Diesel exhausts do cause cancer, says WHO

[baronWastelan]

Incidentally Porsche never jumped on the rotten stinking diesel bandwagon...

12 June 2012 Last updated at 17:08 ET

Diesel exhausts do cause cancer, says WHO
By James Gallagher Health and science reporter, BBC News

The World Health Organization previously labelled diesel exhausts as probably carcinogenic

Exhaust fumes from diesel engines do cause cancer, a panel of experts working for the World Health Organization says.

It concluded that the exhausts were definitely a cause of lung cancer and may also cause tumours in the bladder.

It based the findings on research in high-risk workers such as miners, railway workers and truck drivers.

However, the panel said everyone should try to reduce their exposure to diesel exhaust fumes.

The International Agency for Research on Cancer, a part of the World Health Organization, had previously labelled diesel exhausts as probably carcinogenic to humans.

IARC has now labelled exhausts as a definite cause of cancer, although it does not compare how risky different carcinogens are. Diesel exhausts are now in the same group as carcinogens ranging from wood chippings to plutonium and sunlight to alcohol.

It is thought people working in at-risk industries have about a 40% increased risk of developing lung cancer.

Dr Christopher Portier, who led the assessment, said: "The scientific evidence was compelling and the Working Group's conclusion was unanimous, diesel engine exhaust causes lung cancer in humans.

"Given the additional health impacts from diesel particulates, exposure to this mixture of chemicals should be reduced worldwide."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18415532

[CWMV]

Of course it does.
In fact, we should all just go back to dwelling in trees in Africa, totally remove any technology and go back to our roots.
Im so sick of these types.

But thanks OP, very interesting information indeed.

[Sven]

I stood in front of a stinking Porsche diesel last weekend, but I take it you don't count that one as a Porsche ;)

I do dislike those stinking small diesels driving around. And the sound makes my ears bleed. They should get rid of those as they don't serve any purpose here except for tax evasion, but what about trucks and trains, they can't live without diesel (yet), and adding even more taxes on the diesel fuel isn't helping anyone either. We still need transport, more dilemmas...

There is 100% Bio-diesel around, but not near enough for total conversion, and a lot of people might starve as well.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Its all relative. Are the diesel emmissons more or less or equally likely to cause cancer to gasoline?

Diesels are generally more efficient, so per kilometer they have less emissions than petrol. So that has to be good right?

What isn't there to love about diesels, you change the oil, drive them within their specifications and they go for ever. Pitty the fuel is so expensive where I live.

cheers!

[ATAG_Dutch]

What isn't there to love about diesels!

Hundreds of motorcyclists who've crashed due to spillages/leaks would say 'quite a bit, actually!'. ;)

[Bewolf]

Hundreds of motorcyclists who've crashed due to spillages/leaks would say 'quite a bit, actually!'. ;)

Sounds more like bad engeneering.

What the topic poster looks for is a fine particle filter. Problem solved.
Heavens, what some people here complain about all the time. When you find a problem, you fix it. Instead reactions here are "Bohoo, ppl want to ruin my life!". Pathethic.

[bongodriver]

Sounds more like bad engeneering.

What the topic poster looks for is a fine particle filter. Problem solved.
Heavens, what some people here complain about all the time. When you find a problem, you fix it. Instead reactions here are "Bohoo, ppl want to ruin my life!". Pathethic.

So very very true...

[swiss]

What the topic poster looks for is a fine particle filter.

No, actually it's attention.
Look at my super cool old Porsche - made by the brand that saves us all.

[Osprey]

Yes but it's better to all get lung cancer and pay for all of the global damage from the oil wars, crop failures, flooding, drought and famine than pander to the socialist climate change green loons who want us to all have efficient, gearless, smooth, quiet, hi-torque hydrogen FCV's with water fit to drink as the exhaust product. :rolleyes:

[MD_Titus]

if only there was some way to fund research into curing lung cancer...

[Skoshi Tiger]

Hundreds of motorcyclists who've crashed due to spillages/leaks would say 'quite a bit, actually!'. ;)

Hmmm, I've been driving motor cycles (and other vehicles including Diesel 4WD's) for thirty something years, I can't say diesel spills have been something I've noticed or worried about too much in my nick of the woods. Do you mean at petrol stations around the Diesel bowser?

Then again when I'm on my bike I might be too preoccupied with all the wallies hooning about in their cars trying to kill ME to notice?

[Skoshi Tiger]

if only there was some way to fund research into curing lung cancer...

Tax tobacco more?

[raaaid]

i just heard yesterday on the radio non brushing your teeth increases your risk of cancer an 80%

pushing forward the fluoride agenda ;)

[Kongo-Otto]

i just heard yesterday on the radio non brushing your teeth increases your risk of cancer an 80%

pushing forward the fluoride agenda ;)

So what?

i just heard yesterday on the radio non brushing your teeth increases your risk of an sexless life to 100%

Fluoride agenda my arse!

[swiss]

So what?

i just heard yesterday on the radio non brushing your teeth increases your risk of an sexless life to 100%

Fluoride agenda my arse!

lol, almost fell off my chair. :grin:

[ATAG_Dutch]

Do you mean at petrol stations around the Diesel bowser?

Not here in the UK mate. Almost every country road and main road roundabout is likely to have some diesel spillage. Nothing quite like negotiating a roundabout and both wheels saying 'ta-ta!' because some badly maintained or overfilled vehicle has dumped it's load.

It does tend to sting a little when you hit the floor.....:grin:

[Skoshi Tiger]

Not here in the UK mate. Almost every country road and main road roundabout is likely to have some diesel spillage. Nothing quite like negotiating a roundabout and both wheels saying 'ta-ta!' because some badly maintained or overfilled vehicle has dumped it's load.

It does tend to sting a little when you hit the floor.....:grin:

In the worst possible place! Ouch! I see your point. In a similar vein, my pet hate is the sand washing off building sites. It always seams to be on a bend!

[Outlaw]

Sounds more like bad engeneering.



I believe he's talking about the fact that diesel fuel will leave a slick stain whereas gasoline will not. It's not engineering related at all.

--Outlaw.

[Bewolf]

I believe he's talking about the fact that diesel fuel will leave a slick stain whereas gasoline will not. It's not engineering related at all.

--Outlaw.

