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View Full Version : Anton now that you released the video showing off the arcade mode


guiltyspark
06-30-2009, 04:59 AM
You need to show the mode that people will actually be buying the game for which is the sim mode.

PLEASE focus a full video on the features of the advanced flight model , because all im seeing in feedback forums (not this one) is

"why isnt this on pc?"
"lol its dumbed down"
"wtf? arcade mode"

Please anton show of the REAL IL2 birds of prey , nobody watching these videos is interested in developers treating them like dumbasses

Tomo
06-30-2009, 05:17 AM
You've got a good point there. All the demonstration videos i have seen always end up with the person quickly switching to 3rd person view and flying around like a chump.

If there was an award for bad marketing this game would surely get the gold medal.

Kartman013
06-30-2009, 05:50 AM
Guys, do you want this game to succeed or to fail?

The success of IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey rests on the novice, arcade, "console gamer" (if you will), not us flight sim fanatics. There are far too few of us as it is. They are trying to make this game appealing to your average Halo, Gears of War, Burnout Paradise kind of guy. Its very important.

Don't worry - buy the sounds of things we will get our cake and be able to eat it.

Patience ;)

guiltyspark
06-30-2009, 05:51 AM
You've got a good point there. All the demonstration videos i have seen always end up with the person quickly switching to 3rd person view and flying around like a chump.

If there was an award for bad marketing this game would surely get the gold medal.

exactly , if people wanted to play an arcade flying game they would buy blazing angles

and studies show.......
that they didnt

thus they need to spend time on the simulation aspect

Mage_016
06-30-2009, 06:11 AM
If there was an award for bad marketing this game would surely get the gold medal.

Agreed. This is quite frustrating.. Even though I understand publishers choose to go closer to average console player, it's much bigger group than us who wants real simulators and more money will come from there. But still this game needs much more publicity.

Marchochias
06-30-2009, 07:32 AM
We already KNOW that the game has a simulation aspect, we know that it's hardcore, most of us decided that we were going to buy this game a long time ago.

It's the general audience that doesn't know about it, that needs to know what it is.

Are you not going to buy the game because we didn't get enough trailers showing off the simulation mode? If not, then your complaints don't have much of a point.

And people will ALWAYS be complaining on internet forums. That's basically all that ever happens on forums, especially videogame related ones. It doesn't mean anything. There isn't a single game or developer out there that hasn't been bitched at pointlessly a billion times on internet forums.

The hardcore flight sim niche isn't enough to support a successful game by itself, this is why there are so few flight sims out there. They need to market it to the general public.

The least we can do is have an attention span longer than the average 12 year old. If we're so sophisticated and elitist, we can at least wait a bit longer, can't we?

BadKarmaSutra96
06-30-2009, 08:37 AM
The point is that we've seen about a dozen vids about the game and they've all been arcade mode and 99% 3rd person view. I want to see them put someone behind the flight stick that knows how to lay down the smack in a warplane and actually tell everyone "look at us! hear us roar!" as the guy downs a few planes in a huge furball in cockpit view.

So in review. Get a good pilot, give him a flight stick and unleash him in a 8 v 8 or something dogfight. I want to see him tracking targets and watching the view move in the cockpit and *** blowing up. And if he gets shot down then WOOT it wont be a pushover game. And watch him bail out at the end LOL. 2 minutes of that should open some eyes and shut the rest of us up :)

Desode
06-30-2009, 08:41 AM
They need to blend the two modes together in their marketing.

The way to do it , is to start with showing the arcade mode in all its fun and 3rd person glory like we are seeing, but then they need to explain that after you master the arcade mode you can step it up and find out what it was really like as a fighter pilot in WWII with simulation mode.

They need to sell the sim mode as a replay value factor.
And show in cockpit video where your blacking out from pulling G's (sim mode)!


People will lose it when they see that much depth to the game.

One thing I know for sure, is that console gamers get into their games, and most of them play a game on every difficulty setting so they can get all the game's achievments. Plus if there is a fresh and new gameplay experince waiting on them while getting those harder achievments, then that draws them more into the depth of the game and its gameplay.

Honestly, I really am not a big fan of the word "Sim" any more. I feel like it scares a lot of people away. I personally love the "SIM" style gameplay. but I think that it needs a new name instead of simulation.

If I was involved in marketing this game I would have never even used the name "simulation mode" . I may have called it that in the instuction manual, but on the back of the box, or in comercials/trailers, I would have marketed it as "hard core mode".
Now I would have made a point of telling people in the "flight sim fanbase" that "hard core mode" is really simulation mode, but for marketing purposes I wouldn't use the word simulation.

This is kind of a example.
Look at all the people on console that play COD(call of duty) and a lot of people play hard core mode.

When cod 4 came out, almost no one played Hard core mode, but now it has grown to have a huge following. Its pretty much Cod's sim mode.
Its Activision's way of making COD a more ,sim style FPS, because 2 hits you dead,if you team kill 2 people your kicked. Its a very brutal and unforgiving mode of gameplay compared to the normal mode.

If you go and buy the Pc version of the game, Its all Hard core mode. There is no other modes on the pc like there is on console. Also pc doesn't call it Hard core mode.

Activision's marketing people understood that they couldn't just take the gameplay from the pc and give it to console. If they did, the majority of people on console wouldn't get into it because it was to brutal and unforgiving for casual gamers. (just like simulation games)

They then took the pc gameplay and made it its own seperate mode on the console versions. They added achievements that you can only get from playing "hard core mode" and in turn that mode picked up a huge following.

Marketing brilliance !

These are the kinds of things they need to do with the marketing of BOP.

PS, 1C, If you are every hiring in the marketing department, send me a PM !

DESODE

Stanrosquain
06-30-2009, 09:32 AM
We already KNOW that the game has a simulation aspect, we know that it's hardcore, most of us decided that we were going to buy this game a long time ago.

It's the general audience that doesn't know about it, that needs to know what it is.

Are you not going to buy the game because we didn't get enough trailers showing off the simulation mode? If not, then your complaints don't have much of a point.

And people will ALWAYS be complaining on internet forums. That's basically all that ever happens on forums, especially videogame related ones. It doesn't mean anything. There isn't a single game or developer out there that hasn't been bitched at pointlessly a billion times on internet forums.

The hardcore flight sim niche isn't enough to support a successful game by itself, this is why there are so few flight sims out there. They need to market it to the general public.

The least we can do is have an attention span longer than the average 12 year old. If we're so sophisticated and elitist, we can at least wait a bit longer, can't we?


You absolutely right. For a game works, it must reach the curiosity of the players by showing them a fun and simple game. Because a lot of people like arcade mode (proof with HAWX and Ace Combat)

But I think a video on the simulation mode would also be profitable.
We are a about a twenty to speak regularly on the forum jeuxvideo.com Nobody complained that this game will be too hard. For against, many people remain hostile to the game because they will believe this game will be like HAWX or Blazing Angel.
If there are people on the forum and those who have posted a comment on the videos in jeuxvideo.com (72 comments in total on the last video), there is a roughly fifteen players who will not buy this game, because they claim that a simulation game will never exist, they believe they are dealing with a Blazing Angel 3.

I think 1 video could change all that. The best would be to make a video in two parts with gameplay of the arcade mode in the first 2 minutes, and gameplay of the simulation mode in the final minutes. So people who just discovered the game and who search arcade will see that there will be two modes in the game with the arcade mode. In the same time, it will convince the players that seeks the simulation and were not attracted by the game before. :-)

(Sorry for my bad english)

Hineni
06-30-2009, 01:52 PM
Can we assume that Simulation mode still exists?

This is my first post on this forum, but I've been eagerly following this game and reading this forum since the beginning. I have a question about the number of difficulty modes in the game.

I know that Anton has previously stated that there would be three difficulty modes: Arcade, Realistic, and Simulation. Now, after 1C's preview of the game, both 1up and Gamespot have mentioned in their previews that there are only two difficulty modes: Arcade and Realistic.

So, I'm wondering, what happened to Simulation mode?

Raw Kryptonite
06-30-2009, 02:02 PM
Sim mode isn't an easy thing to show in a video. It's mostly about the controls, not what's on the screen. Since it's cockpit only, I'd like to see it done, but I doubt they'd do an entire video of it--it wouldn't show the eye candy they want people to see of the environment nearly as much. Maybe a vid showing it with a controller graphic in the corner explaining what the presenter is doing. Something instructional.

