Congratulations Jaguar!!!

[baronWastelan]

Wow! What a looooong way Jaguar have come in the past 30 years. Now tied with Porsche at #2 in 2012 Initial Quality Survey.

---snip---
2012 IQS Ranking Highlights
Lexus is the highest-ranked nameplate in the industry for a second consecutive year, averaging 73 PP100. With 75 PP100 each, Jaguar and Porsche follow Lexus in a tie to rank second. Jaguar posts the largest improvement in the study--reducing problems by 39 PP100 and vaulting from the 20th rank position in 2011. Cadillac (80 PP100) and Honda (83 PP100) round out the top five rank positions.
---snip---

J.D. Power and Associates Report (http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/quality-press-release.htm)

[swiss]

As former huge Jaguar fan, I'm sorry to see what those curry fingers have done to it.
Sales may have increased but the product itself makes my vomit.
The comparison with Lexus in the regard is quite entertaining.

[grawl]

I thought you were speaking of the Jaguar PLANE :(

Much more stylish than any sport luxury expensive car you can get :grin:
http://www.controleradar.org/data6/avion-jaguar-chad.jpg

[JG52Krupi]

I'd like to congratulate MacDonalds for beating Burger King and Wendies into place and Glaxo-SmithKline for satisfying so many patients over the years despite other attempts to make money from the likes of Beechams. Both were once minnow companies struggling hard, and now they are right at the top making loads of cash. Well done!

Does anybody else have any multinational corporations they'd like to congratulate?



As former huge Jaguar fan, I'm sorry to see what those curry fingers have done to it.
Sales may have increased but the product itself makes my vomit.
The comparison with Lexus in the regard is quite entertaining.

Are you both blind or have I missed the point? Baron posted about quality not about fiscal matters, surely it's a good thing that they are trying to improve the cars for the drivers?

[swiss]

Are you both blind or have I missed the point? Baron posted about quality not about fiscal matters, surely it's a good thing that they are trying to improve the cars for the drivers?

Quality was never bad, but now they are butt ugly.




one of the ugliest cars ever built:
http://www.swotti.com/tmp/swotti/cacheBGFUY2LHIHROZXNPCW==QXV0B21VDGLVBI1DYXJZ/imglancia%20thesis1.jpg

vs

http://image.motortrend.com/f/26046168+w750/112_0907_18z+2010_jaguar_XJ+rear_view.jpg


http://static.pagenstecher.de/uploads/c/c8/c86/c862/2006-jaguar-xj.jpg

vs.
http://data.motor-talk.de/data/galleries/0/73/1160/41405060/jaguar-xj-2010-1024x768-wallpaper-07-7349741211315646699.jpg

stale, cheap, wannabe attitude, fugly.
Reminds me of a nip car.

[Sternjaeger II]

you probably never sat in the new XJ SuperSport or Luxury...

We're talking Bentley feel, not to mention the monstrous V8...

[brando]

Jaguar started to lose their appeal, for me, after the Mk 2 was dropped. The E-type was was pretty cool but fetched silly prices in the secondhand market. The XJ6 was a tart's car - and it all went downhill from there.
After my 3.4 went West, I bought a well-used 1953 Bristol 403 and renovated it. It was a pleasure to drive back then.
I can't help agreeing with swiss - that new model is just ugly. I saw one a month ago and I just couldn't relate the badge to the car.

[Strike]

This will make your jag look sweet again.

I can't believe you guys, as far as ugly cars, it is nowhere near touching this piece of turd-in-your-eyes.
http://pictures.topspeed.com/IMG/crop/200511/2002-fiat-multipla_800x0w.jpg

http://www.varbak.com/grafika/fiat-multipla-bordowy-zdj%C4%99cia-nb26065.jpg

Looks like someone messed up the design in photoshop by a bad copy-paste job and decided to go for it.

[swiss]

you probably never sat in the new XJ SuperSport or Luxury...

We're talking Bentley feel, not to mention the monstrous V8...

We have always owned Jags, my old Lord even owns(or owned) a PV JY°1.
The interior of the hasn't changed at all, they were always like this.
However, I care more about the exterior.
If you get up in the morning and the 1st sight of transportation choice makes you wanna vomit, something is wrong.
Those new pos' look like audis, everybody can like, afford, be friends with.
Nothing left of the old; class, style, supremacy.

[Sternjaeger II]

We have always owned Jags, my old Lord even owns(or owned) a PV JY°1.
The interior of the hasn't changed at all, they were always like this.
However, I care more about the exterior.
If you get up in the morning and the 1st sight of transportation choice makes you wanna vomit, something is wrong.
Those new pos' look like audis, everybody can like, afford, be friends with.
Nothing left of the old; class, style, supremacy.

Fair enough, they don't look that eye catching anymore, but the XJ has quite the presence in person: the massive alloys put my 18" to shame! I like the massive front grille too, but that's pretty much it to be honest.. the interior though is nothing short of a luxury resort!

[WTE_Galway]

Proper jag ...

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3L_NJ8J0Y_8/TvORCyC_xvI/AAAAAAAAHa4/VTLN2253pF0/s1600/jaguar+ss+100.jpg

[baronWastelan]

There are benefits to driving a vehicle that isn't excessively attractive, and doesn't attract too much class envy, especially for owners who spend most of their time enjoying it motion, i.e. in the driver's seat.

[Bewolf]

There are benefits to driving a vehicle that isn't excessively attractive, and doesn't attract too much class envy, especially for owners who spend most of their time enjoying it motion, i.e. in the driver's seat.

Looks like asian cars are the perfect fit for you, then. Medicore looks, great engeneering.

[Sternjaeger II]

Looks like asian cars are the perfect fit for you, then. Medicore looks, great engeneering.

hahahaha!!! :mrgreen:

[Ploughman]

A bloke I know let me have a waz in his Sovereign XKR about a month ago, the thing weighs over two tons and looks like an old man's car but got to 60mph from a standing start in 4.2 seconds, it was like strapping a rocket motor to an arm chair. As the only other cars I've ever driven are family panzers and a Suzuki Swift I was easy to impress with a hot rod like that but the thing was class. I'm glad Jag's doing well and have dealt with their reputation for being somewhat fragile.

[baronWastelan]

Looks like asian cars are the perfect fit for you, then. Medicore looks, great engeneering.

There's only one new car that I've sat in that I like which meets those criteria, and it's made in Fremont, California. Is that close enough to "asian"? :)

[Bewolf]

There's only one new car that I've sat in that I like which meets those criteria, and it's made in Fremont, California. Is that close enough to "asian"? :)

Link or it does not exist ; )

[swiss]

Link or it does not exist ; )

Tesla.
thx google...

[baronWastelan]

swiss takes the bonus round!
Now back to topic.

Are you the right fit for a Jaguar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tyj9VMhE6oI

[ATAG_Bliss]

The standing mile record in the street legal class has been dominated by the Ford GT since it's production. The reason being - there isn't a single car manufacturer on the planet that builds a better performing engine on the planet in factory trim.

The Ford GT has a measly 500hp at the flywheel in stock trim. The street legal class allows you to use any power adder you like but the long block (the engine internals) must remain bone stock.

This year they've pushed the bone stock 5.4L into 2000HP to once again claim the standing mile record @ 257mph.

You wouldn't believe how week Ferrari, Lambos, Jags, Buggati', AM's, Porche's drivetrains are in comparison. We're talking about a 30% increase in power and they would blow up on the dyno. The GT, on the other hand, has over a 400% increase in power and is safe. You just can't beat an American V8. That's why I use em ;)

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/03/26/ford-gt-sets-standing-mile-record-at-257-mph/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcO8jg9qUE&feature=player_embedded

and a fun one showing the earliest twin turbo adaptation to the GT. That car eventually got to 1500RWHP on pump gas.

Pretty cool watch back in 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kgK2DlEhZw

And new Jags suck. Absolutely no character and slow as hell.

[HeavyHemi]

The standing mile record in the street legal class has been dominated by the Ford GT since it's production. The reason being - there isn't a single car manufacturer on the planet that builds a better performing engine on the planet in factory trim.

The Ford GT has a measly 500hp at the flywheel in stock trim. The street legal class allows you to use any power adder you like but the long block (the engine internals) must remain bone stock.

This year they've pushed the bone stock 5.4L into 2000HP to once again claim the standing mile record @ 257mph.

You wouldn't believe how week Ferrari, Lambos, Jags, Buggati', AM's, Porche's drivetrains are in comparison. We're talking about a 30% increase in power and they would blow up on the dyno. The GT, on the other hand, has over a 400% increase in power and is safe. You just can't beat an American V8. That's why I use em ;)

http://www.foxnews.com/leisure/2012/03/26/ford-gt-sets-standing-mile-record-at-257-mph/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcO8jg9qUE&feature=player_embedded

and a fun one showing the earliest twin turbo adaptation to the GT. That car eventually got to 1500RWHP on pump gas.

Pretty cool watch back in 2006.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kgK2DlEhZw

And new Jags suck. Absolutely no character and slow as hell.
"bone stock" eh? Not even close.

[ATAG_Bliss]

"bone stock" eh? Not even close.

The Long block (engine internals - heads, cams, rods, crank, pistons, valves/valve train) are 100% OEM Ford. If you read that's what I said is bone stock - and yes, it is.

What don't you understand? Do you not know what the definition of a power adder is? (blower, turbo, nitrous)

Edit: and that's what the class rules are for the standing mile record in the street class. Any power adder or combination of power adder(s) but the long block (engine block and internals) must remain 100% stock. If I remember correctly, the fuel system minus the injectors must remain factory as well to compete. And if you read the description of the youtube video it'll tell you the same thing

And to quote it so maybe you'll understand this time:

Joe's 2005 Ford GT was the first ever car to be successfully twin turbocharged, making over 1000 whp on a completely OEM, stock & original engine + fuel system. Watch as a team of collaborators design, fabricate, assemble and tune one of the fastest, most reliable street cars with virtually no "Modded Ford GT" history available to them.

[HeavyHemi]

The Long block (engine internals - heads, cams, rods, crank, pistons, valves/valve train) are 100% OEM Ford. If you read that's what I said is bone stock - and yes, it is.

What don't you understand? Do you not know what the definition of a power adder is? (blower, turbo, nitrous)

Edit: and that's what the class rules are for the standing mile record in the street class. Any power adder or combination of power adder(s) but the long block (engine block and internals) must remain 100% stock. If I remember correctly, the fuel system minus the injectors must remain factory as well to compete. And if you read the description of the youtube video it'll tell you the same thing

And to quote it so maybe you'll understand this time:

Yes maybe you'll understand...


That record now stands at a verified 257.7 miles per hour reached in one mile, a full 4.6 miles per hour faster than before. Kennedy arrived at that speed in a Ford GT that’s received more than its fair share of modifications. Hennessey Performance’s (http://wot.motortrend.com/hennessey-extracts-800-horsepower-from-mclaren-mp4-12c-163889.html) John Hennessey tells us that the record-setting GT is motivated by the same 5.4-liter V-8 engine block as a stock Ford GT, but it’s been extensively changed with new innards like pistons and crankshaft. Hennessey also swapped out the stock car’s supercharger for a pair of Precision turbochargers, which make a combined 34 psi of boost. Put it together and John says it “would conservatively make 2000 horsepower to reach that kind of speed.”
Read more: http://wot.motortrend.com/video-find-twin-turbo-ford-gt-breaks-standing-mile-world-record-at-texas-mile-183471.html#ixzz1ylCYhMeP

[ATAG_Bliss]

You're right. I thought the street legal class didn't allow internal modifications. It's the class below that "internal production class".

Either way, 1500rwhp has been made on 100% bone stock factory internals. Many companies sell GT TT kits with tune, all bolt on. No other manufacturer can make that kind of increase over stock with factory internals. That's my point. Hopefully it'll make sense now. The 2nd video, which I already explained, has factory internals and fuel system. Part 2 of that video shows the car making over 1500rwhp all in "bone stock" trim. Hopefully that'll help understand what I'm trying to say.

[Sternjaeger II]

all good on a straight line...

[baronWastelan]

Ford doesn't care enough about the Ford GT to make them anymore, so, as good as it is, it's an automotive dead-end. How about a new thread: Great Obsolete Cars.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Ford doesn't care enough about the Ford GT to make them anymore, so, as good as it is, it's an automotive dead-end. How about a new thread: Great Obsolete Cars.