If it spills out on roads, that is how I understood it, then it most likely is.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Of course it does.
In fact, we should all just go back to dwelling in trees in Africa, totally remove any technology and go back to our roots.
Im so sick of these types. +1

[Bewolf]

+1

Or maybe, you could just try to improve your technology.

But that would be to "progressive", I suppose.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

But that would be to "progressive", I suppose.
http://alittleleftofright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pilot-car-300x225.jpg
First step in doing so is to correct the lib definition of progress

[MD_Titus]

Tax tobacco more?

they'll never go for it, too socialist.

[Osprey]

http://alittleleftofright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pilot-car-300x225.jpg
First step in doing so is to correct the lib definition of progress

If anything it would be the combustion engine that fails that incline. Electric motors have more torque than you can shake a stick at. But if you like noise, smells, rising costs and reliance on the Arab world then keep drawing stupid obtuse cartoons.

[brando]

One of my best friends is a doctor (of medicine) who heads up a major department of the World Health Organisation. I think he would be disgusted by the (usual) politicisation of an organisation which has been invaluable to so many people in the world. Without their dedicated hard work many of the major diseases would have gone pandemic throughout the entire world by now. Yet some of you seem to confuse medicine with liberalism. Step back and see how pathetic your attitude is.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

If anything it would be the combustion engine that fails that incline. Electric motors have more torque than you can shake a stick at.
Ah I see where you are confused..

Note no where did anyone say anything about torque..

As for the picture, it was provided to highlight the fact that alternative fuels are a joke..

As in you will end up pushing your car if your counting on alternative fuels to power it..

Which is not to say alternatives fuels will allways be a joke.. There is some interesting stuff going on with alge based deisl fule production..

The point of all this is the goverment can not force it to happen

I am all for the goverment funding investagative projects into alternative fuels, what I dont aprove is them forcing it on people.

[Bewolf]

http://alittleleftofright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/pilot-car-300x225.jpg
First step in doing so is to correct the lib definition of progress

Note where you confuse "improvement" with "alternative".

Slowly I start to understand where the US economic problems have their roots.

But to actually tackle alternatives...
You see, there was a time when people used horses and carriages. Then came along a men called Benz. He inventend the automobile.
Man, those things stank, made noise and were slower then both horses and carriages. They broke down all the time. No future there, as so many of the people of that time said.

If only we had listened to them, just right now, the world would have been such a better place. Those darn "progressives".

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Slowly I start to understand
Better late than never! ;)

[beepee]

One of my best friends is a doctor (of medicine) who heads up a major department of the World Health Organisation. I think he would be disgusted by the (usual) politicisation of an organisation which has been invaluable to so many people in the world. Without their dedicated hard work many of the major diseases would have gone pandemic throughout the entire world by now. Yet some of you seem to confuse medicine with liberalism. Step back and see how pathetic your attitude is.hmmmmn! I have driven diesel trucks since 1956 -have always driven diesel cars-and am 75 years old-I havent got lung cancer -not got bladder cancer -have never fallen off my push bike due to deisel-I ride my push bike every day if I can -the main danger I find are women drivers who have knocked me off my bike 3 times in the last 5 years-so what does the WHO say about them then????

[Bewolf]

Better late than never! ;)

Aww come on Ace, at least add the impression of substance. You can't argue with semantics, that is no fun <=)

[Bewolf]

hmmmmn! I have driven diesel trucks since 1956 -have always driven diesel cars-and am 75 years old-I havent got lung cancer -not got bladder cancer -have never fallen off my push bike due to deisel-I ride my push bike every day if I can -the main danger I find are women drivers who have knocked me off my bike 3 times in the last 5 years-so what does the WHO say about them then????

Beepee, I have a lot of respect for the elderly.

But you ou will be suprised to be informed that most smokers do not get lung cancer. That does not mean that smoking does not increase the risk of lung cancer.

BBQ is a similiar case, that also increases the risk of cancer due to the agressive chemicals created by the burning process.

Nevertheless I both smoke and love a BBQ.

A warning does not harm. What you do with that warning then is completly up to you. But just to dismiss those warnings for feeling better or even attack the messenger won't reduce that risk. It is not ment as an attack on your personal way of life.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aww come on Ace, at least add the impression of substance. You can't argue with semantics, that is no fun <=)
Well all kidding aside..

The only thing sillier than thinking we would be better off without combution engines is thinking any of the worlds problems are going to be solved in a flight simming forum! ;)

[MadBlaster]

Did anyone point out the WHO pig flu scam yet?

[ATAG_Doc]

No but I just read that China is about to impound every European commercial aircraft on their soil in a dispute with the carbon trading scheme they are trying to start. Never thought I would find myself rooting for red China but I am.

I do love the smell of diesel in the morning. It is my next favorite behind napalm of course.

[Bewolf]

Well all kidding aside..

The only thing sillier than thinking we would be better off without combution engines is thinking any of the worlds problems are going to be solved in a flight simming forum! ;)

True, but it is fun to exchange opinions nevertheless, in good or competetive spirit. ;)
That aside, the world won't get rid of the combuistion engine anytime soon. But a start towards more efficient methods has to be made eventually. Combustion engines are terribly ineffective.

[rga]

When it comes to cancer, everything you can tell is risk. Of course a healthy lifestyle greatly reduces the risk of cancer, but that does not mean you will never get cancer no matter how healty you live.
It is somewhat scary to realize that, after thousands years of civilizations and technology advances, our body are still as vulnerable as ones of Caesar and his legionaries were.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

True, but it is fun to exchange opinions nevertheless, in good or competetive spirit. ;)
Agreed 100%

And if everyone realized that..

Than there would be no one here getting upset..

Yet there are those who do

Which leads me to belive they actually 'belive' they are 'doing' more than exchanging opinions in a good or competitive spirit! ;)


That aside, the world won't get rid of the combustion engine anytime soon.
If ever

But a start towards more efficient methods has to be made eventually.
If someone does, be sure the market will than make the move..

Where as the government forcing the move only makes for false fixes

Combustion engines are terribly ineffective.
Well until that day than..

http://www.phrases.org.uk/images/spock.jpg
Live Long and Prosper!

[Kongo-Otto]

Oh Diesel fumes cause lung cancer, really? *lights his next cigarette*
Shocking first world problems.

[Osprey]

Ah I see where you are confused..

Note no where did anyone say anything about torque..

First page.......
Yes but it's better to all get lung cancer and pay for all of the global damage from the oil wars, crop failures, flooding, drought and famine than pander to the socialist climate change green loons who want us to all have efficient, gearless, smooth, quiet, hi-torque hydrogen FCV's with water fit to drink as the exhaust product. :rolleyes:


As for the picture, it was provided to highlight the fact that alternative fuels are a joke..

As in you will end up pushing your car if your counting on alternative fuels to power it..

Which is not to say alternatives fuels will allways be a joke.. There is some interesting stuff going on with alge based deisl fule production..

The point of all this is the goverment can not force it to happen

I am all for the goverment funding investagative projects into alternative fuels, what I dont aprove is them forcing it on people.


It is hard to know where to begin when somebody is as ignorant as you on this subject, technologically and politically, but I can give you the benefit of the doubt that you may just be in the pay of an industry which would not benefit without change. You could well be brainwashed by them, or just be an idiot.

I don't expect you to be able to answer this but could you please remind us all what the most abundant element in the Universe is?

[kendo65]

My favourite remark on this subject is from the Young Ones:

Rick (to hippy Neil): Don't you ever sleep?
Neil: Sleep gives you cancer man. Everybody knows that!

Only slightly less funny, someone has compiled a website listing the Daily Mail's (Brit tabloid scare mongers) attempt to classify absolutely everything known to man as either a cancer cause or cure (and sometimes BOTH at the same time)

http://kill-or-cure.heroku.com/

[ATAG_Doc]

News Flash


Flying flight sims can cause blood clots and they can become dislodged and move to your brain and you could die of death!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Oh Diesel fumes cause lung cancer, really? *lights his next cigarette*
Shocking first world problems.
lol

[ACE-OF-ACES]

You could well be brainwashed by them, or just be an idiot.
Why is it the greenie liberals socialists get so upset and have to resort to name calling when someone disagrees with them?

[Osprey]

I didn't call you any names, that is unless you are confessing to being the 'idiot' out of the choices you had in front of you. Still, that didn't stop you from calling me a 'greenie liberal socialist' in the same sentence :rolleyes: I prefer 'progressive' myself, that's opposite to 'luddite', those same sorts of people who opposed the train by claiming nonsense such as people would disintegrate if they travelled at over 30mph.

What I find ironic is that you are calling others socialists and liberals but then suggest that central Government fund development? Isn't that just what socialism is? Also, 'liberal' means believing in personal choice and freedom, so again, another oxymoron from you. You don't want it 'rammed down your throat' but you aren't a liberal?

Please try to understand the meanings of the words you are choosing because tbh it's making you look a bit dim old boy.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

I didn't call you any names
What ever gets you to sleep at night.. Eitherway, I just find it funny how you and yours have to resort to such tatics with anyone that disagrees with you.. Would be funny if it wasnt so sad.. Too bad too because it is an interesting topic.

[beepee]

Well all kidding aside..

The only thing sillier than thinking we would be better off without combution engines is thinking any of the worlds problems are going to be solved in a flight simming forum! ;)well ace dont you think this a better discussion -than say the latest f,ms of spit an 109 thats getting a bit long in the tooth now after 15 months(haha!)

[Sternjaeger II]

on a side note, the "diesel spillage" is also the excuse number one for poor bike riders ;)

[pencon]

I'm sure if I chugged a pnt or two of diesel it would be bad for me so I better stick to chuggin a few pints of gasoline . Anyway I'm keeping my duramax , the who can go pound salt . I'm sure that when iran and Israel go at it in the near future along with pretty much everybody , the accompying nuclear fallout will also cause cancer .

[pencon]

Why is it the greenie liberals socialists get so upset and have to resort to name calling when someone disagrees with them? Because that's how they roll .

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Because that's how they troll .
Fixed that for ya! S! ;)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

well ace dont you think this a better discussion -than say the latest f,ms of spit an 109 thats getting a bit long in the tooth now after 15 months(haha!)
Well at least this is a flight sim forum..

So one would expect people to post on flight sim 'things'..

And in doing so, expect, or at least hope to have some sort of impact on flight sim 'things'

But anything beyond that is.. well.. hate to say it but silly! ;)

[Osprey]

What ever gets you to sleep at night.. Eitherway, I just find it funny how you and yours have to resort to such tatics with anyone that disagrees with you.. Would be funny if it wasnt so sad.. Too bad too because it is an interesting topic.

When you mean 'tactics' you must mean knowledge.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

When you mean 'tactics' you must mean knowledge.
If believing that makes you feel better about yourself..

More power to you!

No skin off my back..

All I ask is that in the future, if you really want to carry on a conversation with someone..

You would do well to set your troll like tendency aside..

Where you present the person your talking to with only two options to choose from (brainwashed or idiot)..

And than sit back and act surprised or worse yet try to play the part of the victim when said person calls you on your troll like actions.

Because your not fooling anyone here

Just a thought!

[Osprey]

Let's just recap. You post a picture deriding future technology and people that want to move forward with it calling them names. When you get called something back you flip out and play victim?

Why don't you present us with at least something which shows that you understand the topic you are debunking and maybe then we might take you seriously because tbh you seem to be just completely obtuse on this. How else can one answer you? Better still, since you don't want to have these new technologies (which aren't new btw) rammed down your throat then please take the time to write to Ford, Honda, Toyota etc etc and let them know that they are wasting their time and money. You'll save millions for us all.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Let's just recap.
Ok Lets

You post a picture deriding future technology and people that want to move forward with it calling them names.
So let me see if I understand you correctly..

When I replied to Bewolf (not you) comment about improving technology..

By posting a picture of a guy pushing an alternative fuel vehical up a hill..

With the note that the first step would be to correct the lib definition of progress..

You consider that name calling?

Nice try..

But your still not fooling anyone

When you get called something back you flip out and play victim?
Nope, I never tried to play the part of the victim.. I simply pointed out how people like you have to resort to calling people names (brainwashed or idiot) when someone does not agree with you..

So you get a gold star for 'spin' effort

But no sale!

[Bewolf]

Agreed 100%

And if everyone realized that..

Than there would be no one here getting upset..

Yet there are those who do

Which leads me to belive they actually 'belive' they are 'doing' more than exchanging opinions in a good or competitive spirit! ;)

Takes a while to see though people on the internet without a way to watch their expressions and gestics in person. Hell, it took me a while, hehe.


If ever


It is inevitable. Natural ressources are not infinite. "When" is debateable, the eventuality is not.
And as said before, combustion engines are way too ineffective. Two thirds of the energy in petrol is completly wasted. Thrown away for nothing.


If someone does, be sure the market will than make the move..

Where as the government forcing the move only makes for false fixes


That is a too dogmatic approach to market rules and too short sighted.
The market only reacts when under pressure and the development takes years, if not decades. We are in an ecomic downturn and still prices as oil are high as hardly ever before. Imagine what happens when the global demand rises again? And that situation won't get better anymore, as oil is ever harder to come by, and as such ever more expensive as well. When the day comes you better already have an alternative handy instead of only starting development then.

Btw, a curious tidbit, Gulf (=oil exporting) nations are heavly investing in renewables.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

It is inevitable. Natural ressources are not infinite
Well not limiting myself ot natural ressources..

As I noted earlier, they are doing some neat stuff with algae to produce diesel..

If they can make that process work with salt water.. than the we won't have to worry for a very long time..

If it it limited to fresh water, well than it is a nogo from the getgo. ;)

[Bewolf]

Well not limiting myself ot natural ressources..

As I noted earlier, they are doing some neat stuff with algae to produce diesel..

If they can make that process work with salt water.. than the we won't have to worry for a very long time..

If it it limited to fresh water, well than it is a nogo from the getgo. ;)

Nothing against investments in Diesel producing algae, can't hurt to have more "alternatives", though if you are pro investements in this department, then why not in others as well? Especially if they are more energy efficient and thus cheaper in the long run?

[Osprey]

People can read the thread if they want to. I consider calling people 'soc lib greenies' a name, but you appear to be struggling with all of your definitions today.

You are being just like Crumpp here, writhing for each reply and you don't even realise it. I'm not wasting my time any further, regardless of your knowledge of other topics when it comes to this one it's clear to me that you are just ignorant and a bit of a luddite. It's a shame because you are going to get awfully upset one whatever happens - that is either when you have to pay way more for your fuel or that the World fills up with alternative powered vehicles. What bad luck.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

People can read the thread if they want to. I consider calling people 'soc lib greenies' a name, but you appear to be struggling with all of your definitions today.
So what part of me calling you a 'soc lib greenies' AFTER you said I was either BRAINWASHED or an IDIOT do you NOT understand?

Again, gold star for spin effort

But no sale

[kendo65]

The Global Warming thread has been locked!!

Thank God for that...well JG52_Uther actually.

Why is it the greenie liberals socialists get so upset and have to resort to name calling when someone disagrees with them?

Here's a very honest answer. It's mainly because when you lot you are faced with evidence that you are wrong you don't respond reasonably - that is by either:

1. Producing convincing evidence of your own, or
2. Admitting you are wrong.

Instead you rely on ever-widening conspiracy theories, or you just resort to calling the other person 'socialist'.

You think you are engaging in debate, but all you are really doing is finding different ways to say: "I know what I believe and nothing is going to change it".

Eventually people get fed up.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Here's a very honest answer. It's mainly because when you lot you are faced with evidence that you are wrong you don't respond reasonably - that is by either:

1. Producing convincing evidence of your own, or
2. Admitting you are wrong.
If believing that makes you feel better about yourself..

More power to you!

No skin off my back..

[Osprey]

LMAO! Whatever Crumpp MkII

[kendo65]

Aces, that really is why we eventually get angry - really!

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Aces, that really is why we eventually get angry - really!
Oh I understand that is what you belive..

Just don't expect everyone to agree with you..

Which is the root of why you and yours get so upset that they have to resort to name calling like Opray

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Nothing against investments in Diesel producing algae, can't hurt to have more "alternatives", though if you are pro investments in this department, then why not in others as well? Especially if they are more energy efficient and thus cheaper in the long run?
I am all for investment in alternatives in the form of research..

In that MOST adults here understand that there is no such thing as pure capitalism or pure communism/socialism..

Which explains why you will see capitalism 'governments' like the US taking tax dollars and spending it on said research instead of only the market place spending on said research in a pure capitalism system..

Where I draw the line is when the government takes this 'research' and forces these alternatives into/onto the market place..

In that it does not solve the problem, if anything it distorts it!

Ethanol is a perfect example of that kind of boondoggle

In that there should be a point that after the research is done

If the 'product' can not stand on it's own in the market place without subsidies from the goverment

Than said product should be dropped

[raaaid]

i turned off a job offer for biodiesel

personal responsabilty of not stealing the poor

[ACE-OF-ACES]

i turned off a job offer for biodiesel

personal responsabilty of not stealing the poor
LOL

Let me guess..

Your going to make a SAVE THE POOR ALGAE T-shirt?

Stick to your dreams raaaid.. that is what you do best! ;)

[GraveyardJimmy]

If the 'product' can not stand on it's own in the market place without subsidies from the goverment

Than said product should be dropped

Including US farming?

[raaaid]

as any good wwii enthusiast you will know ethanol is made from corn

http://media.treehugger.com/assets/images/2011/10/corn-worse-than-oil-california.jpg

[ATAG_Doc]

Including US farming?

What??!? Why do they subsidize farmers???

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Including US farming?
Especially US farming!

[ATAG_Bliss]

This is a funny thread. :)

What on Earth doesn't cause cancer? How about that cell phone next to your brain etc.

Anyhow as a huge diesel fan, here's my old one - made 600RWHP and I could "soot" up a car next to me in a heartbeat :)

I loved those summer days when people had their windows down rockin some ridiculous bass note that was shaking me in my seat. It's really fun to watch a wall of black smoke go into their drivers window and come out the passenger side. Diesels are a blast, especially when you do some serious work to them.

Notice how the pistons were hitting the valves. Hilarious to find out that a Shelby Cobra 5.4 32v valve springs not only fit perfectly on this Navistar diesel, but also give enough seat pressure to stop the floating at high RPM. Retainers, keepers, etc., all matched up perfectly lol.

