No clickable cockpit! Are they for real.

[banned]

Just read a post from Jason, on the 'other' forum, that they won't be doing clickable cockpits. That's extremely disappointing. It was one of the features that made Clod awesome.

Perhaps our community can convince the 'new' developers that this was one of the main attractions to the Sim.

Of course I could be wrong, and no one cares whether we have clickable cockpits or not.

Would a poll be suitable perhaps? It could double as a petition.

Thoughts? :confused:

[Yvetette]

No clickable cockpit and DX9. It really looks like the old days are coming back:)

[Slipstream2012]

Link from poll for ROF which just about says it all.

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=301&t=31688&hilit=Clickable+Cockpits

Clickable cockpits are cheesy!

[banned]

Link from poll for ROF which just about says it all.

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=301&t=31688&hilit=Clickable+Cockpits

Clickable cockpits are cheesy!
Cheesy hey. Yeah probably is with a WWI sim where there's a couple of levers. Putting everything to keyboard, in a more complex sim, isn't feasible. I love the clickable cockpit in Clod, and also in the DCS A-10 and Blackshark.

I suppose if you're just after a game then RoF will do.

[CWMV]

Clickable cockpit=pain in the a**.

[banned]

Clickable cockpit=pain in the a**.
Well stop the other thing you must be doing when you're using a clickable cockpit. I don't see why you would do both at the same time anyway. Could just be the way you sit I suppose. :)

[banned]

Originally Posted by Slipstream2012
Link from poll for ROF which just about says it all.

http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewto...kable+Cockpits
_____________________________________________

That poll was the RoF game players. It could be that our community has a different view. Why would RoF game players want total realism when the 'big' trench battle below you have all the soldiers wearing invisibility cloaks.

[ATAG_Bliss]

_____________________________________________

That poll was the RoF game players. It could be that our community has a different view. Why would RoF game players want total realism when the 'big' trench battle below you have all the soldiers wearing invisibility cloaks.

lol that's how they do it ;)

[NaBkin]

I like clickable cockpits myself, but as Jason stated, it's not the end of the world if they dont do it. I mean, I only use it for turning on the fuelcock anyway. If everything in the cockpit works, it's nice to have but not crucial.

[Flanker35M]

S!

Can live without clickable cockpit if everything else is done well.

[6S.Manu]

For my taste I really prefer the ROF community to this one: those players are focused on the application's real target: being a WW1 combat simulator.

I'm always been against clickable cockpits: it's good for FSX, is not for a combat sim... Even if it's a toggleable feature, as you can still manage the plane by keys, it's a loss of time and resources on something that's it's not really important.

Like the 3d modelling of cows, sheeps and chessboards.

Now 777 is taking the big part in this new project: it's like a dream to me.

[ParaB]

Clickable cockpits in WW2 aircraft are a "nice to have" feature for me. Nice if it's implemented but no big deal if it's absent. There are a lot more features that are far more important to me.

[pupo162]

i was agiasnt clickables in the beggining but now its kind of nice being able to fly a plane without having to set up all the keys for it first.

[Hooves]

For my taste I really prefer the ROF community to this one: those players are focused on the application's real target: being a WW1 combat simulator.

I'm always been against clickable cockpits: it's good for FSX, is not for a combat sim... Even if it's a toggleable feature, as you can still manage the plane by keys, it's a loss of time and resources on something that's it's not really important.

Like the 3d modelling of cows, sheeps and chessboards.

Now 777 is taking the big part in this new project: it's like a dream to me.


+1 But wait man, NO COCKPIT DAMAGE!!! THE WORLD IS ENDING!! lol just kidding mate, Im with you, it is something that honestly I can do without.

[MadBlaster]

i absolutely hate cursor blinking click sounding click-able cockpit and data windows in my ww2 plane. don't waste time on this. instead put time and resources into optimal multi-threaded code that makes the sim run smooth as glass. for the next time please.

[Wolf_Rider]

Clickable cockpits is a nice feature... obviously, its too hard for them tp implement.

oh!, hang on... we'll implement it later - for a charge of course ;)

[Dano]

Didn't we have this very discussion here years ago when Oleg announced he wasn't going to do clickable cockpits for the then named Storm of War?

[wannabetheace]

i was agiasnt clickables in the beggining but now its kind of nice being able to fly a plane without having to set up all the keys for it first.

+1

[ems9]

i was agiasnt clickables in the beggining but now its kind of nice being able to fly a plane without having to set up all the keys for it first.

+1

It's like: we make a step to be less arcada (IL-2 1946) and more simer (Clod), then we get another step backwards to be more arcada (BoS).

I just love to see how people like to be blind folded with the future game.
RoF is such a limited game compared with our current CloD.

[Sokol1]

Clickable cockpit is a bunus, but live without this.
But please do animated cockpit swichs and levers, that react to keyboard/joystick commands, like in some IL-2 1946 planes.
Things like static brake lever, trim tabs... in CloD Spit/Hurris is disappointing.

Sokol1

[Hooves]

+1

It's like: we make a step to be less arcada (IL-2 1946) and more simer (Clod), then we get another step backwards to be more arcada (BoS).

I just love to see how people like to be blind folded with the future game.
RoF is such a limited game compared with our current CloD.


And yet, Clod is dead............. so now what? Gonna play BoB for ever? HAve fun with that.

[xpzorg]

For my taste I really prefer the ROF community to this one: those players are focused on the application's real target: being a WW1 combat simulator.

I'm always been against clickable cockpits: it's good for FSX, is not for a combat sim... Even if it's a toggleable feature, as you can still manage the plane by keys, it's a loss of time and resources on something that's it's not really important.

Like the 3d modelling of cows, sheeps and chessboards.

Now 777 is taking the big part in this new project: it's like a dream to me.
Because you might no flied in bombers.
I really disappointed about that future:(

[6S.Manu]

+1

It's like: we make a step to be less arcada (IL-2 1946) and more simer (Clod), then we get another step backwards to be more arcada (BoS).

I just love to see how people like to be blind folded with the future game.
RoF is such a limited game compared with our current CloD.

IMO there will be a knowledge merging: 777 develpers will use the experience of 1c developers to improve their engine (at least the graphic libraries => DX10/11).

CloD's ideas weren't bad, but it was incomplete and badly developed: those ideas and some solutions can be reproduced in the 777's engine.

[6S.Manu]

Because you might no flied in bombers.
I really disappointed about that future:(
!!!

Why not? Am I missing something?

[recoilfx]

Il2 has ALWAYS been a SURVEY SIM guys... Loss of click-able cockpit is not that important if all other aspects of combat is simulated well (CEM, FM, DM, collision, ballistics)....

If you want a uncompromising study sim, go fly DCS P-51D and pay for your $40 worth...

[d.burnette]

I guess having clickable cockpits is a nice addition, but for me I would not really use it , as I prefer to map the main functions to my HOTAS. I personally do not want to be looking down and clicking away with my mouse whilst flying and in combat.

