one good aspect off all this, 1c kept the CoD engine and did not transfer it to RoF

[zapatista]

the best solution for this merger or cooperative agreement would have been if a management team from 777 was put in charge of completing the BoM sequel, and then develop other sequels in that line (with the same or other business model). but since that is not happening, one good aspect of this "worst of all worst scenarios " is that 1c kept the CoD game and gfx engine and did not transfer it to RoF. most likely it will just be moth balled, never to see the light of day again.

however bad the news is that we will end up with a RoF game engine and sales model for the next "RoF ww2 sim marketed as il2-sturmovik", is that there is some slim line of hope that some other team could proceed forward with the current CoD engine

maybe luthier could buy it or have a cooperative agreement with 1c to develop his korea era sim with it ? whomever would proceed with it could not use the il2 sturmovik name anymore, the other project has the rights to that but the name matters little if the end product based on the current CoD engine is good

its idle hope this early, but in a way there is a good side to 777 not getting full control over that code (since they would strip it and dumb it down). no doubt they will get the 3d models of the planes and objects designed so far by the BoN (? and CoD) teams, but game code itself they dont seem to be receiving

[SlipBall]

Certainly many questions, & unknowns...the big thing for me is realism level, no CEM no participate :-P

[ATAG_Bliss]

Sounds like its time to mod Clod ;)

[d.burnette]

Yes but, has there been official statement as to what has happened with the CLoD code?
Just because they are not using it, does not necessarily mean they do not have the rights to it?
Just speculating here...

[theOden]

..
maybe luthier could buy it ..

What's stopping you from making your life best investment?
Go ahead, buy the rights and make it glow as much as you've been promoting it the last 20 minutes?
Should be an easy walk by the sound of it.

[Ailantd]

An engine as complicated like CoD one is almost nothing without the people who built it. I understand 777 decision to go with their engine. For them is not only a very good deal, probably also the only feasible. They would be lost working with another people engine that is no more working there. Of course for us the deal is not as good.

[Borsch]

Kept the engine? Nobody apart from MG would work on it, you'd be crazy to think otherwise!

Several teams of programs were fired during the course of making it and it's still bugged, and it 's still a pandora's box where you change one thing and ten other things go wrong.

How did you honestly think new team would even begin looking at gigabytes of unknown code with loads of bugs? Come on.:rolleyes:

[SlipBall]

If they would let us buy it, I would kick in 50-60 bucks, X 1,000,000,000. pilots, then turn the modders loose on it.:-P

[klem]

Kept the engine? Nobody apart from MG would work on it, you'd be crazy to think otherwise!

Several teams of programs were fired during the course of making it and it's still bugged, and it 's still a pandora's box where you change one thing and ten other things go wrong.

How did you honestly think new team would even begin looking at gigabytes of unknown code with loads of bugs? Come on.:rolleyes:

I suspect this is why it failed. Not a shortage of money per se but a loss of the expertise necessary to deliver it and deliver within budget. It may be a tangled mess by now.

[LukeFF]

If they would let us buy it, I would kick in 50-60 bucks, X 1,000,000,000. pilots, then turn the modders loose on it.:-P

I wouldn't throw a dime at it and am glad I never did.

[joker68]

As an old ROF player, I'm glad that 777 took over the development. Not only I think that ROF engine is far superior to simulating aircraft behavior than CLOD's, I also believe that 777 Studios has what is needed to put out an outstanding sim, a truly "better IL2".

I feel ripped for the money invested in CLOD. It never worked, and I was also skeptical about the sequel (BOM) that would "correct it". Time to move on: remove CLOD from hdd, and wait for a brand new WW2 sim.
Well, since ROF launched, I haven't really played WW2 sims anymore. Now I can go back.

Way to go, 777!!
Cya on http://forum.il2sturmovik.net
Cheers

[Skoshi Tiger]

I wouldn't throw a dime at it and am glad I never did.

You mean you've racked up 300 odd posts AND you've never bought the game? Such vindictiveness for so little out lay! Did you work for a competitor? ;)

[LukeFF]

You mean you've racked up 300 odd posts AND you've never bought the game? Such vindictiveness for so little out lay! Did you work for a competitor? ;)

No, but I saw the problems the game was having here once it was released. Coupled with the lack of an engaging single-player mode, I lost interest and decided to not buy it.