It has nothing to do about Ford caring about how good it is or was. Ford does things like this every once in a while to show off.

It's kinda like when Enzo (Ferrari) was going to sell Ferrari to Ford and backed out at the last second. Henry basically got pissed off and said, "ok - I'll show them Ferrari bastards" and built a car that won LeMans (totally dominated by Ferrari at the time) 4 years straight, just out of spite. They stopped production of the GT40 and stopped in LeMans, but Ford's little stunt will always be a little reminder to Ferrari that the colonists can still make a car that A.) turns and B.) kicks your ass for less than 1/2 the money.

And the engine in the, as you say, "dead" GT can be bought directly from Ford along with about any other modular engine they make. The 5.4L that's in the GT shares many things with what's in a Shelby or even a Crown Victoria. That's why they call it the mod motor. It's parts swap heaven. I have a few friends running the Ford GT engine from FRPP (Ford Racing Performance Parts) with a twin turbo setup in their mustangs. It's actually one of the things on the rise now as it's about as reliable as a setup with ridiculous horsepower than money can buy and you can get 30mpg out of it.

[Sternjaeger II]

[...] but Ford's little stunt will always be a little reminder to Ferrari that the colonists can still make a car that A.) turns and B.) kicks your ass for less than 1/2 the money.

could make... It's a different philosophy for different driving styles and roads, but the thrill of massive torque acceleration will never be as exhilarating as brushing perfect bends around the Nurburgring circuit.

You can have a fast car, but there's always the off chance of someone having a faster car than you. You don't need to be a good driver, you just need a bigger wallet.

A well balanced car will give you endless entertainment for decades and teach you a lot about handling and performance driving.

I bet that if you ask to most of them "drivers" how's their heel-and-toe they'd probably look puzzled at their own foot ;)

[swiss]

but the thrill of massive torque acceleration will never be as exhilarating as brushing perfect bends around the Nurburgring circuit.


Makes me wish I had the cash for one of the new Cadillacs.:cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxLCw-S3al4&feature=player_embedded#


edit:
I bet that if you ask to most of them "drivers" how's their heel-and-toe they'd probably look puzzled at their own foot

I expect transmissions with manual clutch to gone in about 10yrs. Although they are lots of fun.
Maybe you should ask them about left foot braking.

[Sternjaeger II]

Makes me wish I had the cash for one of the new Cadillacs.:cool:

oh puh-leaaase!!! :rolleyes:

I expect transmissions with manual clutch to gone in about 10yrs. Although they are lots of fun.
Maybe you should ask them about left foot braking.
I honestly doubt it.

[Welshman]

Jag is cool , i have an S-type diesel was really going to get a Type R but my head took over but tbh its quite fast for an oil burner . though its parked up for sale atm because now im driving a porsche 996 of all things thread related lol ..

[ATAG_Bliss]

could make... It's a different philosophy for different driving styles and roads, but the thrill of massive torque acceleration will never be as exhilarating as brushing perfect bends around the Nurburgring circuit.

You can have a fast car, but there's always the off chance of someone having a faster car than you. You don't need to be a good driver, you just need a bigger wallet.

A well balanced car will give you endless entertainment for decades and teach you a lot about handling and performance driving.

I bet that if you ask to most of them "drivers" how's their heel-and-toe they'd probably look puzzled at their own foot ;)

I've had both. Used to race in the SCCA and before that mini sprints. Most of my family has roots deep into turn racing. A cousin races in Nascar. 2 others race in the World of Outlaws.

But there's nothing more exhillerating than driving a car that can kill you anytime you press the go button. Many people have had good cornering cars. Heck you can buy some decent ones directly from the manufacturer. There's absolutely no excitement to that unless I'm racing.

But I build cars to blow people's doors off in roads you see on the street. Driving an SCCA car on the street is boring as hell. But take out something that'll light up the tires at 100mph on the street and that's fun. Take you're high cornering lambo's, bmw's, ferraris, etc., in every day street driving and I will embarrass them. Take those cars to a track and sure, I'll probably lose unless I changed the chassis up a bit. But for the street, a cornering car is absolutely worthless, at least in the US, where 90% of our roads you could fall asleep going 70mph on as they are all straight. I love that guy driving his ferrari that hears my exhaust as I'm creeping up next to him. Then you hear that high reving ferrari wind up and mid life crises ferrari dude's smile immediatley turns into disbelief when I happen to do the same with my car and literally watch him disappear in my rear window in a matter of seconds. That's what every day driving is. That's exhileration on a daily basis. Even funner when you blow the doors off someone driving a 9000lb diesel truck that's faster in the straight line than 99% of most production cars made. That's down right hillarious.

[baronWastelan]

Jag is cool , i have an S-type diesel was really going to get a Type R but my head took over but tbh its quite fast for an oil burner . though its parked up for sale atm because now im driving a porsche 996 of all things thread related lol ..
Oh this is intriguing. Would also like to know what other Jags (or MG or Triumph or Lotus) and/or other Porsches have you owned, if any?

P.S. I went from MG to Porsche.

[WTE_Galway]

But there's nothing more exhillerating than driving a car that can kill you anytime you press the go button.

I had one of those. It was a 1960 Vauxhall Victor with intermittent braking and seemingly random steering.

[Sternjaeger II]

I've had both. Used to race in the SCCA and before that mini sprints. Most of my family has roots deep into turn racing. A cousin races in Nascar. 2 others race in the World of Outlaws.

But there's nothing more exhillerating than driving a car that can kill you anytime you press the go button. Many people have had good cornering cars. Heck you can buy some decent ones directly from the manufacturer. There's absolutely no excitement to that unless I'm racing.

But I build cars to blow people's doors off in roads you see on the street. Driving an SCCA car on the street is boring as hell. But take out something that'll light up the tires at 100mph on the street and that's fun. Take you're high cornering lambo's, bmw's, ferraris, etc., in every day street driving and I will embarrass them. Take those cars to a track and sure, I'll probably lose unless I changed the chassis up a bit. But for the street, a cornering car is absolutely worthless, at least in the US, where 90% of our roads you could fall asleep going 70mph on as they are all straight. I love that guy driving his ferrari that hears my exhaust as I'm creeping up next to him. Then you hear that high reving ferrari wind up and mid life crises ferrari dude's smile immediatley turns into disbelief when I happen to do the same with my car and literally watch him disappear in my rear window in a matter of seconds. That's what every day driving is. That's exhileration on a daily basis. Even funner when you blow the doors off someone driving a 9000lb diesel truck that's faster in the straight line than 99% of most production cars made. That's down right hillarious.

LOL well allow me to say that you're not much better than the "midlife crisis dudes" you boy race against ;)
Tweaking a car's engine to make it go fast doesn't make you a good driver nor your car a good car, just something that goes very fast on a straight line, and you will always find someone who has a faster car than you.. we Europeans believe in the combination of a well balanced car and skilled driver, that's why we find your drag racing so puerile ;)

You can have a 1000hp Ford GT which is still going to be a POS car, whilst a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo a refined engineering marvels that outperform muscle cars easily, all you need is a bit of rain and a couple of bends and you're a spec on the rearview mirror.

Power without control is worthless to me, but then, each to their own really..

[ATAG_Bliss]

LOL well allow me to say that you're not much better than the "midlife crisis dudes" you boy race against ;)
Tweaking a car's engine to make it go fast doesn't make you a good driver nor your car a good car, just something that goes very fast on a straight line, and you will always find someone who has a faster car than you.. we Europeans believe in the combination of a well balanced car and skilled driver, that's why we find your drag racing so puerile ;)

You can have a 1000hp Ford GT which is still going to be a POS car, whilst a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo a refined engineering marvels that outperform muscle cars easily, all you need is a bit of rain and a couple of bends and you're a spec on the rearview mirror.

Power without control is worthless to me, but then, each to their own really..

The assumption you make is that my cars won't handle. That's a typical stereotype from the European crowd who doesn't know what a real wide road is. We street race here. We do it all the time. It's also as if you assume that we build some sort of high end race motor and the suspension and chassis is what came on a factory build. As I said, I've raced in mini sprints and had an SCCA car. I know well enough about cornering. I wouldn't have the slightest worry about any junk euro supercar on the streets in the US. And me being a speck on the windshield? LOL..

The engineering thing is pretty laughable as well. I'm sure the engineering feats in being able to corner or power/weight ratio etc., surely out weigh being able to take 7500HP, and make it go 330mph in just over 3 seconds. RIIiiight!

As far as the ability to drive, you sound like someone that has never driven a fast or well performing car. It's, as I would call it "BORING AS SHIT" to drive something like an M5, CLK600 etc. I mean seriously, I would rather poke my eye balls out than drive such a travesty of absolute blah. I'm pretty sure unless you've tried to tame a 2000HP street car your silly little 200-400hp car that can only go around corners is like the equivalent to riding a bicycle to a guy like me. Please never say something as stupid as "you learn how to drive" by driving a car that corners better. You learn how to REALLY drive while driving a car that can bite you in the ass with the littlest of mistakes.

As usual on this forum, a guy that probably doesn't even own a car let alone has ever probably had a car worth racing - your 4 cylinder golf gti doesn't count, is trying to tell a gear head, a guy that drives cars with 2500hp on the street, how to drive. Please. Your little shitboxes make me laugh.

[Outlaw]

You can have a 1000hp Ford GT which is still going to be a POS car, whilst a Ferrari, Porsche or Lambo a refined engineering marvels that outperform muscle cars easily...


First, calling a Ford GT a muscle car is just a plain stupid thing to say.

Beyond that...

You're correct if your definition of an, "engineering marvel", is a car that requires a $5k+ engine out service every 15k miles or 3 years. Admittedly I'm not up on the newer ones so they may be a little better but, still, there's not much engineering marvel in them. They are simply race engines and suspensions with a crappy car wrapped around them. Admittedly the 328 and older are smokin' hot to look at (the newer ones are really bland IMO), but, that's about it.

GM's stock 2 liter turbo Ecotec engine has as much torque as a 3.5 liter Ferrari 355 engine. The difference is the Ecotec produces it at 2600 rpm while the Ferrari needs 6000 rpm. With a $600 ECM reflash that does not void the factory warranty the Ecotec will produce 290 bhp and 340 ft-lbs of torque (as much torque as a Ferrari 430 at less RPM).

My turbo Ecotec has 35k miles on it with no issues (although I have replaced the tires already).

Anyone can make a race engine that's design life is one race (or 15k miles at 500 miles/month) and slap it into a car with ridiculous maintenance requirements

An engineering marvel is a solid engine that lasts.

Now don't get me wrong, my next toy car will probably be a Ferrari, but, they are not, "engineering marvels", by any stretch of the imagination.

And just for the record, a Laguna Seca Mustang handles at 1.03g (as compared to the 1.02g of a 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia).

--Outlaw.

[Outlaw]

A little more on topic...

My old man had a Jaguar roadster (late '50s model I think) that was just awful. It required constant attention and maintenance. IIRC, carb. and valve adjustments were frequent issues and, of course, overheating here in the hot and humid southern US.

He did love it though until he got hauled to jail for speeding. Evidently 50mph over the speed limit was a ticket straight to jail. My grandfather on my mother's side (DETECTIVE grandfather that is) had to bail him out. The Jag was sold shortly thereafter. If he had kept it, I would have a different mother!

--Outlaw.

P.S.
Yes, he regrets pulling over but, he was afraid of breaking the car if he tried to run.

[Sternjaeger II]

The assumption you make is that my cars won't handle. That's a typical stereotype from the European crowd who doesn't know what a real wide road is. We street race here. We do it all the time. It's also as if you assume that we build some sort of high end race motor and the suspension and chassis is what came on a factory build. As I said, I've raced in mini sprints and had an SCCA car. I know well enough about cornering. I wouldn't have the slightest worry about any junk euro supercar on the streets in the US. And me being a speck on the windshield? LOL..

yeah I'm sure you're the new Andretti ;)
What's your ride anyway?

The engineering thing is pretty laughable as well. I'm sure the engineering feats in being able to corner or power/weight ratio etc., surely out weigh being able to take 7500HP, and make it go 330mph in just over 3 seconds. RIIiiight!

we have jets for that, that's not driving, it's being ballast.


As far as the ability to drive, you sound like someone that has never driven a fast or well performing car.

