Spit 2a overheating...

[Daliaraptor]

Hey guys

I am getting confused with the behavior of temperature of the spit 2a , maybe somebody can help.
I run the engine slowly to about 40°C Oil 30°C Water. Then i gently speed up, to 2800rpm and full boost (without additional boost) and take off. Cooler fully open.
So now the problem. Sometimes, after the take off, i can fly with full power at 2800rpm and the engine stays below 90°C Oil and 90°C Water (somtimes even lower) with half closed radiator.
But sometimes and more often, the engine is overheading right after the start, even when i throttle the rpm below 2600, set boost behind the red mark and fly faster than 200m/h. The nedle rises and rises.
If i cool the engine down, my plane is now more a glider, the temerature rises so fast over the 100°C Watertemerature when i need power again. its impossible to win a fight, it results always in a engine damage.
Is there a precise work around how to do engine management from take off?
Do i make a mistake, or is this a bug? Because sometimes it just works???

Thanks for help...

[FFCW_Urizen]

I got the tip to lean the Mixture and lower revs to around 2200-2400 rpms. On sunday it worked.

[Catseye]

Works well if you set rpm for 2500 and fly full boost. Set 2200 - 2400 cruise.

2800 is best in a furball below 10,000 ft with limited use.

[Sutts]

I got the tip to lean the Mixture and lower revs to around 2200-2400 rpms. On sunday it worked.

It may be a work around but not very realistic unfortunately. Climbing was an auto rich operation.

Would be good to get to the bottom of this one - what factor is causing the difference in cooling efficiency I wonder?

[Sutts]

The following is straight from the Spit pilot's notes:

ACTIONS AFTER TAKE-OFF
Close the radiator shutter (unless a high power climb is done, when the lever should be a little forward).


These aircraft are designed to fly at fairly high power settings with the radiator in the closed position (it isn't actually fully closed of course but in the minimum opening position). Slow speeds and very high power settings are the exception I think.

[ATAG_Snapper]

Works well if you set rpm for 2500 and fly full boost. Set 2200 - 2400 cruise.

2800 is OK but best in a furball below 10,000 ft with limited use.

+1

2800 rpms is pretty high, especially at high boost. Fine for take offs and sparing use in dogfights, but murder on a sustained climb.

[IvanK]

Spit IIA Oil cooling/temp rise versus Pilots notes limits is currently porked in this patch. This came with the New (correct) true +9Lbs Boost availability with Full throttle. Note the Boost gauge scale only goes to +8.

Has been reported directly to Devs with all documentation sent. Suggested as High Priority fix.

Oil Temp rise is just way to quick on Spit IIA that results in engine damage. Oil Temp indication is Inlet Temp. Spit MKIIA Oil temp Combat limit is 5 mins at 105C, Normal Climb limit is 90C. A Climb all the way to 30,000ft at +9/2850RPM should be possible without any real issues with Oil Temp rise. Attached JPG of RAE Climb Oil cooling test trials illustrates this. Devs have this info.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Spit2Oiltemponclimb.jpg

Hurri info attached here as well. As you can see Hurris is not even a remote issue with Oil Temp rise. I guess a better Oil cooler I guess coupled with being in the radiator bath so rad flap area has a greater influence in cooling.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Hurri1oiltempclb.jpg

Tip for the moment. Forget the MKIIA. Use the MKIA You can easily climb +6/2850 Rad open all the way to 14,000ft with Oil temp only just getting up to 95C.
Note for the record IRL Spit IA Climb limit Oil temp is meant to be 90C at +6/2600 with a 5min combat limit of 95C.

(On a side note there was an issue with Classic IL2 in that the cockpit gauges showed Inlet temp whilst the FM/EM used outlet temp so conversion was required to get usable cockpit indications when the cooling routine was re done in ver 4.10. I am not sure if this is a similar situation in COD)

[ATAG_Snapper]

Great info, IvanK. Thanks for posting this.

[Sutts]

Spit IIA Oil cooling/temp rise versus Pilots notes limits is currently porked in this patch. This came with the New (correct) true +9Lbs Boost availability with Full throttle. Note the Boost gauge scale only goes to +8.

Has been reported directly to Devs with all documentation sent. Suggested as High Priority fix.

