Bf 110 cockpit, Wahlschalter and bomb load.

[Kodoss]

Did anyone of you noticed that the 110 has the wrong cockpit?!

I just noticed it as I looked at the cabin heater w/o function.
I read in my book that the heater came with the E-1 series and a crosscheck in the handbook confirmed it.

Also the bombloads are to small. The 110 can also carry 2 SD1000.
The "Wahlschalter" to switch between 2MG and 4MG firing mode doesn't work either.

EDIT: Added Revi C12/D gunsight and Schwenkplatte SP 1A to the Bug-list.

Please vote for
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/313 Cockpit
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/314 bomb load
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/315 Wahlschalter
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/316 Revi C12/D and "Schwenkplatte SP 1A"
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/317 gear and flaps button auto pop out
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/125 Bombenzünder tag wrong description
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/123 Kühlerklappen switch
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/121 Prop-pitch automatic switch
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/120 Umschaltwarnung tag and lamps obsolet.
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/103 Bf 109 Bf 110 inverted prop pitch lever animation
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/88 MG 17 P.m.K ammunition
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/76 gunner view
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/65 cockpit gauges yellow glow
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/61 MG-FF/M

general:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/326 Gunner MG-Firing - setup - "bug"
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/327 Gunner MG-firing - Mouse mode - "feature"
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 100 Octane fuel for 4 groups Bf 110 and 1 group Bf 109

Obsolete ones:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/124 Heizung Tag description
This one is obsolete since C-series didn't had cabin heating. But I keep it for the E-Series (which might apeer in BoM)
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/41 Fuel distribution
Might be obsolete since it's correct build in. See posts #14 and following.


Edit: changed name to "Bf 110 Bug fest"

[robtek]

I don't know where you got the information about the bomb load, but no Bf110 C could carry 2000 kg as it is already above max. weight with 1000kg and 60% fuel.
Later on it could carry 8 x 50kg bombs.

[Kodoss]

@Robtek: so you wanna say that "D.(Luft)T.579/2" printed July 1940 and "D.(Luft)T.579/6" printed October 1940 given out from the german Luftwaffe are wrong?

Don't forget that those early ones doesn't have any heavy armor like the later ones.
And in the "D.(Luft)T.2110C, D und E; Bf 110 C, D und E Flugzeughandbuch Teil 8B Einbau und Prüfung der Abwurfwaffe; Heft 1" from May 1941 on page 5 under "Beschreibung" (description) you find:
"Die Rumpfabwurfwaffe kann beladen werden mit:
2x SC 250 kg Bombe oder
2x SD 500 kg Bombe oder
1x SD 1000 kg Bombe oder
1x SC 1000 kg Bombe und
___________1x SC 250 kg Bombe.

Die Flächenabwurfwaffe kann beladen werden mit:
4x SD 50 kg Bombe oder
4x BD C 10 (BD 10 Bündel mit 5 SC 10) oder
2x S 125 (Nebelgeräte)."

If you count 1xSC1000+1xSC250+4xSD50 together you get 1450kg.
Add the weight of the armor platings from '41 in the Bf 110 and you get your 2000kg.

Or take the Bf 110 D-1: 1050 l Fuel + 106 l Oil in the belly tank and 2x900 l in the ventral tanks = 2956 l >> 2056*0,78 = 2306 kg and thats only fuel/oil! and I didn't add the weight of the empty tanks.
also starting weight: 7,1 t, by overload 9,3 t

So it can carry 2xSD1000 bombs!!
They even made the undercarriage sturdier for that by the C-7.
Even the C-1/B with their weaker undercarriage could be attached with them, but if you could take off in one piece from a grassfield is another question.

[robtek]

Ok, Kodoss,

The possibility to carry 1 SC1000 or SD1000 and 1 SC250 at the center station came with the E model, not earlier. Same for the bombs at the wing stations.

