locked treads on IL-2 Sturmovik Forum

[Red Dragon-DK]

When 2 teams merge it only natural to comepair and debate good and bad from eatch products. Trying to shut that down only expose the new project is not so great and thought through at all. You allway try to aim for getting the best from eatch team and products to make a even stronger and better product. Why not in this project? Why not?

So an other tread is have just been locked. Now they just locked the CEM tread on the other forum. That will only upset people even more and doubting the upcomming product. Do you have to like, what they will not make for there new game? I wish that I could have the faith and hope of the new project, but this censorship and intollerance to dubious shake, makes me lack of confidence in project and the management behind this.
Personaly I would like to put up theat quistion, on the other forum, but Im pretty shure I would get a ban right away. Thats why Im posting it here.

What quistion are allowed to be discussed? When I look down on the main Genneral page I see alot of locked treads. Not a good sign in my Optics.

[David Hayward]

The are trying to stop the constant trolling that ruined this place. It looks like they might be doing that here, also. Too late, unfortunately.

[startrekmike]

The threads are getting locked because some players can't seem to stop trying to either stoke the fires of discontent (just to do it) or just want to troll because they have been getting away with it during the weekends.

This had nothing to do with the quality of the product, it is simply too early to make any guesses as to how it will be, they are locking threads because they don't want the forum to become a infamous cesspool of needless bickering and hate like this one seems to be (at least to me, a newcomer).

I don't care what sim you like, there is simply no reason to act like some of the guys who are getting threads locked over there.

Frankly, if I were the mods, I would be banning a ton of people because all they want to do is derail any discussion with complaints that have no actual basis in reality.

[Volksieg]

Pretty much what the above said.

The CEM thread was going just fine until it degenerated into yet another tit for tat argument.

Simple fact is..... The BOS forum is for discussing what features people would like to see, updates, general chat etc.. not for the whole CloD vs ROF idiocy. Sadly it all kicked off again and, therefore, the thread was locked. Seems totally fair to me.

I love CloD and I'm as sad about its demise as anyone is but I really don't think it is fair to pollute the BOS forum with that kind of childish crap.

BOS is not CloD and it is not ROF! It is BOS.

So far I haven't seen any problems on there with regards to referring to features in CloD, mentioning how one would like to see those features implemented in BOS... What I have seen, though, is moderators clamping down on stupid antics and "My sim is better than your sim!" bs.

There is no conspiracy. Us CloD pilots aren't being picked on and, as far as I can tell, nothing is happening other than a bunch of people trying to create a WW2 flight sim with a future for us. Yep. US.

Surely a little more decorum wouldn't be too much to ask for?

[CWMV]

Don't want a thread locked? Don't play stupid games.
Talking about how great the features if you condemned game are is pretty retarded, and has nothing to do with BoS.

[Wolf_Rider]

~
Surely a little more decorum wouldn't be too much to ask for?



Well, the same could have applied here... it seemed to be all well and good to pollute this forum!

[Volksieg]

That's a good point, Wolf_rider.

Surely a little more decorum wouldn't be too much to ask for once?

There you go. Fixed it. lol

[JG52Uther]

Their forum their rules. Looks like they want to distance themselves from both CoD AND RoF, so the RoF fans might not want to get too cozy, as that sim could very well be the next one for the chop.
Can't see how they can keep both going, and WW2 is where the money tree is.

[Wolf_Rider]

That's a good point, Wolf_rider.

Surely a little more decorum wouldn't be too much to ask for once?

There you go. Fixed it. lol





perhaps, you could lead by example and conduct yourself in the same decorum you ask of others?


now its fixed ;)

[kendo65]

Pretty much what the above said.

The CEM thread was going just fine until it degenerated into yet another tit for tat argument.

Simple fact is..... The BOS forum is for discussing what features people would like to see, updates, general chat etc.. not for the whole CloD vs ROF idiocy. Sadly it all kicked off again and, therefore, the thread was locked. Seems totally fair to me.

I love CloD and I'm as sad about its demise as anyone is but I really don't think it is fair to pollute the BOS forum with that kind of childish crap.

BOS is not CloD and it is not ROF! It is BOS.

So far I haven't seen any problems on there with regards to referring to features in CloD, mentioning how one would like to see those features implemented in BOS... What I have seen, though, is moderators clamping down on stupid antics and "My sim is better than your sim!" bs.

There is no conspiracy. Us CloD pilots aren't being picked on and, as far as I can tell, nothing is happening other than a bunch of people trying to create a WW2 flight sim with a future for us. Yep. US.

Surely a little more decorum wouldn't be too much to ask for?

A healthy dose of reality. Well said.

[Fjordmonkey]

I just wish these boards were as ruthlessly moderated. Then again, I'd probably be banned myself, since I can't sit here in my glass-house and say that I haven't fired off more than one broadside :P

[JG52Uther]

Well, moderators have to go by a set of guidelines from the higher ups. Nobody told me to suddenly become a ******* I decided that all by myself, and will continue until others decide I can't :cool:
Other than that, I am quite happy with the thought that the worst trolls, griefers and all round ***** are now banned from here, simhq, in fact probably every flight sim forum on the planet, and are too scared to open their mouths on the new forum, and will just have to play along like good little soldiers.Funny how some of the worst trouble making idiots here are now fine upstanding members of the community at the new place.
They will have to go to facebook or mumsnet for an argument now. :rolleyes:

[Feathered_IV]

If it stops the new forum becoming like this one, the ends justify the means.

[Fjordmonkey]

If it stops the new forum becoming like this one, the ends justify the means.

Amen.

Having been both a moderator on boards and an Op on good old IRC, I can appreciate the mods job a little better, and in some cases truly admire their ability to keep their cool. Because I sure as hell wouldn't :P

[Volksieg]

They will have to go to facebook or mumsnet for an argument now. :rolleyes:

They better not! Mumsnet is my happy hunting ground. lol

[nearmiss]

The COD is a done deal. No more patches or embellishments will be coming from 1C.

It is rumored 777 will use their own engine and build a WW2 air combat simulator game. I think we should look at the merge between COD and 777 as 777 buying the longstanding and prosperous IL2 Sturmovik brand and nothing more.

Then when you go to that forums you understand the vents and complaints are not their problem. THey bought "the IL2 Sturmovik brand" and the COD is just an ancillary thing that came with the purchase of the brand.

If 777 were buying COD for the work that has been done the patches would continue and the COD would be improved.

We are looking at 2014 for a release. I would say... a new sim with ties to an old brand.

So... don't go there looking for resolution of your complaints with COD they aren't improving or working with the COD code is my understanding. They may or may not use some graphic elements of COD.

[KG26_Alpha]

I just wish these boards were as ruthlessly moderated. Then again, I'd probably be banned myself, since I can't sit here in my glass-house and say that I haven't fired off more than one broadside :P

Well personal opinions and feelings don't/shouldn't come into moderating here, if they did there would be a decimation of members believe me.

There's a set of rules on the front door, most members never read them until they are pointed towards them after doing something wrong.

Even with moderating the rules, a lot gets let go for the sake of a decent discussion/argument, so long as members are not abusing each other and the trolls stay out of the thread.

Unfortunately members can take it personally and think they are being singled out when posts are deleted or infractions given, even when its clear and plain that they broke a forum rule they cannot accept the fact they are in the wrong.

I know none of the moderators here like to ban members and we have bent over backwards allowing banned members to come in again, if they request it, so long as they behave :)

But there's a slightly strange dark side to some members.............

If I showed you the pager messages from some members from killing my family, burning my house down, shoving a glass in my face, to personal attacks and senseless name calling personal insults derogatory insults, I have received over the years you wouldn't want to moderate here.

:)

[SlipBall]

Well personal opinions and feelings don't/shouldn't come into moderating here, if they did there would be a decimation of members believe me.

There's a set of rules on the front door, most members never read them until they are pointed towards them after doing something wrong.

Even with moderating the rules, a lot gets let go for the sake of a decent discussion/argument, so long as members are not abusing each other and the trolls stay out of the thread.

Unfortunately members can take it personally and think they are being singled out when posts are deleted or infractions given, even when its clear and plain that they broke a forum rule they cannot accept the fact they are in the wrong.

I know none of the moderators here like to ban members and we have bent over backwards allowing banned members to come in again, if they request it, so long as they behave :)

But there's a slightly strange dark side to some members.............

If I showed you the pager messages from some members from killing my family, burning my house down, shoving a glass in my face, to personal attacks and senseless name calling personal insults derogatory insults, I have received over the years you wouldn't want to moderate here.

:)

You noticed :-P

[T_O_A_D]

Here Here,

Being a Moderator over at UBI was and is (not so often anymore) the very same way, I've saved a few of those nasty letters myself over the years.
I would never wish the Moderating Job on anyone. Its the most thankless none fulfilling thing one can do for the community. I signed up originally out of respect for Oleg and his creation, hoping to just keep general order for all of us involved. At times it was impossible, alot like herding Cats. My hats off to anyone willing to try, and concerned for the ones that have burned out or snapped in the past, and yet willing to try again in the new avenues of this genre.