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5851/img0381cj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/812/img0381cj.jpg/)

Yes - that's Chrysler green ;)

http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/4624/img0380pf.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/811/img0380pf.jpg/)

And here's my newest one - it's rockin' 700RWHP - It blows the tires loose at 70mph and can still get 20mpg. Pretty fun.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9716/dsc00046lq.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/dsc00046lq.jpg/)

Moral of the story - You don't know what you're missing until you've drove something with 60+ pounds of boost :)

[ACE-OF-ACES]

nice

[baronWastelan]

I loved those summer days when people had their windows down rockin some ridiculous bass note that was shaking me in my seat. It's really fun to watch a wall of black smoke go into their drivers window and come out the passenger side.

I have to admit that does sound like a lot of fun. In theory at least. I would also consider adding something to the fuel to give the smoke a rotten egg smell. Is that technically feasible?

[ATAG_Doc]

He broke it because I smoked him on this.

http://i.imgur.com/Ybaum.jpg

[ATAG_Bliss]

I have to admit that does sound like a lot of fun. In theory at least. I would also consider adding something to the fuel to give the smoke a rotten egg smell. Is that technically feasible?

Oh it is. You can paint someone's interior black in a matter of seconds. :)

As far as for the smell I image you could put some sort of additive to give the exhaust a nasty smell as long as it still had lubricity.

The earliest one I had was a 7.3 (the original powerstroke DI). The injectors fired off of 110 DC Volts, so you could imagine the size of the injector / nozzle compared to the newer Huey setups firing with 20-50 DC volts.

My old 7.3 ran 100% off of used transmission fluid, used oil, power steering fluid, gas, you name it. If I drained it I threw it in the tank. Just imagine changing your oil and putting it in the fuel tank of your truck when you're done!

I had three 55 gallon drums at home filled up at all times as I would just take the used oil away from some of my dealership buddies holding tanks. I didn't use a drop of diesel fuel for almost 3 years with that truck. No drivability issues, unusual smoking, etc. But you could definitely smell it. More fuel filter changes, but that's about it.

Another buddy of mine owns a restaurant and ran his old 7.3 on straight fryer grease. It was hilarious as every where he went, his truck smelled like a fast food joint.

Sadly, the newer models have a much smaller nozzle, not to mention 5000 - 6000 lbs of fuel pressure at idle, in the heads, as they aren't fired off of oil pressure anymore. So lobbing some old 15w40 in there can cause some headaches. It's not worth it anymore.

[ATAG_Bliss]

He broke it because I smoked him on this.

http://i.imgur.com/Ybaum.jpg

Haha - It was the yellow on that cub that scared me ;)

[Bewolf]

And while the infantiles enjoy their playtools, the righting paper "the Economists" brought this article as a cover story:

http://www.economist.com/node/21556921

[ATAG_Bliss]

And while the infantiles enjoy their playtools, the righting paper "the Economists" brought this article as a cover story:

http://www.economist.com/node/21556921

Infantiles? Better look in the mirror. I guess the parts powering your pc were made without fossil fuels or the power used to allow you to post, electricity in your house etc.?

You are the definition of a hypocrite and your holier than thou attitude is laughable.

[Osprey]

He's saying that it's infantile to take pleasure in purposefully blasting fumes and toxic dirt into a strangers car because you don't like a couple of minutes of their music. I guess this is what you call 'freedom' in the USA, I would just close the window.

[ATAG_Bliss]

He's saying that it's infantile to take pleasure in purposefully blasting fumes and toxic dirt into a strangers car because you don't like a couple of minutes of their music. I guess this is what you call 'freedom' in the USA, I would just close the window.

That's not what I read. The word play tools sounds like he's referring to those whos hobbies consist of toys that burn fossil fuels.

And if you'd read what I wrote I said bass. No amount of closing your windows is going to block out the resonance or vibration caused by some system with some high numbers in SPL.

It has nothing to do with freedom. But if some jackass is making my windows rattle while I'm sitting next to him, he's gonna get a bit right back from me.

[Bewolf]

Infantiles? Better look in the mirror. I guess the parts powering your pc were made without fossil fuels or the power used to allow you to post, electricity in your house etc.?

You are the definition of a hypocrite and your holier than thou attitude is laughable.

The usual death argument. Live like a stone age man or do not be taken seriously. Highly comfortable position, eh?

I still have to work and feed a family. The difference is that I am open to more efficient and sustainable ways of doing that, you are not. Try again.

[ATAG_Bliss]

The usual death argument. Live like a stone age man or do not be taken seriously. Highly comfortable position, eh?

I still have to work and feed a family. The difference is that I am open to more efficient and sustainable ways of doing that, you are not. Try again.

More efficient and sustainable ways? My 9000lb truck gets 20mpg. That's around 7 more than stock. You act as if you know me and how green I am. If you think my vehicle passion is somehow making me a fossil fuel using shill.

I'll put up my power bill any day of the week and I guarantee you I use far less energy than you do. Not only are you a hypocrite you stereotype people because you dont have the 1st clue what you are talking about. Perhaps read the part where I said I ran my old truck without going to the pump for 3 years straight. Every ounce of fuel being from oil I recycled.

One thing you're not going to do is think you possibly know me or my lifestyle. Make your baseless accusations and inuindos on someone that feeds into the crap spewing out of your mouth.

Hypocrite of the tallest order.

[Bewolf]

More efficient and sustainable ways? My 9000lb truck gets 20mpg. That's around 7 more than stock. You act as if you know me and how green I am. If you think my vehicle passion is somehow making me a fossil fuel using shill.

I'll put up my power bill any day of the week and I guarantee you I use far less energy than you do. Not only are you a hypocrite you stereotype people because you dont have the 1st clue what you are talking about. Perhaps read the part where I said I ran my old truck without going to the pump for 3 years straight. Every ounce of fuel being from oil I recycled.

One thing you're not going to do is think you possibly know me or my lifestyle. Make your baseless accusations and inuindos on someone that feeds into the crap spewing out of your mouth.

Hypocrite of the tallest order.

Funny how you insist of me not knowing you, but in the same post guaranteeing you are using less energy then me. You really should be more careful whom you call a hypocrite while smashing the windows of your glass house.