Just because all possible bombloads are listed that doesn't mean that any combination was usable.

For the D1 with the "Dackelbauch", you know that usually the 20mm ammo was unloaded when taking of fully loaded?

The D model did also either had the "Dackelbauch" with 1050 l fuel and 106 l oil and the internal fuel-load of 1240 l (D-0, D-1/R1) OR later (D1/R2) a oil-tank at the center station and 2 x 900 l or with the D2 2 x sc500 center mounted and 2x 300 l wing mounted tanks.

All that is within the practical limits and no wishful thinking, imo.

[Kodoss]

Then it is strange to see a picture of a Bf 110 C (old color scheme only used until May, so refitted C-1 to C-1B, refitted early C-4 to C-7 or early C-7) in the Document "Bf 110 Bedienungs- und Beladevorschrift für die Abwurfwaffe - Ausgabe Juli 1940 - D.(Luft) T.579/2" with a SD 500 and SC 1000 on the belly.

Btw my source of info: http://www.luftfahrt-archiv-hafner.de/
search for:
"Messerschmitt Bf 110
Baureihen C,D,E,F,G
Technisches Kompendium
ISBN-13: 978-3-939847-49-6
LAH-CD-ROM-1050"

and

"Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410
Heinz Mankau/Peter Petrick
Aviatic Verlag
ISBN-10: 3-925505-62-8"

What is yours?

Also I know it would be horrible to even dare to fly an overloaded Bf 110 with 2x SD 1000. But it was possible to load them, so it should be possible to choose them.

Edit: I also added the Revi C12/D and the missing "Schwenkplatte SP 1A" to the bug-list. See 1. post.

[VO101_Tom]

...

hi. I sent you a private message. Did you read?

[Kodoss]

Yeah I read it, PM

[robtek]

To use a color scheme for a model identification is pretty vague, as the differences betweed C, D and E weren't that big, the old C could have been refurbished to any of the three series.

I don't have the D.(Luft)T.211, but as you have posted in #3 the combination 2 x SD1000 isn't mentioned -> isn't usable.

[Kodoss]

Beat the one who has written the manuals, but not me.

9705

All 3 manuals against each other.

And for "Bf 110 C, D und E Handbuch Teil 8B Heft 1" remember the additionally 200 kg for the 4 x SD 50!

And you still didn't show me your sources....

Edit: and for your info, the color scheme in the factories was changed as the C-4 and C-7 series started the production.

[Kodoss]

Before you scream: "show me the Picture!!"

9706

That's from "D.(Luft) T.579/2 Bf 110 Bedien- und Beladungsvorschrift für die Abwurfwaffe" July 1940!!!

[robtek]

Very interesting information, Kodoss.

Thanks for that.

[Kodoss]

Added Gear and flaps button auto pop out.

What a bugged aircraft...

[Kodoss]

I added now all the bugs regarding the Bf 110 from bugtracker in the first post.

regarding the fuel selector (bugtracker#41) I will check my manual again, because I remember to have seen other lever positions. Could be from a C-1 in mine, but I will check first.

[Kodoss]

As I thought, there's something off with the fuel selector.

from the BAL-manual Feb 1940
9734
This should be for C-1 and C-2 series. (tank pumps)

From the "Betriebsanleitung und Rüstanleitung" June 1939. (single pump)
9735

From "BAL Teil 12" but only for D-Series I think.
9736

And from the Kurz-Betriebsanleitung (KBA from Feb 40) an additional attachment from October 1942.
9737

The interresting is that in the KBA already 2 pumpsystems are mentioned.
An old one with a central pump and a new one with seperate pumps for the tanks.
The "Ersatzteilliste Teil 7" from Jan 1940 doesn't even list a single pump, only the valve switch and the tank pumps.

The only conclusion that I can see for this is, that the B-series and first and early C-1 C-2 had a single-pump. In production of early C-series the pumps-system was changed to seperate tank pumps with the valve switch.