I have, but obviously we have a different understanding and concept of "well performing car". To me a well performing car is something that has been researched on, tuned and designed to be versatile (and it's not just with euro cars, I find the Nissan GTR the most remarkable car one can buy at the moment); to you a well performing car doesn't even necessarily need a steering wheel..

It's, as I would call it "BORING AS SHIT" to drive something like an M5, CLK600 etc. I mean seriously, I would rather poke my eye balls out than drive such a travesty of absolute blah.

you didn't pick particularly nice cars, but do yourself a favour and try an Audi R8 or a Carrera GT. I would suggest you get a chance to try a Ferrari 599 XX Evo and then come back to this thread, but normally the Fezzas you get in the States are the hairdresser models, not the real deal. Uh or a Ferrari FXX.


I'm pretty sure unless you've tried to tame a 2000HP street car your silly little 200-400hp car that can only go around corners is like the equivalent to riding a bicycle to a guy like me. Please never say something as stupid as "you learn how to drive" by driving a car that corners better. You learn how to REALLY drive while driving a car that can bite you in the ass with the littlest of mistakes.

how would you know? Admittedly you only drive on a straight line with your 2000hp bathtub..
Wrestling a 2000hp car around a bend doesn't mean you're good, it means you're driving a badly balanced car conceived to do something else designed by monkeys who follow the laughable American standards of "quality" and "performance".. and talking of American standards, shall we talk about the quality of materials and finish on American cars? We'd better not..


As usual on this forum, a guy that probably doesn't even own a car let alone has ever probably had a car worth racing - your 4 cylinder golf gti doesn't count, is trying to tell a gear head, a guy that drives cars with 2500hp on the street, how to drive. Please. Your little shitboxes make me laugh.

I don't think I can teach you to drive on a straight line any better than what you already do. You see, the problem boils down to the "performance anxiety" you lot seem to suffer: you're too afraid of competing on equal levels, so you need to shelter yourself behind a "better at something" car.

I have no pretence of being good on drag racing on a 2500hp dragsters (which seems to increase in power every minute according to your descriptions) cos I've never done it, but you said you have racing experience, then I wonder how well you would perform if we raced with the same car, say that little silly Golf GTI you mentioned...








...you know how to use a manual gearbox, right? ;)

[ATAG_Bliss]

I'm not gonna quote train and pick apart all the non sense you just typed. Do you even know what sprint cars are? Do you know what the SCCA is? You think a mustang is bathtub? You are beyond clueless. You probably don't even own a car let alone have the know how to build or fabricate something from the ground up.

You obviously aren't a car guy. We drive performance cars on the street because we like to build what manufacturers don't for some very obvious reasons. I wouldn't even think about selling something I've built to an uneducated or inexperienced driver, someone like yourself for instance. It would make them piss their pants when they pressed go button. Also, as you so adeptly seemed to miss, I could make any one of my mustangs corner well enough to keep up with just about anything ever made let alone when it went straight again. It's amazing what you can fabricate when you know what you're doing. A BSME helps, but not much. Most is learned the hard way. The whole "fun" with guys like us, guys that like to jump out of planes, and the rest of the adrenaline junkies is trying to control something that can never be controlled. Unless you're a car guy, and I mean someone that builds cars, not the douchebags that buy cars and pay some other idiot to install parts and change their oil - real passionate car guys, such as the guys on Top Gear, who know the joy in having a car you correct the steering with the gas pedal, you'll never understand.

And manual gear box? I've used anything from T45's, 3550's, Lenco CS1s 4 and 5 speeds, GF 5rs, Jericos, T5's, T56's, TKO 500s/600s, Top loaders, M22s.

I'm pretty sure I know how to shift: This was a liberty T5 (a reworked stock mustang tranny) all out of a little 302 with .500 lift, 58cc combustion chambers, dual plane intake, and a 650 holley. Basically not that far from a stocker.

http://vimeo.com/5558243


As far as my rides: Roughly 2600rwhp

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4650/photo4tn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/photo4tn.jpg/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8791/photo5yz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/photo5yz.jpg/)

I have another sn95 with 1038rwhp. Has a 331 and a single turbo. I also have another sn95 with a 342 and a T Trim - has just over 700 at the rear wheels (just bought this one and have the motor out now). My F250 diesel (what I pull the cars with makes 1400ftlbs of torque and right at 700HP at the wheels). My F150 that I just finished fabricated a turbo for (5.4L 3v) should make around 500 at the wheels still needs tuned. I have a 69 chevy C20, a 68 camaro in pieces, a 79 Chevy K20 400/400 combo, and my favorite a 79 Ford Fiesta (not festiva). Oh and I have an old squad car (2003 crown vic interceptor) I bought to do something stupid with at a later date.

[ATAG_Dutch]

I'm loving this. Bliss is getting to know my old friend Sternjaeger. Choice! :grin:

[ATAG_Bliss]

I'm loving this. Bliss is getting to know my old friend Sternjaeger. Choice! :grin:

Yeah - I hate people that have 0 experience with what they are talking about.

I can't wait for him to show me his "builds" LOL

I figure I'll take some pics of shop so he can show me his wonderful car fabrication tools and shop where he does all his own fabrication to gain the superior vast knowledge of how to "drive a car" lmao. I'm figuring he's gonna show me a picture of a magazine. I would think that's about his only experience in any sort of serious car. Reading about it.

Oh and don't forget to show me your rides. Here's around 100k in just hand tools. The stuff required if you actually work on stuff/build stuff. I can get you pictures of the flow bench, tig, have a bridgeport as well.

I can't wait to see your shop or collection of all the amazing things you know how to drive and build.

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7293/img0387vmz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/img0387vmz.jpg/)

And when the box you put your tools in is 14k alone, they neatly put your name on it for you ;)

http://img805.imageshack.us/img805/3728/img0388ok.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/805/img0388ok.jpg/)

Oh, and here's some various car parts laying around in the shop. I've working on cars for just a touch.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2092/img0389vw.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/27/img0389vw.jpg/)

Can't wait to see your shop and all the wonderful knowledge you've learned from building some very cool cars. The excitement is hard to contain!! I love talking to people that think they know something about cars and the only thing they've ever even think they've been taught is from some editor of a magazine. Pure class.

[ElAurens]

I bought a well-used 1953 Bristol 403

I've always wanted a Bristol, but they are quite rare on my side of the Atlantic. Now I understand they are gone? Or off to China or some such nonsense? (Yes there are Americans that understand about Bristols...)

As to all this talk of numbers and time to speed, etc...


Pfffftttt...


I've driven fast cars that were boring and slow cars that were incredibly entertaining. I drove a 1923 Model T Ford touring car this morning that is certainly anything but fast, and it put a huge smile on my face. Because it was fun, and fun is not defined merely by the numbers a car can generate on the track. I also had our 1956 Lotus XI Le Mans out on the side street next to our museum today, getting ready for the Monterey Historics in August. All of 1460cc and 118bhp, and it was an utter blast.

I guess I've always taken a more cerebral approach to motoring.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I agree with you El. Horsepower is just an addiction. Once you have it you gotta have more and more and more.

I once bought an old xj12. It was right hand drive, didn't run, but the body/interior was decent. Can't exactly remember the year, but I know I paid $300 for it. Finally got it to run. I just remember all the crap I had to make for the engine. Previous owner had taken it apart to try to fix it himself, so along with a box of "goodies" was a whole bunch of broken bolts, vacuum hoses, wiring he'd cut with a pair of side cuts etc. Then I found out the transmission was junk. Wouldn't go backwards. Direct clutch sun gear was completely broken out of the drum (a coat hanger and a torch to the rescue!) Went through it and finally the old girl was on the road albeit it would vapor lock after about 50 miles all the damn time. Not much fun driving a RH drive car in the states, but it definitely got a lot of looks. But it was a driver car. I wasn't whipping donuts in that thing.

[ATAG_Dutch]

All of 1460cc and 118bhp, and it was an utter blast.

Shit El, mine's a 1600 and gets the same bhp and it doesn't matter whether I'm going to the supermarket or hooning down a sunny country road, I always have a smile on my face.

It's the kind of car that people snigger at until they've driven one. Especially in the land of endless straight roads followed by a 90 degree bend followed by endless straight roads etc.

But I think it's pretty good, and an ideal replacement since I packed in riding bikes. I can put the soft-top down, trundle down the lane and smell the summertime blossoms. I also get hit in the face by wayward bees. but I can live with that after open face helmets.

Anyrode up, time for bed. See you chaps! :)

[Sternjaeger II]

First, calling a Ford GT a muscle car is just a plain stupid thing to say.


oh isn't it? And what is it then? An exotic car? A supercar? It's just a piece of expensive muscle car, and that's how it's treated by owners like the gentleman of a few pages before. Automotive stupidity. Further evidence of that is that Jeremy Clarkson bought it (and had endless problems with it until he decided to sell it).

Beyond that...

You're correct if your definition of an, "engineering marvel", is a car that requires a $5k+ engine out service every 15k miles or 3 years. Admittedly I'm not up on the newer ones so they may be a little better but, still, there's not much engineering marvel in them. They are simply race engines and suspensions with a crappy car wrapped around them. Admittedly the 328 and older are smokin' hot to look at (the newer ones are really bland IMO), but, that's about it.

GM's stock 2 liter turbo Ecotec engine has as much torque as a 3.5 liter Ferrari 355 engine. The difference is the Ecotec produces it at 2600 rpm while the Ferrari needs 6000 rpm. With a $600 ECM reflash that does not void the factory warranty the Ecotec will produce 290 bhp and 340 ft-lbs of torque (as much torque as a Ferrari 430 at less RPM).

My turbo Ecotec has 35k miles on it with no issues (although I have replaced the tires already).

Anyone can make a race engine that's design life is one race (or 15k miles at 500 miles/month) and slap it into a car with ridiculous maintenance requirements

An engineering marvel is a solid engine that lasts.

Now don't get me wrong, my next toy car will probably be a Ferrari, but, they are not, "engineering marvels", by any stretch of the imagination.

And just for the record, a Laguna Seca Mustang handles at 1.03g (as compared to the 1.02g of a 2010 Ferrari 458 Italia).

--Outlaw.

LOL all that palava and then you're gonna get yourself a Ferrari?! Brilliant :lol:

[Sternjaeger II]

lol Bliss, you're doing exactly what I was talking about, you're measuring your driving skills on how long your list of tools is or how fast your car goes (allegedly...). That still doesn't make you a better driver than me. And to be honest I'm not in for a race with you man, my point was that your sort of addiction (as you defined it yourself) is just a translation of your small penis syndrome into having something that goes faster than people that can afford better cars than yours.

Some words about my experience: I don't have an alleged racing pedigree as you do, but my family has always been one of petrolheads. We regularly had Porsches, Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, BMW and Mercs in our garages, plus the odd British Morgan or Mini, and we all liked doing bit of tinkering with them. My uncle worked for Snap-On and that meant we always had a lot of quality tools around, nothing too fancy (I think the biggest piece of technology we had was a lathe!), but enough to do our own maintenance/experimenting etc...

I did some racing in my younger years, but it was amateur stuff really, done for the fun of it on mono-brand championship (where you measure the driver's skill, so the winner is not the team with more money, but the one with the good driver, all in all it's a sport), and boy did it teach me a lot!

At the moment I'm driving an Alfa Romeo Brera (had another one and swapped it for a 3.2 V6). It's 320hp (stock setup is 265), AWD and a pure joy to drive (and looks fantastic!). Then (and that hopefully shows that I am a real all rounder) I'm about to acquire a '68 Mustang with a stock V8, because I can also appreciate American classic cars for their beauty.

If I want to race I just go see a couple of friends of mine down at a place called Silverstone (I'm sure you might have heard of it..) where I can try the latest performance cars that they have available at their club and thrash mine around (talking of which, I just bought and installed a new set of brakes, pads and hoses for it, EBC Red Stuff is amazing! But I'm sure you'll tell me you probably forge your own discs right?).

So I think of myself as an all rounder, that can sit on a performance car or factory spec saloon and know how to drive it properly. Learning about stuff like the quirks of slip-diff or performance driving (the aforementioned heel-and-toe which you probably never used..) is what makes a good driver; wobbling your steering wheel left and right trying to keep straight a car that was not designed to put down all that power ("the thrill of being killed", seriously??) is just stupid and irresponsible, because I'm sure you do your fair share of racing mainly on roads..

So the crass, puerile, irresponsible driving of your kind is something I will never understand.

