AI suddenly stops fighting

[Matze81]

When I setup a nice dogfight mission in the FMB, everything starts out nicely with a huge furball with the AI actually maneuvering as they're supposed to. After a while, however, the AI planes on both sides stop fighting and head back to their landing field or final waypoint, although the enemy planes are still around.

They will still maneuver defensively when I attack them, but they don't fight each other anymore.
I tried assigning multiple crossing waypoints for BLUE and RED with "Attack Fighters" but it's always the same. Increasing AI awareness, bravery etc. didn't help either.

How can I setup a large short range dogfight mission (like 7 vs 12) in a way so that the AI planes will fight each other, until all of the enemy planes are shot down?

[Hlander]

Unlike the original il-2, the AI run out of ammo and either return home or do circuits. I do not think this is affected by the unlimited ammo choice in the realism section or can be edited in the .mis file.

From my own personal experience to lengthen a skirmish and get tangible results, I do the following for AI.
• Veteran setting for AI
• Change default loadouts for AI (Get more bang for your buck)
• Assign actual tasks and targets. Example Fighter group 1 escorts bomber group 1, whilst fighter group 2 attacks the bomber group and a third fighter group attacks the escorts.

I also find the smaller the flight the better, as the fighters are not constantly spraying ammo at different targets.

[Matze81]

You might be right about the AI running out of ammo. I did have the feeling however, that also enemy airplanes and their wingmen suddenly roll out of a fight and fly towards home, after being entangled in a turning fight with me for a few minutes, without really getting the opportunity to shoot. Hmmh, I'll have to take a closer look at some of track files, I guess.

But still, you might be right! Thanks for the input, m8! I'll definately try what you suggested.

[Blackdog_kt]

Well, it may be proper wingmen tactics. It is the leader's job to shoot and the wingman's to cover, so if the leader is out of ammo maybe his wingmen also follow him home?

I know the AI still needs improvement, but i also don't want to see a repeat of IL2 where they would fight to the end all the time. Smart AI should in fact try to bug out if they think they can't win.

[Matze81]

Well, it may be proper wingmen tactics. It is the leader's job to shoot and the wingman's to cover, so if the leader is out of ammo maybe his wingmen also follow him home?

I know the AI still needs improvement, but i also don't want to see a repeat of IL2 where they would fight to the end all the time. Smart AI should in fact try to bug out if they think they can't win.
That's true, of course!

It's just, since we have the appropriate AI settings, I just wish they would have a more profound effect. For example, if I would like to have a more 'action oriented' mission, setting 'discipline' all low and 'bravery' all high, should give me exactly that. It wouldn't even be that unrealistic really; I'm sure there were a bunch of Hot-Heads out there back in the days.

But I understand that the AI is low priority for the developers. There's lots of other stuff to fix!
And also a lot of the community couldn't care less, since they focus on online play.

As for a bunch of other stuff, I just hope they're gonna fine tune it eventually!

[bolox]

AI breaking off is due to several factors in my experience:

fuel level- if low on fuel are more likely to break off

Bravery/discipline skill levels- low bravery (in combination with low fuel) increases the chances of breaking off. Being attacked/threatened seems to 'take a chunk' out of a 'pool' of bravery (as does low fuel). When the pool is empty AI go into a 'RTB dummy' mode where they will just try to get home at 500m/300km/h and will rarely do more than mild evasion when specifically attacked.
This behaviour is (slightly) better than on original release.

All this presumes AI have a landing point designated. If no landing point is spesified they will try to circle last waypoint

The AI sliders do have an effect, it seems as though they often act in conjunction with other sliders and some external influences.

To get a 'more mad furball' type fight push up the sliders- but put some variation in for individual aircraft;)
Basic flying- make full/very high
Advanced flying 3-5 (maybe a few planes higher)
Awareness 5-8
Gunnery 6-10
Tactics mostly high/full
Vision 7-10
Bravery- make variable but keep high if you want them to stick around
Discipline- make variable

would be where I'd start, but play around/watch on external/review tracks

[Matze81]

@bolox

I was trying different AI slider settings in the past and yes, they do have a noticeable effect. However, the thing is that the AI reaches this "RTB dummy" stage still too early; at least for my taste.
Maybe what I have in mind is just too unrealistic, so the AI wasn't programmed to behave like this, even when the sliders are set to the applicable maximum settings (Bravery, etc.).
Also I'm gonna try some diversity, as you suggested. So far, when I changed the AI settings, I gave all of the planes the same ones. Maybe that's the key.