And if you compare the valve switch system from the C-Series (C-1 C-2) with the D-Series, they also work differently. The E-series uses the same valve switch system as the D-series.

Mankau/Petrick mention in their book a change in the fuel pump system and problems with the quantity of them for the production of the D-series as a sidenote, but didn't go into detail. Maybe because of the "Dackelbauch" with 3 additional pumps, but that's only a speculation of me.

Did anyone has more info regarding this matter?

Edit: after looking more closely to the diagrams I realised that the 2. Pic shows the single pump system.
But there is still a difference between the switch position of C-series tank pumps and D-series in the drawings.

[IvanK]

Some info on the Fuel system from the Vultee engineering appraisal of a BF110C-5

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Bf110fuelvultee1.jpg

[IvanK]

This is my understanding of how I think the BF110 fuel system in game should work:

BF110 FUEL SYSTEM
The BF110 has a total of 4 fuel tanks, 2 in each wing. The 2 forward tanks are FEED tanks and provide fuel to each respective engine. The Two rear tanks are TRANSFER or reserve tanks they cannot feed the engines directly (see comment on the fuel cock levers later*). The TRANSFER tanks are used to top up the FEED tanks as required.

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/7848/bf110fuel.jpg

The Fuel cocks are on the left hand side as part of the throttle quadrant. Each lever has 3 settings. In normal use they are in the " P1 u P2" position. This then causes each FEED tank to feed its respective engine. These levers also serve as Priming pumps before start by way of wobble action. More research needed specifically to understand the diff between P1 and P2 and P1 u P2 positions. These are related I believe to the position of the Fuel transfer levers on the right sill panel. (*This may also allow a direct Engine feed from a TRANSFER tank... yet to find a good reference on this. It would make sense from a combat damage control point of view)

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1216/bf110fuels.jpg

Fuel distribution is controlled by the pilot using 2 levers mounted on the rear right Sill panel. These levers are rotated to point to the desired tank. The Front lever selects the required FEED tank. The Default or normal position is straight ahead. In this case each engine feed tank feeds its respective engine. (note this position is not presently selectable in the Sim)
The levers can be considered in a natural sense as "directional" type control. The front levers are where you want things to go and the rear levers where you want the transfer fuel to come from.

The Rear lever selects the desired TRANSFER tank and turns on its transfer pump. The centre position is the default or Normal position. In this case this results in each rear TRANSFER tank feeding its respective engine FEED tank automatically as fuel is used from the forward FEED tanks.
By using these levers the Pilot can transfer fuel from any RESERVE tank to any FEED tank.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Fuel1.jpg

The FEED tanks have a quantity of 375 litres each. The TRANSFER tanks have a quantity of 260 litres each.Each tank has a Lo level light set at 100 litres. Each tank quantity can be viewed by rotating the selector switch to the desired tank.

http://img834.imageshack.us/img834/6162/bf110fuelqty.jpg


FUEL USAGE
For engine start the pilot will put each Fuel cock lever forward to the "P1 U P2" position. On the right sill panel he puts the Forward and rear transfer switches to the centre position. This allows each engine to be fed from its respective FEED tank and each TRANSFER tank to feed their respective feed tanks... keeping them topped up

In flight the pilot will simply use fuel from the 2 FEED tanks simultaneously. As soon as the Fuel level in each FEED tank drops the respective rear TRANSFER tanks will keep topping up the forward FEED tanks. I presume this is done by a Float valve arrangement in each FEED tank set at slightly below Full. The rear TRANSFER tanks will be the first to empty.When they get down to 100ltrs its respective 100 Low level light on the main panel will illuminate

Once the TRANSFER tanks are empty Engine feed is now from the remaining fuel in each FEED tank. When A FEED tank gets below 100litres its respective Low level or 100 Litre light will illuminate.