You drive a fugly piece of trailer park junk with a ridiculous bonnet and feel like the new Andretti, and you know what, good for you, we normally laugh at your delusional kind, but don't come around trying to teach me what makes a good driver, cos you certainly ain't one, especially cos you don't seem to understand that

1) it's not all about going on a straight line.
2) it's not about winning, it's about having fun. You sound like the Charlie Sheen of automotive delusion.

[scottnmegs]

I appreciate any car that is done right, however I would love to see a car such as 2500hp Mustang registered?? Definately not here in Australia, I would be waiting with defect book in hand! wink..wink..

A lovely car nonetheless, this is a real drivers car Datsun 1600/510, I am currently doing one up from a rusty old wreck, 100k on tools?? I can manage on about 3k? Biggest wallet, if I had a unlimited budget I would just go buy new Nissan GTR and just drive it, not talk about how good I am when I drive it.

Any car is good, just drive it!

[swiss]

100k on tools?? I can manage on about 3k?

Decent quality has it's price, those trollies alone are ~$1000 a piece.
It's also a matter of what exactly you want to do, for changing oil and tires 3k should easily do...

(If I were Bliss I'd keep the shop a tad cleaner and tidier tho, lol)

[Skoshi Tiger]

I appreciate any car that is done right, however I would love to see a car such as 2500hp Mustang registered?? Definately not here in Australia, I would be waiting with defect book in hand! wink..wink..

A lovely car nonetheless, this is a real drivers car Datsun 1600/510, I am currently doing one up from a rusty old wreck, 100k on tools?? I can manage on about 3k? Biggest wallet, if I had a unlimited budget I would just go buy new Nissan GTR and just drive it, not talk about how good I am when I drive it.

Any car is good, just drive it!

OMG!!!! a Dado!

Six or so years ago The WA Charger Club went down to the Collie power house sprint track, One of the guys took his Dado down and put her around the track as a bit of fun.

Unfortunately he hit the gravel and rolled it and it turned out to be the beasts last trip!

It's good to see one looking so nice! :)

[Sternjaeger II]

I appreciate any car that is done right, however I would love to see a car such as 2500hp Mustang registered?? Definately not here in Australia, I would be waiting with defect book in hand! wink..wink..

A lovely car nonetheless, this is a real drivers car Datsun 1600/510, I am currently doing one up from a rusty old wreck, 100k on tools?? I can manage on about 3k? Biggest wallet, if I had a unlimited budget I would just go buy new Nissan GTR and just drive it, not talk about how good I am when I drive it.

Any car is good, just drive it!

Sweet! That looks so much like the old Fiat 128! They're used a lot for racing here in Europe, although they're starting to become collectables too.

Uh and I second your thoughts ;)

[scottnmegs]

Decent quality has it's price, those trollies alone are ~$1000 a piece.
It's also a matter of what exactly you want to do, for changing oil and tires 3k should easily do...

(If I were Bliss I'd keep the shop a tad cleaner and tidier tho, lol)

I agree, decent quality has its price, if you class welding, engine rebuilding, structural modification, cutting rust out and basically building car from ground up as oil and tyre changing. Ok I probably used some bits from work, sandblaster etc.

I am a qualified marine mechanic and fitter and turner/welder.100k on tools is crazy!

If Bliss owns a shop I can appreciate the need for tools and quality, tools dont make the tradesman though! Bliss this is by no means a go at you, If I had access to all that I would be in heaven! Some more pics of what 3k (give or take) of tools and know how can achieve!

That was not my datto earlier, this is mine here in these pics, got a long way to go yet.

[Sternjaeger II]

you can tell a pro from how tidy his garage is. Well done there man :-)

What's the engine config on that?

[scottnmegs]

Thats only a L18 standard motor there from later model datsun, I will be building one up with a L18 with twin su's and mainly head work. Not too worried about outright power, its the suspension, seam welding the whole body etc and brakes that will get most of love. 800kg go cart!

[Outlaw]

oh isn't it? And what is it then? An exotic car? A supercar? It's just a piece of expensive muscle car, and that's how it's treated by owners like the gentleman of a few pages before. Automotive stupidity. Further evidence of that is that Jeremy Clarkson bought it (and had endless problems with it until he decided to sell it).


OK baby Enzo, what's the difference that makes a Ford GT a muscle car and a Ferrari 360 (or any other Ferrari) an "engineering marvel".

As far as reliability goes, you're just completely clueless if you think Ferraris are anything but junk (in that respect). Even thinking about stating otherwise is just the definition of ignorance. The 458 was recalled because they caught on fire all the time, the 355 MELTS exhaust manifolds, the sodium filled 308 exhaust valves crack, and the list just goes on and on.


LOL all that palava and then you're gonna get yourself a Ferrari?! Brilliant :lol:


That's the best you can do?

Next to you raaaid is a mental giant.

--Outlaw.

[Sternjaeger II]

Thats only a L18 standard motor there from later model datsun, I will be building one up with a L18 with twin su's and mainly head work. Not too worried about outright power, its the suspension, seam welding the whole body etc and brakes that will get most of love. 800kg go cart!

looks like a sweet little project you got there :)

You putting a roll cage in as well?

[Outlaw]

you can tell a pro from how tidy his garage is. Well done there man :-)

What's the engine config on that?

You're completely out of intelligent things to say so now it's down to, "your garage is dirty so you suck"?

What a joke.

--Outlaw.

[Sternjaeger II]

OK baby Enzo, what's the difference that makes a Ford GT a muscle car and a Ferrari 360 (or any other Ferrari) an "engineering marvel". [quote]

Do you have a faint idea of the engineering and research that goes into the design and engineering of a Ferrari? Not to mention the know-how and experience developed in F1?! I mean, SERIOUSLY?!

The original Ford GT was a sports car, the new one is just an expensive muscle car, and many believe (and treat them) as such, and again, ask Jeremy Clarkson if his had any problems at all...
[quote]
As far as reliability goes, you're just completely clueless if you think Ferraris are anything but junk (in that respect). Even thinking about stating otherwise is just the definition of ignorance. The 458 was recalled because they caught on fire all the time, the 355 MELTS exhaust manifolds, the sodium filled 308 exhaust valves crack, and the list just goes on and on.

It's all down to how you drive your car. Nothing's perfect, and considering how these cars are pushed to the limit it's easy that something can break. A supercar is not a kryptonite car, if anything it is more prone to stress and damage because of its very sporty nature.

That's the best you can do?

Next to you raaaid is a mental giant.

--Outlaw.

..you still haven't explained why you diss Fezzas so much but still wanna get yourself one.. I'm all ears..

[ATAG_Bliss]

lol Bliss, you're doing exactly what I was talking about, you're measuring your driving skills on how long your list of tools is or how fast your car goes (allegedly...).

No as usual you can't read very well. My driving skill and knowledge just like most things in life come from experience. I've been in some sort of motorsport racing for the majority of my life. Just a guess, but I probably know how to drive a car properly, and one could probably even assume I know how to push one to the limit.

That still doesn't make you a better driver than me.

There's no question I'm a better driver than you.

And to be honest I'm not in for a race with you man, my point was that your sort of addiction (as you defined it yourself) is just a translation of your small penis syndrome into having something that goes faster than people that can afford better cars than yours.

Once again proving that you don't know anything about cars. Small penis syndrome is the guy that spends all his money to get something ridiculous. People that build their own cars are gear heads. Again, you wouldn't understand as you don't know the 1st thing about cars.

Some words about my experience: I don't have an alleged racing pedigree as you do, but my family has always been one of petrolheads. We regularly had Porsches, Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, BMW and Mercs in our garages, plus the odd British Morgan or Mini, and we all liked doing bit of tinkering with them. My uncle worked for Snap-On and that meant we always had a lot of quality tools around, nothing too fancy (I think the biggest piece of technology we had was a lathe!), but enough to do our own maintenance/experimenting etc...

Can't wait to see the pics - lol

I did some racing in my younger years, but it was amateur stuff really, done for the fun of it on mono-brand championship (where you measure the driver's skill, so the winner is not the team with more money, but the one with the good driver, all in all it's a sport), and boy did it teach me a lot!

If you knew anything about racing at all, that's how most classes are setup. Everyone has the same rules. It never boils down to money. It's always about skill. This reigns true for drag and going round and round.

At the moment I'm driving an Alfa Romeo Brera (had another one and swapped it for a 3.2 V6)
I'm sorry.

It's 320hp (stock setup is 265), AWD and a pure joy to drive (and looks fantastic!). Then (and that hopefully shows that I am a real all rounder)

Boy, it sure does. You seem like you really know what it's a about - rolfmao

I'm about to acquire a '68 Mustang with a stock V8, because I can also appreciate American classic cars for their beauty.

I bet.

If I want to race I just go see a couple of friends of mine down at a place called Silverstone (I'm sure you might have heard of it..) where I can try the latest performance cars that they have available at their club and thrash mine around (talking of which, I just bought and installed a new set of brakes, pads and hoses for it, EBC Red Stuff is amazing! But I'm sure you'll tell me you probably forge your own discs right?).

Boy that sounds like fun. Not.

So I think of myself as an all rounder, that can sit on a performance car or factory spec saloon and know how to drive it properly. Learning about stuff like the quirks of slip-diff or performance driving (the aforementioned heel-and-toe which you probably never used..)

Well I'm glad you think you know how to drive. I honestly believe you're complete moron. I could probably lap you in a car with 1/2 the power of your own. Any gear head will know just by the way you type that you don't have the 1st clue about what you're talking about.

is what makes a good driver; wobbling your steering wheel left and right trying to keep straight a car that was not designed to put down all that power ("the thrill of being killed", seriously??) is just stupid and irresponsible, because I'm sure you do your fair share of racing mainly on roads..

That's called drag racing. I do the majority of racing at the track. Any sort of racing on the street is over in a few seconds.


So the crass, puerile, irresponsible driving of your kind is something I will never understand.

Of course you won't. Again, you'd have to be gear head to understand.

You drive a fugly piece of trailer park junk with a ridiculous bonnet and feel like the new Andretti,

Once again proving that you are an imbecile. The Ford mustang is the number 1 tuner call in the world. It has been for 30 years. Not a single car on the planet has more of an aftermarket or following. The cowl hood is needed for the engine.

and you know what, good for you, we normally laugh at your delusional kind, but don't come around trying to teach me what makes a good driver, cos you certainly ain't one, especially cos you don't seem to understand that

No certainly not. I'm sure your 100hp alfa shit box has taught you how to hop into an F1 car with ease. You sir, are an beyond stupid. You probably don't own a car. By your pure ignorance, I'd take a wild stab and imagine you and your family live in a caravan. The trailer park reference you made probably comes from your own experience.


1) it's not all about going on a straight line.
When I'm drag racing it is.

2) it's not about winning, it's about having fun. You sound like the Charlie Sheen of automotive delusion.

It's about winning. The fun part comes naturally. People don't race to lose especially when the purse is money.

[nearmiss]

I bought a vandenplas the year prior to Ford buying Jaguar. The car was a money pit.

The motor kept burning up. I replaced 3 motors at over 9,000 USD before I found a man that explained the problem.

I took it to a guy that had about 40 years experience with Jaguar. He took me into a back room about 12 x 12 feet square. In the room were six cylinder Jaguar crankshafts standing on end. There were so many of them they filled the room.

He said, "The rear main cap was cast iron and held so much heat the motor had to burn up". He said, "Put a small block chevrolet engine in the car and get on with my life". I told him I bought a Jaguar and I wouldn't change that. He advised I should then repair by align bore crank and replace bearings. Then I should drive as little as possible and give it a selling.

I paid 5,800 USD for align bore and rebuild. I traded to a dealership that got the bargain of a lifetime. LOL

The worst part of this... the guy told me Jaguar knew about the rear main problem all the time. He said they had used the same motor since WW2 and it was common knowledge among Jaguar enthusiasts.

To this day... I'll never own another Jaguar. If I were given one today by a well meaning friend I would sell it immediately.

I can't say enough bad things about Jaguar. I spent over $40,000 repairing that expensive piece of junk in 4 years I owned it. I wouldn't have any idea of what I would be saying if I had bought it used.

British pride took a beating with that dog that wouldn't hunt ... IMO.

It was the most beautiful car imaginable with the wire wheels and all. Sure was pretty sitting in my drive waiting for the tow truck to come pick it up about every 2 weeks.

--------------

I should also add:

I wouldn't trust any magazine or quality pronouncements about any car company, especially Jaguar.