[Robotic Pope]

No, but I saw the problems the game was having here once it was released. Coupled with the lack of an engaging single-player mode, I lost interest and decided to not buy it.

Same thing here and look at my post count lol ;)

[theOden]

Despite what Skoshi and others might think the postcount is not filtered to posts solely delivered into Dover section of this forum but rather connected to the account that can freely move into sections such as 1946.

[Slipstream2012]

As an old ROF player, I'm glad that 777 took over the development. Not only I think that ROF engine is far superior to simulating aircraft behavior than CLOD's, I also believe that 777 Studios has what is needed to put out an outstanding sim, a truly "better IL2".


Haha, you got your right name at-least, but that's about all.
ROF's engine does what it has to and fairly well, Clods engine can manage everything it has to simulation wise, plus it can be used for many many other things, like moving a great number of objects (tanks, infantry etc) around the virtual battlefield in real time. But thats only the tip of the iceberg.

The truth of the matter is, that the average simmer has never seen, or explored the vast variety of things that can be achieved with the scripting engine in Clod and never will, they just look at the things like the unfinished damage modelling, AA, and TAB menu for AI aircraft or try to run every setting maxed with a mid range system, 1000+ objects, or with a ton of unneeded processes in the background.

As for the aircraft, have you ever noticed how the electrical/fuels systems are modeled, or the light dynamically shines from cracks in the perspex when its been hit?


I feel ripped for the money invested in CLOD. It never worked, and I was also skeptical about the sequel (BOM) that would "correct it". Time to move on: remove CLOD from hdd, and wait for a brand new WW2 sim.
Well, since ROF launched, I haven't really played WW2 sims anymore. Now I can go back.


Do you feel ripped when you go out and blow around the amount of cash that you spent on Clod drinking beer? Just to piss it all down the toilet, then wake up in the morning with a cracking headache & feeling like a heap of crap?
Sure it ran damn crappy for most of us & had problems when it was first released but it improved and now its very playable.

I have close to 1000 logged on it, most online, and I'm still running an AMD Athlon x2 215 dual core, clocking at 2.7, and a AMD 5850 with 4gb ram. All but the building settings are at "low" everything else is medium to high and I rarely get a stutter. I've had many hours on enjoyment out of it and continue to do so, needless to say, for all its flaws and all of its beauty, its not leaving my hdd anytime soon.

[ems9]

Kept the engine? Nobody apart from MG would work on it, you'd be crazy to think otherwise!

Several teams of programs were fired during the course of making it and it's still bugged, and it 's still a pandora's box where you change one thing and ten other things go wrong.

How did you honestly think new team would even begin looking at gigabytes of unknown code with loads of bugs? Come on.:rolleyes:

Don't talk about stuff you don't even wonder is like. (Sorry to say that but your comment just reveals you don't have any clue of what is programming neither what is a game engine).

It's simply like that! You touch something, and something else at the other corner is affected.Then you just need to re adjust and fix. You just need resources, time and money to fix it. And that's it.

Professional programmers like MD team must have the code documented. Even if you build a script after 100 lines of code you don't remember what you scripted.

Could we just crowd funding some parts of the MD team and get some final tools out like SDKs? After that everyone could start to work on it for free.

[Hooves]

Don't talk about stuff you don't even wonder is like. (Sorry to say that but your comment just reveals you don't have any clue of what is programming neither what is a game engine).

It's simply like that! You touch something, and something else at the other corner is affected.Then you just need to re adjust and fix. You just need resources, time and money to fix it. And that's it.

Professional programmers like MD team must have the code documented. Even if you build a script after 100 lines of code you don't remember what you scripted.

Could we just crowd funding some parts of the MD team and get some final tools out like SDKs? After that everyone could start to work on it for free.



LOLOLOLOL They couldn't even fix THEIR OWN CODE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yes they must be total morons but YOU can fix it! YOU can do what they could not! GO FORTH and conquer!!!!!!