And yes, if a guy comes storming into a debate over efficient fuel and the eventuality of running out of fuel reserves posting oversized "in your face!" pictures of trucks and engines, then the stereotyping comes mighty easily. But of course you knew that.

Recycled oil does not make Diesel engines more efficient. You still waste the energy.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Funny how you insist of me not knowing you, but in the same post guaranteeing you are using less energy then me. You really should be more careful whom you call a hypocrite while smashing the windows of your glass house.

And yes, if a guy comes storming into a debate over efficient fuel and the eventuality of running out of fuel reserves posting oversized "in your face!" pictures of trucks and engines, then the stereotyping comes mighty easily. But of course you knew that.

Recycled oil does not make Diesel engines more efficient. You still waste the energy.

You somehow amaze me each time you post. I know I use less emery because 50% of the time I sleep where the soldiers do, in a field, in a tent. My power bill is never over $50 a month.

And once again you show your lack of knowledge regarding oil, but I'll give you a hint. There's more energy wasted in refining diesel fuel than bulk oil. Even better there's absolutely no energy spent refining in using oil that's already been used.

So cliff notes so you might get it: Less energy is used over all when using bulk oil compared to a refined fuel. Even better, no refining energy is used when your fuel has already been used.

I can't wait for your next uninformed post showing you don't have the 1st clue about anything. Perhaps do some research before you put your foot in your mouth once again.

[Osprey]

Being a musician in a rock band Bliss I know a reasonable amount about sound, certainly more than your average Joe does and if you had enough windows you would block it out, even base, but I'd doubt it's worth the effort. The point I was making was that you live in a society and you make a contribution to that and what goes around comes around. If everybody was nicer to each other then perhaps you wouldn't be blasted by bass and feel the need to have a pop back.

20mpg is absolute crap. My diesel gets averages 50mpg, which is still not enough for my liking. Try a smaller engine, you can get just as many speeding tickets with it.

[SlipBall]

You somehow amaze me each time you post. I know I use less emery because 50% of the time I sleep where the soldiers do, in a field, in a tent. My power bill is never over $50 a month.

And once again you show your lack of knowledge regarding oil, but I'll give you a hint. There's more energy wasted in refining diesel fuel than bulk oil. Even better there's absolutely no energy spent refining in using oil that's already been used.

So cliff notes so you might get it: Less energy is used over all when using bulk oil compared to a refined fuel. Even better, no refining energy is used when your fuel has already been used.

I can't wait for your next uninformed post showing you don't have the 1st clue about anything. Perhaps do some research before you put your foot in your mouth once again.



Don't waste you time Bliss...are you a fellow member?:cool:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

[ATAG_Bliss]

Being a musician in a rock band Bliss I know a reasonable amount about sound, certainly more than your average Joe does and if you had enough windows you would block it out, even base, but I'd doubt it's worth the effort. The point I was making was that you live in a society and you make a contribution to that and what goes around comes around. If everybody was nicer to each other then perhaps you wouldn't be blasted by bass and feel the need to have a pop back.

20mpg is absolute crap. My diesel gets averages 50mpg, which is still not enough for my liking. Try a smaller engine, you can get just as many speeding tickets with it.

I understand the music thing as well. I dabble a bit with my guitars. ;)

I use the truck to pull/haul anything from my race car to farm equipment. 10-30k pounds. You're not gonna do that with a car. But 20mpg for the size and weight is really good. I understand karma. Trust me, I'm never the instigator.

Don't waste you time Bliss...are you a fellow member?:cool:
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/index.php

I probably am. I think that's where I found out the wiring to install the 2011 f150 mirrors on the 04-08's. I have an 06 fx4 as well (f150) and can finally see like in 250. No blind spots! If you have an f150 it's the best thing you could ever do. 154 a piece from taska (heated,power, turn indicator, puddle light, extending and folding.

I mainly frequent the coral as I'm a huge mustang nut. Gotta a twin turbo sn95 with 2600RWHP that's almost done, amongst a few other street cars. I just enjoy building them, working with my hands etc.

Edit: here's the link. Best investment ever http://www.f150online.com/forums/2004-2008-f-150/321297-telescoping-trailer-towing-mirrors-finally.html

[Bewolf]

You somehow amaze me each time you post. I know I use less emery because 50% of the time I sleep where the soldiers do, in a field, in a tent. My power bill is never over $50 a month.

I pay 90€ every three months. That comes down to 30 each. Try again


And once again you show your lack of knowledge regarding oil, but I'll give you a hint. There's more energy wasted in refining diesel fuel than bulk oil. Even better there's absolutely no energy spent refining in using oil that's already been used.

A diesel engine still wastes two thirds of the energy potential. That you reuse oil does not change that fact. Combustion engines are extremely inefficient, not matter what recycling construction you put around that.


So cliff notes so you might get it: Less energy is used over all when using bulk oil compared to a refined fuel. Even better, no refining energy is used when your fuel has already been used.

Less energy is used. But we are not talking refining, we are talking engine efficiency. Your topic is a completly different ball game.


I can't wait for your next uninformed post showing you don't have the 1st clue about anything. Perhaps do some research before you put your foot in your mouth once again.

Hit a soft spot, hm? Coming into this thread, flags waving, trumpets roaring and then complaining about according treatment? Hint, if you want to punch, better be prepared to suck up some pain in return.

[ATAG_Bliss]

I pay 90€ every three months. That comes down to 30 each. Try again



A diesel engine still wastes two thirds of the energy potential. That you reuse oil does not change that fact. Combustion engines are extremely inefficient, not matter what recycling construction you put around that.



Less energy is used. But we are not talking refining, we are talking engine efficiency. Your topic is a completly different ball game.



Hit a soft spot, hm? Coming into this thread, flags waving, trumpets roaring and then complaining about according treatment? Hint, if you want to punch, better be prepared to suck up some pain in return.

My last energy bill was $14. Again you use more than I do.

And talking about the efficiency of a combustion engine has nothing to do with subject of how much energy is used between refined at the pump than recycled oil. Good try. Here's a hint. I build race cars. Just gonna go out on a limb and say you probably don't know 0.01% of what I know about a combustion engine or well anything really, about a car.

There's no pain to suck up. Once again you put your foot in your mouth from lack of knowledge.

[swiss]

Gotta a twin turbo sn95 with 2600RWHP that's almost done,[.]