The proof of quality can only be determined over time with a car.

I certainly wouldn't trust anything about Jaguar on a short term basis.

-----------------

Pssst... I woudn't have a Porshe either, since all they are now just plastic cars.

Anything newer than 87 is just trouble... the Boxster is a prime example.

[Sternjaeger II]

You're completely out of intelligent things to say so now it's down to, "your garage is dirty so you suck"?

What a joke.

--Outlaw.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Go play somewhere else kiddo. A tidy garage is rule number 1 of professional mechanics, anybody that says otherwise is an utter clown.

[ATAG_Bliss]

A tidy garage just shows you never use your garage. I clean the garage daily. But as seen in my pics, I also use it.

[Sternjaeger II]

A tidy garage just shows you never use your garage. I clean the garage daily. But as seen in my pics, I also use it.

No, a tidy garage shows that you've been professionally trained to be a mechanic, because the first thing you learn is keeping your tools, spares and materials tidy and clean. You're just a self-taught toolshed fanatic who thinks he invented the wheel.

I'm not home, but I have a couple of pics on my laptop.

The first one is my uncle's garage, he's into vintage cars and even bothered to create a suitable 50s/60s themed garage for them.

The other two are two quick shots of the garage I share with my dad, the Fezza is his (for now!!).

Look, I think you ridiculed yourself enough. You drive an old piece of junk with a powerful engine which sticks out of the bonnet and think you're a superhero, your garage looks like the scene of a bomb blast (a very expensive one too, allegedly there's $100k worth of crap!) and the HP of your car increase on every single post...

Have fun living your delusional dreams of glory of WINNING, Charlie Sheen!

[ATAG_Bliss]

I appreciate any car that is done right, however I would love to see a car such as 2500hp Mustang registered?? Definately not here in Australia, I would be waiting with defect book in hand! wink..wink..

Of course it's registered. Every car I own and have built have been made with that rule in mind. I build a car to drive them. It's fuel injected and would fire up in the dead of winter. You could safely drive it anywhere.

....not talk about how good I am .

Any car is good, just drive it!

I agree. Especially when the person saying they are a good experienced driver has never even raced a car before let alone built one. That's the comedy gold of this thread.

As far as tools, you must not really "build" cars or you know you'd need them. Many parts take special tools just to dissasemble. Take fuel lines, power sterring pump pullies, A/C lines. Let alone when you get into setting up the rear end with a pinion depth guage. Then there's the torque required to get the crush sleeve started (around 850 ft lbs). Tools from Walmart aren't going to do it. I have a top and bottom box that only has transmission specialty tools in it to give you an idea. Again, another car component your not going to be able to build properly without. At the very least you'll need a press for a manual and at the very least you'll need piston lip seal installers, a very good dial indicator, and a very good set of micrometers just to even think about building one. That's the bare minimum.

I do understand the people that have their stuff sent out too, (engine, car for paint etc.) then their only task is bolting it in. But trust me in saying when you actually build a car, you're not going to do it with cheap junk you bought at a hardware store.

[Sternjaeger II]

it's your presumption of being better at driving just because you assembled a car that goes fast on a straight line that is ridiculous me thinks... :rolleyes:

If you ever visit the UK let me know, I'll gladly take you down to Silverstone and show you what driving actually means. There are also a couple of straight bits you might do great in ;)

http://static.sidepodcast.com/content/2010/07/bridgestone_circuit_map_great_britain.jpg

[ATAG_Bliss]

No, a tidy garage shows that you've been professionally trained to be a mechanic, because the first thing you learn is keeping your tools, spares and materials tidy and clean. You're just a self-taught toolshed fanatic who thinks he invented the wheel.

By the looks of your googled images you wouldn't even have enough tools to give my car an oil change. Heck with that set you couldn't work on a lawn mower.

I'm not home, but I have a couple of pics on my laptop.

Anyone can google some pictures

The first one is my uncle's garage, he's into vintage cars and even bothered to create a suitable 50s/60s themed garage for them.

The other two are two quick shots of the garage I share with my dad, the Fezza is his (for now!!).

Well at least you admit you live at home. I figured as much. Again, great googled images. I was watching the amount of time it took you to post this. It was close to an hour. You must have been searching long and hard. Great job though caravan man.

Look, I think you ridiculed yourself enough. You drive an old piece of junk with a powerful engine which sticks out of the bonnet and think you're a superhero, your garage looks like the scene of a bomb blast (a very expensive one too, allegedly there's $100k worth of crap!) and the HP of your car increase on every single post...

Have fun living your delusional dreams of glory of WINNING, Charlie Sheen!

My shop is used to build cars not store them. I have a GARAGE for that. If you knew anything about cars, engines, tools, or well anything tbh you'd know how much of am imbecile you are. The greatest thing is those that don't even know. But to guys like us this is absolute class. You're like one of those kids that rides the short bus. Absolutely clueless.

The HP of my car is roughly 2500. Of course it can change. It can be spun up well over 3000. That's the sort of neat knowledge you learn when you actually know something about performance. Heck a couple spring changes in the Turbos and I'd get an easy 500 more out of it. Takes about 5 minutes.

The only thing you've proven thus far is you're an absolute moron. And I mean to the point of being delusional. Congrats on your success.

[ATAG_Bliss]

it's your presumption of being better at driving just because you assembled a car that goes fast on a straight line that is ridiculous me thinks... :rolleyes:

No it's my SCCA and sprint car experience - aka racing experience. Something you don't have.

If you ever visit the UK let me know, I'll gladly take you down to Silverstone and show you what driving actually means. There are also a couple of straight bits you might do great in ;)

I only race for money. If you're serious I'd get an SCCA car over there and show you how pathetic you are. How about 10 laps for 100 grand? If you're serious send me a PM and I can get the ball rolling on a legal document that would get the terms for both parties. Aka - you pay up when you lose. Also, I would like to record the race just so people can laugh at you.

[Sternjaeger II]

By the looks of your googled images you wouldn't even have enough tools to give my car an oil change. Heck with that set you couldn't work on a lawn mower.

yeah, I wouldn't need to, your car goes on plutonium, doesn't it?


Anyone can google some pictures

well I invited you, what else you want me to do?


Well at least you admit you live at home. I figured as much. Again, great googled images. I was watching the amount of time it took you to post this. It was close to an hour. You must have been searching long and hard. Great job though caravan man.

I live in a home, yes, I know it might sound like a novelty concept to you. It took me some time cos I'm at work love, you know that thing called time zone? It's not made up, it's real.


My shop is used to build cars not store them. I have a GARAGE for that. If you knew anything about cars, engines, tools, or well anything tbh you'd know how much of am imbecile you are. The greatest thing is those that don't even know. But to guys like us this is absolute class. You're like one of those kids that rides the short bus. Absolutely clueless.

is that the best you have? Calling me names? Suppose it's the best you can do when you don't have much else uh? Your "shop" looks more like a crime scene to me, tidy that septic tank up man.


The HP of my car is roughly 2500. Of course it can change. It can be spun up well over 3000. That's the sort of neat knowledge you learn when you actually know something about performance. Heck a couple spring changes in the Turbos and I'd get an easy 500 more out of it. Takes about 5 minutes.

Yeah, so you use Cape Canaveral for your drag racing? 3000HP lol, get a grip Shirley!
Besides you're talking so much but all you've shown us so far is a tatty 90s Mustang and some messy tools pile, do you have any dyno tests to prove all your mustang might? I'd be genuinely interested to look at them.


The only thing you've proven thus far is you're an absolute moron. And I mean to the point of being delusional. Congrats on your success.

You're talking to yourself now? Sweet Jeeeezus... :rolleyes:

[Sternjaeger II]

No it's my SCCA and sprint car experience - aka racing experience. Something you don't have.

hahaha ok Shirley.


I only race for money. If you're serious I'd get an SCCA car over there and show you how pathetic you are. How about 10 laps for 100 grand?

Let me get this straight: if I win I get all your tools, whilst if I lose I'd finance more of that automotive vomit? How's that supposed to be appealing?
I told you before, I don't need to race you anyway, my penis is of normal size unlike yours and I'm not 12.


If you're serious send me a PM and I can get the ball rolling on a legal document that would get the terms for both parties. Aka - you pay up when you lose. Also, I would like to record the race just so people can laugh at you.

same as above Shirley, I have a special magnet for keyboard heroes like yourself, and frankly you give me the creeps.. but once again, well done there, enjoy your delusion of WINNING ;)

http://cdn.overclock.net/b/b1/b1e9d19c_Charlie-Sheen-Winning-Duh.jpeg

[ATAG_Bliss]

Congrats once again.

[Bewolf]

it's your presumption of being better at driving just because you assembled a car that goes fast on a straight line that is ridiculous me thinks... :rolleyes:

If you ever visit the UK let me know, I'll gladly take you down to Silverstone and show you what driving actually means. There are also a couple of straight bits you might do great in ;)

http://static.sidepodcast.com/content/2010/07/bridgestone_circuit_map_great_britain.jpg

Go to the Nurburgring. Seperates the men from the boys and has more then one overseas tourist who thought he can drive on it's kill board.

[Sven]

The Nurburgring is great for watching too, for 'regular' folks! The first time I was there I saw a guy crashing in front of me with his Opel speedster, very entertaining! ( He was not hurt )
Another great race track is francorchamps ( Spa), was there last Monday.

[Outlaw]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Go play somewhere else kiddo. A tidy garage is rule number 1 of professional mechanics, anybody that says otherwise is an utter clown.

I never said otherwise. Your comprehension level has dropped significantly below raaaid's.

Regardless, I can't be bothered to check, but, I would not be surprised if the definition of an utter clown included some mention of taking a specific point in time, such as when a garage is not 100% clean, and generalizing that point in time to eternity. As has been so clearly stated before, some people actually WORK on cars which, by definition, will get things a bit dirty.



Do you have a faint idea of the engineering and research that goes into the design and engineering of a Ferrari? Not to mention the know-how and experience developed in F1?! I mean, SERIOUSLY?!


Yes, I do. Do you seriously believe Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. don't have an equal amount of engineering in their racing programs?

Do you know how to be any more vague in your ridiculously pathetic statements? I mean, SERIOUSLY, you haven't responded specifically to anything I have posted. Just meaningless generalizations with absolutely zero topical content.

Your inability to comprehend my posts exceeds raaaid's. I'll say it slower...

I never said anything about a lack of engineering effort on Ferrari's part. I merely stated that your belief that Ferrari's production cars are, "engineering marvels", is ridiculous. They are practically hand built for Pete's sake. It's easy to produce a hot car when you take that approach.

An engineering marvel is something that kicks a$$ AND lasts.


The original Ford GT was a sports car, the new one is just an expensive muscle car, and many believe (and treat them) as such, and again, ask Jeremy Clarkson if his had any problems at all...


Case in point. You have said NOTHING in the above statement. Additionally, the original was the GT40, not the GT.

Why won't you answer my question with real substance and/or detail?

Furthermore, I never stated that the Ford GT (or any other car for that matter) would not have problems so your repeated mention of Clarkson is just drivel.

I love your double standard of Ferraris are great despite their WELL KNOWN horrible reliability and absolutely stupid maintenance requirements but ONE guy's story of the troubles he had with a Ford GT and therefore the Ford GT is a piece of junk compared to a Ferrari.


..you still haven't explained why you diss Fezzas so much but still wanna get yourself one.. I'm all ears..


You never asked me to explain.

It's pretty simple though. If you could read at a sufficient level you would have noticed where I previously stated how good the older models look. Combined with their investment value and the model I'm interested in, it's not a hard decision.

--Outlaw.

[ATAG_Bliss]

He's an idiot. What do you expect?

There's people that talk about cars from what they learn in a magazine. And then there's people that know about cars from experience building them. I'd say in his case he hasn't even reasearched very well. Obviously he has no experience.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II View Post
Do you have a faint idea of the engineering and research that goes into the design and engineering of a Ferrari? Not to mention the know-how and experience developed in F1?! I mean, SERIOUSLY?!

Farrari? Pffff.... I was working on a milionaires house (10 bed rooms each with a bathroom and shower/bath), he bought and sold limited edition cars as a dealership. He had a farrari. There I stood in awe as he started it up...

Then I was very disapointed as it sounded like a bag of spanners falling down steel stairs... Several months later it caught fire just sitting there...

