Aircraft stall way to easy?? game dosent 'feel' like IL:2

[Cynabal]

Ok i just tried the IL:2 Demo on xbox, and man simulator mode is harder than simulation mode on IL:2 PC , i dunno whats goin on here but ive been playing IL:2 since it was first released on the PC years ago, and never had this problem.

Now im very much used to playing IL:2 with a pad, I used to use an old Gravis Exterminator back in the day as it had slider for throttle and analog shoulder paddles things for rudder, and i used to fly with realism on max, recently ive been playing IL:2 1946 with a modified origional Xbox pad, and can also fly on full realism without a problem.

But as soon as i tried BOP i was stalling out almost every turn and the flat spins are almost impossible to recover from?? also no blackout/red out? no flutter sounds? im guessing it could be due to the fact ive got no Audio or visual que's to when im pushing the plane to hard??

If not there is something very wrong here, ive tried lowering the sensitivity of elevators and ailerons to no avail, im hoping this demo is not how the final game is going to be, because if it is im going to stick to 1946 as its actually fun to fly the planes.

I dont really know but this dosent feel like IL:2 at all guys, its kinda a shame as i dont really want to play on arcade mode, as i could just play blazing angels.

Im hoping there is still some fine tuning to do with the control inputs, and maby few more tweaks to the flight model. And im really hoping we get to map our own controls!! id like to use the shoulder buttons for rudder.

Overall i hope the DEV's have some more tweaks to make, since the game isnt due out for a month, but ive got a horrible feeling this is how the final game is going to be and your going to have alot of dissapointed IL:2 fans.

On a good note tho the visuals are outstanding (apart from the tracers need to stand out more, hard to see where your rounds are heading)

[juz1]

turn down sensitivity of stick about halfway then tweak to comfort...
________
MARY JANE (http://maryjanes.info/)

[TexRoadkill]

It's not that hard to fly. :P

[Kartman013]

Yep, turn down the yaw and roll sensitivity to about half-way. That should do it. The flight dynamics in this version are excellent. ;)

[xNikex]

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8635

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=8483

[David603]

To give Cynabal some credit, he has obviously tried the fix to the stalling problem by turning down sensitivity, and so probably knows about the to threads brought up there.

Also, he is talking about possible differences between the PC Il2 flight models and those in Birds of Prey, which is a related but different issue, so it doesn't really need to go in the same thread.

I'm not sure if the flight models are the same anyway, because I have been playing the original Il2 on my laptop with a 360 controller, and it seems harder to stall the planes than in Birds of Prey, even with the sensitivity turned down in BoP. However this could be because the original Il2 does not have the same aircraft as the demo, or it could be that the flight models have changed between Il2 and Il2 1946, which is where I assume the flight models from BoP come from. I will have to try Il2 1946 out on my proper PC with a 360 controller when I next go home from Uni to be sure.

[Cynabal]

Well i turned down the elevator sensitivity a little more to 10 and it stops the dead stalls, but the aircraft still dont like turning and just dont feel like the PC version, its even the lightest turn trys to induce a stall, atleast now its playable, but still think it needs some love.

Also they should default the sensitivity at half when the game ships or there going to have alot of people who litterally play once and never again.

I still think the game needs better audio and visual que's to when your pushing the aircraft to hard, would be nice if xbox pads had haptic feedback :o

[Porcho]

I'm sorry, but to be honest, in my opinion... I just tried lowering my sensitivity, and I find that to be such a cheap fix. To me its like cheating, only the game supports it.

Online, people are going to play the way the game actually is, and then some will make this small adjustment, and fly the plane like an ace because of that.

I doubt pilots had turned down the sensitivity of their sticks in real life, and flew without the worry of stalling. To me, the game turns into Arcade mode when you do that.. but this is just my opinion.

[David603]

Real pilots actually had to pull back on a stick that took an appreciable amount of force to use, especially at high speed, where often it would not be possible to pull back the stick hard enough to stall the aircraft.

