What is the best performing Red fighter & why?

[MadTommy]

I'm curious to know what you think is the is the best performing Red fighter on online servers & why?

Personally i have not flown the variety of types enough to guage, so would love to hear what you think.

Cheers.

[macro]

Im sure it would come down to personnal preference but mine is the 100 oct hurri. Fast up high and with boost on down low. Stable gun platform. Out turns 109's most of the time.

[5./JG27.Farber]

This is quite a funny thing from a blue perspective, as we have seen red switch again and again and go all around the houses. First it was the Hurri Rotol, then the spit IIa then the two stage prop stuff... Right now I'd say it was mostly the spit Ia but sometimes and equal dose of the hurri 100 oct.

Maybe you should have made this a poll. - However its funny you ask which is the best performing and not which is the most popular... Two totally different questions.

[MadTommy]

This is quite a funny thing from a blue perspective, as we have seen red switch again and again and go all around the houses. First it was the Hurri Rotol, then the spit IIa then the two stage prop stuff... Right now I'd say it was mostly the spit Ia but sometimes and equal dose of the hurri 100 oct.

Maybe you should have made this a poll. - However its funny you ask which is the best performing and not which is the most popular... Two totally different questions.

This is kind of why i asked the question... I have literally no idea, with all the changes over the various patches and my lack of understanding on how to get the best out of each plane it is hard for me to test correctly. I'm very curious to know what others think / know.

I must admit I've very pleasantly surprised the only answer so far has been a Hurricane! :grin:

Anyway would love to hear your opinions.

(I tend to use the Spit 2a as it has the biggest number in its name.. so must be best! :) )

[5./JG27.Farber]

(I tend to use the Spit 2a as it has the biggest number in its name.. so must be best! :) )

Yes I still see this sometimes and thought they were flying it for the same reason. The fear factor of the Spit IIa is gone but the confidence factor for some guys flying it remains... Whereas the SpitIa IS to be feared and is rightly so. However the lesser feared hurricane in the right place is usually fatal.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Salute

The question as to what is the best Red plane is a question of altitude.

Below 9000 ft, the point at which the engine cutout bug appears for the Spit IA 100 octane, it is the best Red plane. It climbs the best, turns the best, and is the fastest.

Over 9000 ft, the Spit IIA is the best option for the Reds. It does not on the surface have issues with the engine cutout bug, however, it is very prone to overheating at 15,000 ft +, and recently I have discovered that running max. boost at altitudes over approx. 16,000 can cause engine failure in a very short time, even if heat was correct when boost was applied. Since the boost levels at that altitude are below what was rated as within 30 minute allowance, the plane is obviously not modelled correctly.

The Hurricanes are a step below the Spitfires, although strange as it seems, and totally in defiance of the historical reality, the Hurricane I 100 octane is better than the Spit IA 100 octane at 15,000 ft... but not good enough to fight the 109's up there on even terms.

Overall the Hurricanes are best used below 10,000 ft, not an acccurate representation of their real performance, historically they were capable up their Full throttle height, approx. 17,000 ft.

The Spit IA 87 octane is also better than the Spit IA 100 octane over 9000 ft, (also ahistorical) and in fact is the next best plane to the Spit IIA at those altitudes.

The Spit I is also better than the Spit 1A 100 octane at altitude, although I think it is not quite as good as the IA.

And of course, it all depends on the pilot, 109's are shot down by Hurricanes, although the numbers of players flying the Hurricanes is again in decline.

What's the best plane to shoot down bombers with? The Hurricane. It's gun placement makes it more effective. I usually get 2-4 bombers with a Hurricane compared to 1-3 with a Spitfire, depending on the type. Of course compared to the 110, the Hurricane is pathetic, I got 7 Blenheims once with a 110, and would have had more if a Hurricane hadn't appeared in the defence of the last one.

[MadTommy]

Thanks for taking the time to reply *Buzzsaw*, very helpful analysis, and paints an interesting and confusing picture.

Basically there is no one fighter of choice... i certainly love the Hurri as a gun platform for bomber hunting. I have not flown any of the 100oct fighters.. will have to get them airborne. I prefer the visibility from the Spit's bubble glass canopy.

Thanks again for an interesting write up.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Thats the thing with the red side through out WWII, so many different fighters. Its actually what makes the blue side challenging. (although here when I refer to the blue side) The Luftwaffe only have two "mainstream" "fighters" - the 109 and 190 but many more opponants, althought you (on the blue side) get to keep the same aircraft (through its many veriations). Although on the red side you get allot more variation... ;)

[*Buzzsaw*]

Thats the thing with the red side through out WWII, so many different fighters. Its actually what makes the blue side challenging. (although here when I refer to the blue side) The Luftwaffe only have two "mainstream" "fighters" - the 109 and 190 but many more opponants, althought you (on the blue side) get to keep the same aircraft (through its many veriations). Although on the red side you get allot more variation... ;)

In this case a disadvantage, with having to use different models for different altitudes, since the historical performance is not there.