Well personal opinions and feelings don't/shouldn't come into moderating here, if they did there would be a decimation of members believe me.

There's a set of rules on the front door, most members never read them until they are pointed towards them after doing something wrong.

Even with moderating the rules, a lot gets let go for the sake of a decent discussion/argument, so long as members are not abusing each other and the trolls stay out of the thread.

Unfortunately members can take it personally and think they are being singled out when posts are deleted or infractions given, even when its clear and plain that they broke a forum rule they cannot accept the fact they are in the wrong.

I know none of the moderators here like to ban members and we have bent over backwards allowing banned members to come in again, if they request it, so long as they behave :)

But there's a slightly strange dark side to some members.............

If I showed you the pager messages from some members from killing my family, burning my house down, shoving a glass in my face, to personal attacks and senseless name calling personal insults derogatory insults, I have received over the years you wouldn't want to moderate here.

:)

[fruitbat]

If I showed you the pager messages from some members from killing my family, burning my house down, shoving a glass in my face, to personal attacks and senseless name calling personal insults derogatory insults, I have received over the years you wouldn't want to moderate here.

:)

You have to question whether we should give people in asylums access to the internet...

[JG52Uther]

You have to question whether we should give people in asylums access to the internet...
People only see the fun side of forums, and not the dark underbelly where the crazies live ;)
Lets see...Burn my house down? yep. Know where I live and going to kill my family? yep. Report me as a peadophile? yep. Ruin my career? yep. Kick someones pregnant wife in the belly? yep.That was a good one, from someone who had just received a 10 point infraction...
Thats some over the years.
:)

[SlipBall]

Well it is very peaceful here, Bearcat must have missed a lot and they are still there :-P

[JG52Uther]

Well hopefully he's made it so he doesn't have much to do. :grin:
TBH, theres not really much to argue about, until theres some screenies and WIP shots.

[Ailantd]

Wait and see.

By now I have really clear what I´m going to do:
When BoS reach gold state, if it is at the CoDs new quality "standard" they will have my money and good reviews. On the other side, if BoS is not at that quality ( like it seems its going to be for what devs are telling us in their forum ), then they will have not my money but bad reviews from me.

And so on until they can make an iteration that fits CoD standard, then they will have my money again.

I know, I know... You can tell me: "But this world needs support, because if you don´t support it at first stage they will not reach that quality standard you want". Well, I already give my support for CoD, so I´m not going to support more 1C products until they can offer what I really want this time.

Period.

[addman]

People only see the fun side of forums, and not the dark underbelly where the crazies live ;)
Lets see...Burn my house down? yep. Know where I live and going to kill my family? yep. Report me as a peadophile? yep. Ruin my career? yep. Kick someones pregnant wife in the belly? yep.That was a good one, from someone who had just received a 10 point infraction...
Thats some over the years.
:)

Wooow! :-o That's some dark twisted stuff right there. How can any sane person say something like that over such a small thing as forum ban? Imagine if you did something really harsh to them. Anyway, creds to you mods for doing what you're doing, I haven't been on my best behaviour always but I'm willing to admit if I did or said something out of order at least.

[RickRuski]

It has been stated on both forums that C.o.D. is finished, so I think we should just let it go as far as any further fixes or development is concerned.
As far as c.e.m goes it is already stated at the new forum if you read what is going to happen with the development of B.o.S. there will be no clickable cockpits, the development will follow more in the line of the old Il2 series. For those that yet haven't, read this: -

http://forum.il2sturmovik.net/index.php?showtopic=168

It is unfortunate that a lot of us refuse to let C.o.D. die at its current level, maybe 1c will finally let the community develop it further but at the moment I can't see that happening.

Cliffs of Dover will live on for a lot of us because we have managed to tune our systems and the sim to get the best performance we can. The only thing that disappoints me is the lack of SLi/Crossfire support that was originally promised and has never officially been done regardless of what BS and Luthier have said, never mind, with the coding that Luthier posted I have at least got it working.

All said,

Merry Christmas to all and a better New Year

[furbs]

People only see the fun side of forums, and not the dark underbelly where the crazies live ;)
Lets see...Burn my house down? yep. Know where I live and going to kill my family? yep. Report me as a peadophile? yep. Ruin my career? yep. Kick someones pregnant wife in the belly? yep.That was a good one, from someone who had just received a 10 point infraction...
Thats some over the years.
:)

Wow Uther, im just a pussy cat compared to that lot, i just called you a bellend! :)

[JG52Uther]

And I am :grin:
Goes to show though, if we get that sort of thing, I wonder what Luthier had to put up with...

[Fjordmonkey]

And I am :grin:
Goes to show though, if we get that sort of thing, I wonder what Luthier had to put up with...

Probably far, far worse :P

I recognize many of the things you've been called and have tossed after you, Uther :P I've gotten quite a few death-threats etc. up through the years, and in some cases they've been utterly hilarious. Best one was one dude that said that he was going to have a friend hack my computer and then he'd come to my house to kill me. The funny part of that was that his friend worked at Best Buy, and that he'd have to travel from the Midwest US to Norway in order to do so :P

I've also seen quite a bit of the same behavior as you describe towards some of the moderators on flightsim.no, which is a Norwegian flightsim-community for MSFS2004/FSX. The mod started to actually moderate, since there was quite a lot of bitching, personal attacks etc going on. He ended up stepping down after he had people call him to yell at him because he DARED try to keep the peace there. That you post there with your full name doesn't make the case any better, of course.

Sadly, muppets will be muppets. Most of them aren't so tough when/if you meet them in person, though.

[bongodriver]

Wow Uther, im just a pussy cat compared to that lot, i just called you a bellend! :)

HeHe...and I was peeved when you told me to make love to my own face, sucks to be a moderator for sure.

[WTE_Galway]

It's not just the flight sim community that are effected detrimentally by childish forum behavior. Check this link for example:

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/

Alas, the miscreant conduct of the modern web 'community' has played a large role in this tragic development. The corrosive nature of current behaviour 'on-line' has fatally eroded any enthusiasm to carry on. To be sure, the majority of our faithful readers over the years have been lovely, and have contributed much, themselves, to the study of this wonderful subject-- you will be sorely missed. But, even for all that, it seems impossible to redress the catastrophically negative trajectory of modern society in this present era where fact is decided by popularity, and investigation is supplanted by tedious, baseless opinion. Simply revolting.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Very true.

Just look at all the posts from people showing up now that never posted on this forum while the sim was still being worked on. That should say enough about people's agendas. One individual posted more in this week than the entire time clod was released. Facts are neat, sadly most people could care less about them.

[Catseye]

Sad but strong evidence of the inability of a great number of people to put a statement or question into place without thoughtlessly choosing poor phrasing or not couching the question in terms that will not inflame another.

Others, not having the ability to read that statement or question correctly!

And in particular, the impersonality of communicating online wherein things are said in text that one would not say while facing the individual in person.

Lastly for me, and unfortunately I think, the forums are a watering hole for all species and regrettably, the lower echelon drag the rest down to the most common level of dialogue.

[Hood]

When people understand the limits it is a lot easier. At the outset the moderation of these boards was invisible. I have no idea whose fault that was but it was asking for trouble if it was a conscious decision in the face of such a poorly handled product/release.

You cannot argue hindsight because from almost the word go it was obvious how this would degenerate. I still feel the mods here have some way to go - look at the "No sense to anymore nonsense" thread for an example how to fan the flames. :)

Strong moderation was needed to get past the hand you were dealt with, but moderation went AWOL. Sure you can point at individuals and there's no doubt there are a toxic few, but they could have been culled.

I know moderating is a thankless task but that's my thought anyway. I'm hoping Bearcat carries on as he's started over at the BOS forum.

Hood

[Feathered_IV]

Personal attacks should be allowed, but only if couched in the style of Thomas Mallory or Geoffrey Chaucer. Or possibly pirates...

[Fjordmonkey]

One question: Am I the only one that takes great delight in reading locked thread, especially the reasoning for actually locking them? :P

[raaaid]

yeah i find a sick pleasure watching arguments heat

im not the only one, locked threads atract attention as you can se by the views

guess thats why the romans made the circus :(

[JG52Uther]

Its usually like watching a crash, in slow motion.You don't want to look, but its difficult to look away...
I'm actually hoping it gets a lot quieter here (I think it already is) and people just come here to chat, and talk about CoD, maybe even in a good way!
People are still going to play it, and new people might still need a bit of help sometimes.

[Fjordmonkey]

Its usually like watching a crash, in slow motion.You don't want to look, but its difficult to look away...

It's like watching Paradise Hotel or some of the other more idiotic realityshows. You don't want to watch, but you're suckered into it just by sheer curiosity about how moronically idiotic a human actually can be :P


I'm actually hoping it gets a lot quieter here (I think it already is) and people just come here to chat, and talk about CoD, maybe even in a good way!
;)

One can hope, although I think that the conflict-level will still be significant in some threads :P Can't change human nature, y'know :grin:

[Feathered_IV]

Its usually like watching a crash, in slow motion.You don't want to look, but its difficult to look away...