[addman]

As long as we don't have some kind of touch based screen type standardized, click-able cockpits in a combat sim is something of a fun "extra". It's fun to poke around with but impractical as *curseword*. Maybe some of you (self-masochists?) take enjoyment in trying to control stuff like radiators and control-surfaces with the mouse, mid-combat. I, personally prefer to just slew those things to the HOTAS/joystick. In conclusion, it's a fun feature but far from game-breaking. There are more important stuff that makes up a good combat sim, co-ops for example....hrrrm.:rolleyes:

P.S It's things like click-able cockpits that was partly to blame for the failure of CloD, the team was too ambitious -yes they were- and tried to do EVERYTHING but that led to many half-finished or half-hearted features. I hope too see more of a focused approach on the new IL-2 title(s).

[robtek]

IMO there will be a knowledge merging: 777 develpers will use the experience of 1c developers to improve their engine (at least the graphic libraries => DX10/11).

CloD's ideas weren't bad, but it was incomplete and badly developed: those ideas and some solutions can be reproduced in the 777's engine.

Just to remind you, BoS - > RoF-engine -> DX9 only!!!

[lokitexas]

Clickable pits is a huge feature.

Saying it isnt for combat sims is ignorant. It worked well for DCS. Very well. Doing a real start up, adjusting finer things in the cockpit. Internal/external light switches, radio freq's, gear lever, clock, etc. etc. are what make the difference between a combat flight sim, and combat flight game.

Another ignorant statement is people saying they would rather have the controls mapped to a HOTAS. Did you know, you can still do that AND have clickable cockpits? Duh....

Like someone said, they dont want to go with DX11, sticking with DX9. Dont want clickable cockpits. Basically, I have a feeling its going to be a dumbed down version.

Have you seen the RoF engine? Looks good, but its barren. Ground objects are very low, no infantry, no airfield activity, and small air activity. Might work with WWI, but will be hollow for WWII.

[d.burnette]

Clickable pits is a huge feature.


Another ignorant statement is people saying they would rather have the controls mapped to a HOTAS. Did you know, you can still do that AND have clickable cockpits? Duh....


And why would that be an ignorant statement? is it not a matter of personal preference, if I would prefer to have control through my HOTAS rather than clicking around in the cockpit with a mouse?
As I said, it is a nice feature, but for me I prefer to use my HOTAS for the most part. Only time I would use the cockpit would be for say starting the engines.

[lokitexas]

And why would that be an ignorant statement? is it not a matter of personal preference, if I would prefer to have control through my HOTAS rather than clicking around in the cockpit with a mouse?
As I said, it is a nice feature, but for me I prefer to use my HOTAS for the most part. Only time I would use the cockpit would be for say starting the engines.

Because you can still have what you want mapped to your HOTAS, as well as being able to click in the cockpit. You like having nav lights on your HOTAS? Things like that?

Do you think I fly the Black Shark with only a stick and mouse? No. I click on the switches, but all my combat procedures (like targeting, locking, firing, gun ammo type switch, master arm, etc.) is set up on my HOTAS.

People think its one or the other.

Like I said...it seems like another War Thunder is coming for IL2.

[David Hayward]

They should not waste valuable dev time on making the cockpit clickable. Buy some decent control devices.

[MadBlaster]

Because you can still have what you want mapped to your HOTAS, as well as being able to click in the cockpit. You like having nav lights on your HOTAS? Things like that?

Do you think I fly the Black Shark with only a stick and mouse? No. I click on the switches, but all my combat procedures (like targeting, locking, firing, gun ammo type switch, master arm, etc.) is set up on my HOTAS.

People think its one or the other.

Like I said...it seems like another War Thunder is coming for IL2.


voice commands for the finer stuff like the nav lights. the rest on hotas and/or auxiliary game controllers/switches/custom devices. it is what db said above, personal preference. don't like having any overlays or mouse cursor on the screen, nor that mouse click feedback sound. to me that is more arcade than using controllers. so, these things, not a feature at all imo. just bloat.

[Red Dragon-DK]

Just to remind you, BoS - > RoF-engine -> DX9 only!!!

Are you kidding me? DX9. Is this what they call the future? I would call it back to the future. IL2 1946 take 1½.

Jason wrote he want us at give him credits. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36417&page=15
credit based on what? Makíng a WW2 sim out an old engien, when we had CLOD and the future ahead? Well credit is something you earn. And if you are doing a game on a old DX9 engien, still have troble fixing the things not working after 4 years, you have to do better than being "foolish enough to try" Sorry!

Give us what we had in CLOD in a NEW engien, put Clod standing in, create a new business model, so everyone have a complete SIM, with real adons with more planes, maps theaters in place for single acquisitions of aircraft, Then we can start credits.

[Hooves]

Because you can still have what you want mapped to your HOTAS, as well as being able to click in the cockpit. You like having nav lights on your HOTAS? Things like that?

Do you think I fly the Black Shark with only a stick and mouse? No. I click on the switches, but all my combat procedures (like targeting, locking, firing, gun ammo type switch, master arm, etc.) is set up on my HOTAS.

People think its one or the other.

Like I said...it seems like another War Thunder is coming for IL2.

You sir are a drama queen, all you need to do is read the FAQ and you would see that 777 isn't going to make a WT. It takes the sim community seriously, it is their passion. You are talking out your bum.


And BTW I had every function needed mapped to HOTAS in Black Shark/A-10/ Clod/ FSX and any other game that used clickable pits. Why? I have track IR and having to keep my head still perfectly so I could hit that one damn littel switch was really annoying and took WAY more time than just mapping it once. To each is own, but lets not get dramatic any more shall we?

[Hooves]

Are you kidding me? DX9. Is this what they call the future? I would call it back to the future. IL2 1946 take 1½.

Jason wrote he want us at give him credits. http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=36417&page=15
credit based on what? Makíng a WW2 sim out an old engien, when we had CLOD and the future ahead? Well credit is something you earn. And if you are doing a game on a old DX9 engien, still have troble fixing the things not working after 4 years, you have to do better than being "foolish enough to try" Sorry!

Give us what we had in CLOD in a NEW engien, put Clod standing in, create a new business model, so everyone have a complete SIM, with real adons with more planes, maps theaters in place for single acquisitions of aircraft, Then we can start credits.


Man a little demanding are we? Honestly, you are lucky they are picking up the title to continue. And as far as having to EARN credit. Jason turned RoF from a failure to a gem. He has EARNED his Credit. If you would read his statements he says the engine will get an overhaul, maybe not DX11, but he is "getting it ready for WWII aircraft". Man you crusaders are the most dramatic Ive seen you in years, its entertaining to say the least.