That's a typo, right? http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c025.gif (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/smilie.php)

[swiss]

Bliss and Be: You should discuss kWh, not $ or euros. Energy prices tend vary... ;)

Combustion engines are extremely inefficient, not matter what recycling construction you put around that.

true, any alternatives?

[ATAG_Bliss]

That's a typo, right? http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c025.gif (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/smilie.php)

No typo - just need to finish some of the turbo piping, induction, and some of the wiring.

(warning - I'm posting a picture of my car on the internet. My trumpets are blazing!)

http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/4650/photo4tn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/406/photo4tn.jpg/)

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8791/photo5yz.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/photo5yz.jpg/)

[Sven]

That's one hell of a race car you have there Bliss. I still fool around with 2 stroke engines :oops:

[JG52Krupi]

Hey Hasselhoff when are you going to paint it black and install KITT?

:P

[swiss]

cute lil' turbos...
http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c020.gif (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/smilie.php)


I'm soooo looking foward to a dyno vid.

[ATAG_Bliss]

That's one hell of a race car you have there Bliss. I still fool around with 2 stroke engines :oops:

Well I'm just an idiot and dump all my money into these things lol.

Hey Hasselhoff when are you going to paint it black and install KITT?

:P

I actually just bought a black one and it's running! I usually don't do that but I got one hell of a deal. It's actually getting loaded up on transport tomorrow to ship to me. 5 day ship :-x :)

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7499/photo9y.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/528/photo9y.jpg/)

Not quite KITT, but it's an anderson PMS (programmable on the fly, your own tunes, fuel curves, timings etc)

http://img825.imageshack.us/img825/148/photo1wii.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/825/photo1wii.jpg/)

Here's an old video after the original owner just got the engine/car together. It's not tuned, obviously running very rich etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPpvN_DkItI





cute lil' turbos...
http://www.cheesebuerger.de/images/smilie/konfus/c020.gif (http://www.cheesebuerger.de/smilie.php)


I'm soooo looking foward to a dyno vid.

I'm gonna do a video of going through the drive through with it. I fully intend to drive it on the street a bit ;)

[Bewolf]

My last energy bill was $14. Again you use more than I do.

And talking about the efficiency of a combustion engine has nothing to do with subject of how much energy is used between refined at the pump than recycled oil. Good try. Here's a hint. I build race cars. Just gonna go out on a limb and say you probably don't know 0.01% of what I know about a combustion engine or well anything really, about a car.

There's no pain to suck up. Once again you put your foot in your mouth from lack of knowledge.

Please, by all means, I am bowing to your expert knowledge. Enlighten me, what is the energy effiency of a regular combustion engine?

[swiss]

Please, by all means, I am bowing to your expert knowledge. Enlighten me, what is the energy effiency of a regular combustion engine?

Doesn't matter, given the fact we don't have alternatives.

...and don't even consider mentioning the prius.

[Bewolf]

Doesn't matter, given the fact we don't have alternatives.

...and don't even consider mentioning the prius.

Read the thread, swiss. This debate was about the "development" of alternatives for exactly the reasons cited above.

In regards to Bliss still lacking an answer:

http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/231342/530wm/H6300115-Dart_bursting_balloon-SPL.jpg

'nough said.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Read the thread, swiss. This debate was about the "development" of alternatives for exactly the reasons cited above.

In regards to Bliss still lacking an answer:

http://www.sciencephoto.com/image/231342/530wm/H6300115-Dart_bursting_balloon-SPL.jpg

'nough said.

You got me. I know absolutely nothing about engines. :rolleyes:

[Osprey]

I use the truck to pull/haul anything from my race car to farm equipment. 10-30k pounds. You're not gonna do that with a car. But 20mpg for the size and weight is really good. I understand karma. Trust me, I'm never the instigator.

[/url]

Over here we leave that for the truckers and farmers ;)

In fact you should be cheering for alternatives. Sounds like you need torque and no motor produces more torque than electric - way way more than diesel. You know those big diesel locomotives for pulling freight? The engine only drives a generator and not the wheels. That 'leccy gets piped straight to multiple motors on the wheels, and no gearing.

Many of the electric cars now are using this approach, batteries supplemented by small petrol motors generating electricity by running at their best power when required. Never driven one but it apparently sounds weird accelerating with the rpm constant.

[Bewolf]

You got me. I know absolutely nothing about engines. :rolleyes:

Nothing at least of any substance but "I know about engines and you do not!"
....yet.

[raaaid]

Please, by all means, I am bowing to your expert knowledge. Enlighten me, what is the energy effiency of a regular combustion engine?

18%

electric 90%*karnot elecric factory40%=40%eficiency globally

18% eficiency of petrofuels cars and 40% electric vars

[ACE-OF-ACES]

You are the definition of a hypocrite and your holier than thou attitude is laughable.
Bingo

[MadBlaster]

Notice how the pistons were hitting the valves. Hilarious to find out that a Shelby Cobra 5.4 32v valve springs not only fit perfectly on this Navistar diesel, but also give enough seat pressure to stop the floating at high RPM. Retainers, keepers, etc., all matched up perfectly lol.



did you swap your camshaft?

[Kongo-Otto]

18%

electric 90%*karnot elecric factory40%=40%eficiency globally

18% eficiency of petrofuels cars and 40% electric vars

¿Habla inglés?
Parla inglese?
Sprechen sie Englisch?
Do you speak english?
Parlez-vous anglais?
If not go and learn it! plonker!
:rolleyes:

[raaaid]

oh im learning my studied were based on feminist literature and why is wrong to be a man but im learning the language now ;)

the term plonker started out as a reference to someone who was forever drunk on cheap wine (cheap wine is nicknamed plonk)

edit:

i meant that globally electric cars have an eficiency of 40% while combustion engine 18%

edit:

but well this is political nonsense im brainwashed

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwUgK2Vy_kk

edit:

also the real reason cause the electric car is supressed is that they are very silent, so to not make them dangerous IT WOULD BE MANDATORY GO WITH VERY LOUD MUSIC

if the hippies acore that point the end of the world will be a comune of hippies dressed in psicodelic clothes and playing pink floyd at full volume

[Kurfürst]

Diesel is for people having a secret fetish for driving a tractor anyways.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Diesel is for people having a secret fetish for driving a tractor anyways.
http://pikecountymotorsports.webs.com/photos/HOT-GIRL-FRIDAY/TractorGirl.jpg
Agreed 100%

[raaaid]

oh thats an outstanding troll lfmao

[5./JG27.Farber]

Hmmm, I've been driving motor cycles (and other vehicles including Diesel 4WD's) for thirty something years, I can't say diesel spills have been something I've noticed or worried about too much in my nick of the woods. Do you mean at petrol stations around the Diesel bowser?