That is how I felt watching sow/clod development from 2009 to 2012. It was just so very painful to see it happening and being powerless to prevent it. At this point I haven't a damned clue how the next one will pan out, and it's a wonderful feeling.

[bongodriver]

That is how I felt watching sow/clod development from 2009 to 2012. It was just so very painful to see it happening and being powerless to prevent it. At this point I haven't a damned clue how the next one will pan out, and it's a wonderful feeling.

I think this sums up the irrational bitterness quite well.

[carguy_]

Other than that, I am quite happy with the thought that the worst trolls, griefers and all round ***** are now banned from here, simhq, in fact probably every flight sim forum on the planet, and are too scared to open their mouths on the new forum, and will just have to play along like good little soldiers.Funny how some of the worst trouble making idiots here are now fine upstanding members of the community at the new place.
They will have to go to facebook or mumsnet for an argument now. :rolleyes:
Yea, I think you and I know pretty well that they can`t hold it for long. The haters who been kicked out of here with perminit bans are trying to give their nicknames a new face. Too bad few of them already posted enough through the first weekend of the new forum to get banned for 30days (according the the forum rules).

[carguy_]

I'm actually hoping it gets a lot quieter here (I think it already is) and people just come here to chat, and talk about CoD, maybe even in a good way!
People are still going to play it, and new people might still need a bit of help sometimes.
Now that you mention it, since CloD topics/posts are not allowed over at the new forum, is it too muc to ask if the mods here did the same to RoF topics/posts?

There has been a lot of it in here forum, and a meaningful part of the whole negativity towards CloD.

[fruitbat]

I just got banned for a day. I called Crummp 'Chump'. Apparently that's not allowed.

I got a warning and 3 days loss of posting privileges for telling him 'his history sucked' (which it blatantly does).

[Al Schlageter]

I don't see the Hungarian revisionist lasting long on the 1C777 board. The Mods won't put up with his nonsense there like they did at the Zoo and here.

[NZtyphoon]

I don't see the Hungarian revisionist lasting long on the 1C777 board. The Mods won't put up with his nonsense there like they did at the Zoo and here.

Hungarian revisionist? Oh yes, he's over there, as well as the resident internet Embry-Riddle aviation expert and "flight instructor" :rolleyes:...

[Al Schlageter]

I see he registered yesterday. Well, at least he can't accuse of stalking him, like he did here, as you registered before him.:):):)

[Bearcat]

FWIW posts over on IL2 were locked for all the reasons posted above but also because at the time there was no place to discuss those subjects. Now there is.. So some of those threads have been cleaned up and reopened. I could never understand why grown normally sane and congenial men seem to devolve into .. total jerks when it comes to things like this.. It can be worse than trying to talk politics sometimes.. and that's on either side of just about any fence when it comes to simming it seems.. anyway.. just a 411..

People only see the fun side of forums, and not the dark underbelly where the crazies live ;)
Lets see...Burn my house down? yep. Know where I live and going to kill my family? yep. Report me as a peadophile? yep. Ruin my career? yep. Kick someones pregnant wife in the belly? yep.That was a good one, from someone who had just received a 10 point infraction...
Thats some over the years.
:)


You actually got threats like that?!! That is sick.. That someone would take something on the internet that seriously..

[Wolf_Rider]

People only see the fun side of forums, and not the dark underbelly where the crazies live ;)
Lets see...Burn my house down? yep. Know where I live and going to kill my family? yep. Report me as a peadophile? yep. Ruin my career? yep. Kick someones pregnant wife in the belly? yep.That was a good one, from someone who had just received a 10 point infraction...
Thats some over the years.
:)

That's not quite as frightening as what goes on with politics forums... one of which actually had a police member, (privately) use resources to track down members who had views different to his... I kid you not, this really happened.
Needless to say, he was of the hardcore left leaning persuasion and ended up in gaol for manslaughter of his wife.
Emails to members' unlisted email promising harm to family members, stopped when his sentence began.


As always, be very very careful about what information (of an identifying nature), if any, is put forward on any forum.

[CWMV]

...Needless to say, he was of the hardcore left leaning persuasion and ended up in gaol for manslaughter of his wife.
...


As always, be very very careful about what information (of an identifying nature), if any, is put forward on any forum.

Counter-revolutionary propaganda! The proletariat of the world unite only in peace to bring the Glorious workers revolution! Peace and equality for all in the workers paradise!
OFF TO THE GULAG WITH YOU!

+1 for second part there.

[Robert]

Their forum their rules. Looks like they want to distance themselves from both CoD AND RoF, so the RoF fans might not want to get too cozy, as that sim could very well be the next one for the chop.
Can't see how they can keep both going, and WW2 is where the money tree is.

Hmmmmmmm. Your comment makes me wonder how much of a salvation the merge of 1C and 777 was to 777 Studios. I don't think they were in any imminant danger, but does 777 Studios have the capital to create another sim once RoF starts to wane or not make enough money to sustain the development crew? Maybe this was the best for EVERYONE involved.


We are a niche market, that doesn't realize how small we are. I visit several 'regular' gaming forums and have been a member for no less than 6 years.... most longer. When i mention Flight simming or CFS I hear crickets chirping. Couple that with the average age of flight sim enthusiasts and I wonder how long this hobby will be marketable.

[Bearcat]

Watch it the bub! Just who do you think you are talking that common sense nonsense! Go back to your own logical sensible forum! why are you here...... LoL..


(Sorry man I couldn't help myself... :))

[MACADEMIC]

FWIW posts over on IL2 were locked for all the reasons posted above but also because at the time there was no place to discuss those subjects. Now there is.. So some of those threads have been cleaned up and reopened. I could never understand why grown normally sane and congenial men seem to devolve into .. total jerks when it comes to things like this.. It can be worse than trying to talk politics sometimes.. and that's on either side of just about any fence when it comes to simming it seems.. anyway.. just a 411..




You actually got threats like that?!! That is sick.. That someone would take something on the internet that seriously..

IMHO much better to prune topics that are overall genuine discussions than locking away the whole thread. I never liked group punishment exercises for individual's transgressions, not at school, not at the military, and not at a forum I visit in my spare time for information and entertainment.

;)

MAC

[Robert]

Watch it the bub! Just who do you think you are talking that common sense nonsense! Go back to your own logical sensible forum! why are you here...... LoL..


(Sorry man I couldn't help myself... :))

You spelled my name wrong. It's Bob, not Bub. ;) :D

[WTE_Galway]

We are a niche market, that doesn't realize how small we are. I visit several 'regular' gaming forums and have been a member for no less than 6 years.... most longer. When i mention Flight simming or CFS I hear crickets chirping. Couple that with the average age of flight sim enthusiasts and I wonder how long this hobby will be marketable.


All you need is a historically accurate flightsim that is compatible with the Wii U and its new tablet controller :D

http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/i/tim/2012/10/22/original_610x322.jpg

[baronWastelan]

If you were being dominated by your fat wife, you would want to be a moderator on a forum too, to give you some feeling of power which you will never have in real life.

[Feathered_IV]

That is uncalled for, don't you think?

[Bearcat]

If you were being dominated by your fat wife, you would want to be a moderator on a forum too, to give you some feeling of power which you will never have in real life.

I am assuming that you are referring to me.. or maybe FSM .. since we are the only two moderators on the IL2 boards..... If you are referring to me..

You can say what you want about me.. but for you to start including my family in your little rant is a new low.. I don't know you and you don't know me, and you certainly don't know my wife... You know nothing about my family life and you sure as hell don't know what goes on in my home..

I have the love and respect of the people who are really important in my life... like my lovely wife, my children, grandchildren, parents.. and inlaws ... my co workers and my employers.. my church family and my pastors ... and some of the many friends I have made and met in person over the past 12 years of enjoying this hobby of mine that I have come to appreciate so much.. so what people like YOU think of me on internet forums is really of no significant importance. I do what I do in this community because it is something that I am a part of and that I am somewhat passionate about.. From my perspective when you get from something you are obligated to man up and kick in to give back whenever and where ever you can.. through monetary contributions or service.. I do both depending on where it is ... That was how I was raised. This is what MEN do. They don't hide behind the security of the internet taking pot shots at the families of people they disagree with, and really know nothing about over matters that in the larger scheme of things are only minor diversions at best.

You talk about "some feeling of power that one will never have in real life" .. Well based on your post and the way you carry yourself you have no idea what real power even is ... that's why you made that statement in the first place... YOU are the one seeking to validate yourself by making childish statements in cyberspace in an attempt to transfer your own inadequacies on to others.. It has failed.. based on what I have revealed about myself to you above.. and more.. I have enough power in my life to be grateful for each morning ... I wonder if you can say the same thing.. ?

[Fjordmonkey]

If you were being dominated by your fat wife, you would want to be a moderator on a forum too, to give you some feeling of power which you will never have in real life.