[6S.Manu]

As an old ROF player, I'm glad that 777 took over the development. Not only I think that ROF engine is far superior to simulating aircraft behavior than CLOD's, I also believe that 777 Studios has what is needed to put out an outstanding sim, a truly "better IL2".

I feel ripped for the money invested in CLOD. It never worked, and I was also skeptical about the sequel (BOM) that would "correct it". Time to move on: remove CLOD from hdd, and wait for a brand new WW2 sim.
Well, since ROF launched, I haven't really played WW2 sims anymore. Now I can go back.

Way to go, 777!!
Cya on http://forum.il2sturmovik.net
Cheers
Can I remove it from my Steam game list too? My eyes are hurting evertime I read that name.

[adonys]

can we have now the code? I'm sure we'll be able to fix by ourselves what your incompetence couldn't.

[il_corleone]

the engine is far better than the rof one, whit the code and the modders, the bugs will last 1 month,and i dont talk what the moders can bring too later than that, and i have rof too, since 2010. so i know what i am talking about.

[Lurker_71]

CloD engine is worthless, which is why its owner threw it away. 777's getting involved in making a WW2 sim is the best thing that happened for the sim community for a long time. Shame on MG for blocking the genre's progress for so long. At least they are out of business, and deservedly so. Good days ahead.

[Skoshi Tiger]

CloD engine is worthless, which is why its owner threw it away. 777's getting involved in making a WW2 sim is the best thing that happened for the sim community for a long time. Shame on MG for blocking the genre's progress for so long. At least they are out of business, and deservedly so. Good days ahead.

What do you mean worthless? On steam it is worth $49.95 or if you wait till it comes on special you can get it for $9 and change! At either price it's a Bargain!

WHat you probably meant is that we won't see any more development in this sim. Which is sad really coz at the moment it is without peers!

Cheers!

[Stefem]

CloD engine is worthless, which is why its owner threw it away. 777's getting involved in making a WW2 sim is the best thing that happened for the sim community for a long time. Shame on MG for blocking the genre's progress for so long. At least they are out of business, and deservedly so. Good days ahead.

Wow, just another expert on software development and, as he said "Shame on MG for blocking the genre's progress for so long" even on the sim genere...

[jctrnacty]

Can anyone recommend Luthier to use kickstarter funding that could help him to get money to buy out the source code?

[arthursmedley]

whit the code and the modders, the bugs will last 1 month,and i dont talk what the moders can bring too later than that,

i know what i am talking about.



:grin::grin::grin:

[SlipBall]

:grin::grin::grin:


He better know

[Stefem]

Can anyone recommend Luthier to use kickstarter funding that could help him to get money to buy out the source code?

Kickstarter could be a solution as it helps developers get rid of publisher interference.

[Lurker_71]

Wow, just another expert on software development and, as he said "Shame on MG for blocking the genre's progress for so long" even on the sim genere...

Alas! If only Luthier had access to you with your masterly skills and deep understanding of the software development process :)

And, if you're having trouble understanding what I mean by their "blocking the genre's progress," here is a tip: MG's presence in the WW2 sim segment with their formidable repute scared off potential competitors. Now that it is obvious MG was not up to the task, chances are we will be seeing several developers showing up to fill the void (777 being one obviously and perhaps Eagle Dynamics). And that is why I am and you too should be happy that MG is out of the way, that is if you're a WW2 sim fan. They wasted 6 years for the genre. That's how I see it.

[Fjordmonkey]

can we have now the code? I'm sure we'll be able to fix by ourselves what your incompetence couldn't.

I'm fairly sure this has been answered a few times by now...

[Robert]

Alas! If only Luthier had access to you with your masterly skills and deep understanding of the software development process :)

And, if you're having trouble understanding what I mean by their "blocking the genre's progress," here is a tip: MG's presence in the WW2 sim segment with their formidable repute scared off potential competitors. Now that it is obvious MG was not up to the task, chances are we will be seeing several developers showing up to fill the void (777 being one obviously and perhaps Eagle Dynamics). And that is why I am and you too should be happy that MG is out of the way, that is if you're a WW2 sim fan. They wasted 6 years for the genre. That's how I see it.