Oil Temp rise is just way to quick on Spit IIA that results in engine damage. Oil Temp indication is Inlet Temp. Spit MKIIA Oil temp Combat limit is 5 mins at 105C, Normal Climb limit is 90C. A Climb all the way to 30,000ft at +9/2850RPM should be possible without any real issues with Oil Temp rise. Attached JPG of RAE Climb Oil cooling test trials illustrates this. Devs have this info.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Spit2Oiltemponclimb.jpg

Hurri info attached here as well. As you can see Hurris is not even a remote issue with Oil Temp rise. I guess a better Oil cooler I guess coupled with being in the radiator bath so rad flap area has a greater influence in cooling.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Hurri1oiltempclb.jpg

Tip for the moment. Forget the MKIIA. Use the MKIA You can easily climb +6/2850 Rad open all the way to 14,000ft with Oil temp only just getting up to 95C.
Note for the record IRL Spit IA Climb limit Oil temp is meant to be 90C at +6/2600 with a 5min combat limit of 95C.

(On a side note there was an issue with Classic IL2 in that the cockpit gauges showed Inlet temp whilst the FM/EM used outlet temp so conversion was required to get usable cockpit indications when the cooling routine was re done in ver 4.10. I am not sure if this is a similar situation in COD)


Good info there Ivan thanks. It does seem from the pilot notes that such a climb should be possible with a closed or slightly open radiator. Would you agree?

[ATAG_Dutch]

I run the engine slowly to about 40°C Oil 30°C Water.

Just one or two things to add to the above posts.

I always warm the water temp to 60 degrees or preferably 80 before moving at all. I don't take much notice of the oil temp in any of the Spits while I'm on the ground.

Once the water is up to above 60, take off at max revs/max boost, without engaging 'emergency' boost. Gear up, and allow airspeed to exceed 185mph before throttling back to +4 boost and changing prop pitch to give 2800rpm. Throttle adjust to give +5 boost, or + 6.25 if you're in a rush. Then watch your temps, and reduce revs with prop pitch if oil exceeds 95 degrees, reduce boost if coolant exceeds 110 degrees. Your engine won't blow because of water temp until 120 degrees. Set your rad at halfway open/closed.

For a nice relaxing climb, set revs at 2500rpm and throttle to +5 boost. Unless there are bogies above your airfield, why stress your engine? Climb rate at 165mph, 2500rpm and +5 boost is about 2000ft per min.

This is from memory, so some specific mph/RoC figs may be slightly off. But don't fly your plane at max performance everywhere at all times. It wouldn't happen in real life, so it shouldn't happen in the game. :)

[White Owl]

Glad they're aware of it, and glad it's suggested as a high priority fix. Leaning the mix to cool the engine is absurd.

[IvanK]

Glad they're aware of it, and glad it's suggested as a high priority fix. Leaning the mix to cool the engine is absurd.

Agreed, as is selecting Auto lean to get smooth operation with Boost cutout .... also snagged with the devs.

[Bounder!]

Great to hear that the devs are aware, thanks IvanK.

[BTB]

Question how u understand the 5 min boost limit?

For me its like for the 109, u can use it for "5 mins" depending on temperature, after cooling and reaching normal temps and one can use it again.

Sure it stresses the engine, and all the Pilot has to do,is to tell the groundcrew that he has used it, so that they can decide how to inspect the engine.


i am referring to these both links: have a look in it ;D
(edit: merlin packard 1650 / technical manual for merlin 66 67 70 71 76 77 85)
http://aviationshoppe.com/manuals/v-1650_engine_packard/merlin.html

http://aviationshoppe.com/manuals/engine_technical_manual/merlin_66_67_70_71_76_77_85.html

[IvanK]

The 5 min limit (like the other limits) is based on engine longevity not an absolute limit. The intent in the RAF context is 5 mins per sortie. There is nothing to stop you using the way you suggest though all that is likely to do is reduce the longevity of the engine.

[Jugdriver]

I have been finding inconsistent engine management settings for the Spit Ia 100 oct after the patch. On some sorties I can climb quite aggressively after takeoff without overheat then on the next sortie with the same RPM and boost settings the oil temp will go critical, sounds like you are having the same issue with the IIA. I am trying to be as consistent as possible with my take offs to make sure I am not causing the issue, but so far it seems very random.