That's low, even for dwellers on this forum. Maybe I'm expecting too much from this community, but I really DID expect people here to be older than 14. Apparantly I was wrong.:rolleyes:

[CWMV]

If you were being dominated by your fat wife, you would want to be a moderator on a forum too, to give you some feeling of power which you will never have in real life.

WTF is wrong with you? Dear god.

[Skoshi Tiger]

That was the opposite of "Cool"!

[Wolf_Rider]

its no worse than this one...



The fact that they gave away so much stuff free.. which only served to foster a spoiled, ungrateful petulant, vociferously vocal community and drain the resources, financial and personel of the company for bigger and better things didn't help either.

[Fjordmonkey]

its no worse than this one...

Actually, Wolf, Bearcat's estimate on the issue, and his categorization of this community as a whole is actually quite spot on. So yes, Wastelan's comment was about four lightyears worse than what Bearcat said.

Let's face it: This community has ALWAYS been in dire need of a severe reality-check. Case in point: The SU-26-debacle. Why in any of the nine hells did dev-resources in a WWII-sim spent on developing an aircraft that wasn't fielded in the theater the conflict actually depicts?

Simple answer:because there were whiny brats in the community that whined, wailed, ranted, frothed-at-the-mouth and flipped their lid about it not being present!

Regardless, it's all a moot point at this stage. 1C yanked the plug on CLoD, which has cost them far too much money for far too little return. Of course, some members here refuse to accept that money talks and bullshit walks, and thus the whining, bitching and general idiocy persists.

[Wolf_Rider]

What are still doing here then, if it that sad for you??

SU-26? proof of concept device?

[Osprey]

Don't want a thread locked? Don't play stupid games.
Talking about how great the features if you condemned game are is pretty retarded, and has nothing to do with BoS.

You are one of those who did their level best to destroy COD with your mouth on here - Look at your Avatar FFS!!! "Launcher has stopped working" created with your own hand. You don't even play COD!!! Yet in the new forums you are up Jason's backside about BOS. You and a minority like you have done a great dis-service to the oh so very niche flight sim community, you should hang your head in shame, what you and your pals have done makes me sick.

[Wolf_Rider]

+1

[Fjordmonkey]

What are still doing here then, if it that sad for you??

Because you muppets are more fun to watch self-destruct than an army of clowns caught in a meatgrinder.

SU-26? proof of concept device?

Proof of WHAT concept? How to spend dev-resources/time and money on useless content in a project that's already overrun with bugs, issues, severe flaws and unfinished code? If anything, the whole development/completion of the SU-26 should have been thrown out of the window long before it was even started, let alone completed.

[Osprey]

Funny how some of the worst trouble making idiots here are now fine upstanding members of the community at the new place.

That is because their only goal was to destroy COD by badmouthing on these boards despite not even owning a copy of the sim. They are ROF fanboys through and through, God only knows what they think they would achieve by doing what they've done.

[Fjordmonkey]

That is because their only goal was to destroy COD by badmouthing on these boards despite not even owning a copy of the sim. They are ROF fanboys through and through, God only knows what they think they would achieve by doing what they've done.

Or maybe it's because the new forums are rather ruthlessly moderated in order to keep people like that in check, perhaps?

I'd go with that. This forum has always needed a severe upgrade in moderator ruthlessness in order to quell the trolls, but that upgrade never came. Which results in the community we have here now and had here for the last few years.

[Osprey]

You can go with that but you are wrong. These guys nailed their colours to the mast with fanfare before a line of code is written, before moderators were even appointed - this has been a victory for them and they've been celebrating the confirmation of removal of a ton of advanced features in excahge for 777 and a ROF engine (which looks terribly limited)

[Fjordmonkey]

You can go with that but you are wrong. These guys nailed their colours to the mast with fanfare before a line of code is written, before moderators were even appointed - this has been a victory for them and they've been celebrating the confirmation of removal of a ton of advanced features in excahge for 777 and a ROF engine (which looks terribly limited)

I'll go with what I believe is right, and you keep your stance. We'll never see eye to eye on it anyway.

[Davy TASB]

That is because their only goal was to destroy COD by badmouthing on these boards despite not even owning a copy of the sim. They are ROF fanboys through and through, God only knows what they think they would achieve by doing what they've done.


So ROF fanboys have killed CloD now.

Dear me.... this forum gets funnier by the day :grin: :grin: :grin:

[Wolf_Rider]

Proof of WHAT concept?


all programs have a Proof of Concept

[Fjordmonkey]

So ROF fanboys have killed CloD now.


Nah, it's been a well-known fact that the Roffers have killed off CLoD. Just like it's a well-known fact that the Creationists are right and Evolution is just a fantasy-story that Darwin created on his spare time.

Dear me.... this forum gets funnier by the day :grin: :grin: :grin:

Why do you think I stick around? :P It's a barrel of laughs, through and through.

all programs have a Proof of Concept

Yet you cannot describe what the SU-26 was actually a proof of concept of. Good to know.

[Wolf_Rider]

Do some research into it Fjordmonkey, instead of just running off at the keyboard, (like a good little one) you might actually learn something on which you can retain credibilty on in commenting :)

Did you read that thread through I linked you to? (betcha didn't ;)

[bongodriver]

So ROF fanboys have killed CloD now.

Dear me.... this forum gets funnier by the day :grin: :grin: :grin:

Try looking at the oldest threads waaaay back and tell me anything really changed, the oldest post is some whinge by Furbs complaining about a 'promised' website looooong before release, so as you can see the famous double act have been working hard at it since the beginning.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=17410

[Meusli]

You are one of those who did their level best to destroy COD with your mouth on here - Look at your Avatar FFS!!! "Launcher has stopped working" created with your own hand. You don't even play COD!!! Yet in the new forums you are up Jason's backside about BOS. You and a minority like you have done a great dis-service to the oh so very niche flight sim community, you should hang your head in shame, what you and your pals have done makes me sick.

Makes you sick doesn't it. Well I hope the Luthier rumour is true and the guys at ATAG can finish CLOD as I do not feel like being part of a community of lickelspits.

[Fjordmonkey]

Do some research into it Fjordmonkey, instead of just running off at the keyboard, (like a good little one) you might actually learn something on which you can retain credibilty on in commenting :)

To be perfectly frank, I don't really care what the SU-26 was ment to be a proof of concept of. What I DO care about is that the dev-resources that was put into the SU-26 would be far better spent on work actually benefiting the product that was already out, since there were areas that needed far more work (AI, campaign-system etc) than the -26 was. If that gives me less credibility in your eyes, well, I'll live with that.

Did you read that thread through I linked you to? (betcha didn't ;)

First you have to link me something, since I'm not so good reading invisible things (yet) ;)

[Osprey]

Makes you sick doesn't it. Well I hope the Luthier rumour is true and the guys at ATAG can finish CLOD as I do not feel like being part of a community of lickelspits.


After reading the responses to requests and requirements from Jason I'm not convinced at all. I too am hoping for a decent crack to COD. It's not 'the guys at ATAG' alone, there is a wider community effort. I know for one that two of the ACG guys have been approached about modding. I would feel more comfortable about the whole COD modding business if it were a community centric model since the moment you have 'ownership' you will just end up with the same UP/SAS/HSFX fragmentation.

Fjordmonkey, of course I don't think that a few individuals could've bust COD but they added their contribution - all that propaganda has an effect on sales and pressure from the publishers - don't think for a minute it doesn't. My point is that they did it nevertheless and now they are good little boys "yes Jason, 777 will save it, look at wonderful ROF and the great community it has". I don't buy it, and at this rate I won't either.

[Wolf_Rider]

To be perfectly frank, I don't really care what the SU-26 was ment to be a proof of concept of. What I DO care about is that the dev-resources that was put into the SU-26 would be far better spent on work actually benefiting the product that was already out, since there were areas that needed far more work (AI, campaign-system etc) than the -26 was. If that gives me less credibility in your eyes, well, I'll live with that.


well, I guess you're living with it then... enjoy




First you have to link me something, since I'm not so good reading invisible things (yet) ;)




http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36477&page=15


125, 126, 131, 132 and 147... can you see all this, Fjordmonkey... you must be able to, since you have quoted it. Do we need to lead you there by the hand and personally introduce you to it ?? Or do we just keep on pointing out you just seem to be here for nefarious reasons only?

[Bearcat]

The posters in here who have done the greatest disservice to this sim are not it's critics but those who claim to be it's greatest fans.. and this place is the greatest example of that.

I started coming here because I could finally get CoD to run and wanted to get more involved with it after owning it for almost 2 years and not being able to use it at all.. but now I see another reason why this product has failed so.. This place is a cesspool .. an asylum run by the inmates.. If UBI was a Zoo then this place is a jungle where the clowns with the biggest mouths rule the roost.

I hope the rumors are true and that something good does come out of CoD ... but in the meantime you guys can have this place... If I need to find out about tweaks etc.. I will try to find them elsewhere. If I were a first time buyer of CoD and I was to come here looking for support I'd take a look at this place and walk away thinking that it was frequented by a bunch of kids who had no home training..