If the competition was too scared because of MG's reputation, then they really don't belong in the CFS market. Rowan's original FS offering was good enough to ensure BoB:WoV. It was implimented poorly and with the efforts of the community has become a nice sim with AI that so far hasn't been matched in a WW2 CFS. Gaigin attempted twice with console versions of games. Micro Soft quit on CFSs because of their less than stellar version of CFSIII. Heck, they dumbed down Flight for god knows why. Who knows if they'll make another ever ahain. Sorry, and not to sound like a jerk, but your reasoning for a WW2CFS drought sounds like more of a cop out than anything.

[WTE_Galway]

If the competition was too scared because of MG's reputation, then they really don't belong in the CFS market. Rowan's original FS offering was good enough to ensure BoB:WoV. It was implimented poorly and with the efforts of the community has become a nice sim with AI that so far hasn't been matched in a WW2 CFS. Gaigin attempted twice with console versions of games. Micro Soft quit on CFSs because of their less than stellar version of CFSIII. Heck, they dumbed down Flight for god knows why. Who knows if they'll make another ever ahain. Sorry, and not to sound like a jerk, but your reasoning for a WW2CFS drought sounds like more of a cop out than anything.

The simple truth is genuine sims are too open to criticism from every arm chair expert on the internet and you are better off producing toys these days.

[Bearcat]

And, if you're having trouble understanding what I mean by their "blocking the genre's progress," here is a tip: MG's presence in the WW2 sim segment with their formidable repute scared off potential competitors. Now that it is obvious MG was not up to the task, chances are we will be seeing several developers showing up to fill the void (777 being one obviously and perhaps Eagle Dynamics). And that is why I am and you too should be happy that MG is out of the way, that is if you're a WW2 sim fan. They wasted 6 years for the genre. That's how I see it.

I don't know about that.. Perhaps the success of IL2 itself was a factor to a degree in keeping developers away because in spite of what it lacked it did so many things well but I don't think competitors were scared off by MG. I think that the lack of flight sims till recently had more to do with the fact that it is a niche market ... Not everyone is into flight sims .. and the majority of gamers who like other things from role playing games to FPS just do not have the patience or the interest to dive into a flight sim. Now PC technology is catching up sop that improvements on what IL2 did can be done easier with less outlay. Most of the people who appreciate flight sims are older and they also appreciate aviation .. and history.. and the market had been dominated by 1CMG for so long because the product was just that good and most of the people who are into that sort of thing are a very vocal, demanding lot and would have expected something at least on par with IL2. Look at Gaijin.. for all it's shortcomings WoP was not a bad piece of SW.. but they cut so many corners making it that they couldn't even "fix it" .. they had to redo it.. and we now have WT.. and just look at all the cries of "too arcade" "not a real sim" and "ok for gamers but.." that we see all over the community..

Personally I would have preferred for the sequel to IL2 to have remained in 1CMG hands and been released within a year of when it was originally scheduled.. even if it was not as good on some levels as CoD as long as it wasn't as bad on the levels that CoD was terrible when it was released.. including from a marketing stand point.. and was an improvement on the greatness that is IL2.. I and I am sure many others would have been happy..but that is not what happened and MG is no longer in existence but I don't think the competition was so much intimidated as they were not willing to go to the lengths that 1CMG did ... because they didn't have to. MS dropped out of the flight sim market... and this after pushing FSX as as real as it gets.. and then they pulled the rug.. because it is a very demanding market where you can only take so many take shortcuts .. because the community will notice and they will tell you.. and post all kinds of negative stuff on retail sites that you will need to sell your product ..

I think that the edge that 1C777 has in all this is that they know the market.. and they know what they can skimp on and what they can't and one thing that the demise of CoD proved beyond a shadow of a doubt is that you just can't do everything.. but there are certain tings that must be done right for an effective flight sim.. CoD tried to do everything right.. and it failed.. I cannot prove this so to a large degree it is moot.. but I can almost guarantee that if CoD had been released as basically IL2 1946.. with 2048x2048 skins with alphas (ala WoP) , a MDS a few more planes and objects and some of the features that have been done in the mods.. a few that have already been incorporated into 4.11.1 and are promised for 4.12 .. like WS support, 6DoF, axii for multi engined AC, axii for other controls in single engined AC like radiator and mix on a slider.. and some other functional feature type mods.. The thing would have sold like wild fire and they would still be in business. They could have copied the RoF model on all the planes in the sim that were not flyable and they would have been sucessful.. but the sim got hacked and that was that.. As much as I enjoy mods I can't help but wonder if this is partly chickens coming home to roost because if the sim had still been locked they could have done some od this stuff and made a profit to an extent and remained in business.. perhaps. We will never know. The fact that they gave away so much stuff free.. which only served to foster a spoiled, ungrateful petulant, vociferously vocal community and drain the resources, financial and personel of the company for bigger and better things didn't help either.