[Red Dragon-DK]

Man a little demanding are we? Honestly, you are lucky they are picking up the title to continue. And as far as having to EARN credit. Jason turned RoF from a failure to a gem. He has EARNED his Credit. If you would read his statements he says the engine will get an overhaul, maybe not DX11, but he is "getting it ready for WWII aircraft". Man you crusaders are the most dramatic Ive seen you in years, its entertaining to say the least.

LOL yes Im a bit demanding. The simple reson is that this sim are aming to replace CLOD sequel. I have been looking forward to that for a very long time. So I simply ask for the same high standard. And have not spottet that in anything I have seen so far in his engien. I belive CLOD cut had been turned out to be oustanding with the sequel. And the new customers that would buy the sequel would allso get CLOD to compleate the SIM.

The other thing is the business model. I despise the way to run a business. Insted make those adons people cut buy and all had the comlete SIM with all aircraft and maps at their disposal. I'm happy to entertain you. I will continue to do my best ;)

Cheers and happy flying

[6S.Manu]

Just to remind you, BoS - > RoF-engine -> DX9 only!!!

I mean that the 1C developers have experience with DX10 libraries, while 777 ones have not.

It should not be difficult to migrate a old engine's graphic libraries from DX9 to DX10 for them (not to DX11 since they probably have no experience, at least working with CloD).

[Continu0]

I can live without klickable cockpit, altough i really appreciatet them... but maybe we can look forward to this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3tJlFsGRSE

[Davy TASB]

LOL yes Im a bit demanding. The simple reson is that this sim are aming to replace CLOD sequel. I have been looking forward to that for a very long time. So I simply ask for the same high standard. And have not spottet that in anything I have seen so far in his engien. I belive CLOD cut had been turned out to be oustanding with the sequel. And the new customers that would buy the sequel would allso get CLOD to compleate the SIM.

The other thing is the business model. I despise the way to run a business. Insted make those adons people cut buy and all had the comlete SIM with all aircraft and maps at their disposal. I'm happy to entertain you. I will continue to do my best ;)

Cheers and happy flying

Your high standards consist of being able to fly through trees and having no rain in dear old blighty eh, righty O old bean! :grin:
As for the business model, you need to change your way of thinking or just stick to old flight sims. Flight simming has a small customer base and these days its either buy or die.
ROF has kept the money rolling in (Eagle Dynamics too) and are continuing to develop the sim. 1C has not.

Toodle pip!

[6S.Manu]

Clickable pits is a huge feature.

Saying it isnt for combat sims is ignorant. It worked well for DCS. Very well. Doing a real start up, adjusting finer things in the cockpit. Internal/external light switches, radio freq's, gear lever, clock, etc. etc. are what make the difference between a combat flight sim, and combat flight game.

Another ignorant statement is people saying they would rather have the controls mapped to a HOTAS. Did you know, you can still do that AND have clickable cockpits? Duh....

Like someone said, they dont want to go with DX11, sticking with DX9. Dont want clickable cockpits. Basically, I have a feeling its going to be a dumbed down version.

Have you seen the RoF engine? Looks good, but its barren. Ground objects are very low, no infantry, no airfield activity, and small air activity. Might work with WWI, but will be hollow for WWII.

Please, my educated friend, can you list me all the actions a pilot can do in a 109 compared to a A10 pilot during the flight?

In a modern plane the pilot is constantly looking at the cockpit because the informations he needs are all there: it's not the same for a WW2 pilot...

Clickable cockpits are mandatory on a modern plane simulator, not so in a WW2 flight combat simulator.

[raaaid]

i really dont like clickable cocpits because i use mouse view but i often think hey with clickables i could pilot a 109 for real which would be good if i was raaaiding the lost ark

[lokitexas]

You sir are a drama queen, all you need to do is read the FAQ and you would see that 777 isn't going to make a WT. It takes the sim community seriously, it is their passion. You are talking out your bum.


And BTW I had every function needed mapped to HOTAS in Black Shark/A-10/ Clod/ FSX and any other game that used clickable pits. Why? I have track IR and having to keep my head still perfectly so I could hit that one damn littel switch was really annoying and took WAY more time than just mapping it once. To each is own, but lets not get dramatic any more shall we?

Man a little demanding are we? Honestly, you are lucky they are picking up the title to continue. And as far as having to EARN credit. Jason turned RoF from a failure to a gem. He has EARNED his Credit. If you would read his statements he says the engine will get an overhaul, maybe not DX11, but he is "getting it ready for WWII aircraft". Man you crusaders are the most dramatic Ive seen you in years, its entertaining to say the least.

Dramatic? You seem to like to throw that out quite a bit, dont you? Try to look up the meaning. I guess you took it from your word of the day calandar maybe?

Just because not everyone sucks on the manhood of a dev, like you, doesnt mean we dont get to discuss expectations.

I find 777 pretty weak. They can make a pretty plane, but not much else. They release fluff more than content. Weapon mods, pistols, streamers, scarf's, and other "fluff". Yet the career mode (still in beta btw), is almost as weak as CLoDs. Still no infantry units. Still deserted aerodromes. Still enemy planes spawn and despawn. Its hollow as hell.

Jason is a crybaby. Somebody points out a flaw, and he gets butthurt, closes the thread, and changes the posts, and cries you are trying to embaress him. Immature. The devs, for RoF on the other hand are good for what they to work with. They have made some awesome WWI birds. Not much beyond that, but hey, still good.

So just pointing out, that just because I find RoF a semi-ok game, doesnt mean I cant see where someone who thinks its great is coming from. Called an opinion. Learn to deal with people that have a different one from you.

[planespotter]

Oleg once posted comment once that they did a survey and only 3 percent of IL2 flyers wanted clickable cockpit as a 'must have'.

Who cares?

[SlipBall]

Oleg once posted comment once that they did a survey and only 3 percent of IL2 flyers wanted clickable cockpit as a 'must have'.

Who cares?

Well yes, I can believe such a result if worded that way...how bout if worded differently by Mr. Maddox, "would you like to be able to bind keys to cockpit functions"...results may have been different :)...even I dislike the mouse :-P

[TX-EcoDragon]

Fuuuuuu**#$&#*%

I guess it's CloD and DCS....or maybe the communities will get their heads on straight and realize that those of you that want to press E to start will have that option no matter what. You have everything mapped to your HOTAS and wanna use it that way? Great, I'm not gonna come along and tell you "Nope, sorry, you are out of luck" but many Combat gamers will post in these sorts of polls (and apparently they outnumber the high fidelity sim fans when it comes to the forum visitors anyway) and don't mind making their voices heard, even at the expense of the rest of the community. It's a shame.

[TomcatViP]

They should not waste valuable dev time on making the cockpit clickable. Buy some decent control devices.

And there it is again: buy this..; you shld own that... buy that expension you silly noob... Welcome back in RoF!

[rhinomonkey]

I think that when touch screens are more standard a clickable or touchable cockpit will be a must in flight sims of the future.

[David Hayward]

Does your PDP-8 not have enough USB ports?.

[VMF214_Jupp]

~S~ All,

What I can say, coming from the perspective of a "heavy user" of several sim-flight products over the fourteen years since I first installed MS's CFS is that I'd much prefer having clickable cockpits available than not.

One thing I've mentioned to several of my "veteran friends" is that clickable cockpits is perhaps the only thing missing from IL-2 1946 to make it a "near perfect flight simulator".

You see, back in the day we could import civilian General Aviation aircraft into CFS and hands on fiddle about with all kinds of avionics, thus learning about all kinds of things...

Coming from that background, as many, many of us do, not having the ability for that level of interaction between human, device, computer, and program is a shortcoming for all future flight simulator products if they do not have it included.

I believe that a "hard core realism niche" will not be satisfied with an arcadey, graphically superior, insanely accurate yet automated flight model, with uber intelligent ai game that has forgotten that the real magic is in the end-user experience of being fun, educational, and visceral at the same time.

There are simulators, there are games, and now hybrid simulator-games...

Just because it has an airplane, doesn't make it a f@*&1ng simulator. Period.

This I hope leads to a revival of a pure simulation over the internet cash cow scheme given enough time.

[ATAG_Doc]

Dude they don't know HOW to do it. That's just it. They don't know. What you will be offered if RoF with 1940's planes. That's it. Nothing else.

[SlipBall]

Dude they don't know HOW to do it. That's just it. They don't know. What you will be offered if RoF with 1940's planes. That's it. Nothing else.


I think that you may be right there Doctor, unless of course a new engine is developed.

[foxl]

What is the use of clickable cockpits if the historical accuarcy of the flight models is way off, better use the time to make the planes perform true to real life this is always the most important in a flight simulator if you ask me.
True weather effects, plane speeds, climb speeds etc. turbulence, temperature effects etc

The clickable cockpits in Clod is just a simplified start up anyways, there was much more to start up the bf-109 than just magnetos and fuel cock on and then press *i* on your keyboard. They need to go all the way if there should be any point in doing it, like the dcs p51 or accusim spitfire for fsx.

[MD_Titus]

quite liked the clickables, meant you didn't have to actually set a key to turn the fuel on, or other silly little things you only use once on take off.

[Slipstream2012]

Dude they don't know HOW to do it. That's just it. They don't know. What you will be offered if RoF with 1940's planes. That's it. Nothing else.

Doc, you are spot on mate!

[Skid]

I guess having clickable cockpits is a nice addition, but for me I would not really use it , as I prefer to map the main functions to my HOTAS. I personally do not want to be looking down and clicking away with my mouse whilst flying and in combat.

This.

I can't understand what the hubbub is about. Never used the clickable stuff. At all. Seems like programming resources could/should have been better used elsewhere...

[6BL Bird-Dog]

Whatever comes out for BoS I will be waiting to hear how it operates in all of it`s functionality from in game to Gui`s Mission builder & Multiplay after release before buying.

[Sven]

Dude they don't know HOW to do it. That's just it. They don't know. What you will be offered if RoF with 1940's planes. That's it. Nothing else.

I think you're right Doc,

What can they honestly plan to do in a year? it's almost 2013 and they plan on releasing in early 2014.
A lot will come from scratch, 3d objects and all that stuff. I don't think we'd have to expect much more then a working WWII sim with not nearly as much planes as in COD and with dated DX9 graphics.
Which is still cool, but a step down from CLOD.

[Herbs107]

If its supposed to be a simulator and classed as one it should have a clickable cockpit, it should be the norm for all sims, Lock-on has had it since day one, and that was released in 2003.

If its a game/arcade then I suppose it doesnt need to have a clickable cockpit, but then the sim addicts wouldnt buy it, and that includes me. So basically when this new game is released thats what it will be, just a game, not a sim.

[Slipstream2012]

For my taste I really prefer the ROF community to this one: those players are focused on the application's real target: being a WW1 combat simulator.


I like this community better because they are dogs.
On the most part they have been with the IL-2 scene for years, they know this game inside out, and there are many talented individuals here who will take their own time to test and document their findings to improve the sim.
Yes, they bitch, moan, fight each other, troll, but the majority do it because they want an accurate simulation and not just an arcade game.


I'm always been against clickable cockpits: it's good for FSX, is not for a combat sim... Even if it's a toggleable feature, as you can still manage the plane by keys, it's a loss of time and resources on something that's it's not really important.

Like the 3d modelling of cows, sheeps and chessboards.

Now 777 is taking the big part in this new project: it's like a dream to me.

How can clickable cockpits be good for FSX, but not a combat sim, when they are ultimately, both simulations.

Why would I want to have to set up 1000's of keys, which I'll forget, when I could interact with the cockpit "simulating" what the pilots actually did & learning a little about how a particular aircraft operated.

Talking of loss of resources you probably mean scarfs, pistols, headbands etc..

Its funny how IL2 Clod had all of it and more and never lost resources, just got sold out by 1c.

[Sokol1]

... there was much more to start up the bf-109 than just magnetos and fuel cock on and then press *i* on your keyboard

Errr, switch magnetos in CLoD worth only for movies, if you turn on fuel and hit "i" the engines start, so...

;)

Sokol1

[startrekmike]

~S~ All,

What I can say, coming from the perspective of a "heavy user" of several sim-flight products over the fourteen years since I first installed MS's CFS is that I'd much prefer having clickable cockpits available than not.

One thing I've mentioned to several of my "veteran friends" is that clickable cockpits is perhaps the only thing missing from IL-2 1946 to make it a "near perfect flight simulator".

You see, back in the day we could import civilian General Aviation aircraft into CFS and hands on fiddle about with all kinds of avionics, thus learning about all kinds of things...

Coming from that background, as many, many of us do, not having the ability for that level of interaction between human, device, computer, and program is a shortcoming for all future flight simulator products if they do not have it included.

I believe that a "hard core realism niche" will not be satisfied with an arcadey, graphically superior, insanely accurate yet automated flight model, with uber intelligent ai game that has forgotten that the real magic is in the end-user experience of being fun, educational, and visceral at the same time.

There are simulators, there are games, and now hybrid simulator-games...

Just because it has an airplane, doesn't make it a f@*&1ng simulator. Period.

This I hope leads to a revival of a pure simulation over the internet cash cow scheme given enough time.


First off, lets get rid of this sorry little myth that seems to keep popping up since the news broke yesterday, ROF is not a arcade sim, sorry, but it isn't and anyone who says it is clearly has not played it or even done a small amount of research. ROF may not have clickable cockpits (why would it?) but it offers fantastic and well researched flight models, gunnery and physics, best of all, it works perfectly out of the box and all it's features work without compromise.

I know many of you are angry because you feel that 777 has gobbled up any chance of you getting that mythical 'Battle for Moscow' that was promised and perhaps you even (rightly) feel that they dumped CloD just when it was starting to get good but let's face facts, CloD is dead and as much as I like playing it (yes, believe it or not, I as a lowly ROF "arcade" player can handle a clickable cockpit!) it never did live up to it's promises and now it never will.