What kind of superb engineering:


Sounds like an assault on your ears?
Catches fire doing nothing?
Requires servicing at a much higher frequecy than nearly all other cars?


You'd need an F1 team to keep it going. Thats not what I'd call "Superb Engineering".


Ermm SturmJaeger II? I thought you were Italian but lived in the UK?

[ATAG_Snapper]

I dunno guys. I had a Hot Wheels Ferrari that went like stink and beat the Ford Mustang Mach 1 hands down every time. It was bright red and the Pony was yellow which may have been a factor.

[Robotic Pope]

Do you guys arguing realise how childish you sound? Its like a damn "My dad could beat up your dad" fight in here.

[Ze-Jamz]

Do you guys arguing realise how childish you sound? Its like a damn "My dad could beat up your dad" fight in here.

It makes a change though...topic wise I mean..

''More!.More!''
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_3PUmxURLvxc/SmnXi08widI/AAAAAAAAC5Y/bxBzHjKB7e4/s400/muppet-show.jpg

[ATAG_Bliss]

Do you guys arguing realise how childish you sound? Its like a damn "My dad could beat up your dad" fight in here.

There's nothing to argue about. There's some people that have actually raced cars and others that type on the internet saying they are good drivers because they own an old bag of crap alfa.

Good drivers would accept a racing challenge especially with the amount of money I'm willing to lay on the table. But as I very well figured from the get go, the white flag was raised by the other party that will not accept the challenge because A.) they don't really have a car. B.) they don't have the money, and C.) because they know they would get their ass handed to them.

I love calling people out on their BS. It would be better to laugh at him in person, but this is fun nonetheless. At least his lies are on the table for everyone to see. Not only can he not drive. He doesn't know the 1st thing about racing.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Go to the Nurburgring. Seperates the men from the boys and has more then one overseas tourist who thought he can drive on it's kill board.

Just a little hint. There's race tracks in the US as well. Considering the caliber of people I'm talking to here with regards to cars, a simple go kart track is all that would be needed to embarrass you with.

[Jatta Raso]

you guys beat me at carcrap bs; today i own a 1993 Citroen BX 1600, hydraulic suspension, much like this one

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5827/citroenbx41042.jpg

actually i don't have a photo at hand, mine has better rims, upgraded bumper (black btw), red mirrors, a total classic, i cal it the 'Hurricane'.

besides, nothing beats the matchbox trickshifter had about 12 years old. grow up!

[ATAG_Bliss]

This post is left blank in anticipation of the 20 paragraph quote train from stern back peddling out of a challenge.

Popcorn ready.

Edit: he's been at this for a couple hours now. I'm thinking it might be closer to 40 paragraphs.

[ElAurens]

All my track experience is at Mid Ohio Sports Car Course...

http://img256.imageshack.us/img256/7288/midohiotechtrackmap.jpg

13 or 14 Porsche Club schools, done in a Jetta (one time), Honda CRX SI (10 or 11 times) and one in an early Mazda RX-7 with a supercharger we installed that would push my instructor's Corvette down the back straight.

Did one race in a the same Mazda, de-tuned to SCCA Improved Touring spec, entered in a vintage event.

Here I am at Mid Ohio in 1988 in my CRX...

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1413/elcrx.jpg

And here is the shop I work in at the museum. The Jeep and the TR-3 belong to my employer, the others are customer cars.

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/3056/myshopl.jpg

And here I am in a '47 MG TC equipped with a Judson supercharger that I got running again after it sat idle for 20 years. Fun old crock, and the car isn't bad either... :grin:

http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3956/elmgtc.jpg

[Sternjaeger II]

I never said otherwise. Your comprehension level has dropped significantly below raaaid's.

dude, you do exactly the same thing you're accusing me of...

Regardless, I can't be bothered to check, but, I would not be surprised if the definition of an utter clown included some mention of taking a specific point in time, such as when a garage is not 100% clean, and generalizing that point in time to eternity. As has been so clearly stated before, some people actually WORK on cars which, by definition, will get things a bit dirty.

Yes, I do. Do you seriously believe Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. don't have an equal amount of engineering in their racing programs?

They don't, or better, they do a different kind of engineering R&D, which then gets applied to production cars. Don't forget that Ferrari is part of the FIAT group.

Do you know how to be any more vague in your ridiculously pathetic statements? I mean, SERIOUSLY, you haven't responded specifically to anything I have posted. Just meaningless generalizations with absolutely zero topical content.

Your inability to comprehend my posts exceeds raaaid's. I'll say it slower...

I never said anything about a lack of engineering effort on Ferrari's part. I merely stated that your belief that Ferrari's production cars are, "engineering marvels", is ridiculous. They are practically hand built for Pete's sake. It's easy to produce a hot car when you take that approach.

An engineering marvel is something that kicks a$$ AND lasts.

you keep on accusing me of what you do man. I told you before..

Have you had a look on how the latest generation Ferrari are designed? Or the new 4wd system introduced with the Ferrari FF? Come on man, Ferrari's engineering solutions have been envied and copied by so many others for decades!


Case in point. You have said NOTHING in the above statement. Additionally, the original was the GT40, not the GT.

you're nitpicking, and they're turning the new GT into a stupid muscle car only good on a straight line (actually it can't even go on a straight line..).


Why won't you answer my question with real substance and/or detail?

Furthermore, I never stated that the Ford GT (or any other car for that matter) would not have problems so your repeated mention of Clarkson is just drivel.

I love your double standard of Ferraris are great despite their WELL KNOWN horrible reliability and absolutely stupid maintenance requirements but ONE guy's story of the troubles he had with a Ford GT and therefore the Ford GT is a piece of junk compared to a Ferrari.

you're generalising just like you're accusing me of doing, yet....


You never asked me to explain.

It's pretty simple though. If you could read at a sufficient level you would have noticed where I previously stated how good the older models look. Combined with their investment value and the model I'm interested in, it's not a hard decision.

--Outlaw.

So you're happy to put up with an (alleged) bitch of a car for looks and as an investment? Interesting..

[ATAG_Bliss]

Back in 2006 the Ford GT beat out many super cars including many models of Ferrari at Nuremburg. It also keeps breaking world records for speed. It can go in a straight line or around a corner quite well. I believe it was somewhere around the 10th fastest car around the Top Gear track as well, beating out many competitors cars, some priced well over 100k more than the GT. Saying it isn't a good car for the money only once again shows your pure stupidity.

List of Ferrari's it beat on the Top Gear Test track. Mind you the GT time was ran in the water.

Porsche 911 Turbo Cabriolet 1:22.20 124 '09 500 / 1670 The Stig
Ferrari 360 CS 1:22.30 123 '03 425 / 1280 The Stig
Porsche 911 GT3 RS 1:22.30 123 '03 381 / 1360 The Stig.
Audi R8 V10 Spyder 1:22.30 123 '10 525 / 1720 The Stig
Chevrolet Corvette Z06 1:22.40 123 '05 513 / 1437 The Stig
Noble M15 1:22.50 123 '06 455 / 1250 The Stig
Lexus LF-A 1:22.80 w 123 '10 560 / 1609 The Stig Ferrari F430 1:22.90 122 '05 489 / 1450 The Stig
Mercedes SL65 AMG Black Series 1:23.00 122 '09 670 / 1870 The Stig. KTM X-Bow 1:23.10 122 '08 241 / 871 The Stig
Porsche 911 GT3 1:23.10 122 '09 435 / 1376 The Stig
Maserati GranTurismo MC Stradale 1:23.10 122 '11 450 / 1855 Stig
Ferrari F430 Spyder

[Sternjaeger II]

Just a little hint. There's race tracks in the US as well. Considering the caliber of people I'm talking to here with regards to cars, a simple go kart track is all that would be needed to embarrass you with.

...you're still talking?? I'm still waiting on those dyno results Charlie! Show us you're not all talk...

Do you really expect someone to take you seriously? Betting $100k over such a petty thing?? Who's the delusional saddo here?

On one thing you're right, Im an idiot, but only cos I even bothered getting dragged into your sad little world of delusion..

[ATAG_Bliss]

There's that white flag.

And there's nothing petty about it. I see an easy way to make money from a complete imbecile. I was hoping as us Americans say "you'd put your money where your mouth is" but I knew well ahead before hand that you would back out for reasons I already mentioned earlier. As I already stated it's real easy to call out someone else's BS. Unlike your delusions. Yes you, I'm prepared and can back up anything I say. I'm not a BS'er. Hopefully one day you'll learn there's plenty of people out there that can and will put people full of shit back in their place. I have no qualms in doing so. Thanks.

Edit: and why would I need to post up Dyno numbers? If you knew the 1st thing about any sort of performance engine you'd be able to look at that engine bay, the parts there, and get a really get estimate of the HP it makes. Again, I congratulate you on showing me once again that you know nothing about cars.

[Sternjaeger II]

There's that white flag.

And there's nothing petty about it. I see an easy way to make money from a complete imbecile. I was hoping as us Americans say "you'd put your money where your mouth is" but I knew well ahead before hand that you would back out for reasons I already mentioned earlier. As I already stated it's real easy to call out someone else's BS. Unlike your delusions. Yes you, I'm prepared and can back up anything I say. I'm not a BS'er. Hopefully one day you'll learn there's plenty of people out there that can and will put people full of shit back in their place. I have no qualms in doing so. Thanks.

erm, sure Charlie, you're WINNING again, in your mind :roll eyes:

Do you really expect any sane individual to take you seriously for half a second?? Im not the only one here to think you're just a messy toolshed hobbyist and a bit of a liar.. As long as you don't back up your talk with evidence, the only BSer here is YOU. Now do hurry and fabricate those dyno tests!
I'm surprised that a pro like you didn't even film his Mustang on the dyno bench...

[Sternjaeger II]

As per the Nurburgring, you guys know what the fares are now?

[ATAG_Bliss]

I've seen some stupid people in my life, but you are clearly the king. Nice job.

[Sternjaeger II]

I've seen some stupid people in my life, but you are clearly the king. Nice job.

...still no evidence.. u got any readily available? 2500HP dyno test results? No? Aaawwwww..

[ATAG_Bliss]

As I've already stated - a person that knows anything about engines could look at the engine bay and get a good estimate. It really blows the mind how much an idiot you make yourself out to be. Do you live with your parents in the caravan? Or do you guys have separate units at the park?

[Sternjaeger II]

As I've already stated - a person that knows anything about engines could look at the engine bay and get a good estimate.

http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg543/scaled.php?server=543&filename=xzibityodawg.jpg&res=landing

[ATAG_Bliss]

I take that as a yes. I'm sorry. One day if you work hard enough I'm sure you can finally make some money of your own. I'm rooting for you. I know if you google long enough you may eventually learn something to help yourself out.

[HeavyHemi]

I take that as a yes. I'm sorry. One day if you work hard enough I'm sure you can finally make some money of your own. I'm rooting for you. I know if you google long enough you may eventually learn something to help yourself out.


"Bone stock". LOL

[ATAG_Bliss]

Yep the 2nd video I showed was bone stock as shown in the video and credits. The 1st one I was wrong on. The difference is I'm able to admit when I'm wrong and immediately said so. It's nice to see you're still butthurt about it though. I love the envy.

[Sternjaeger II]

I take that as a yes. I'm sorry. One day if you work hard enough I'm sure you can finally make some money of your own. I'm rooting for you. I know if you google long enough you may eventually learn something to help yourself out.

HAHAHAHA! Man you keep on embarrassing yourself relentlessly and still try and bully me, you're priceless!! ;)

Here, let me make it easier for you

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22560148.jpg

[ATAG_Bliss]

All I did was call you out on your lies and BS. I'm sorry if you're still upset about it.

Just a hint for next time. Don't lie on the internet if you don't want someone to make fun of you about it.

[HeavyHemi]

Yep the 2nd video I showed was bone stock as shown in the video and credits. The 1st one I was wrong on. The difference is I'm able to admit when I'm wrong and immediately said so. It's nice to see you're still butthurt about it though. I love the envy.