It is a shame that the moderators here allow this to remain this way.. but then I guess if they banned all the jerks in here there would only be a handful of people left..

[Fjordmonkey]

It is a shame that the moderators here allow this to remain this way.. but then I guess if they banned all the jerks in here there would only be a handful of people left..

There wouldn't be ANYONE left. :P

[bongodriver]

but those who claim to be it's greatest fans


My only issue with your above post is this quote, I have never seen anybody claim such things, this seems to be a typical description used by the games most avid critics toward anyone who choses to oppose their views.

[arthursmedley]

The posters in here who have done the greatest disservice to this sim are not it's critics but those who claim to be it's greatest fans.. and this place is the greatest example of that.



Any dispassionate reading of these boards can only lead to this one conclusion.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think if they introduced a "Peanut Gallery" section to the forum for people to post their opinions in the quality of posts would improve immensely! ;)

[Crumpp]

This place is a cesspool

Well said....

shame that the moderators here allow this to remain this way..


They forgot why people where banned in the first place at Ubi-zoo and decided to allow them back in.

[Igo kyu]

I think if they introduced a "Peanut Gallery" section to the forum for people to post their opinions in the quality of posts would improve immensely! ;)
They could (and did) call it the Pilot's Lounge.

[MB_Avro_UK]

The posters in here who have done the greatest disservice to this sim are not it's critics but those who claim to be it's greatest fans.. and this place is the greatest example of that.

I started coming here because I could finally get CoD to run and wanted to get more involved with it after owning it for almost 2 years and not being able to use it at all.. but now I see another reason why this product has failed so.. This place is a cesspool .. an asylum run by the inmates.. If UBI was a Zoo then this place is a jungle where the clowns with the biggest mouths rule the roost.

I hope the rumors are true and that something good does come out of CoD ... but in the meantime you guys can have this place... If I need to find out about tweaks etc.. I will try to find them elsewhere. If I were a first time buyer of CoD and I was to come here looking for support I'd take a look at this place and walk away thinking that it was frequented by a bunch of kids who had no home training..

It is a shame that the moderators here allow this to remain this way.. but then I guess if they banned all the jerks in here there would only be a handful of people left..

What a pompous and arrogant post:rolleyes:

You are a mod elsewhere yet you stick your knife into mods here.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[Skoshi Tiger]

They could (and did) call it the Pilot's Lounge.

LoL!

Too True!

[NZtyphoon]

Well said....



They forgot why people where banned in the first place at Ubi-zoo and decided to allow them back in.

If only some people who have been banned from other forums weren't so hypocritical. :rolleyes:

[Bearcat]

What a pompous and arrogant post:rolleyes:
You are a mod elsewhere yet you stick your knife into mods here.
Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Please.. what knife.. Grow up.

First off the fact that I am a mod else where has absolutely NOTHING to do with my opinion of the way this place is run, which is based solely on the way that I have been treated here just by virtue of showing my face and the way that I have seen others treated with no response from the moderators at all that I could see. The fact that it has been brought up in just about every thread that I have posted in but only here on these boards says a lot about just who this is an issue for. It certainly has no bearing on me or my posts here.. but everyone here who insults me seems to have an issue with it.. as if I have been sent by the enemy to spy.. on this now dead product with a bunch of mean spirited, nasty, immature fans who have big internet cajones and little else .. certainly no common sense to listen to a logical debate.. as if my mere presence will cause some kind of chaos in the CoDforce.. Please.. Get over yourselves.. I came here because I paid my hard earned money for this sim and had to wait YEARS before I could even run it.. which was cool with me .. but having to deal with the likes of some of the folks who post here now that I can finally run it has been the biggest shock.. That was more of a disappointment to me than not being able to run the sim for over a year.. because in spite of all the warnings I got about this place I really was not expecting this. Perhaps if CoD was still active.. if the 1C777 merger had never happened it would be different.. but that was not my doing. I had nothing to do with it and I moderate on the 1C777 boards because of my passion for IL2 and simming.. I do not have and never had any designs on trashing Cod, gloating about Cod, or any such notion and the fact that I hold quite a few people on this board in utter and complete contempt has nothing to do with anything other than the way that the continually try to brow beta anyone and everyone who disagrees with them .. There is only one mod here that I have seen who is worth the name .. and that is all I will say about my opinion of the mods here.

I guess since you saw that I changed my avatar and sig pic that I was "back" so you'd drop in here and take another swipe but in truth I never left.. I just refuse to engage in a battle of wits with paranoid unarmed men who have nothing better to do with their time than try to bully and browbeat people who disagree with them about a piece of friggin software.

As I said I had heard stuff about this place but I never experienced it first hand, because the IL2 boards are not like the CoD boards, until I finally decided to spend more time over here because I wanted to try to give CoD a real go now that I can run it and where else to go to get the 411 on the sim than the official site right? I was not expecting what I did get. It is truly shameful the way this place has been allowed to become..... People who paid for CoD .. or IL2 for that matter have lifetime bans from here because of some nonsense that happened on this forum. That is why even at UBI when I was moderating there I was always dead set against lifetime bans unless it was an absolute clear cut case and I never found one that I felt warranted it. Over here some of these mods let their personal feelings for CoD get in the way too much. I have had my wife insulted.. my character insulted.. and not just me but so so many others, too many others as well and in many cases it was just because they were not happy with the product they bought.. and the truth of the matter is that CoD WAS a POS when it was released for most of the people who bought it..

I got all this flak simply because the new forum exists, and the facts that 1) I moderate there 2) CoD was canned and 3) BoS is coming.. I have very little if any history on the CoD boards .. I may have posted here a few times over the years because I am a forum hound.. but because I could not get CoD to run until this past September when I upgraded.. and mind you.. I got my DDL from UBI within the first two weeks of the sim's release.. I knew I couldn't run it but I wanted to support the sim.. so you do what you can, but I shied away from here because I couldn't run the sim so what could I do ? I just enjoyed IL2 till I could. Yet all I have gotten here from this place is BS.. insults and hassles from too many members of this board. One is too many as far as IO am concerned. Some of these same people would not tolerate a guest in their home being treated the way some folks here are on a daily basis with not even so much as "a knock it off guys" from the mods here. I have been told that I broke out my knee pads.. Now of course that statement can insinuate any number of things .. from getting on my knees to worship to more.. physical acts.. but none of the insinuations are flattering ... yet that is allowed here.. It is shameful. You forget that this is not YOUR forum .. this forum is here for customers of 1C.. Customers like you and I both ... and I have done nothing to warrant the treatment that I have received just by showing up. I have seen others treated in similar fashion.. called liars.. spys.. Jason's minions.. all kinds of condescending derogatory references... told to just go away.. as if the people here owned these boards and had the right to send 1C customers packing.. and the mods here do nothing.

If my feeling that way sounds arrogant and pompus to you then so be it.. but I stand by it. I also stand by everything I said in the post that prompted your response. If I were a paying customer who just bought CoD because I loved flight sims and decided what the he@ll I'll give it a shot even if the reviews are bad.. because it's IL2 and I heard that sim was great... I would show up here and wonder if I just threw my money away. You people act as if the critics of IL2 had the numbers or the power to destroy the sim. That is ridiculous.. Even if the most vocal and prolific critics numbered in the hundreds.. several hundreds.. they would have far less impact nationally that you assume. Look at te critics of IL2.. they numbered in the hundreds.. the high hundreds.. There were die hard CFS fans who acted just like you about CFS .. some of them are just now getting into IL2.. 7 years ago their numbers were even greater..if you consider the FA/Warbirds/AH/CFS crowds.. but that did not stop the sales of IL2.. It grew.. because it was a good product warts and all .. The notion that somehow CoD's critics killed it .. and that that justifies their abuse is a foolish and narrow indeed notion. At best all they did was ofend some folks on these boards but the death of CoD lay solely in the hands of the developers and marketers who built it and marketed it so some of you need to stop abusing newcomers to this board as if the did something to you personally .. like killed your dog or slapped your mother or copped a feel off of your wife..

I know of course that the usual clods will pop up here and trash everything I said with their usual brilliant insight and commentary.. and that's cool.. I expect it .. I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.

[Skoshi Tiger]

No one minds constructive criticism, it's the way improvements are made and it's a way feedback is given to the developers of a product.

The problem with CoD is that some of its critics acted in a vexatious manner. People went out of their way to heap crap on the sim for a more than year before its release. They were destructive in their criticism and went out of their way to disrupt the forum by making controversial posts. They were the classic internet trolls and some of them are still popping back to this forum to cause trouble. This is unacceptable by any standards.

These trolls may or may not have killed CoD but they sure made the forum unpleasant. Thankfully a lot of them have new places to devote their attention to. Good luck to them!

[Bearcat]

Yes but I had nothing to do with any of that. The full measure of my criticism of CoD over the years could be summed up in .. "I still can't run it.. " .. and there have been others here as well who have had to deal with just outright wrong treatment from other folks here.. not because they said anything bad about CoD but because they mentioned another sim .. that is ridiculous.. and it is wrong and the folks here who call this place home should not be either engaging in such behavior or sanctioning it by sitting back doing nothing.