We have not even seen a screenshot, we don't know what kind of tricks the now combined 777/1C have in store for us and we don't know what they are planning to do with the current ROF engine so howabout we not sit around and attack each other over petty things.

Even better, stop insisting that one sim is more "arcade" than another just because you are upset or unwilling to do the research.

If we keep acting like this than the problems and bickering that have come to define this community might pollute the discussion (and no, complaining for the sake of complaining is not discussion) about the new sim and prevent the dev's from seeing what we as a audience really want.

So, in closing, ROF is just as much a sim as CloD, the only difference is that ROF works as advertised and is still a active product, players can play both and should not feel like they have to pick sides in a petty bickering session and lastly, we flight simmers are a small community, perhaps we should try treating each other a little better and maybe things will go smoother.

[ATAG_Doc]

And for everyone that hates DF only....wants coops you are surly going to be even more disappointed with this.

I feel bad about the time and effort that went into il2bugtacker website. That was a great idea. But looks like all that was for nothing. I apologize.

[d.burnette]

I for one am just grateful, there is a new WWII sim on the horizon.
Flight simmers are a shrinking market, as is PC gaming.

I would also mention, this partnership was a merging of both teams, CLoD and ROF, under the same roof, working together. I have to think this would bode well for us.

[ATAG_Doc]

Well if it don't have a coop why waste your time? Right? I mean come on guys. I've been saying that since day one. No coop not a product we're interested in. Right??

[startrekmike]

Well if it don't have a coop why waste your time? Right? I mean come on guys. I've been saying that since day one. No coop not a product we're interested in. Right??

I have made Co-op missions in Rise of flight, they work fine, not sure why you are trying to get everyone to light torches and grab pitchforks over nothing.

Granted, not a lot of folks do co-op in ROF but that does not mean it can't be done.

Not sure where you are getting your info but it is wrong.

[Topo]

If its supposed to be a simulator and classed as one it should have a clickable cockpit, it should be the norm for all sims, Lock-on has had it since day one, and that was released in 2003.

English is not my native language, but if I understand correctly you are wrong if I remember correctly.

However, I also hope there are clickable cockpit, but the important thing is that the "serious" simulation has a future...

Saluti!

[ATAG_Doc]

I have made Co-op missions in Rise of flight, they work fine, not sure why you are trying to get everyone to light torches and grab pitchforks over nothing.

Granted, not a lot of folks do co-op in ROF but that does not mean it can't be done.

Not sure where you are getting your info but it is wrong.

You are so mistaken. You get RoF as the base and 1940s planes to air quake. CoD has more fences than all the objects in RoF. You and your RoF are a complete joke noob.

[lokitexas]

You are so mistaken. You get RoF as the base and 1940s planes to air quake. CoD has more fences than all the objects in RoF. You and your RoF are a complete joke noob.

Exactally.

Online in RoF is pretty much Call of Duty with WWI planes. Have you seen the online activity in RoF? Ever wonder why its so damn low? Because after you have shot down a few planes, respawned, and repeated that process 10 times in 15 mins, you realize it gets old, and boring after a while.

Point is that is all 777 has focused on. They couldnt care less for an in depth COOP or, a dynamic campaign. People have been asking for more "meat" in the career/campaign part and what do they get? Streamers, pistols, a few more planes, and colored scarves. All new toys with no meat of the game.

[startrekmike]

You are so mistaken. You get RoF as the base and 1940s planes to air quake. CoD has more fences than all the objects in RoF. You and your RoF are a complete joke noob.


I see that you are unable to listen to reason, that is fine, if you want to feel like a big boy online that is your business.

Perhaps I expected too much from this community.

[GOZR]

Well maybe getting the Sim out with out clickable pits at first to please everyone and making the sales than as addon making a clickable pits wit a moderate fee could please many.. teh point is that making clickable pits will hurt no one.. people who are satisfied with out will have a blast and people that are more into hard core Sim will have a small fee as fieldmod within RoF.. this will generate revenue and please a lot of Aviation lovers are we are all.

[Lixma]

CoD has more fences than all the objects in RoF.

How's that for an epitaph.

[startrekmike]

Exactally.

Online in RoF is pretty much Call of Duty with WWI planes. Have you seen the online activity in RoF? Ever wonder why its so damn low? Because after you have shot down a few planes, respawned, and repeated that process 10 times in 15 mins, you realize it gets old, and boring after a while.

Point is that is all 777 has focused on. They couldnt care less for an in depth COOP or, a dynamic campaign. People have been asking for more "meat" in the career/campaign part and what do they get? Streamers, pistols, a few more planes, and colored scarves. All new toys with no meat of the game.

ROF is as deep as you want it to be, while I admit that many missions are pretty stale, that is more to do with mission designers and not so much the sim itself.

I have run plenty of interesting and fun co-ops with my friends and I never felt that it was limited in any way, nor do I feel that it is "air-quake", I mean, no more than CloD is oftentimes.

The fact is that we should not be bickering about something that is not even fully explained yet, we have no idea what this new sim will be and to act like it will just be ROF with a WWII coat of paint is both naive and foolish.

Sorry, but you and your friend above are acting like children and you need to stop and really think about what you are saying as opposed to just parroting others who also don't have a clear idea of what ROF is.

There is no need for this petty bickering, ROF is just as much a sim as CloD and the only real difference is that ROF does not have clickable cockpits, that is not a issue in ROF as there would be little to be gained by having it as a feature, you see, I have faith that this new product will be something cool and I am adult enough to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more.

The funny thing about this whole thing is that CloD is very limited, both by it's bugs (the menu system is still a mess and barely functional) and it's lack of any sort of actual single player content out of the box that is worth anything, at least ROF has a not only four available campaigns but also a career mode that spans many years.

I mean, we can bicker and fight over who plays the best sim but in the end, you are not going to find a better WWI sim than ROF and you are not going to find a better WWII sim than CloD (at least in terms of technical aspirations) but while ROF is still alive and growing, CloD might as well have been called a stillbirth that only survives because there is simply nothing better out there.

Don't give me this air-quake crap, ROF is as deep as YOU choose to make it, you can play any sim (even CloD) as air-quake so that insult means nothing.

Lastly, I agree that Clod has better looking terrain but at what cost? I mean, the engine requires a pretty hefty GPU to even run at some level of detail due to it's horrible optimization and frankly, who cares if there are more fences in Clod than there are in ROF, who cares about ground objects that serve no purpose other than window dressing that drag your CPU and GPU needs into unreasonable territory.

ROF is not better than CloD but at the same token, CLoD is not better than ROF, it is apples and oranges at this point and until we know more, perhaps we should just try to wait and see what happens together as opposed to just complaining and trying to be internet tough guys, sound good?

[Hooves]

Dramatic? You seem to like to throw that out quite a bit, dont you? Try to look up the meaning. I guess you took it from your word of the day calandar maybe?

