Complex engine management

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by pupaxx

My question is:
all this work load in CEM does it affects only human pilot or even AI?
What I look for in a Flight simulation is certainly the realism. Some of you rightly said that CEM exige a disciplined management for each inflight situation (take-off, climbing, climbing on combat power, cruise, pursuit and descent). Will we the sole to face this load in combat or AI enemy as well will experience major difficulties in shot us down?
Cheers

According to one of Luthier's posts, the AI uses a simplified routine in order to not degrade performance too much but in a way that doesn't let them "cheat" like they did in IL2. So, maybe the AI doesn't have the full CEM routine but they are realistically limited in flying with the settings specified in the pilot's handbook and not on 100%+wep without overheat like they did in IL2.

Azimech's idea seems pretty close to that, no complex AI routines to slow the game down but a set of AI rules depending on their "experience":

Originally Posted by Azimech

Good question.

Maybe there's a simple way to simulate such things?

Rookie: adjusts all settings but much too slow but precise. This one has almost no SA. The ones with too much eye for detail for their own good.
Overheating doesn't happen very quick but forgets to look out his window and sometimes becomes one with his instruments when he digs a hole half way to New Zealand.

Or, the ADHD type: adjusts all settings much faster than an ace but overshoots his chosen values and engine limits all the time, and once in every 3 times forgets one (oil radiator, coolant radiator, supercharger or prop pitch). Forgets to check temperature 50% of the time and when overheating, tends to overreact so performance drops much more than needed. When being chased (stressed) tends to overheat 90% of the time within one minute. Loss of engine power during combat 10% every 5 minutes. Chance of destroying the engine 75% within 15 minutes during combat.

Average: Forgets a setting once every 6 times, quicker to respond to overheating, Loss of engine power 10% every 15 minutes ...

Veteran: Forgets a setting once every 12 times ...

You get the idea.

And the nice thing is, just using counters and timers you don't really need AI routines, because in forgetting stuff there is no intelligence involved

And if the AI wants to set anything, it chooses a value, say 65% throttle, what the game could do is deviate from this setting with a fixed percentage as defined by the skill of the pilot. So the rookie sets 65% but it turns out to be 50% or 80% until the AI chooses a new value. A veteran would get 68% or 62%,

An Ace would be one with his machine (and this way they really become deadly!!)

Imagine formation flying with a bunch of rookies

So there's hardly additional CPU load and such a system could be implemented within a few days, if not present.

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by JG53Frankyboy

at least the manual say that the 109 has manual pitch only... that can be tough !
true , you havent to care about mixture in it

For now, true, but with the war going on the Allies are still mostly stuck with manual labor, while the German planes are fully automated.

[MD_Wild_Weasel]

omg, this is gunna be so dam cool, only one more day to go and it should be through my front door. CEM what seperates the boys from the men, (just hope i can be that man )

[Multimetal]

I think most people are going to have to do a lot of practice flying to become proficient with their aircraft. There's a good reason why military pilots are trained on aircraft with gradually increasing complexity, as managing a WW2 era fighter effectively takes an awful lot of pilot skill and training! All this being modeled in the sim is an extremely good thing IMO.

[Azimech]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

According to one of Luthier's posts, the AI uses a simplified routine in order to not degrade performance too much but in a way that doesn't let them "cheat" like they did in IL2. So, maybe the AI doesn't have the full CEM routine but they are realistically limited in flying with the settings specified in the pilot's handbook and not on 100%+wep without overheat like they did in IL2.

Azimech's idea seems pretty close to that, no complex AI routines to slow the game down but a set of AI rules depending on their "experience":

Let's hope TD will incorporate this for 4.11.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Zoom2136

Not really IRL if your EGT are to high you run the risk of detonation or off burning off an exhaust valve. So to high EGT are a no no...

My 2c

Should have added: 100% correct mixture. I my opinion a rookie pilot will more likely over rev than miss the proper mixture. That is why I wrote it as it is.

[seb120]

Here are a couple things i found on the bf109E
http://www.kurfurst.org/Performance_...chreibung.html Use google translate if you dont speak german.

and this for the D.B. 601A and 601N engine:
http://www.kurfurst.org/Engine/Boost..._increase.html

[JG4_Helofly]

Originally Posted by seb120

Here are a couple things i found on the bf109E
http://www.kurfurst.org/Performance_...chreibung.html Use google translate if you dont speak german.

and this for the D.B. 601A and 601N engine:
http://www.kurfurst.org/Engine/Boost..._increase.html

Thx for the links.
Apparently these figures don't match the ones in the COD manual. In COD the 109 is 40km/h slower at o m and has a 5 sec worse turn time... Are these infos from Kurfurst reliable?

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Moggy

Absolutely and if memory serves the maximum amount of time allowed with the boost plug pulled was 5 minutes with Rolls Royce engines. During the Battle of Britain, the pilot also had to record if he pulled the plug in his combat report.

Yup, then the Spit was taken out of service for an overhaul and the pilot had to justify it. I'm really looking forward to this engine control, no more instant moves and blasting the wep

We already use HUD off in our campaigns so we're used to RPM and boost control but it's not really modelled in '46

[Osprey]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

It's the same thing with all USAF fighters. To execute a simple boom and zoom bounce with the P-47 you need to:

lower the turbocharger RPM (this is like a throttle for high altitudes, but it takes time for the turbo to spool up/down and this makes it difficult to judge the fine-tuning of it all)

set the pitch/RPM for the dive

possibly lower the throttle too (if it's a long dive and you want to accelerate slowly)

close the cowl flaps (they can get damaged at high speeds, these control the cylinder temperatures)

adjust the intercoolers for the temperature you expect to meet at the lower altitudes as you dive (these control carburetor temperature: too low and it freezes and stops fuel to the engine, too high and the mixture is too lean to produce power and causes overheat in the cylinders)

adjust the oil coolers in a similar manner to intercoolers (low oil temp means the oil is thick and doesn't flow or lubricate well plus oil pressure gets high and you might burst a pipeline, high oil temp means the oil breaks apart/dissolves, lubrication is bad because the oil runs through the parts too fast and it may even catch fire)

The only help in all this is that oil temps change slower than carburetor temps and cylinder temps so you can afford to make a mistake, plus late war US aircraft usually had automatic oil cooler control.

After you do all this and dive, you can attack your target. When you pull back up from the dive to climb away you need to do all this in reverse.

In the series 'Hunters Of The Sky' there is a PTO '47 pilot interviewed and he said how he was escorting B-17's back home. They were on the home run but still away from base, but not too far. He said he's setup his machine for a comfortable cruise at which point he began to start crying during the interview as he told that his personal complacency had cost the lives of 10 men when a Zero burst out of the sky and shoot down one of the 17's. He recalled being unable to prepare his machine for the dive in time to stop it. It was very sad because clearly he'd carried this guilt with him forever afterwards.