I wish this place well.. and as I said.. I have never been one to cut and run.. so I will pop in here because I am a forum hound and I do own the sim.. but I don't see myself being here very much.. as much as I visit other more sane forums.. Even the 1C IL2 boards are not this.. antagonistic.

[WTE_Galway]

No one minds constructive criticism, it's the way improvements are made and it's a way feedback is given to the developers of a product.

The problem with CoD is that some of its critics acted in a vexatious manner. People went out of their way to heap crap on the sim for a more than year before its release. They were destructive in their criticism and went out of their way to disrupt the forum by making controversial posts. They were the classic internet trolls and some of them are still popping back to this forum to cause trouble. This is unacceptable by any standards.

These trolls may or may not have killed CoD but they sure made the forum unpleasant. Thankfully a lot of them have new places to devote their attention to. Good luck to them!

The pre-release troll-fest was hilarious.

If someone brought up genuine issues like the wrong type of instruments fitted to aircraft they were ignored while meanwhile people argued for 150 pages about what the "correct" color of the flax fields in 1930s Britain was :D

[Wolf_Rider]

as Bearcat makes a mockery of himself, by wallowing in a place refers to as a cesspool




~ This place is a cesspool .. an asylum run by the inmates.. If UBI was a Zoo then this place is a jungle where the clowns with the biggest mouths rule the roost.

but in the meantime you guys can have this place...

[Verhängnis]

It's k Bearcat, pop into SAS and we'll get all your CoD needs and knows sorted, and with good moderators to keep the crazies away. :-P

[Igo kyu]

I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.
In my case I called Cliffs of Dover that to avoid confusion with Call of Duty, which existed years before it, COD BLOPS was a recent iteration of that I believe. :grin:

[Verhängnis]

CoDuty is trash, there's a difference. ;) For one, the tracers are better.

[Wolf_Rider]

uh oh!... they'll be arguing over what colour the sky is next ;)

[Bearcat]

It's k Bearcat, pop into SAS and we'll get all your CoD needs and knows sorted, and with good moderators to keep the crazies away. :-P

Thanks I will definitely take you up on that.. Verhängnis ..

as Bearcat makes a mockery of himself, by wallowing in a place refers to as a cesspool

Yeah but you know what..? In spite of all that .. I still don't manage to make myself look as ridiculous as you do with just about every post you make.. so in reality I am ahead of the game..

[Wolf_Rider]

startrekmike would say to that, "stop attacking people".

Me however? I would say, "you might you're ahead of the pack, but in reality you're wallowing in a place you refer to as;

~ This place is a cesspool .. an asylum run by the inmates.. If UBI was a Zoo then this place is a jungle where the clowns with the biggest mouths rule the roost. and you carry on as though you think you do rule"

[MB_Avro_UK]

Please.. what knife.. Grow up.

First off the fact that I am a mod else where has absolutely NOTHING to do with my opinion of the way this place is run, which is based solely on the way that I have been treated here just by virtue of showing my face and the way that I have seen others treated with no response from the moderators at all that I could see. The fact that it has been brought up in just about every thread that I have posted in but only here on these boards says a lot about just who this is an issue for. It certainly has no bearing on me or my posts here.. but everyone here who insults me seems to have an issue with it.. as if I have been sent by the enemy to spy.. on this now dead product with a bunch of mean spirited, nasty, immature fans who have big internet cajones and little else .. certainly no common sense to listen to a logical debate.. as if my mere presence will cause some kind of chaos in the CoDforce.. Please.. Get over yourselves.. I came here because I paid my hard earned money for this sim and had to wait YEARS before I could even run it.. which was cool with me .. but having to deal with the likes of some of the folks who post here now that I can finally run it has been the biggest shock.. That was more of a disappointment to me than not being able to run the sim for over a year.. because in spite of all the warnings I got about this place I really was not expecting this. Perhaps if CoD was still active.. if the 1C777 merger had never happened it would be different.. but that was not my doing. I had nothing to do with it and I moderate on the 1C777 boards because of my passion for IL2 and simming.. I do not have and never had any designs on trashing Cod, gloating about Cod, or any such notion and the fact that I hold quite a few people on this board in utter and complete contempt has nothing to do with anything other than the way that the continually try to brow beta anyone and everyone who disagrees with them .. There is only one mod here that I have seen who is worth the name .. and that is all I will say about my opinion of the mods here.

I guess since you saw that I changed my avatar and sig pic that I was "back" so you'd drop in here and take another swipe but in truth I never left.. I just refuse to engage in a battle of wits with paranoid unarmed men who have nothing better to do with their time than try to bully and browbeat people who disagree with them about a piece of friggin software.

As I said I had heard stuff about this place but I never experienced it first hand, because the IL2 boards are not like the CoD boards, until I finally decided to spend more time over here because I wanted to try to give CoD a real go now that I can run it and where else to go to get the 411 on the sim than the official site right? I was not expecting what I did get. It is truly shameful the way this place has been allowed to become..... People who paid for CoD .. or IL2 for that matter have lifetime bans from here because of some nonsense that happened on this forum. That is why even at UBI when I was moderating there I was always dead set against lifetime bans unless it was an absolute clear cut case and I never found one that I felt warranted it. Over here some of these mods let their personal feelings for CoD get in the way too much. I have had my wife insulted.. my character insulted.. and not just me but so so many others, too many others as well and in many cases it was just because they were not happy with the product they bought.. and the truth of the matter is that CoD WAS a POS when it was released for most of the people who bought it..

I got all this flak simply because the new forum exists, and the facts that 1) I moderate there 2) CoD was canned and 3) BoS is coming.. I have very little if any history on the CoD boards .. I may have posted here a few times over the years because I am a forum hound.. but because I could not get CoD to run until this past September when I upgraded.. and mind you.. I got my DDL from UBI within the first two weeks of the sim's release.. I knew I couldn't run it but I wanted to support the sim.. so you do what you can, but I shied away from here because I couldn't run the sim so what could I do ? I just enjoyed IL2 till I could. Yet all I have gotten here from this place is BS.. insults and hassles from too many members of this board. One is too many as far as IO am concerned. Some of these same people would not tolerate a guest in their home being treated the way some folks here are on a daily basis with not even so much as "a knock it off guys" from the mods here. I have been told that I broke out my knee pads.. Now of course that statement can insinuate any number of things .. from getting on my knees to worship to more.. physical acts.. but none of the insinuations are flattering ... yet that is allowed here.. It is shameful. You forget that this is not YOUR forum .. this forum is here for customers of 1C.. Customers like you and I both ... and I have done nothing to warrant the treatment that I have received just by showing up. I have seen others treated in similar fashion.. called liars.. spys.. Jason's minions.. all kinds of condescending derogatory references... told to just go away.. as if the people here owned these boards and had the right to send 1C customers packing.. and the mods here do nothing.

If my feeling that way sounds arrogant and pompus to you then so be it.. but I stand by it. I also stand by everything I said in the post that prompted your response. If I were a paying customer who just bought CoD because I loved flight sims and decided what the he@ll I'll give it a shot even if the reviews are bad.. because it's IL2 and I heard that sim was great... I would show up here and wonder if I just threw my money away. You people act as if the critics of IL2 had the numbers or the power to destroy the sim. That is ridiculous.. Even if the most vocal and prolific critics numbered in the hundreds.. several hundreds.. they would have far less impact nationally that you assume. Look at te critics of IL2.. they numbered in the hundreds.. the high hundreds.. There were die hard CFS fans who acted just like you about CFS .. some of them are just now getting into IL2.. 7 years ago their numbers were even greater..if you consider the FA/Warbirds/AH/CFS crowds.. but that did not stop the sales of IL2.. It grew.. because it was a good product warts and all .. The notion that somehow CoD's critics killed it .. and that that justifies their abuse is a foolish and narrow indeed notion. At best all they did was ofend some folks on these boards but the death of CoD lay solely in the hands of the developers and marketers who built it and marketed it so some of you need to stop abusing newcomers to this board as if the did something to you personally .. like killed your dog or slapped your mother or copped a feel off of your wife..

I know of course that the usual clods will pop up here and trash everything I said with their usual brilliant insight and commentary.. and that's cool.. I expect it .. I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.

Same ol' Bearcat:rolleyes:

You've been used to being a protected species on the old il2 Forum. But here you're not. Get used to it. Every time you try to throw your digital weight around here, I will be here to respond.

That was a big post you made. Hurting?

Yawn......


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

[SlipBall]

. ..

.. I always did find it interesting though that the the most ardent fans of this sim preferred the term CloD over CoD... I never understood that. until I came here.


I think most did to differentiate from Call of Duty

[Rjel]

Same ol' Bearcat:rolleyes:

You've been used to being a protected species on the old il2 Forum. But here you're not. Get used to it. Every time you try to throw your digital weight around here, I will be here to respond.

That was a big post you made. Hurting?

Yawn......


Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

You've pretty much proved his point. Cesspool might be too kind.