[5./JG27.Farber]

In this case a disadvantage, with having to use different models for different altitudes, since the historical performance is not there.

Tell that to the spits on my tail and the sneaky Hurricanes! :-P

[*Buzzsaw*]

The fear factor of the Spit IIa is gone...

Yes we have all noticed the Blue side's explosive complaints have dropped off when they realized not much has really changed.

Maybe the 109's can't play like cats play with mice with the Spits and Hurris right down on the deck anymore, but they can still do it over 10,000 where the bombers come in.

[MadTommy]

Im sure it would come down to personnal preference but mine is the 100 oct hurri. Fast up high and with boost on down low. Stable gun platform. Out turns 109's most of the time.

Just tested out the Hurri 100Oct... VERY nice.. i'm impressed.

Think i have found my new favourite. :grin:

[5./JG27.Farber]

Yes we have all noticed the Blue side's explosive complaints have dropped off when they realized not much has really changed.

Maybe the 109's can't play like cats play with mice with the Spits and Hurris right down on the deck anymore, but they can still do it over 10,000 where the bombers come in.

Boo hoo... good thats where we all should be anyway. ;)

[*Buzzsaw*]

Boo hoo... good thats where we all should be anyway. ;)]

In a Luftwaffles fantasy world maybe... it seems that's where a lot of the Blue community live, no interest in accuracy or realism, they just want their 'uber' plane.

The fact is, there was very little difference between the Spitfire's and 109E at higher alts. The 109E had a slightly better climb and better ceiling, the Spit IIA was actually faster.

Right now we have a fantasy world where the 109's can pull their zooms into the stratosphere over 10,000, or speed away, while the Spitfires and Hurricanes crawl around underneath.

But I guess it was too much to expect accuracy out of these developers.

[5./JG27.Farber]

]

In a Luftwaffles fantasy world maybe... it seems that's where a lot of the Blue community live, no interest in accuracy or realism, they just want their 'uber' plane.

The fact is, there was very little difference between the Spitfire's and 109E at higher alts. The 109E had a slightly better climb and better ceiling, the Spit IIA was actually faster.

Right now we have a fantasy world where the 109's can pull their zooms into the stratosphere over 10,000, or speed away, while the Spitfires and Hurricanes crawl around underneath.

But I guess it was too much to expect accuracy out of these developers.


Please dont tell me Im living in a fantasy world and say things that are NOT true... ARE YOU ON THE LATEST STEAM PATCH?


I voted for 100 oct fuel and many red bugs. Dont accuse me of living in a fantasy world and asking for uber blue aircraft. There has been little asking from the blue side and infact many blue pilots have supported the remoddling of red aircraft... You should have been here six months ago!

Allot of reds also choose to fly on the deck!


Actually about half of blue fly low for instant furballs devoiding us more "historically based" flying blue the engagement at all!

You can no longer, in a 109 with equal energy, escape a spit in anything other than a dive... He can keep pace in level flight and will catch you in a climb by waiting till he is underneath you before pulling up!


I heard there is a problem with the spit 100 oct about 3km's, try flying the Spit Ia instead of the spit Ia 100 oct... ;) I hear its better at high alt...

[trademe900]

High altitudes are really irrelevant at this stage given the very poor modelling of higher altitudes and stuttering problems with red planes.

At 10,000 and under where all the fighting takes place the modelling is generally satisfactory and here the spit 2a is the best. Sure the 100 octane outspeeds it a little but max speed is really irrelevant unless in a long chase across the channel where energy state is the same. The 100 octane has bad overheating problems.

Next I'd say Hurricane 100oct which is what I fly most of the time. It does not have the chronic overheating problems and really turns well at certain speeds, but what's important is that it is an extremely stable gun platform and you can get shots in at longer range with confidence than flying a spit or 109. Especially good for bombers as you can unload the guns into the enemy plane with accuracy and then break away earlier. However any good 109 pilot who finds hurricane on their tail will immediately bleed off the hurricanes energy with a few quick rolls and then put the aircraft into a steep climb and speed away with relative ease. It's amazing how many 109 pilots don't do this though... oh damn, now i've spoiled the secret!