Just because not everyone sucks on the manhood of a dev, like you, doesnt mean we dont get to discuss expectations.

I find 777 pretty weak. They can make a pretty plane, but not much else. They release fluff more than content. Weapon mods, pistols, streamers, scarf's, and other "fluff". Yet the career mode (still in beta btw), is almost as weak as CLoDs. Still no infantry units. Still deserted aerodromes. Still enemy planes spawn and despawn. Its hollow as hell.

Jason is a crybaby. Somebody points out a flaw, and he gets butthurt, closes the thread, and changes the posts, and cries you are trying to embaress him. Immature. The devs, for RoF on the other hand are good for what they to work with. They have made some awesome WWI birds. Not much beyond that, but hey, still good.

So just pointing out, that just because I find RoF a semi-ok game, doesnt mean I cant see where someone who thinks its great is coming from. Called an opinion. Learn to deal with people that have a different one from you.

Opinions? These sound like our right attacks. Jason is a Cry baby? Jason is the reason Il2 can have a home.

Discussing expectations is one thing but hanging on the shriveld loins of dead game is another.

The DEVS of RoF were tasked to make a WWI game, yup they've done it pretty well, in fact everything they they put in the game works. However I cant say that for your beloved CloD, See through clouds, trees with no other purpose than to look at.

And I don't know about you but I have seen lots of infantry firing flak guns up at me in RoF. I guess you are just misinformed on that one.


Lets not forget that RoF is a WWI AIR COMBAT SIM. Not an infantry simulator, and while planes did begin to carry bombs ground attack was not a very central player. But alas, I have been tasked to go on missions in RoF that are VERY similar to those in CloD, IE: kill that convoy, bomb that rail yard, and shoot down the enemy bombers.

Btw those ? "Pretty planes" have an entire physics engine keeping them aloft. I mean you do know that the WWII birds are going to get just as much TLC right?

But I guess you know how the finished product will be because you are a super secret squirrel with access to the latest updated products from 777......... oh wait.

Your just a punk throwing around Sexual orientation innuendo, and calling a successful (note Lutheir WAS NOT ultimately successful) dev/businessman Jason a Cry baby. Sounds like you are just a sad kid that got his ball taken away. Well I guess Ill be happy not to see you on the court in the new game.

Opinions are great when they aren't masked by a dead games fan boy crusade to ruin a living games success.

[satchenko]

S!

Can live without clickable cockpit if everything else is done well.

+1

[Codex]

ROF is as deep as you want it to be, while I admit that many missions are pretty stale, that is more to do with mission designers and not so much the sim itself.

I have run plenty of interesting and fun co-ops with my friends and I never felt that it was limited in any way, nor do I feel that it is "air-quake", I mean, no more than CloD is oftentimes.

The fact is that we should not be bickering about something that is not even fully explained yet, we have no idea what this new sim will be and to act like it will just be ROF with a WWII coat of paint is both naive and foolish.

Sorry, but you and your friend above are acting like children and you need to stop and really think about what you are saying as opposed to just parroting others who also don't have a clear idea of what ROF is.

There is no need for this petty bickering, ROF is just as much a sim as CloD and the only real difference is that ROF does not have clickable cockpits, that is not a issue in ROF as there would be little to be gained by having it as a feature, you see, I have faith that this new product will be something cool and I am adult enough to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more.

The funny thing about this whole thing is that CloD is very limited, both by it's bugs (the menu system is still a mess and barely functional) and it's lack of any sort of actual single player content out of the box that is worth anything, at least ROF has a not only four available campaigns but also a career mode that spans many years.

I mean, we can bicker and fight over who plays the best sim but in the end, you are not going to find a better WWI sim than ROF and you are not going to find a better WWII sim than CloD (at least in terms of technical aspirations) but while ROF is still alive and growing, CloD might as well have been called a stillbirth that only survives because there is simply nothing better out there.

Don't give me this air-quake crap, ROF is as deep as YOU choose to make it, you can play any sim (even CloD) as air-quake so that insult means nothing.

Lastly, I agree that Clod has better looking terrain but at what cost? I mean, the engine requires a pretty hefty GPU to even run at some level of detail due to it's horrible optimization and frankly, who cares if there are more fences in Clod than there are in ROF, who cares about ground objects that serve no purpose other than window dressing that drag your CPU and GPU needs into unreasonable territory.

ROF is not better than CloD but at the same token, CLoD is not better than ROF, it is apples and oranges at this point and until we know more, perhaps we should just try to wait and see what happens together as opposed to just complaining and trying to be internet tough guys, sound good?

+1

[foxl]

If its supposed to be a simulator and classed as one it should have a clickable cockpit, it should be the norm for all sims, Lock-on has had it since day one, and that was released in 2003.

If its a game/arcade then I suppose it doesnt need to have a clickable cockpit, but then the sim addicts wouldnt buy it, and that includes me. So basically when this new game is released thats what it will be, just a game, not a sim.

Lock On did not have clickable cockpits since day one, there was no clickable cockpits until DCS black shark, a10, and mustang. And the new f15 in flaming cliffs 3 does not have clickable cockpits as well.

I agree its a very nice thing to have, but in CLOD its just simplified anyways, compare the CLOD spitfire startup with the FSX Accusim Spitfire startup and you will see.

And if you are a sim addict you would rather click a few switches that have real life performance in the planes, its automaticly a sim just because you can flick a switch?

[Skoshi Tiger]

Before Clickable cockpits came into COD I couldn't really be bothered with them. I have my HOTAS and was happy.

Since they were intrroduced into COD I have found them useful for various seldom used functions.

The one thing I find very useful is being able to hover the mouse pointer over a hard to read instrument and get shown a reading. Hopefully that will still be in BoS.

[bzc3lk]

rof is as deep as you want it to be, while i admit that many missions are pretty stale, that is more to do with mission designers and not so much the sim itself.

I have run plenty of interesting and fun co-ops with my friends and i never felt that it was limited in any way, nor do i feel that it is "air-quake", i mean, no more than clod is oftentimes.

The fact is that we should not be bickering about something that is not even fully explained yet, we have no idea what this new sim will be and to act like it will just be rof with a wwii coat of paint is both naive and foolish.

Sorry, but you and your friend above are acting like children and you need to stop and really think about what you are saying as opposed to just parroting others who also don't have a clear idea of what rof is.

There is no need for this petty bickering, rof is just as much a sim as clod and the only real difference is that rof does not have clickable cockpits, that is not a issue in rof as there would be little to be gained by having it as a feature, you see, i have faith that this new product will be something cool and i am adult enough to give them the benefit of the doubt until i know more.

The funny thing about this whole thing is that clod is very limited, both by it's bugs (the menu system is still a mess and barely functional) and it's lack of any sort of actual single player content out of the box that is worth anything, at least rof has a not only four available campaigns but also a career mode that spans many years.