Hopefully 1C777 will learn from the mistakes of all the companies mentioned and come up with a product worthy of the titale of being a successor to IL2.. Currently neither RoF nor CoD are it.

[zapatista]

Hopefully 1C777 will learn from the mistakes of all the companies mentioned and come up with a product worthy of the titale of being a successor to IL2.. Currently neither RoF nor CoD are it.

nope !

for the simple reason that this new project by 1c and teflon jason is not deisgned to produce the best ww2 flightsim that is possible to create, its main purpose is to make money, and be as profitable as possible for them in doing so

it has nothing to do with creating quality ww2 flightsim product for hardcore simulation freaks.

1c has already stated as much at the outset of them agreeing to fund 777's next project ("1c likes the sales model and revenue generated"), and 777 has already shown this to be the case in its own track record in their sales model and indicating it will be their old ww1 game engine reskinned with a few new ww2 planes and a new map. after that you'll pay for every single future addon object/item, and the 1c reps are already salivating at the thought of it

[Feathered_IV]

That's the problem with young people these days. They have such an overblown sense of entitlement, they expect it all to be handed to them on a plate.

[zapatista]

That's the problem with young people these days. They have such an overblown sense of entitlement, they expect it all to be handed to them on a plate.

like all your bitching and moaning here for the last 2 years you mean ?

just apply your equal level of expectation to what the new 777 ww2 sim is going to be, and you will see it is by its very design going to be something much much less then what we currently already have in CoD

and remember that even after CoD was patched recently and it greatly improved, you personally didnt change your swan song of whining and kept cheering on trolls like tree

oooo but i see, you'r going to set different standards now for the new 777 project and then pretend the end product is the same thing ?

[WTE_Galway]

but I can almost guarantee that if CoD had been released as basically IL2 1946.. with 2048x2048 skins with alphas (ala WoP) , a MDS a few more planes and objects and some of the features that have been done in the mods.. a few that have already been incorporated into 4.11.1 and are promised for 4.12 .. like WS support, 6DoF, axii for multi engined AC, axii for other controls in single engined AC like radiator and mix on a slider.. and some other functional feature type mods.. The thing would have sold like wild fire and they would still be in business. They could have copied the RoF model on all the planes in the sim that were not flyable and they would have been sucessful.. but the sim got hacked and that was that.. As much as I enjoy mods I can't help but wonder if this is partly chickens coming home to roost because if the sim had still been locked they could have done some od this stuff and made a profit to an extent and remained in business.. perhaps.



+1 this be very true

[Fjordmonkey]

nope !

for the simple reason that this new project by 1c and teflon jason is not deisgned to produce the best ww2 flightsim that is possible to create, its main purpose is to make money, and be as profitable as possible for them in doing so

it has nothing to do with creating quality ww2 flightsim product for hardcore simulation freaks.

1c has already stated as much at the outset of them agreeing to fund 777's next project ("1c likes the sales model and revenue generated"), and 777 has already shown this to be the case in its own track record in their sales model and indicating it will be their old ww1 game engine reskinned with a few new ww2 planes and a new map. after that you'll pay for every single future addon object/item, and the 1c reps are already salivating at the thought of it

Most if not all software-companies has the focus on making money on their products. Hell, if you laid down 3+ years of work into a product that you're going to sell to others, wouldn't you want some return on your investment?

Sorry, Zappy'Ol'Chap, you're getting more and more silly in your knee-jerk responses wherever 777 is involved than what I see daily in the Apple/Android-wars.