However, what I'd *really* like to see would be some MP footage of the Ground Strike and Capture the Airfield game modes. I'd like to see that in action with bombers, escorts, blowing up features, taking the target etc. Show me what we'll be doing online! That's what I'm excited about. :grin:

Would be nice to get confirmation of a replay feature at the same time--show us the video in the form of the replay. Still don't know if we'll have that, just that we do not have a video editor.

GabeFan
06-30-2009, 02:36 PM
Can we assume that Simulation mode still exists?

This is my first post on this forum, but I've been eagerly following this game and reading this forum since the beginning. I have a question about the number of difficulty modes in the game.

I know that Anton has previously stated that there would be three difficulty modes: Arcade, Realistic, and Simulation. Now, after 1C's preview of the game, both 1up and Gamespot have mentioned in their previews that there are only two difficulty modes: Arcade and Realistic.

So, I'm wondering, what happened to Simulation mode?

Yes...Interesting point. Anton did say before that there were THREE modes of play. Hopefully SIM mode is still included!!!!!

Stanrosquain
06-30-2009, 03:04 PM
It's been several months since the game is over.
Mode simulation is the main pillar of the game, remove this pillar and the game will collapse.

If they remove the simulation mode, this game will no longer be an "IL-2 Sturmovik".
The game will be a Blazing Angel improved.
All the people I saw in the forum want this game just for the simulation mode (about fifty people just in http://www.jeuxvideo.com if I take into account the forums and comments of videos)

It's the first flight simulator in console. Frankly I don't think they have removed the simulation mode (the game is finished for a long time and there aren't reason to remove it)
Delete simulation mode would be stupid.
I don't understand why you talk about deleting of the simulation mode.

Hineni
06-30-2009, 03:25 PM
I did not post my question to be provocative. I have read everything about this game since it was first mentioned on the Il-2 forum. I want this game to succeed as much as anybody else on this forum.

I simply asked why two leading game websites, after attending a preview by the game's publisher, are now reporting that there are only two difficulty modes in the game: Arcade and Realistic.

I agree that the deletion of Simulation mode would be a great disappointment and a potentially fatal blow to the game. Simulation mode is the only mode I am interested in.

Like everybody else posting on this thread. I would like to see some more information about Simulation mode. If not in a game trailer, then on the website or on this forum.

Anton Yudintsev
06-30-2009, 03:56 PM
There will be Simulation mode.
Some information about it will on a website (at least I hope so) soon.

irrelevant
06-30-2009, 04:00 PM
There will be Simulation mode.
Some information about it will on a website (at least I hope so) soon.


Thank you, sir! :cool:

Stanrosquain
06-30-2009, 04:06 PM
The best is to wait for the demo. Anton said the demo would include simulation mode (that is either single player or multiplayer) :)

Riceball
07-01-2009, 12:38 AM
I'll just add that anybody who thinks Birds of Prey will be anything like Blazing Angels is just, plain, dumb. Or, does not know about the IL-2 series. Both Blazing Angels are garbage.

BoP will be in a league all it's own. That is, untill the sequel. :cool:

GabeFan
07-01-2009, 01:31 AM
Hopefully you won't have to "unlock" SIM mode by finishing the game in arcade or realistic mode. I'm hoping that it will be available in the game straight away from the beginning...

Anton Yudintsev
07-01-2009, 02:29 AM
Hopefully you won't have to "unlock" SIM mode by finishing the game in arcade or realistic mode. I'm hoping that it will be available in the game straight away from the beginning...

You have to unlock Arcarde/Realistic/Sim mode by finishing special tutorial missions (rather short). Arcade tutorial is required, others are optional.
That is done, to prevent casual player from unintendently selecting of realistic/simulation mode.

After that, you will be able to play Campaign in mode of your choise.

trk29
07-01-2009, 02:36 AM
Anton can you tell us a number of people for mulitplayer yet?

Anton Yudintsev
07-01-2009, 02:47 AM
Anton can you tell us a number of people for mulitplayer yet?

No, not in details.
MP info is planned to be an update in two weeks or so - PR schedule, that sort of things.
But it will be up to 16 players.

GabeFan
07-01-2009, 03:11 AM
You have to unlock Arcarde/Realistic/Sim mode by finishing special tutorial missions (rather short). Arcade tutorial is required, others are optional.
That is done, to prevent casual player from unintendently selecting of realistic/simulation mode.