I mean, we can bicker and fight over who plays the best sim but in the end, you are not going to find a better wwi sim than rof and you are not going to find a better wwii sim than clod (at least in terms of technical aspirations) but while rof is still alive and growing, clod might as well have been called a stillbirth that only survives because there is simply nothing better out there.

Don't give me this air-quake crap, rof is as deep as you choose to make it, you can play any sim (even clod) as air-quake so that insult means nothing.

Lastly, i agree that clod has better looking terrain but at what cost? I mean, the engine requires a pretty hefty gpu to even run at some level of detail due to it's horrible optimization and frankly, who cares if there are more fences in clod than there are in rof, who cares about ground objects that serve no purpose other than window dressing that drag your cpu and gpu needs into unreasonable territory.

Rof is not better than clod but at the same token, clod is not better than rof, it is apples and oranges at this point and until we know more, perhaps we should just try to wait and see what happens together as opposed to just complaining and trying to be internet tough guys, sound good?


spot on ;)

[bzc3lk]

Opinions? These sound like our right attacks. Jason is a Cry baby? Jason is the reason Il2 can have a home.

Discussing expectations is one thing but hanging on the shriveld loins of dead game is another.

The DEVS of RoF were tasked to make a WWI game, yup they've done it pretty well, in fact everything they they put in the game works. However I cant say that for your beloved CloD, See through clouds, trees with no other purpose than to look at.

And I don't know about you but I have seen lots of infantry firing flak guns up at me in RoF. I guess you are just misinformed on that one.


Lets not forget that RoF is a WWI AIR COMBAT SIM. Not an infantry simulator, and while planes did begin to carry bombs ground attack was not a very central player. But alas, I have been tasked to go on missions in RoF that are VERY similar to those in CloD, IE: kill that convoy, bomb that rail yard, and shoot down the enemy bombers.

Btw those ? "Pretty planes" have an entire physics engine keeping them aloft. I mean you do know that the WWII birds are going to get just as much TLC right?

But I guess you know how the finished product will be because you are a super secret squirrel with access to the latest updated products from 777......... oh wait.

Your just a punk throwing around Sexual orientation innuendo, and calling a successful (note Lutheir WAS NOT ultimately successful) dev/businessman Jason a Cry baby. Sounds like you are just a sad kid that got his ball taken away. Well I guess Ill be happy not to see you on the court in the new game.

Opinions are great when they aren't masked by a dead games fan boy crusade to ruin a living games success.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/bzc3lk/cat-boom-headshot-WLMeMH.jpg

SPOT ON ;)

[FS~Phat]

Clickable cockpits sounds nice in theory, just like in FSX... but excuse me while I go puke... :) It was too fiddly for me and I'd rather use my HOTAS, and other external controllers & touch screens than trying to fly, watch for enemy, dogfight and click the cockpit... sorry it just doesnt make sense... especially in a dogfight simulator. FSX barely got away with making it usable and DCS series... well..

If you like it, more power to you, but I will be happy using my X52 Pro's numerous programmable features with a G13 gaming keypad and iPad touch screen. :)

BTW you do know that Jason said 777 is working on the next iteration of their graphics engine to bring it up to DX11 and 64bit OS. :)

More here on the graphics engine
http://www.cleared-to-engage.com/category/777-studios-2/

Extract:
"It’s pre-mature to talk about what’s next, but we will say that the ROF Engine (Digital Nature Engine) is being groomed for bigger and better things. What that means will be announced sometime in the future. We want to be the best sim developer in the world, even if it kills us.


(Jason Williams – President of 777 Studios)

Yes, we are thinking of what will be the next step. We have done evolutionary development with our Digital Nature Engine. This laid the basis for the project architecture. Our programmers are already making plans to use DX11 to create graphics and the possibility of 64-bit systems using large amounts of memory. This course will give us the opportunity to make the next technological step, and even more surprising graphics and depth of physical modeling.



It would be interesting to create a project of another era, the Battle of the Pacific Ocean, huge aircraft carriers, hundreds of people performing their work on the deck to ensure your take-off or landing, night operations P-61, flying boats patrolling coastal territories and rescuing crews from wrecked planes, and perhaps give you opportunity to manage other military equipment.


(Albert Zhiltzov – Producer of Rise of Flight)"

[6S.Manu]

Clickable cockpits sounds nice in theory, just like in FSX... but excuse me while I go puke... :) It was too fiddly for me and I'd rather use my HOTAS, and other external controllers & touch screens than trying to fly, watch for enemy, dogfight and click the cockpit... sorry it just doesnt make sense... especially in a dogfight simulator. FSX barely got away with making it usable and DCS series... well..

If you like it, more power to you, but I will be happy using my X52 Pro's numerous programmable features with a G13 gaming keypad and iPad touch screen. :)

BTW you do know that Jason said 777 is working on the next iteration of their graphics engine to bring it up to DX11 and 64bit OS. :)

More here on the graphics engine
http://www.cleared-to-engage.com/category/777-studios-2/

Extract:
"It’s pre-mature to talk about what’s next, but we will say that the ROF Engine (Digital Nature Engine) is being groomed for bigger and better things. What that means will be announced sometime in the future. We want to be the best sim developer in the world, even if it kills us.


(Jason Williams – President of 777 Studios)

Yes, we are thinking of what will be the next step. We have done evolutionary development with our Digital Nature Engine. This laid the basis for the project architecture. Our programmers are already making plans to use DX11 to create graphics and the possibility of 64-bit systems using large amounts of memory. This course will give us the opportunity to make the next technological step, and even more surprising graphics and depth of physical modeling.



It would be interesting to create a project of another era, the Battle of the Pacific Ocean, huge aircraft carriers, hundreds of people performing their work on the deck to ensure your take-off or landing, night operations P-61, flying boats patrolling coastal territories and rescuing crews from wrecked planes, and perhaps give you opportunity to manage other military equipment.


(Albert Zhiltzov – Producer of Rise of Flight)"

Thanks Phat, it's nice to find some good sense in this board.

[Gourmand]

it's a back return
it was one of the greatest feature...


too bad

[Davy TASB]

Brilliant reply by Hooves to these tiresome ROF hating menchild on this forum.

Cant believe the level of immaturity from some of these jokers. The penny hasn't yet dropped with some of these people that it is the Rise of Flight management team that will help save their sim and that the RoF community also helped by supporting the "saviours of IL2" with hard cash.
Without that support and cash there would have been no more development of RoF AND there would be no Battle Of Stalingrad in the works.

[taildraggernut]

Wow.....the tiresome COD hating menchildren really are on their moral high horses now.

[Davy TASB]

Wow.....the tiresome COD hating menchildren really are on their moral high horses now.

I dont hate IL2 in any way or form but thank you for proving my point :grin:

[taildraggernut]

I dont hate IL2 in any way or form but thank you for proving my point :grin:

You had a point?