The little analogue stick on a controller can be pulled all the way back at any speed and is far more sensitive than the flight stick in an aircraft, so tuning the sensitivity so that the plane will only stall at low-mid speeds when the stick is pulled back all or almost all the way back is not cheating.

[Desode]

To give Cynabal some credit, he has obviously tried the fix to the stalling problem by turning down sensitivity, and so probably knows about the to threads brought up there.

Also, he is talking about possible differences between the PC Il2 flight models and those in Birds of Prey, which is a related but different issue, so it doesn't really need to go in the same thread.

I'm not sure if the flight models are the same anyway, because I have been playing the original Il2 on my laptop with a 360 controller, and it seems harder to stall the planes than in Birds of Prey, even with the sensitivity turned down in BoP. However this could be because the original Il2 does not have the same aircraft as the demo, or it could be that the flight models have changed between Il2 and Il2 1946, which is where I assume the flight models from BoP come from. I will have to try Il2 1946 out on my proper PC with a 360 controller when I next go home from Uni to be sure.


They are the same flight models as the pc ver. This was confirmed by Anton on here when Buggins asked him about it, and another member of the Dev team confirmed it for me on the Il2 Twitter site.
DESODE

[Porcho]

I know what your saying David, but thats not really my point.. if someone turns the sensitivity down, and others online don't, then one has an advantage.

To me, they should fix the sensitivity so its more realistic, and the same for everyone.

That way everybody it experiencing the same characteristics as the other, and thats to the only way to truely show off skill, who can control the plane better then the other.

Not changing sensitivity so one guy can fly a plane like a god, and the other having trouble keeping the plane straight, you know what I mean?

[David603]

Yeah, I see your point, and I think you are right that the default should be lower, but I'm sure most players on Realistic and Simulation will figure this out themselves.

[SlappyDingle]

Ugh. I'm with the OP on this one. The Tiger Hunt mission is a painful game of monkey in the middle where I struggle to turn around only to be zoomed past in the other direction. And this is supposed to be the vaunted P-51 Mustang?!

[Omykron]

and the flat spins are almost impossible to recover from??
flat spin or deep stall, is almost impossible to recover IRL.

[Zensuji]

The default sensitivity should be lower. The way its currently set up you dont use anywhere near the full ROM at the expense of precision.

[mondo]

I doubt pilots had turned down the sensitivity of their sticks in real life, and flew without the worry of stalling. To me, the game turns into Arcade mode when you do that.. but this is just my opinion.

Actually while they couldn't turn anything down, Capt Eric Brown reviewed IL2 some years back (he is probably the only man to fly almost all the planes in IL2 and has more world records and firsts to his name than I've had hot dinners in 31 years) and his recommended controls scheme were completely dumbed down. He said they provided a much more realistic experiance of flying. Now I'll go by his opinion on this as he's just a little bit of a living legend.

The aircraft and controls are designed to let the control surfaces move to there complete deflections at the same time as having a pressure restriction put on them. I think this is why his controls were dumbed down allot.

To be honest though, I'll get a 360 compatible stick before I buy this as moving an aircraft with a 1cm long stick is just asking for trouble when a yoke/stick was 2ft long IRL so they had much more precise control.

[mondo]

I know what your saying David, but thats not really my point.. if someone turns the sensitivity down, and others online don't, then one has an advantage.


I don't agree. Pilot A has unchanged controls and is jerking about in his movments, loosing energy all the time. Pilot B has adjusted controls, he'll be smoother and thus faster. He'll still also have enough controls to pull off most set piece manouvers. Only in some kind of low speed turning/rolling battle you'll have problems but then if you only have one life, getting in that situation is pretty much signed your own death warrent regardless.

[David603]

I don't agree. Pilot A has unchanged controls and is jerking about in his movments, loosing energy all the time. Pilot B has adjusted controls, he'll be smoother and thus faster. He'll still also have enough controls to pull off most set piece manouvers. Only in some kind of low speed turning/rolling battle you'll have problems but then if you only have one life, getting in that situation is pretty much signed your own death warrent regardless.
I think that was Porcho's point anyway, that you could gain a significant edge by turning down the sensitivity of the elevator.

[TheBurningBlue]

In my view it was the right decision to have the option to change the sensitivity to the way you want it. Why is it a bad thing that you’ve got an advantage over the competition, after all it was your action/preparations that gave you this edge and therefore is it not deserved? Was it not possible to do adjustments to your plane during WW2? If a pilot had any problems with is aircraft would he say he didn’t want to make any adjustments because he didn’t want to cheat? The option to change sensitivity sounds (I have not played the game yet as I have a Ps3, I must admit this) as if it adds rather than takes away from the immersion. It would also be foolish for other players to keep on the default setting just to please the other players who choose to ignore the option for their own personal reasons. The world has to move forward, if that makes sense. You can’t wait for the competition.:)

But I'm new to simulation games so I don't know if I'm missing something

[Zensuji]

In all my years of FPS i never ever heard of 'changing sensitivity is cheating' ... i realize in BoP it is a bit different because if sens is too low you simply cannot stall/spin. But others argued that if too low you also start losing your edge against competition.

All-in-all i'd say that setting the right sensitivity (to your liking) also is a skill, therefor it can stay.

Last note, i still think the default sens should not be set on 100% (18/18) because ppl trying the sim mode and spinning on every turn isn't what you want to sell as first impression. I would have set the default at 10/18 or something (just as in regular FPS the default is always somewhre in the middle and never on the extreme)

my .02 cents

Good call.

After doing loads of flying with both pad and joystick I found that around 10/18 for pad and 12/18 for joystick is the sweet spot.

[butterfield]

Everyone needs to realize the stall problem should be fixed when Techland releases a patch for the Full game.

Anton already stated it is a glitch that no audio plays before you enter a stall. Trust me when you HEAR the plane shuddering you will ease off the stick.

[SleepTrgt]

Good call.

After doing loads of flying with both pad and joystick I found that around 10/18 for pad and 12/18 for joystick is the sweet spot.

I use pretty high sensitivity

[OntheCrab]

Everyone needs to realize the stall problem should be fixed when Techland releases a patch for the Full game.

Anton already stated it is a glitch that no audio plays before you enter a stall. Trust me when you HEAR the plane shuddering you will ease off the stick.

Yeah, it will help a ton. Agreed.

[Blue Leader]

Is it me or does the P51 seem slow and sluggish, i thought it was supposed to be nimble and fast!

[Flanker15]

Is it me or does the P51 seem slow and sluggish, i thought it was supposed to be nimble and fast!

Just the fast bit, it's a pretty average at low speed turns.

[juz1]

people are actually claiming adjusting sensitivity is cheating? Honestly the pedantry on this forum is reaching new heights...:confused:

of course you will callibrate a stick to suit your playing style..:!:
________
Clemente biondetti (http://www.ferrari-wiki.com/wiki/Clemente_Biondetti)

[H Lecter]

When playing with the AV8R I don't turn down the sensitivity. For most turns I only pull the stick halfway. Only at very low speeds I can pull the stick to its full extent without stalling.

When we'll have a sound indication about the impending stall I think it will be much easier to control the planes in IL-2.

[mondo]

Was it not possible to do adjustments to your plane during WW2?

Only in trim (German Flettner tabs are only adjustable on the ground so work within a speed range and many aircraft didn't have aileron trim either such as the Spitfire) which just means you can adjust your overall direction of flight without fighting the stick, its not the same as changing your sensitivity, however its still not cheating.

However I think its lost on some people that controlling a highly sensitive plane with a 1cm long stick when the real thing was controlled by a 2ft long solid control column is a bit different and sensitivity setting changes are more a requirement!

[Mr Greezy]

I agree with Max. There's never any griping when one adjusts the sensitivity in FPS games, which advanced players pretty much HAVE to do in order to compete in multiplayer. I don't understand this argument of "you shouldn't have to adjust the sensitivity in the game". It's kind of given that everyone's needs in terms of controller sensitivity is different and it's impossible to have a universal setting that everyone will enjoy.

If you play a game, any type of game, and you feel the controller is too sensitive, you turn it down. Or vise-versa. How is this suddenly a new concept?