JD
AKA_MattE

[Daliaraptor]

it seems im not alone with this issue. thats all i want to hear :)
i made the experience that the overheading issue starts after the maiden flight, respawning leads to this strange behavior of the engine temperaturs.
hows about the mixture, which changed in this patch in 2a?
should i set as rich before the exhoust flame geting red/yelow
or can i set it full rich like before? whats the benefit of it?
@ivanK i give the spit 1a a try, but is it still as lame as bevore
so i have to scare like hell when spoting a 109, even when im in a superrior position?

im glad the devs are focusing this problem...

[Kwiatek]

Spitfire MK II should be able to fly at combat power settings - +9 lbs at 2850 RPMs for 1/2 hour limit without problem.

Spitfire MK1 and Hurricane MK1 combat power settings ( 1/2 hour) from BOB time was +6 lbs at 2850 RPMs below 20 000 ft and 3000 RPMs above 20 000 ft.

In CLod there is still many things to fix regarding engine power settings and performacne of planes ( near all planes are too slow and have too low service celling)

[SEE]

So glad to see this thread, I only logged on to see if there was an issue with the Spit 2 with this patch. I have been very busy but had a quick sorty on ATAG to test the new patch. In SP and MP I suffered engine failure even though the settings/conditions/load at the time were no different to previous patches and have always been reliable and to the book.

[SiThSpAwN]

I have been tweaking the prop pitch to maintain suitable temps, would this not be accurate? My first flight in the Spit IIa resulted in overheating, but now I can keep her where she needs to be with prop pitch.

[GraveyardJimmy]

I have been tweaking the prop pitch to maintain suitable temps, would this not be accurate? My first flight in the Spit IIa resulted in overheating, but now I can keep her where she needs to be with prop pitch.

I find prop pitch has more effect on temps than boost does. Needle at about 12 position (straight up) with radiator opened if temps are rising normally works.

[SiThSpAwN]

I find prop pitch has more effect on temps than boost does. Needle at about 12 position (straight up) with radiator opened if temps are rising normally works.

That's been my experience as well, but I am no pro on how these birds are supposed to run, so I wanna make sure I am not doing more work than I should be, or adjusting something I shouldnt be. I really do love CEM...

[Kwiatek]

In RL manuals there are power settings for engine which give you information which power settings and how long you could use safelty.

Unfortunately regarding British fighters CLOD is still wrong in these area and you have to used lower power settings ( expecially RPMs) too not broke engine when IRL you could used much higher settings.

Other hand e.x. in CLOD 109 E could fly all day long at 5 minutes emergency power settings - 1.35 Ata 2400 RPMs.

Not mention that near all these planes had reduced ab. 20-30 mph in their maximum speed and have too low service celling.

1C still have a lot work to in CEM and performacne of these planes.

Thats the problem is

[SiThSpAwN]

In RL manuals there are power settings for engine which give you information which power settings and how long you could use safelty.

Unfortunately regarding British fighters CLOD is still wrong in these area and you have to used lower power settings ( expecially RPMs) too not broke engine when IRL you could used much higher settings.

Other hand e.x. in CLOD 109 E could fly all day long at 5 minutes emergency power settings - 1.35 Ata 2400 RPMs.

Not mention that near all these planes had reduced ab. 20-30 mph in their maximum speed and have too low service celling.

1C still have a lot work to in CEM and performacne of these planes.

Thats the problem is

Well the good news there is that we are starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel on the graphics issues (not there just yet) so I would think more effort can be put into the FM of each plane.

[MadTommy]

Just one or two things to add to the above posts.

I always warm the water temp to 60 degrees or preferably 80 before moving at all. I don't take much notice of the oil temp in any of the Spits while I'm on the ground.

Once the water is up to above 60, take off at max revs/max boost, without engaging 'emergency' boost. Gear up, and allow airspeed to exceed 185mph before throttling back to +4 boost and changing prop pitch to give 2800rpm. Throttle adjust to give +5 boost, or + 6.25 if you're in a rush. Then watch your temps, and reduce revs with prop pitch if oil exceeds 95 degrees, reduce boost if coolant exceeds 110 degrees. Your engine won't blow because of water temp until 120 degrees. Set your rad at halfway open/closed.

For a nice relaxing climb, set revs at 2500rpm and throttle to +5 boost. Unless there are bogies above your airfield, why stress your engine? Climb rate at 165mph, 2500rpm and +5 boost is about 2000ft per min.

This is from memory, so some specific mph/RoC figs may be slightly off. But don't fly your plane at max performance everywhere at all times. It wouldn't happen in real life, so it shouldn't happen in the game. :)

Very helpful, thanks.