Then again when I'm on my bike I might be too preoccupied with all the wallies hooning about in their cars trying to kill ME to notice?

I had an experience of a diesel spill on my er5, on a round about, back end went all over the place. Wibble wobble, kinda like a high side tank slapper... I managed to stay on although I had no idea wtf was going on...

Diesel is very hard to see and extremely slippery. What happens is you get a hol car drivers that lose or break their fuel cap so just drive without one. When they go round a corner the diesel rushes to one side then the other and squirts out of the filling cap... The major problem is its just so hard to see! Its not like a squased tin can on a corner or wet iron works on drains... Its practically invisable.

[Bewolf]

http://pikecountymotorsports.webs.com/photos/HOT-GIRL-FRIDAY/TractorGirl.jpg
Agreed 100%

Keep the tractor, I will take the meat :D

[bongodriver]

Tractor?

[swiss]

that meat is already a tad too dark for my taste, i prefer bleu.
...I would also never touch a Brazilian, then again that's just me.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Nothing at least of any substance but "I know about engines and you do not!"
....yet.

Yeah, you're right. Building a high performance engine from the ground up, fabricating anything from the intake to the plumbing, valve covers, fly cutting the pistons, and then of course, being able to tune it electronically.

Nah, I don't know anything about engine theory let alone a retarded question asking how efficient a combustion engine is.

Another hint for the hopeless: You kinda gotta know an engine's efficiency before you ever think you can some how tune it to run, let alone tune it for maximum safe horsepower.

I'm honestly starting to think you are a complete imbecile. I really do feel sorry for you. You just don't have the 1st clue and you prove it time and time again.

[ATAG_Bliss]

did you swap your camshaft?

No. There's no point. It's just a matter of weak seat pressure and high rpm's that wouldn't allow the valves to close fast enough to clear the oncoming compression/exhaust stroke.

The good thing about that engine is the valve seat is parallel to the piston. So the only thing that happens when the piston hits it is it slammed back into the seat/guide.

Any other engine and all there would've been a catastrophe.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Over here we leave that for the truckers and farmers ;)

In fact you should be cheering for alternatives. Sounds like you need torque and no motor produces more torque than electric - way way more than diesel. You know those big diesel locomotives for pulling freight? The engine only drives a generator and not the wheels. That 'leccy gets piped straight to multiple motors on the wheels, and no gearing.

Many of the electric cars now are using this approach, batteries supplemented by small petrol motors generating electricity by running at their best power when required. Never driven one but it apparently sounds weird accelerating with the rpm constant.

My family has been farming for generations. We're what you call the midwest corn/soybean producers.

I don't understand how you would hire a trucker to move your car though? I'm sure there's gotta be race teams in Europe that surely own their own tow equipment? It wouldn't exactly be cost effective to call up said trucker and say "load up all these tools, spare parts, get the car ready" and then drive (depending on where the race is) 200-2500mi and then have him sit there all weekend long while you qualify, race, possibly get tore down, etc.

Every single drag racer I know owns some sort of truck and trailer to haul to the race. Some guys have 18 wheelers. Some have enclosed trailers they pull with the diesels (what I do) and some guys have open trailers they pull with a lighter gas truck.

As far as electrical power, the majority of it is still being made by the burning of fossil fuels. It doesn't matter if it's in the form of a battery, capacitor, or alternate current. You're not saving much. Obviously the trains need the huge gear reduction motors or they couldn't pull themselves. There's many smaller applications for this on many modern cars today. Fly by wire throttle bodies have an electric reduction motor (direct current) and my diesel for instance has the VGT controlled by the same principle. But you're not going to get that setup in a car anytime soon. We're still in the maximize profits in the shortest amount of time stage.

I'm well aware we are going to run out of oil, but when you have businesses that fill tankers up with milk in china to ship it have way across the world just so that said business can undercut a dairy in the same country by 10c a gallon, in other words, wasting more fossil fuels in one trip than I could possible burn for 20 years, there's not much you or I is going to do about it.

I'm not about to stop my joy, because I extended the end of oil production by 0.00003 seconds.

[MadBlaster]

No. There's no point. It's just a matter of weak seat pressure and high rpm's that wouldn't allow the valves to close fast enough to clear the oncoming compression/exhaust stroke.

The good thing about that engine is the valve seat is parallel to the piston. So the only thing that happens when the piston hits it is it slammed back into the seat/guide.

Any other engine and all there would've been a catastrophe.

sure. non interference engine they call it. thought I would point it out just in case changing springs wasn't enough. changing the cam profile to steeper slope will shorten the time the valve is held open. if you end up needing a valve job, well you'll know soon enough. good luck. ;)

[Kongo-Otto]

Diesel is for people having a secret fetish for driving a tractor anyways.

Yeah sure. :rolleyes:
Sorry couldn't find pic with hot babe. :grin:
Audi R18 tdi (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R18)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-9Vx_D0hTe-8/TejVKXZmmzI/AAAAAAAACD0/LAM38YWnGFE/s640/Audi+R18+TDI+2.jpg

[pencon]

What does bewolf know about cars? Well he knows his is red.

[WTE_Galway]

Speaking of tractors ...

... and Porsche Diesels ...


Aside from the current tractor-like 2012 Porsche Cayenee Diesel 4x4, the Porsche company also dabbled with a tractor lineup for a while ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Porsche_Traktor_Diesel_Super.jpg

[Kongo-Otto]

Speaking of tractors ...

... and Porsche Diesels ...


Aside from the current tractor-like 2012 Porsche Cayenee Diesel 4x4, the Porsche company also dabbled with a tractor lineup for a while ...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/82/Porsche_Traktor_Diesel_Super.jpg

Rare Collectors piece nowadays this 1960 Super 308. ;)