If butt hurt translates to laughing hysterically at another internet legend, then you're correct. Why would I be envious of someone who who claims such vast experience yet had something so basic flat out wrong? You didn't admit you were wrong until the proof you were wrong was shoved up your exhaust pipe. If I hadn't quoted Hennessy, no doubt you'd still be blowing blue smoke due to your your busted seal ring. Later, 'legend'. :-P

[ATAG_Bliss]

If butt hurt translates to laughing hysterically at another internet legend, then you're correct. Why would I be envious of someone who who claims such vast experience yet had something so basic flat out wrong? You didn't admit you were wrong until the proof you were wrong was shoved up your exhaust pipe. If I hadn't quoted Hennessy, no doubt you'd still be blowing blue smoke due to your your busted seal ring. Later, 'legend'. :-P

You pointed out I was wrong. Then I admitted I was wrong. But as I said only part of that was wrong. The whole point which you seemed to forget again, was no other production engine on the planet can make that kind of power increase all with OEM stock internals. If you weren't envious, I'm sure you'd be stalking me on an internet forum because you were one person able to prove me wrong on one little issue which happened to have nothing to do with the point I'm 100% right on.

And of course your envious. It's the only reason you would stalk me on an internet forum because of a technicality that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

[HeavyHemi]

You pointed out I was wrong. Then I admitted I was wrong. But as I said only part of that was wrong. The whole point which you seemed to forget again, was no other production engine on the planet can make that kind of power increase all with OEM stock internals. If you weren't envious, I'm sure you'd be stalking me on an internet forum because you were one person able to prove me wrong on one little issue which happened to have nothing to do with the point I'm 100% right on.

And of course your envious. It's the only reason you would stalk me on an internet forum because of a technicality that had absolutely nothing to do with what I posted.

Wow, you are quite a nut. Is it only online you demonstrate such odd behaviors? Stalking? Envy? Are you unaware you project you're suffering from a massive inferiority complex? I get an image of you pounding away on your keyboard in your double wide in your underoos ;). It's simply a flight sim section on a game forum. If you reply to this, I'll have to assume you're stalking me! :cool:

[ATAG_Bliss]

You came into to take a jab at me on a forum and you're saying I have an inferiority complex? Better look in the mirror chump.

As I said, I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong and will do so when proven as such. I'm sorry of your personal problems. I suggest taking them out on someone else.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Sturmjaeger why are you always so hostile? :rolleyes:

[Sternjaeger II]

Sturmjaeger why are you always so hostile? :rolleyes:

Hostile? Nah, my real fault is that I'm a bit cynical.. It never fails to amaze me how some people live in a proper deluded state..

Did you know you can tell the HP of a car by looking at the engine?! And that a stock 90s Mustang can be tweaked up to 3000HP? It's the power two Merlin engines! Amazing stuff! :rolleyes:

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hostile? Nah, my real fault is that I'm a bit cynical.. It never fails to amaze me how some people live in a proper deluded state..

Did you know you can tell the HP of a car by looking at the engine?! And that a stock 90s Mustang can be tweaked up to 3000HP? It's the power two Merlin engines! Amazing stuff! :rolleyes:

A stock 90's mustang with 3000HP? I'd say you're just a bit more delusional than I thought.

[Sternjaeger II]

A stock 90's mustang with 3000HP? I'd say you're just a bit more delusional than I thought.

oh yeah, it's me the delusional folk :rolleyes:

Enough of this thread, gotta go fill up my tank with tiger blood ;)

[ATAG_Bliss]

Thinking a "stock" mustang makes 3000HP is very delusional. Maybe it's because you don't know what a stock mustang is?

Here's a small block ford (super street oulaw car) pegging the dyno with a single turbo. Dyno pegged at 2000HP.

Just so you can see a video and just so you know. This is not a "stock" mustang. Hope this helps.

Edit: Since you'll probably fail to the make the connection. My car is a super street outlaw car with 2 turbos. It's not a stock mustang. Again just trying to help you out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7pc6Gks8IY&feature=related

[Sternjaeger II]

sarcasm |ˈsärˌkazəm|
noun
the use of irony to mock or convey contempt: his voice, hardened by sarcasm, could not hide his resentment.
ORIGIN mid 16th cent.: from French sarcasme, or via late Latin from late Greek sarkasmos, from Greek sarkazein ‘tear flesh,’ in late Greek‘gnash the teeth, speak bitterly’ (from sarx, sark- ‘flesh’).

[ATAG_Bliss]

It never fails to amaze me how some people live in a proper deluded state..

Did you know you can tell the HP of a car by looking at the engine?! And that a stock 90s Mustang can be tweaked up to 3000HP?

Yep, your post to Farber looked pretty sarcastic to me.

Well at least it seems like you're starting to learn something. Good job man!

Edit: had to add all that sarcasm in a quote.

[Sternjaeger II]

Yep, your post to Farber looked pretty sarcastic to me.

Well at least it seems like you're starting to learn something. Good job man!

Edit: had to add all that sarcasm in a quote.

dude, can you read?! I said, you can tweak a stock Mustang to..... it was sarcastic anyway, got it? lol

Once again, it's all very cool, let us know when your dyno test results are available, ok? :cool:

[ATAG_Bliss]

I read exactly what you said. You tried to make a jab at something you clearly don't know anything about it.

I will not be putting my car on a chassis dyno. 2000HP cars are hard pressed to not light up the rollers. Please take this information in. Again, you may learn something.

[ATAG_Bliss]

dude, can you read?! I said, you can tweak a stock Mustang to..... it was sarcastic anyway, got it? lol

Once again, it's all very cool, let us know when your dyno test results are available, ok? :cool:

And that's what you don't seem to get yet. You don't tweak a stock mustang at all. The only thing left on the car that's mustang is parts of the unibody.

That's like saying you tweak John Force's NHRA mustang funny car and say it's a mustang. The only thing mustang about it is a word that says mustang. Clearly you're are unable to comprehend much of anything.

I'm sorry, but talking to someone like you is a complete waste of time. I do hope that you gain some sort of automotive knowledge some day. Maybe you can get away with stuff you type here because most people on this forum aren't gear heads/know much about cars and/or racing. But to say some of the stuff you say here on a car enthusiast site, you would get laughed out of the room by every body there.

[Sternjaeger II]

I read exactly what you said. You tried to make a jab at something you clearly don't know anything about it.

I will not be putting my car on a chassis dyno. 2000HP cars are hard pressed to not light up the rollers. Please take this information in. Again, you may learn something.

oh it's 2000HP now? It was 2500HP some posts ago! Man that Mustang of yours is crazy! ;)

So now it's so powerful we can't actually measure that bad boy uh? :rolleyes:

Seriously now, I'm sure your car is a beastie on a drag race, but claiming HP which in reality are just a guess is kinda hard to take for good, no matter how experienced you are, don't you think? ;)

[Sternjaeger II]

And that's what you don't seem to get yet. You don't tweak a stock mustang at all. The only thing left on the car that's mustang is parts of the unibody.

That's like saying you tweak John Force's NHRA mustang funny car and say it's a mustang. The only thing mustang about it is a word that says mustang. Clearly you're are unable to comprehend much of anything.

I'm sorry, but talking to someone like you is a complete waste of time. I do hope that you gain some sort of automotive knowledge some day. Maybe you can get away with stuff you type here because most people on this forum aren't gear heads/know much about cars and/or racing. But to say some of the stuff you say here on a car enthusiast site, you would get laughed out of the room by every body there.

hey I'm no engineer but I figured as much thank you, I was just pulling your leg (again, please do refer to the definition of sarcasm I provided you with some posts ago). So your Mustang is in fact not a Mustang, it's... what is it exactly? Ah yes, it's a car you've built yourself!

I'm sure that if we went on an automotive forum and you claimed you need no dyno test to know how many HP your car produces, because you know by looking at the engine, the one that gets laughed out of the room will be you, Charlie.. in fact you know what? I'll show this convo to a couple of automotive forums I'm subscribed to, we often share the sort of comedy you produced for us here today, thank you!

It's like saying: "Hey I'm the finest dancer...in my mind".. I mean don't you really really see how ludicrous your claim is? :rolleyes:

uh and to wrap this up, I'm done with this for real, you made your point, I made mine, happy with the "agree to disagree" finale here..

[ATAG_Bliss]

For the love of god please read this for the final time.

A 2000HP car is hard pressed to go on the rollers of a chassis dyno. So one can conclude from there a similar car built for the same series of drag racing pegs a dyno with a single turbo that a car with a very similar build but with 2 turbos instead will easily make an additional 500 HP. So to recap. At 2000HP you're lucky to get any sort of accurate chassis dyno run. About the only thing you can do is set A/F and timing. HP numbers will be skewed. But I use a dual wideband setup and a FAST acq setup to tune my own car with. Meaning I don't need to spend money on a chassis dyno for the only thing I need it for. I'm not in the least bit worried about the HP. Combinations like mine have been running around for well over 5 years now. IE - HP numbers will be similar without a shed of doubt.

[Sternjaeger II]

For the love of god please read this for the final time.

A 2000HP car is hard pressed to go on the rollers of a chassis dyno. So one can conclude from there a similar car built for the same series of drag racing pegs a dyno with a single turbo that a car with a very similar build but with 2 turbos instead will easily make an additional 500 HP. So to recap. At 2000HP you're lucky to get any sort of accurate chassis dyno run. About the only thing you can do is set A/F and timing. HP numbers will be skewed. But I use a dual wideband setup and a FAST acq setup to tune my own car with. Meaning I don't need to spend money on a chassis dyno for the only thing I need it for. I'm not in the least bit worried about the HP. Combinations like mine have been running around for well over 5 years now. IE - HP numbers will be similar without a shed of doubt.

I understand. And you drive that everyday right? Like to go get milk, medicines etc... boy that must draw SO much attention!

[ATAG_Bliss]

Here's a SSO car going to the drive through at burger king with snow on the ground. I will drive it on the street when everything is setup. These are very tame cars until you step on it.

Edit: forgot to mention this was in Detroit. Not exactly a small city.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD65zFt6IiY

[Sternjaeger II]

you're also getting a wheelchair strapped to the back of yours? ;)

[Outlaw]

They don't, or better, they do a different kind of engineering R&D, which then gets applied to production cars. Don't forget that Ferrari is part of the FIAT group.


"They don't" and "different" are mutually exclusive.

Regardless, feel free to explain how the engineering R&D of the racing programs of Ford, GM, Toyota, etc. that then gets applied to production cars is different from Ferrari's operation?


you keep on accusing me of what you do man. I told you before..


No you didn't. You haven't said ANYTHING of substance to support your delusion that Ferraris are "engineering marvels". Show me ANYWHERE on the net that says Ferraris are not riddled with maintenance issues and are stupidly expensive to own.

Show me ANYTHING that contradicts what I've said. All you have posted is your opinion.


Have you had a look on how the latest generation Ferrari are designed? Or the new 4wd system introduced with the Ferrari FF? Come on man, Ferrari's engineering solutions have been envied and copied by so many others for decades!


Yes I have. Pretty sweet I must say. Nearly every major manufacturer can say the same thing about technology licenses. So what.

And apparently there is a need to say, once again, I have never dissed Ferrari's performance engineering in ANY of my posts.


you're nitpicking, and they're turning the new GT into a stupid muscle car only good on a straight line (actually it can't even go on a straight line..).


You do realize that the "newest" Ford GT is a 2006 model right?


you're generalising just like you're accusing me of doing, yet....


Feel free to explain where I have provided insufficient detail to support my position. I'm all ears.

I should not reiterate but I will. You have failed to respond specifically to a single question I have posted. You have not rebutted a single point of mine with, as I said before, anything other than an opinion.


So you're happy to put up with an (alleged) bitch of a car for looks and as an investment? Interesting..

No, it's not an "alleged" bitch, it's a bonafide bitch. Why do you think the, "if you have to ask how much the maintenance costs...", joke is repeated about a zillion times in every Ferrari owner's forum?

--Outlaw.

[Sternjaeger II]

Outlaw, you're doing a game of semantics here, which is pretty much trolling..

But hey, in order to satisfy your curiosity (so you will have something to talk about when you buy your Ferrari):

Ferrari was the inventor of the F1 gearbox, of carbon-ceramic brakes, F1-derived traction control, the e-diff.. and let's not even go in the field of aerodynamics..

They're cars of exquisite craftsmanship, and although not all of them are 100% perfect, apart for some faulty components that have been enhanced, the reliability issue is also due to the way owners drive these cars. These are no "turn the key and go" Prius, these cars need to be warmed up properly and driven with a different attitude.

If you're really getting yourself a 328 make sure you have a thorough understanding of how the old Ferrari gearboxes work, or you'd be in for some bad surprises and costly bills for sure.