After that, you will be able to play Campaign in mode of your choise.

Sounds good. Thanks for the info Anton! I can't wait to play this game! :)

Marchochias
07-01-2009, 04:21 AM
I would like to see some more information about Simulation mode. If not in a game trailer, then on the website or on this forum.

I'd also like to have a billion dollars and my own Lamborghini Diablo, but I'm not going to complain on the internet until somebody gives me these things, am I?

Do you really think complaining is going to make you get what you want faster?

The developers will say "Man, did you hear? Somebody from the INTERNET wants more information and videos on our game! We'd better hurry! We wouldn't want someone on the internet to complain!"

Hineni
07-01-2009, 05:32 AM
One of the problems I'm encountering when I discuss this game with other people, is that, as soon as they find out it is for a console, they immediately think it will be an arcade-style game. When I tell them that it will also have a simulation mode, they ask me what the simulation mode will be like. At this point the conversation ends because I really don't know much about the simulation mode.

As other posters in this thread have pointed out, the simulation mode is important to many people, yet very little is known about it. That is one of the reasons for my request for more information. So I could better explain this game to other people who are interested in it.

If Anton viewed my request as a complaint, then he has my apology.

haitch40
07-01-2009, 11:33 AM
I'll just add that anybody who thinks Birds of Prey will be anything like Blazing Angels is just, plain, dumb. Or, does not know about the IL-2 series. Both Blazing Angels are garbage.

BoP will be in a league all it's own. That is, untill the sequel. :cool:

true ba is a bit crap especially ba2 but its the only console ww2 flyer at the moment so i still play it

haitch40
07-01-2009, 11:41 AM
You have to unlock Arcarde/Realistic/Sim mode by finishing special tutorial missions (rather short). Arcade tutorial is required, others are optional.
That is done, to prevent casual player from unintendently selecting of realistic/simulation mode.

After that, you will be able to play Campaign in mode of your choise.

quick question
whats the difference between sim mode and realistic mode?

mondo
07-01-2009, 12:14 PM
One of the problems I'm encountering when I discuss this game with other people, is that, as soon as they find out it is for a console, they immediately think it will be an arcade-style game. When I tell them that it will also have a simulation mode, they ask me what the simulation mode will be like. At this point the conversation ends because I really don't know much about the simulation mode.

As other posters in this thread have pointed out, the simulation mode is important to many people, yet very little is known about it. That is one of the reasons for my request for more information. So I could better explain this game to other people who are interested in it.

If Anton viewed my request as a complaint, then he has my apology.

I would suspect it will be like IL2 with all the options turn off. Complex engine management, manual trim, manual flaps, overheating, limited ammunition and fuel, stalls and spins are full real, airframe G limits, full damage model, full flight model, locked in cockpit with no outside view, no map indicators, manual super/turbochargers and mixture settings...manual everything.

I guess stalls and spins would be the most noticable difference.

Anton Yudintsev
07-01-2009, 12:34 PM
The developers will say "Man, did you hear? Somebody from the INTERNET wants more information and videos on our game! We'd better hurry! We wouldn't want someone on the internet to complain!"

That's funny, but you are only half right.
Nobody will do anything because of somebody from Internet complaining.

But if most of community wants to here about MP (or Sim experience) in a first place, we can change priorities of community updates we are going to release.
In that case, both are planned (MP details and Arcade/Realistic/Simulation differencers). If everyone is interested in MP, and only few in Simulation details - MP will go first.

And, of course, what exactly will be in those updates depends on questions I read here.
So your feedback is very welcome (if it is structured and readable :) )

Anton Yudintsev
07-01-2009, 12:36 PM
quick question
whats the difference between sim mode and realistic mode?

That's quick question, but long answer :)
The information will be rather soon as a community update.
As a most visually noticable difference - in Simulation there is only cockpit/virtual cockpit view (no 3rd person view) and no any HUDs.

But, of course, there are more of them.

haitch40
07-01-2009, 02:25 PM
That's quick question, but long answer :)
The information will be rather soon as a community update.
As a most visually noticable difference - in Simulation there is only cockpit/virtual cockpit view (no 3rd person view) and no any HUDs.

But, of course, there are more of them.

also will u be able to turn options on and off for if u dont want the setup the three modes have?
by the way ur a great team of people i now know why i was born :)