[startrekmike]

I have a feeling that this thread will vanish, in fact, I hope it does.

I don't get it, we are all here for the same thing and yet there always seems to be a thread or two running on this board that continues the same circular arguments, posturing and finger pointing.

Well, lets hope that by the time I post this, the mods will have deleted this one also, it has gotten out of control, personal opinions about products are one thing, belittling and dividing the player base is another.

How long has this kind of stuff been going on here? How long can it continue?

[Skoshi Tiger]

I have a feeling that this thread will vanish, in fact, I hope it does.

I don't get it, we are all here for the same thing and yet there always seems to be a thread or two running on this board that continues the same circular arguments, posturing and finger pointing.

Well, lets hope that by the time I post this, the mods will have deleted this one also, it has gotten out of control, personal opinions about products are one thing, belittling and dividing the player base is another.

How long has this kind of stuff been going on here? How long can it continue?

Threads like this will continue until people stop posting in them. If you are not interested in a thread don't post in it. If you do the thread will go to the top of the list and more people will read and possibly respond to any one of the comment in the thread. thus perpetuating the active life of the thread.

If you can't help your self and have to respond to comments made, try ignoring the people whos post you find annoying. The forum has that feature for a reason.

Some people have the attitude that they have to win a point when posting on a forum. This is of course complete rubbish. There are no winners and no loosers. Just opinions and people are entitled to those.

Personally if I find a persons opinions repulsive, in real life I wouldn't associate with them or communicate with them. In my opinion on-line is no different.

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think most did to differentiate from Call of Duty

You might be right there.

I think the term was coined by haters to denigrate the sim. But just like Lord Haw Haw found when he used the term 'Desert Rats' as a put down, the men that he directed it at took it to heart and used it as a honorific.

I personally use the term CoD. But seening how I've only played Call of Duty 3 times I don't associate the sim with the FPS.

[Feathered_IV]

So far the new il-2 forum has been a pleasant place to visit. I hope the more rigorous moderation will continue and that it will help re-educate the community and teach them to conduct themselves better. I don't know why the moderation here has been so very poor for so many years. Whether it was laziness, personal agendas, or whether they just weren't sophisticated enough to make good decisions. Whatever the reason, there is ample evidence to show that they have failed in their duties. The degree of bullying, slander and relentless goading that goes on daily here is truly shameful. The forum seems to bring out the worst in every personality, and not a single one of us is free of blame for that. I'm just as dismayed by the demise of Cliffs' as anybody else, but one upshot of the entire debacle is that we might one day be able to put this place behind us.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Re-educate as in a re-education camp?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reeducation_camp

Reeducation camp (Vietnamese: trại học tập cải tạo) is the official title given to the prison camps operated by the government of Vietnam following the end of the Vietnam War. In such "reeducation camps", the government imprisoned several hundred thousand former military officers and government workers from the former regime of South Vietnam. Reeducation as it was implemented in Vietnam was seen as both a means of revenge and a sophisticated technique of repression and indoctrination, which developed for several years in the North and was extended to the South following the 1975 North Vietnam takeover.[citation needed]



Hmmm! Maybe adults should act in an adult like mannor and not take everything as a personal insult, but as an adult I enjoy being able to have my own opinion and be able speak my own mind. As long as people can maintain a mature composure it shouldn't matter what they talk about.

It would be better if people behaived in an appropriate manner without the need of a big stick.

I have no complaints against any of the moderators at this site. It is a awful job and I would be loathed to do it. All praise to them that stood up and took on the responsibility.

I'm just as dismayed by the demise of Cliffs' as anybody else, but one upshot of the entire debacle is that we might one day be able to put this place behind us.

You can do that any time you want? It's not as though your being held here against your will.

[Feathered_IV]

You can do that any time you want? It's not as though your being held here against your will.

I know, I know! ;)
I can quit any time, honest... :shifty expression:

[Bearcat]

Same ol' Bearcat:rolleyes:
You've been used to being a protected species on the old il2 Forum. But here you're not. Get used to it. Every time you try to throw your digital weight around here, I will be here to respond.
That was a big post you made. Hurting?
Yawn......
Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Actually.. and I don't want this to sound arrogant because I do not mean it that way at all.. but I am not used to being protected.. I am used to being respected in cyberspace and in the real world.... and that is not because I am special or anything at all like that but on most forums that I frequent and during the course of my day, for the most part I am treated with the same courtesy and respect that I try to give others... Here for some reason, it is different.. and that most likely solely because I happen to mod elsewhere and actually not just elsewhere .. but in the pit of flight sim Babylon itself!! LMAO.... If I were not a moderator on IL2 I am pretty certain I would not be getting some of this flak .. but since I am a mod there I must somehow be some kind of shady guy here to subvert this forum as a spy succumbing to the Jedi mindtricks of the Sith Lord Jason Williams.. ROFLMAO!!

What you fail to realizes is that from my perspective.. I have no "digital weight" to throw around ... here or elsewhere.

If there is one lesson I learned very well being a moderator at UBI for as long as I was it is that all this internet "weight" you speak of is an illusion. It is meaningless.. it comes and it goes.. and it has no bearing on who you are .. unless you "toss it around" as you say.. in a way that signifies that you have no respect for others and thereby no self respect.. I serve on the IL2 boards because as I said in another thread.. I was raised to kick in.. I was raised to contribute and serve where you can in the capacity that you can.. and I was raised to pay your way.. and if someone else pays your way .. then that means you have to pay someone else's way.. Paying it forward is a rule I try to live by.. So I am glad to be able to get in on the ground floor engaging in a hobby that I have a great deal of passion for and get a great deal of pleasure from and continue to be in a position to keep my ear to the ground and look forward to what's coming down the pike. I have wanted to get to the next level for a long time.. and so far nothing has manged to scratch that itch.. Hopefully that will change in 12-23 months .. give or take..

.. and as for you "being here to respond" ... LOL.. well OK Avro.. You go right on and respond however you like .. for what it is worth.. I was taken aback by my initial reception here .. but now that I know the rules.. I can play.. but I will not get into a battle of wits with unarmed men. You go right on and protect this place from me and my evil machinations.. As I said in another thread... I have a wife of 24 years going through menopause, I have 7 kids and 8 grandkids.. There is NOTHING that you or anyone else on this forum or anywhere else can say or do to shake me.. ESPECIALLY not here.. now that I know what I am dealing with... soo you go on and keep watch there Officer Dibble.. I'm going to go look for some pikinik baskets..

Oh and thank you for your compliment on my post.. I do aim to please.

[kendo65]

So far the new il-2 forum has been a pleasant place to visit. I hope the more rigorous moderation will continue and that it will help re-educate the community and teach them to conduct themselves better. I don't know why the moderation here has been so very poor for so many years. Whether it was laziness, personal agendas, or whether they just weren't sophisticated enough to make good decisions. Whatever the reason, there is ample evidence to show that they have failed in their duties. The degree of bullying, slander and relentless goading that goes on daily here is truly shameful. The forum seems to bring out the worst in every personality, and not a single one of us is free of blame for that. I'm just as dismayed by the demise of Cliffs' as anybody else, but one upshot of the entire debacle is that we might one day be able to put this place behind us.

The moderators had a really difficult job here. I think their over-riding concern since the launch was to allow for free speech and honestly expressed opinions as much as possible. It was a thankless and near impossible task. Whatever they did they would annoy someone or other. People were banned when they really over-stepped the mark, as Tree's repeated absences showed.

If they had clamped down really hard a year ago there would have been a backlash with (some) people complaining of over-zealousness and blocking of free speech.

Maybe with hindsight (?) that would have been a price worth paying? But I don't think it would have changed the final outcome.


'bullying, slander and relentless goading',
I usually have taken a stance of either accepting people's right to express what they feel or have tried to respond respectfully and carefully with reasoned arguments where I may disagree, BUT recently it has gone beyond where this is an adequate response, with certain people repeatedly attacking forum members and other sims in the most personal, unbalanced, aggressive and unreasonable way, despite having their 'points' repeatedly shown to be unfounded.

When logic doesn't work and when they won't stop trying to shove you around it is finally time to start pushing back in the same manner they use...
or walk away completely...something that may yet be the best idea.

[Wolf_Rider]

So far the new il-2 forum has been a pleasant place to visit. I hope the more rigorous moderation will continue and that it will help re-educate the community and teach them to conduct themselves better.


There is this "re-educate" thing again...
I don't know what it is with people and their insistence that others must be re-educated (or made to see the one point of view), as the very worst countries on Earth all had re-education on their books. How, some say, the more we forget the past, the more we are doomed to repeat that past.

There was this country in central Europe which tried it pre and during WWII along with another small country to the south, there was another larger country, to the east, which tried it a few decades earlier whilst going through a revolution. Someone mentioned a S.E.Asian country bunging it on in the 70's... well there was another country to the west of that one which also did it, and opened up entire fields for the end result. To the north of those two is another large country trying it on again today.
A certain 'church' also tried it a couple of centuries ago, and man did they have the tools to do it with! As well, there is another "church" also trying it on today.