[*Buzzsaw*]

You can no longer, in a 109 with equal energy, escape a spit in anything other than a dive... He can keep pace in level flight and will catch you in a climb by waiting till he is underneath you before pulling up!

Not the case over 10,000 ft, and under, you can do the 'Bunt and pullup, Bunt and pullup' routine or use your superior rollrate.

I'll give you an example how your claim of Spits at equal energy being able to catch 109's is not accurate.

I was at 20,000 ft on the ATAG server in a Spit IIA, spotted a formation of Blue bombers at approx. 15,000, with two 109's on top of them at approx. 17,000 up sun from the bombers. There were several Spits and Hurris slightly lower trying to climb up to attack the bombers. If things went as usual the 109's in the sun would dive on the Red planes and shoot them out of the air before they could close on the bombers.

I approached the formation and the 109s with the intention of disrupting this situation by driving the 109's down to the level of the bombers where the Spits and Hurris climbing up would have a better chance.

I started with a dive on one of the 109's, I was up sun of him, but he saw me and avoided my pass which showed a speed of 240 mph on my gauge at 18,500 ft. I had much more speed and energy than he did, or his partner. I pulled up smoothly to regain my alt, but because of the poor climb of the Spits at that alt, did not regain 20,000 ft. I was still at least 2000 ft above the 109's. My temperatures were already climbing despite having rpm of 2600 and boost of +0 before the attack, temp of 90, now they were close to 95, after using 2800 and higher boost in my zoom. One 109 went one direction, the other the opposite, trying to split. I moved towards the one which was the higher which was approx. 4 km away and climbing very steeply. He turned, (obviously having to bleed some speed doing this, and obviously going very slowly after the steep climb, and came back at me dropping his nose a little to gain speed. He passed under me, with me at at least 1500 ft higher. We both pulled up into zooms which put us about 2000 meters apart. I watched as he gained on me in the zoom, and in fact pulled out just a hair below my alt. I came out over the top and rolled out into level flight out at a higher speed than him, pointing at him, he had practically stalled at the top of his zoom. I started to move back towards him, initially I was closing fairly rapidly. Instead of having to put down his nose and dive away, he started a climb away. As I closed, my speed bled off almost immediately, and my extremely poor climb was gaining me hardly any alt. I couldn't firewall the throttle and put rpms to 3000 because temps were already at 95. I watched as he simply climbed away from me, despite starting at lower speed and energy.

Sorry, I did nothing wrong in my maneuvers, I was simply flying a plane which is completely uncompetitive at those altitudes.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I did nothing wrong in my maneuvers, I was simply flying a plane which is completely uncompetitive at those altitudes.

Always blame the aircraft! :-P The first place I always look for the mistake is myself!

[Bounder!]

The Spitfire variants are sub par in performance to the 109 and Hurricane at altitudes above 15,000ft. There is, in addition, a bug with a number of the Spitfires at altitude; the Spit 1a 100 Oct is most severely effected but it is there on other variants - as you gain altitude the engine splutters and cuts out unless you run at reduced rpms and boost below anything like combat settings. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how we've been left with Spits in this state in the final patch.

As a Spitfire pilot at the moment you have to pick your variant on based on what altitude you want to fly which is fecking ridiculous if you pardon my French ;) Altitude fighting might not be important to those that like to hug the deck on ATAG or Replica4 but it is important for campaigns like the SoW campaign where the fights start at 17-18 thousand feet but often end up going much much lower.

[bw_wolverine]

Bounder's right. It's very distressing to have the Spitfires end up the way they have. I just get the feeling that the Maddox games guys and 1C just had no real way to fix them and that the issues are tied to the service ceiling issues that they claim 'cannot be fixed without major changes in sequel'.

So we live with what we have. Plenty of 109s do silly things and leave themselves open to attack. If you find a 109 not doing silly things, then you'd better have friends with you watching your back, that's all I can say.

[MadTommy]

On the release of the 1st RC patch, Luthier said all planes had issues over 26,000 ft i think he was be rather generous to himself, in fact it is more like 12,000 ft.

But we have to look on the bright side.. online very little happens above 17,000ft, and going forward mission designers will just have to take this into account and knock 10,000 foot off ideal altitudes for bombers etc.

There is no point adding bomber over 18,000 ft considering few few red models can doing anything more than creep alone up there.

[trademe900]

that's right madtommy. It's a complete joke to say above 26,000 feet there are issues, a huge slap in the face to all! It takes an entire day to climb to that height in the current state! Above 10,000 feet there are big issues and inaccuracies.

We will all just have to continue fighting at sea level for the time being. Below 10,000 feet is the only altitude where the game is somewhat accurate.