The main thing I've noticed with Ferrari owners is that the "newcomers" always look at the fact they bought a Ferrari and are very hyped about it, but don't understand that they also need to get themselves a huge load of experience in driving a sports car together with it. Every car will get damaged or will suffer breakdowns if it's manhandled, and cars like older Ferraris, with no rev limiters, stability control and all the new gizmos they come with, are particularly prone because of the fact that they can be easily taken over the limits.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Doesn’t matter how skilled you are, or how good your car is. You drive you car according road conditions that prevail at the time. If you do anything else you’re just a bloody idiot.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hv8RSfJRWUM&feature=related

This video just goes to show that having access to lots of money does not make you any more skillful or intelligent.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Hostile? Nah, my real fault is that I'm a bit cynical.. It never fails to amaze me how some people live in a proper deluded state..

Did you know you can tell the HP of a car by looking at the engine?! And that a stock 90s Mustang can be tweaked up to 3000HP? It's the power two Merlin engines! Amazing stuff! :rolleyes:

See what I mean... Hostile.

[Skoshi Tiger]

You may not be able to tell the horsepower of the engine by it's looks but you can make an engine to a specification.

Plenty of we sites offering 2500HP Ford kits delivered to your door! If you can get it in a kit you can put it together yourself to the specification.

Makes my 300HP E49 265ci straight six Valiant motor seam quite inadequate :(

Oh dear! The things you sacrifice by having kids!

[Sternjaeger II]

You may not be able to tell the horsepower of the engine by it's looks but you can make an engine to a specification.

Plenty of we sites offering 2500HP Ford kits delivered to your door! If you can get it in a kit you can put it together yourself to the specification.

Makes my 300HP E49 265ci straight six Valiant motor seam quite inadequate :(

Oh dear! The things you sacrifice by having kids!

I know that well, you can use any kit that gives you a theoretical HP output, but it varies according to many factors. We're still talking about a lot of power of course, but it's the way it's put down that makes the difference, hence the importance of a dyno test, which can be accurate indeed if done with the adequate systems. You might be losing some HP here and there, so that's the added value of a measuring as accurate as possible.. but when someone who has one wants to sell me that it's actually a car that is good also for cornering or to use daily you can appreciate that one can only laugh at the delusion..

Kit cars are another interesting subject: before deciding to get me a Mustang I toyed with the idea of getting a Cobra kit, nowadays you can pretty much buy anything you want off the internet. A good mate of mine just got himself a Lancia Stratos replica kit and fitted a Busso 3.2 V6 to it, but the producers said they could virtually build him any engine mounts he wanted.

Anyways...

[Sternjaeger II]

See what I mean... Hostile.

lol ok then, hostile it is!

[whoarmongar]

Ilove American V8s, I like everything about them, theyre unbustable, lazy poweerful, but most of all I love the sound.

I also love small engined revy light cars, a winding country road and a responsive little car is great, nearly as good as a bike.

Over here gas is ten dollars a gallon so the V8 is a non option if you do any mileage.

Toying with the idea of getting a kit car should remain just what it is, a vague dream.

Kit cars are deceptivly easy to make arnt they afterall you can buy anything on the internet right.

Wrong.

They require lots of things that are in short supply

MONEY, they can be a hideous money pit

TIME, Once started you must devote lots of time to them, otherwise that project will drag on and on until you become rather fed up with it and it remains an unfinished project.

SPACE, You need lots of space for this type of work, The kit, the donor and its suprising how much "stuff" goes into making a car !

SKILLS, Sure you may have all the equipment you need to build that kit,You totally understand the technical issues. You may be pretty good on the spanners, Welding and metal fabrications hold no fears Car electrics are a doddle for you, Bodywork and paint you can obviously do in your well equipped workspace, and the legal requirements to get that finished kit on the road hold no fears.

FRIENDS. real friends, not that facebook type. People who can help you maybe encourage you and will perhaps devote some of their time to occasionally helping you.

And finally the bit where most kits fall down.

Finishing and trim. Endless hours of shaping fabricating cutting pleating glueing sewing and attaching trim and finish, trust me it takes ages and by then most builders are so inpatient to see there car finished they make a hashed up balls up of it. The excuse being they will sort it out next year.

My advise, go buy a kit, it may keep you away from the internet for a while.

Or at least till the next patch.

[Hood]

If I went for a kit car I'd get one of these:

http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/roadsport.html

Hood

[Warhound]

Can't we turn this into a general automotive thread without the endless arguing, as it seems there's plenty of carlovers here.

101 year old lady and her awesome 1930 Packard Straight Eight.
Killer car and the way she even puts a cloth on the doorstep to get in says alot about her love for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHwwwJ83oWo&feature=player_embedded


And one of my favorite classics. Mostly because it looks good, is reasonably sporty and still attainable. Aim to own a '72 model in broken white, dark green or deep red someday...
There are sexier classics, but they won't ever be in my pricerange unless I win euromillions.

[Outlaw]

Toying with the idea of getting a kit car should remain just what it is, a vague dream...


Correct if you get the wrong kit. Mostly incorrect if you get the right one.

I say mostly because you do have some very good points, but, with the right kit things are manageable. I got this one...

http://www.factoryfive.com/kits/type-65-coupe/

I bought the complete kit (b/c I didn't have a donor Mustang), wheels, rear brakes, and the Moser rear end from Factory Five. It includes EVERYTHING I will need except tires, engine, transmission, paint and little consumables like silicone sealer, etc. The body is 2 piece fiberglass ready to bolt on. It will require a LOT of finish work before painting though.

No significantly special tools are required.

You are dead on about the time. At my current rate the completion date is 1st quarter 3945!

The finish work and paint job will be the most expensive part not included with the kit. I hope I can get a decent one for $6k. Total driveout will hopefully be < $37k USD.

--Outlaw.

[swiss]

I hope I can get a decent one for $6k.

a decent what?
The finished car is quite a beauty tho.
Would go all out racing(but A/C etc) when building it, but then again it's yours.:cool:

[Outlaw]

a decent what?
The finished car is quite a beauty tho.
Would go all out racing(but A/C etc) when building it, but then again it's yours.:cool:

A decent paint job!

I wanted to go with the fully independent rear end, but, the price and the fact that I will never even be able to get the most from the solid rear axle made it a no-go.

Other than that, there's no real difference between "all out" racing and not (in the kit itself). I did get the A/C. The heat index was 109°F here in Houston yesterday and it will likely be almost that much today!

I almost went with the vintage wheels and tires but tires that small are very expensive today so I went with the modern wheels.

--Outlaw.

[Sternjaeger II]

so you gonna do this AND get yourself a 328?

[ATAG_Bliss]

A decent paint job!

I wanted to go with the fully independent rear end, but, the price and the fact that I will never even be able to get the most from the solid rear axle made it a no-go.

Other than that, there's no real difference between "all out" racing and not (in the kit itself). I did get the A/C. The heat index was 109°F here in Houston yesterday and it will likely be almost that much today!

I almost went with the vintage wheels and tires but tires that small are very expensive today so I went with the modern wheels.

--Outlaw.

Factory Five makes some good stuff. I put a shelby together around 10 years ago.

I'm assuming you're going with an EEC-IV setup since you were talking about a mustang? Anyhow that's the best route - engine harness / PCM completely seperate from any other harness. Obviously very easy to make go-fast stuff with as well.

I don't know if you've gotten the drivetrain yet, but I deal mainly on the corral (http://forums.corral.net/forums/ - sorry if you're already there) But it's about the best place to find anything EEC-IV and EEC-V (fuel system, drivetrain, electronics, blowers, turbos, foggers, etc.)

I've been dealing with mustangs for quite a while now. So if you have any questions just ask / PM me. There's a whole lot of tricks out there today.

[Outlaw]

Outlaw, you're doing a game of semantics here, which is pretty much trolling..


Geez your whining about everyone being a troll is getting old.

Regardless, post some substance and respond to actual points made and the nitpicking won't be necessary.

SERIOUSLY, raaaid can argue better than you.


Ferrari was the inventor of the F1 gearbox, of carbon-ceramic brakes, F1-derived traction control, the e-diff.. and let's not even go in the field of aerodynamics..


So what, every major manufacturer has their list.

But that's not the point. Your continued blathering about Ferrari technology is such a wasted effort as my ONLY point regarding Ferraris...


You're correct if your definition of an, "engineering marvel", is a car that requires a $5k+ engine out service every 15k miles or 3 years.


That's it. Agree or disagree but posting pointless and blatantly obvious fact after fact DOES NOT CHANGE the above. If that's your definition, then fine, just say so.



They're cars of exquisite craftsmanship, and although not all of them are 100% perfect, apart for some faulty components that have been enhanced, the reliability issue is also due to the way owners drive these cars. These are no "turn the key and go" Prius, these cars need to be warmed up properly and driven with a different attitude.


Even in the best of hands and treatment the MANUFACTURER'S RECOMMENDED maintenance requirements are just pathetic. For such craftsmanship, you should get something better.


The main thing I've noticed with Ferrari owners is that the "newcomers" always look at the fact they bought a Ferrari and are very hyped about it, but don't understand that they also need to get themselves a huge load of experience in driving a sports car together with it. Every car will get damaged or will suffer breakdowns if it's manhandled, and cars like older Ferraris, with no rev limiters, stability control and all the new gizmos they come with, are particularly prone because of the fact that they can be easily taken over the limits.

Your insufferable pandering is just plain sad. Now you're just trying to point fingers and blame their issues on everything BUT the cars.


If you're really getting yourself a 328 make sure you have a thorough understanding of how the old Ferrari gearboxes work, or you'd be in for some bad surprises and costly bills for sure.


Oh please, stop trying to back off from the total a$$hat you've been up to this point.

--Outlaw.

[Outlaw]

so you gonna do this AND get yourself a 328?

And another Vette.

And I would also like to get a Lotus somewhere along the way.

--Outlaw.

[Hood]

And one of my favorite classics. Mostly because it looks good, is reasonably sporty and still attainable. Aim to own a '72 model in broken white, dark green or deep red someday...
There are sexier classics, but they won't ever be in my pricerange unless I win euromillions.

White with red leather interior for me. They did a pale blue that I also liked.

Hood

[Robotic Pope]

you guys beat me at carcrap bs; today i own a 1993 Citroen BX 1600, hydraulic suspension, much like this one

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5827/citroenbx41042.jpg

actually i don't have a photo at hand, mine has better rims, upgraded bumper (black btw), red mirrors, a total classic, i cal it the 'Hurricane'.

besides, nothing beats the matchbox trickshifter had about 12 years old. grow up!

Oh I love the old BX. My Dad had a silver 1400 with grey bumpers and black mirrors, being a 1400 it didn't have the spoiler on the back though. I don't think i've ever been in a car that rode over bumps so well, it was so smooth. Rolled quite a bit in turns though lol.

Before his BX he had a gigantic gold Citroen CX estate which had a 2.4l engine which did about 7mpg and had a 0-60mph of about 2 weeks. I remember the dashboard was very strange, the dials were not dials but horizontal wheels behind a glass lense with the numbers on the outside like a rolled up tape measure.:-?

[Warhound]

White with red leather interior for me. They did a pale blue that I also liked.

Hood

Here you go, pity it's the 60's model with the old engine and brakes but I agree that's one awesome colourcombination. :)
I call it broken white, since it's not really snow white and not beige either.

http://www.nettiauto.com/volvo/p1800/4701558

[ATAG_Snapper]

Eat my dust, SUCKERS!!!!!! :grin:

http://www.pbase.com/daverilstone/image/144374713.jpg


QUICK EDIT: not my car! Just a pic I googled off the Internet. But unless I'm mistaken, is that someone actually JUDGING that Gremlin in a car show??? LOL

[baronWastelan]

Jaguar could have made good use of the sweet reliable inline 6 the Gremlin had.

[Hood]

Here you go, pity it's the 60's model with the old engine and brakes but I agree that's one awesome colourcombination. :)
I call it broken white, since it's not really snow white and not beige either.

http://www.nettiauto.com/volvo/p1800/4701558

That's the one. Also, see this story about the P1800 going to do about 3,000,000 miles. I guess he's done it by now.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/08/record-setting-volvo-driver-closing-in-on-3-million-miles/1


This is the light blue version that I think is quite elegant:

http://volvop1800s.com/images/volvop1800s_bigimage_1.jpg

Hood

[Sven]

I have a P1800



in 1:24 scale :grin:

Beautiful car!