The mindset of "making" people see only the one point of view IS WRONG!





When logic doesn't work and when they won't stop trying to shove you around it is finally time to start pushing back in the same manner they use...
or walk away completely...something that may yet be the best idea.





the aim of that tactic is to have "dissenters" walk away

[SlipBall]

Actually.. and I don't want this to sound arrogant because I do not mean it that way at all.. but I am not used to being protected.. I am used to being respected in cyberspace and in the real world.... and that is not because I am special or anything at all like that but on most forums that I frequent and during the course of my day, for the most part I am treated with the same courtesy and respect that I try to give others... Here for some reason, it is different.. and that most likely solely because I happen to mod elsewhere and actually not just elsewhere .. but in the pit of flight sim Babylon itself!! LMAO.... If I were not a moderator on IL2 I am pretty certain I would not be getting some of this flak .. but since I am a mod there I must somehow be some kind of shady guy here to subvert this forum as a spy succumbing to the Jedi mindtricks of the Sith Lord Jason Williams.. ROFLMAO!!

What you fail to realizes is that from my perspective.. I have no "digital weight" to throw around ... here or elsewhere.

If there is one lesson I learned very well being a moderator at UBI for as long as I was it is that all this internet "weight" you speak of is an illusion. It is meaningless.. it comes and it goes.. and it has no bearing on who you are .. unless you "toss it around" as you say.. in a way that signifies that you have no respect for others and thereby no self respect.. I serve on the IL2 boards because as I said in another thread.. I was raised to kick in.. I was raised to contribute and serve where you can in the capacity that you can.. and I was raised to pay your way.. and if someone else pays your way .. then that means you have to pay someone else's way.. Paying it forward is a rule I try to live by.. So I am glad to be able to get in on the ground floor engaging in a hobby that I have a great deal of passion for and get a great deal of pleasure from and continue to be in a position to keep my ear to the ground and look forward to what's coming down the pike. I have wanted to get to the next level for a long time.. and so far nothing has manged to scratch that itch.. Hopefully that will change in 12-23 months .. give or take..

.. and as for you "being here to respond" ... LOL.. well OK Avro.. You go right on and respond however you like .. for what it is worth.. I was taken aback by my initial reception here .. but now that I know the rules.. I can play.. but I will not get into a battle of wits with unarmed men. You go right on and protect this place from me and my evil machinations.. As I said in another thread... I have a wife of 24 years going through menopause, I have 7 kids and 8 grandkids.. There is NOTHING that you or anyone else on this forum or anywhere else can say or do to shake me.. ESPECIALLY not here.. now that I know what I am dealing with... soo you go on and keep watch there Officer Dibble.. I'm going to go look for some pikinik baskets..

Oh and thank you for your compliment on my post.. I do aim to please.


Do you have any game questions, you seem to be here just to let off some steam :lol:

[Wolf_Rider]

not allowed to do that OTR, they get banned for it, lol :)

[Fjordmonkey]

There is this "re-educate" thing again...
I don't know what it is with people and their insistence that others must be re-educated (or made to see the one point of view), as the very worst countries on Earth all had re-education on their books. How, some say, the more we forget the past, the more we are doomed to repeat that past.

There was this country in central Europe which tried it pre and during WWII along with another small country to the south, there was another larger country, to the east, which tried it a few decades earlier whilst going through a revolution. Someone mentioned a S.E.Asian country bunging it on in the 70's... well there was another country to the west of that one which also did it, and opened up entire fields for the end result. To the north of those two is another large country trying it on again today.
A certain 'church' also tried it a couple of centuries ago, and man did they have the tools to do it with! As well, there is another "church" also trying it on today.

The mindset of "making" people see only the one point of view IS WRONG!

the aim of that tactic is to have "dissenters" walk away

It's more about getting people to discuss things in a sensible, constructive and adult manner (something I'll wholeheartedly and honestly admit that I fail at from time to time) instead of being small-minded, foul-mouthed and frothing trolls. People are entitled to having their point of view, but they should also be able to discuss that point of view in, again, a constructive manner. Which is something that we've seen fail time and time again here.

Or to put it bluntly: Behave, or face the consequences. Forums on the 'net has never been, is not and will never be a democracy. ALL of them are dictatorships in one form or another, and you accept that when you create your account and when you log into them. Free speech does NOT exist on a forum, although that's something many people utterly forget or don't bother realizing.

In my opinion, the moderators should have been way harsher in removing those that cannot or will not behave and post in a sensible manner. At this point it's not even worth discussing, as most of the posts on this forum has long since outlived their usefulness apart from a historical record of a game that had impossibly high expectations facing it from the community.

[Wolf_Rider]

define: "In a sensible manner" for us, if you would please Fjordmonkey, as you mean it to be

also, if you would, please define: "free speech"


yes, people are very much entitled to have their point of view, as much as they are also entitled to not have that (another) point of view rammed down their throats... they are also entitled not to be called names.

[Fjordmonkey]

define: "In a sensible manner" for us, if you would please Fjordmonkey, as you mean it to be

A sensible manner = a manner where people that may have vastly different points of view can still manage to discuss the good and bad sides of the coin from both sides in an adult fashion, without letting emotion bleed into it, without namecalling, without being attacked for having a different point of view than the other side. Something that has happened here in the past, and continues to happen since the moderators haven't been hard enough on the ball.

also, if you would, please define: "free speech"

I'm not a thesaurus, Wolf, and I'm pretty sure you can google it to get the definition.


yes, people are very much entitled to have their point of view, as much as they are also entitled to not have that (another) point of view rammed down their throats... they are also entitled not to be called names.


My point is that unless people can behave, they should be punished. The main problem for any moderator is to be consistent about what acceptable behavior is, and to be consistent in the punishment of transgressors.

[Wolf_Rider]

okay.....

"A sensible manner = a manner where people that may have vastly different points of view can still manage to discuss the good and bad sides of the coin from both sides in an adult fashion, without letting emotion bleed into it, without namecalling, without being attacked for having a different point of view than the other side.

How that be, when you consider some people to be "small-minded, foul-mouthed and frothing trolls"? doesn't that very premise negate your position?


I already have several different interpretations of what "free speech" is, Fjordmonkey. I was asking you for yours... but to save a lot of grief, I'll just cut the chase and offer "calling people names", just inhibits their right to free speech through intimidation.

[raaaid]

personally i rather the anarchy at rof forums(not banning not to lose potential customers)

you get to see peoples real face not like bos forums where people SEEM civilized

the person who i got to admire and love the most was piersjaeger

he was so civilized he could not be from this time

edit:

im the perfect example of a person using freedom of speech,(had the nazis won i would be in a gulag) to which some people insulting me think theyre using theirs

[Jatta Raso]

so here is where you guys come to when dumped from the vaporized threads... :mrgreen:

[Bearcat]

Do you have any game questions, you seem to be here just to let off some steam :lol:

Actually I have asked game questions in other threads.. but this thread is titled "locked threads on il2.." if I am not mistaken no? So I am actually on topic. I am just responding to a thread that OBVIOUSLY is directed at me at the very least indirectly.


@ Kendo .. You are correct... being a mod is a thankless task under certain circumstances but my philosophy is .. If I am going to be maligned for doing my job as amoderator then I would much rather be makigned by those who are behaving in a manner and treating people in a fashion that I would prefer not to. On the flipnside if I am going to be considered fair I would prefer to be considered fair by people who actually understand what fairness actually is.

[Fjordmonkey]

okay.....

"A sensible manner = a manner where people that may have vastly different points of view can still manage to discuss the good and bad sides of the coin from both sides in an adult fashion, without letting emotion bleed into it, without namecalling, without being attacked for having a different point of view than the other side.

How that be, when you consider some people to be "small-minded, foul-mouthed and frothing trolls"? doesn't that very premise negate your position?

Do you honestly want me to believer, Wolf, that you don't know the difference from a discussion between two sensible people and someone who just wants to troll and provoke a shit-throwing contest? You have been here on these boards long enough that the difference between them should be rather obvious.

I already have several different interpretations of what "free speech" is, Fjordmonkey. I was asking you for yours... but to save a lot of grief, I'll just cut the chase and offer "calling people names", just inhibits their right to free speech through intimidation.

If someone is intimidated by another member on an internet discussion-board, then I would say that the 'net is probably not for them. Especially if you're dealing with a forum where you have people of many different nationalities and languages present.

My interpretation of what free speech actually happens to be on an internet board is irrelevant, since there IS no free speech on a forum like this. Asking me what my definition is in regards to real life is equally irrelevant, since that doesn't have any bearings on what happens here. But since you asked, I'll answer: Personally, I think that free speech is nonexistent, since unless you can't, in any country of the world, say absolutely anything you want without being punished for it.

[KG26_Alpha]

Ok

enough is enough


Please note any more threads started here regarding moderation on other forums and discussions of moderation decisions
will be deleted and the member given an infraction or banned.

If a thread is started regarding the above and replied to before moderation is applied, all involved will receive infractions or bans.

Thanks