All I see is the same kinds of people who whined about COD before and after release getting somewhat irked they are having to endure some of their own medicine, and at the same time completely forgetting that 1c are still very much involved in this new venture.

[bAlliStiK]

Don't you like clickable cockpit? Don't touch it!

Sadly, il2 will definitely die when this community desist in claiming the deserved open sourcing of COD.

If they want to make a ROF of WW2 called IL2, go forward but we want Oleg's dream made ​​reality.

RELEASE COD'S CODE NOW! LONG LIVE TO IL2!

[FS~Phat]

Whether its deserved or not, its very unlikely that CLOD will ever be open sourced as a great many of its models and content are 1C intellectual property and some of it will be migrated to the 777 engine.

Not to mention they wont want anything out that could hinder the successful take-up of BoM.

So your living a pipe dream if you think CLOD will become open source in the next 10 years! Thats the reality of intellectual property law and the rules of the business jungle.. Sorry to disappoint.

[JG52Krupi]

I dont hate IL2 in any way or form but thank you for proving my point :grin:

The rampant "fanboism" is clear on both sides so yeah don't climb on the horses back as you could fall off!

Certainly I have seen a lot of rof fanboys attacking Cod and it turned out some hadnt even played the game so I wouldnt crow too loudly!

[Birdflu]

ROF is as deep as you want it to be, while I admit that many missions are pretty stale, that is more to do with mission designers and not so much the sim itself.

I have run plenty of interesting and fun co-ops with my friends and I never felt that it was limited in any way, nor do I feel that it is "air-quake", I mean, no more than CloD is oftentimes.

The fact is that we should not be bickering about something that is not even fully explained yet, we have no idea what this new sim will be and to act like it will just be ROF with a WWII coat of paint is both naive and foolish.

Sorry, but you and your friend above are acting like children and you need to stop and really think about what you are saying as opposed to just parroting others who also don't have a clear idea of what ROF is.

There is no need for this petty bickering, ROF is just as much a sim as CloD and the only real difference is that ROF does not have clickable cockpits, that is not a issue in ROF as there would be little to be gained by having it as a feature, you see, I have faith that this new product will be something cool and I am adult enough to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more.

The funny thing about this whole thing is that CloD is very limited, both by it's bugs (the menu system is still a mess and barely functional) and it's lack of any sort of actual single player content out of the box that is worth anything, at least ROF has a not only four available campaigns but also a career mode that spans many years.

I mean, we can bicker and fight over who plays the best sim but in the end, you are not going to find a better WWI sim than ROF and you are not going to find a better WWII sim than CloD (at least in terms of technical aspirations) but while ROF is still alive and growing, CloD might as well have been called a stillbirth that only survives because there is simply nothing better out there.

Don't give me this air-quake crap, ROF is as deep as YOU choose to make it, you can play any sim (even CloD) as air-quake so that insult means nothing.

Lastly, I agree that Clod has better looking terrain but at what cost? I mean, the engine requires a pretty hefty GPU to even run at some level of detail due to it's horrible optimization and frankly, who cares if there are more fences in Clod than there are in ROF, who cares about ground objects that serve no purpose other than window dressing that drag your CPU and GPU needs into unreasonable territory.

ROF is not better than CloD but at the same token, CLoD is not better than ROF, it is apples and oranges at this point and until we know more, perhaps we should just try to wait and see what happens together as opposed to just complaining and trying to be internet tough guys, sound good?

+1

[il_corleone]

ROF is as deep as you want it to be, while I admit that many missions are pretty stale, that is more to do with mission designers and not so much the sim itself.

I have run plenty of interesting and fun co-ops with my friends and I never felt that it was limited in any way, nor do I feel that it is "air-quake", I mean, no more than CloD is oftentimes.

The fact is that we should not be bickering about something that is not even fully explained yet, we have no idea what this new sim will be and to act like it will just be ROF with a WWII coat of paint is both naive and foolish.

Sorry, but you and your friend above are acting like children and you need to stop and really think about what you are saying as opposed to just parroting others who also don't have a clear idea of what ROF is.

There is no need for this petty bickering, ROF is just as much a sim as CloD and the only real difference is that ROF does not have clickable cockpits, that is not a issue in ROF as there would be little to be gained by having it as a feature, you see, I have faith that this new product will be something cool and I am adult enough to give them the benefit of the doubt until I know more.

The funny thing about this whole thing is that CloD is very limited, both by it's bugs (the menu system is still a mess and barely functional) and it's lack of any sort of actual single player content out of the box that is worth anything, at least ROF has a not only four available campaigns but also a career mode that spans many years.

I mean, we can bicker and fight over who plays the best sim but in the end, you are not going to find a better WWI sim than ROF and you are not going to find a better WWII sim than CloD (at least in terms of technical aspirations) but while ROF is still alive and growing, CloD might as well have been called a stillbirth that only survives because there is simply nothing better out there.

Don't give me this air-quake crap, ROF is as deep as YOU choose to make it, you can play any sim (even CloD) as air-quake so that insult means nothing.

Lastly, I agree that Clod has better looking terrain but at what cost? I mean, the engine requires a pretty hefty GPU to even run at some level of detail due to it's horrible optimization and frankly, who cares if there are more fences in Clod than there are in ROF, who cares about ground objects that serve no purpose other than window dressing that drag your CPU and GPU needs into unreasonable territory.

ROF is not better than CloD but at the same token, CLoD is not better than ROF, it is apples and oranges at this point and until we know more, perhaps we should just try to wait and see what happens together as opposed to just complaining and trying to be internet tough guys, sound good?

Rof is the best ww1 sim becose there is no more ww1 sim since 2000 i remember, and Clod has a potential engine , if fixed, could be better than any that we saw before. you are rigth the 2 are the best at its theatre, but the resource consumption its for one reason, more objects, detail and etc.

Il2 cliffs of dover its a bit foward in terms of technology, but its a back on terms of optimization, and the resource consumption its a bit tough but be reasonable.

+1 for your response.

The best 2 Sims out there from Prop aircraft.

[lokitexas]

The best 2 Sims out there from Prop aircraft.

The only 2 modern prop sims out there at the moment. Not like anyone has a choice.

Thats why people will accept anything...its that or go back to flying Over Flanders Fields, and IL246, of which both have dynamic campaigns.

If there was a bigger market, and more compitition both wouldnt be so hollow.

[LukeFF]

Clod has a potential engine , if fixed

That's a huge "if."

[Slipstream2012]

The rampant "fanboism" is clear on both sides so yeah don't climb on the horses back as you could fall off!

Certainly I have seen a lot of rof fanboys attacking Cod and it turned out some hadnt even played the game so I wouldnt crow too loudly!

Yes its certainly clear that as soon as BOS was announced, all the fanboys come here to wind the Clod fanboys up, and accounts that have been dormant here for ages are coming back to life, just so their users and try and prove their point.

Just remember, don't get too smart. Until we see something from 777, anything can happen. Its early days.