[Feathered_IV]

just apply your equal level of expectation to what the new 777 ww2 sim is going to be, and you will see it is by its very design going to be something much much less then what we currently already have in CoD

I'm fine with that. I also am fine with paying a fair price for additional content.
Out of curiosity, what does your comment "Teflon Jason" mean? You've used it a few times now in a disparaging sort of way but I'm unsure of context.

[bzc3lk]

like all your bitching and moaning here for the last 2 years you mean ?

Oh, the irony! :rolleyes:



oooo but i see, you'r going to set different standards now for the new 777 project and then pretend the end product is the same thing ?

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f51/bzc3lk/TREEPROOFtin-foil-hate_zps00ef93bb.jpg

[Wolf_Rider]

The fact that they gave away so much stuff free.. which only served to foster a spoiled, ungrateful petulant, vociferously vocal community and drain the resources, financial and personel of the company for bigger and better things didn't help either.




meanwhile... others charge for the privilege (take a look at RoF fans when they're away from home ;) )

[Fjordmonkey]

meanwhile... others charge for the privilege (take a look at RoF fans when they're away from home ;) )

That might be, but at least their product actually works pretty well, and their business-model secures continuation of the project. Can you say the same about CLoD?

[Wolf_Rider]

given the same time in the wild, who knows how CLoD would have polished up...

How's the sound bug and low FPS over towns, washed out scenery in RoF with pasted on looking objects/ items going??

[Fjordmonkey]

given the same time in the wild, who knows how CLoD would have polished up...

CLoD didn't have the time nor the steady income that RoF had/has, and thus it's a moot point. Besides, look at the economics behind CLoD: A good number of years and a good chunk of cash thrown into a project that never turned out right, that got slaughtered by both reviewers and players alike, and that had so many issues big and small that it was unplayable for a large portion of the community for well over a year. Again, money talks, bullshit walks, and CLoD sadly took a walk with it.

How's the sound bug and low FPS over towns, washed out scenery in RoF with pasted on looking objects/ items going??

No idea. I haven't followed RoF's development, nor have I played it much since I prefer an ME109 over a Fokker Triplane any day of the week. What I DO know is that for me, RoF works while CLoD is like a supermodel: Looks good, but has more issues than I care to mention.

[Wolf_Rider]

CLoD didn't have the time nor the steady income that RoF had/has, and thus it's a moot point. .



No idea. I haven't followed RoF's development, nor have I played it much


SO... lets see if anyone can spot what is wrong with Fjord's argument...

[Fjordmonkey]

SO... lets see if anyone can spot what is wrong with Fjord's argument...

Please point that out to me, O Great and Wise One :rolleyes:

[arthursmedley]

SO... lets see if anyone can spot what is wrong with Fjord's argument...



Oh...I know, I know!! The flaw in his argument is that he's bothering to have one with an internet loony!:-P

[WTE_Galway]

To be honest there no longer seems to be a market for a detailed historically accurate military flight sim. The real money is in the "awesome graphics and kinda looks historical" online semi-arcade shoot-em-up market.

CloD may have failed even IF it had been brilliant when first released, the market has changed.

[SlipBall]

I'd love to see the Med. historically done

[furbs]

Hmmmm the Med. :grin: desert 109's

[WTE_Galway]

I'd love to see the Med. historically done

To be honest people interested in historical campaigns would be far better off abandoning all the shiny new super hi-res Hollywood movie like arcade games and returning to 1946.

[SlipBall]

Hmmmm the Med. :grin: desert 109's

yea.. and camels buzzards and the mysterious dune girl

To be honest people interested in historical campaigns would be far better off abandoning all the shiny new super hi-res Hollywood movie like arcade games and returning to 1946.


its hard to fly 46 anymore even though its loaded with things to do

[furbs]

yea.. and camels buzzards and the mysterious dune girl



Cheeky! dont temp me Slip. :grin:

[bongodriver]

Cheeky! dont temp me Slip. :grin:


Camels?

[furbs]

SSsshhh Bongo, funny people talking.

[bongodriver]

SSsshhh Bongo, funny people talking.

You can say that again......

[raaaid]

Oh...I know, I know!! The flaw in his argument is that he's bothering to have one with an internet loony!:-P

are these litle moments what makes life so enjoyable