Thanks for trying to help, guys!

[SG1_Lud]

I know that via scripts is possible to interrogate an airgroup about its position current waypoint and task. Also you can assign new waypoints and tasks.

It is not difficult either to obtain the position of your plane via script-

So you could - via script - interrogate periodically about the wp and task, and in case they are RTB, make them como back to you.

Ask Kodiak in the scripts sub forums, he is the man for this job. For example, he has published an script that makes an AI patrol. The patrol will cycle in a rectangle of 5 x 10 Km during 30 cycles, in case the run out of fuel, the scripts locates the nearest airfield and makes it the next waypoint with the task "Land".

The rest is to set the AI sliders correctly as you was told above, try discipline low so they will not be so correct and attack you disregarding other considerations. And advanced flying not too high so they do not make strange manouvers.

Hope it helps!

[Rince]

Aloha!

I'm pretty sure that You're Talking about teatime. Just Set the daytime a Little Bit earlier. Or fly against axis-Problem solved. ;-)

[Matze81]

I know that via scripts is possible to interrogate an airgroup about its position current waypoint and task. Also you can assign new waypoints and tasks.

It is not difficult either to obtain the position of your plane via script-

So you could - via script - interrogate periodically about the wp and task, and in case they are RTB, make them como back to you.

Ask Kodiak in the scripts sub forums, he is the man for this job. For example, he has published an script that makes an AI patrol. The patrol will cycle in a rectangle of 5 x 10 Km during 30 cycles, in case the run out of fuel, the scripts locates the nearest airfield and makes it the next waypoint with the task "Land".

The rest is to set the AI sliders correctly as you was told above, try discipline low so they will not be so correct and attack you disregarding other considerations. And advanced flying not too high so they do not make strange manouvers.

Hope it helps!

Well, that sounds pretty cool! I have to look into that.
Something like this could definately work for my missions.

Aloha!

I'm pretty sure that You're Talking about teatime. Just Set the daytime a Little Bit earlier. Or fly against axis-Problem solved. ;-)
:grin:

[pencon]

There should be a setting for the ai to be unrealistically agressive with unlimited ammo just for target practise like in 1946 quick mission .If the AI were like this I would would play COD more often .Not EVERY aspect has to be totally realistic .The option should also be there for some unrealistic fun aggressive dogfighting were all the planes DONT leave the scene after 2 minutes .I find that after the enemy AI decides to leave , they just keep flying straight ahead with barely a manuever while I'm right behind them shooting them down .
That gets old pretty quick .The BIGGEST improvement to this sim would be to make the AI respond properly .I'd love it if your own squadron mates got PO'd if you shot at them and attacked you as a rogue .

[David198502]

i also like, that unlike in 1946 stock AI, now it seems to decide to avoid fights, if they run out of ammo, or received damage, or are outnumbered.....
but i also think, that the AI in common, should be more agressive.

[David198502]

There should be a setting for the ai to be unrealistically agressive with unlimited ammo just for target practise like in 1946 quick mission .If the AI were like this I would would play COD more often .Not EVERY aspect has to be totally realistic .The option should also be there for some unrealistic fun aggressive dogfighting were all the planes leave the scene after 2 minutes .I find that after the enemy AI decides to leave , they just keep flying straight ahead with barely a manuever while I'm right behind them shooting them down .
That gets old pretty quick .The BIGGEST improvement to this sim would be to make the AI respond properly .I'd love it if your own squadron mates got PO'd if you shot at them and attacked you as a rogue .

the AI will react if you shoot your own comrades....i have seen it at least on He111s, that the gunners begin to shoot at you after a while, once you killed one or two of them, even if you are on the same side..

[Hlander]

A link to a great article about COD AI settings.

http://www.bobgamehub.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/ai-settings-in-cliffs-of-dover.html

[SlipBall]

If you sneak up on a wing man and kill him right away, before he can radio the leader. Why then you can do the same thing to the leader:evil: