respect and responsibility in the handling of a firearm, because those are the first things your drill sergeant teaches you.
Because of my interest in WW1/WW2 and shooting I have a modest collection of rifles and pistols: it's a fascinating and interesting hobby, but of course to the uneducated it's just "an arsenal". I normally take people like you to the range and let them live the "shooting range experience", where not only you get to shoot firearms of course, but you get to talk with a lot other people who're passionate like myself, just to understand that we're not all deranged lunatics on a spree, but there are many professional, serious and respectable members of society who share a hobby. The bullet coming out of the barrel and hitting the target is only a part of the hobby, there's a lot more into it.

What scares me is the people like you, who don't know about it but feel the urge to say we're doing wrong, and would rather get rid of firearms and not have a problem with it just because it's not their hobby. I could argue that using a simulator or any other game that allows you to deliberately shoot at stacks of people is wrong because it desensitises young people to violence...

And history says you're wrong btw, and there are more than a couple of examples, like the one below...



...so it's better to bow to a violent dictator than trying and fight him? Lybians and Syrians might have a lesson or two to teach us..

Open a history book and read about the demise of the GDR. That is how a society fights for their freedoms. Not a single shot fired by the people and they were facing life long imprisonment or death. That is admirable behavior, not running round in a wild mob armed to the teeth.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

The man in Colorado had 30 grenades in his apartment rigged with gasoline to cause further disater, if his apartment was entered.

If that guy didn't have access to a gun... what do you think he would have been able to do with 30 grenades in a dark theatre? He would have killed and maimed 100s more. If every grenade killed 8 people the count would have been 240 dead. That would be a reasonable assumption for a densely crowded theatre.

He could have stood off in a dark corner and tossed grenades into the crowd. It would have taken too long for people to recognize what was happening or who was doing it. Average Americans have never experienced that kind of terror attack.

Take away the guns and the killers will find a way...especially if they are unrestrained by any reprisal power from their victims.

Don't even think it's the cops driving the neighborhood that are going to stop anything. What took the cops so long to stop the Columbine and Aurora massacre..oops they didn't stop them. They waited for the shooting to stop. The cops were in protect thyself mode. The cops waited for the shooting to stop...then they did their number one specialty of herding the sheeple.

There are numerous criminal combative situations that take place all the time and the criminals are subdued by some average citizen with a gun. Those crimes prevented are reported locally, but national media doesn't report them.

So do you buy your grenades at the greengrocer along with some apples???

These military grade arms ought to be completely out of reach of the civil population, that is a given. How could anyone assume that restrictive laws on firearms would leave these untouched?

[Kodoss]

Have anyone of you read this article?
http://www.newsonjapan.com/html/news...icle/97558.php

By the way, when sick people want to kill someone, it doesn't play a role which weapon they use. But by restricting the possibility of getting weapons (which are only made for killing) you also lower the innocent victims.

And for thouse who say they need it to protect themself from their own country are either nuts or have no faith in democraty, free press and modern communication instruments.

We are not living in the dark ages anymore.

Edit: at least in the socalled civilised world.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by Zorin

Open a history book and read about the demise of the GDR. That is how a society fights for their freedoms. Not a single shot fired by the people and they were facing life long imprisonment or death. That is admirable behavior, not running round in a wild mob armed to the teeth.

That. And not only in the GDR, but in the whole of the eastern european countries as well, with the exception of Romania.

Want to know what happens to a society that is armed? Look no further then Lybia or the rest of the arab spring revolutions, Syria being the latest contender. Mob Rule, death tolls rising, wholesale destruction and after so much blood was shed, the results are the same conditions under a different name.

More freely avaiable weapons in irresponsible hands = rising death toll. That is such an easy equation you need a whole Enceclopedia of arguments to fog this down in a debate.

[F19_Klunk]

funny read on an extremely serious topic... amazing that so many suffers from severe paranoia.

Comparing USA with countries by such as Syria and Libya, governed by dictators who willingly slaughters the population? Are you for real??

Btw....no one today is seriously arguing to take away all guns from homes in the States.. (and actually trying to do so would be a nightmare for anyone who cares about liberty and privacy, given that guns are stashed everywhere and may well outnumber people in America.) Instead, most proposals seek to regulate rather than prohibit--limiting the amount and type of ammunition, restricting the number of guns one can buy etc etc.

who needs a bloody machinegun!?!? I tell you who: crazy f**cs.

are you seriously promoting is should be this easy to buy a *** AK47???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baPgr_tw79Q

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raaP5...feature=relmfu

if you think this guy is crazy, u need a reality check.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by F19_Klunk

funny read on an extremely serious topic... amazing that so many suffers from severe paranoia.

Comparing USA with countries by such as Syria and Libya, governed by dictators who willingly slaughters the population? Are you for real??

Well, there must be a common "iissue" that leads to a similar gun related death toll in those countries

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by von Pilsner

The reload time gives people more of a chance to shoot back. (I don't know what OTT means) Spree shooters are often not trained gun owners and may take a bit longer to reload than you do. The kid in Aurora (I live in Aurora BTW and lost a co-worker in the shooting) was not some ex-military badass... he was a pissed off psychopath with no combat experience so his reload time would have been much slower (didn't he jam his assault rifle?).

That's the point, someone who's not an expert will get a 100 rounds magazine and think he won't have problems with it, but those things are prone to jamming and the continuous shooting with no breaking can overheat and jam the gun as well (a good quality Car-15 won't, but there are many replicas, Norinco above all, that are not worth the materials they're made of..).

He was just a deluded individual who fed himself with FPS games and that was left alone long enough to become that dangerous. Maybe we should look at that, maybe we should consider that the path to reach that sort of derangement is not an overnight spark, but often made of months, years of isolation.

As for the other posts after yours, I would like to say again that I am for a more intelligent and strict control on firearm licenses, not for giving them to everybody. And feel free to believe in fairy tales, if with GDR you're referring to Germany Democratic Republic, they overcame only cos Russia crumbled, otherwise they'd still be living the commie dream and spying each other under the Stasi.

If that horrible assault happened in Texas or Alabama you can rest assured that someone in the public would have been armed and could have put a couple of rounds in the idiot's head..