It is possible to "Cross transfer" fuel from any FEED tank directly to the other FEED tank by using the transfer switches. This might be required to minimise fuel loss following a leak etc. For example if the pilot wants to cross feed from the right FEED tank to the left FEED tank. He would have the Front lever pointing at the Front left FEED tank and the rear lever pointing at the front right FEED tank .. in a \/ arrangement.

For Fuel balancing he can also control directly which TRANSFER tank feeds a specific FEED tank. For example if the pilot wants to use the right TRANSFER tank ONLY to feed the right FEED tank he would select the forward lever to the right position.He would then rotate the rear lever to point at the "donor" right TRANSFER tank So the lever arrangement would be <
In this situation the Left FEED tank continues to feed the left engine directly. I "think" that in this condition the left TRANSFER tank is now isolated.

So by using the levers the pilot can directly control where the TRANSFER tanks transfer fuel to or isolate pretty much any tank.

When external drop tanks are carried there operation is automatic. External tanks are pressurised and feed directly into their respective FEED tank. Once a Drop tank is empty the respective FEED tank level will initially start to drop (until the normal transfer starts from the TRANSFER tanks). At this stage the pilot can jettison the now empty drop tank. There is no fuel quantity indication for the Drop tanks. Pilots would have a rough idea of end of drop tank time from the fuel consumption data. Drop tanks would always be used first.


References:
RAF PIlots notes "How to fly the BF110"
The BF110C,D,E An illustrated study by John Vascoe
The BF110C Vultee aircraft Corporation BF110C5 Exploitation document

[Kodoss]

@IvanK: mostly I agree with you, but there's one point which still is questionable.

The Fuel distribution system with its levers. Both manuals states that you can pump fuel from both reseve tanks into of of the main tanks! There's is nowhere mentioned that you can pump it directly in both main tanks. That is also shown in the diagrams that I posted before.

Here is the text from the BAL (single pump system)
9764

It states clearly "d. Fuel distribution in the flight
Lever of the surgeside of the valveswitch can on all four, Lever on the pressureside only on both foreward tanks be switched. That means contant of all tanks can be pumped into the right or left foreward tank.
intertank transfer
1. Lever of the surgeside of the Valveswitch to the right or left rearward tank.
...
2. Lever of the pressureside of the valveswitch to the right or left foreward tank (main tanks).
3. Switch ( besides valveswitch) in position "Ein" (ON).
4. enlightens restfuel warninglamp of the drained tank, then switch to "Aus" (OFF)."

But that only counts for the early single fuel pumpsystems.

The interresting part is the text in the KBA with states both systems.
9765
Last sentence on the left side:
"By mounted new fuel system(...) only the fuel of both rear tanks will be pumped simultaneously into either the left front or right front tank."
First sentence on the right side.
"Shall the content of the rear tanks be pumped in one of the front, then lever of the valveswitch to the regarding front tank and switch the pumpswitchlever (Pumpschalthebel) to position "Ein" (ON).
Drops the fuel pressure below 1,1 atü, then through moving of the switch (besides the valveswitch) to position "Ein" (ON) activate the height pumps."

That shows that the drawn positions on the diagrams are correct.
You can't select both front tanks at the same time. That counts at least for all C-1 and C-2 planes.
The D-series has another valveswitch, which is also in the E-series.
But since the C- and D-series run parallel it might be possible that later Cs also were fitted with the new valveswitch, but that's speculation.
For sure is, that in the repair yards the C-series planes were sooner or later also fitted with the same valveswitch as the D- and E-series. See the attachment of the KBA.

Edit: I can't write fast enough before the forum kicks me out...

[Kodoss]

I changed the status of the fuel distribution on the 1. post to obsolete.

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/41 Fuel distribution
Might be obsolete since it's correct build in. See posts #14 and following.


I will change it back to a bug when evidence is found that D-series fuel distribution was also used in C-4 and C-7 models of this time (till end of 1940).
But for that I need the manual for the C-4/C-7, which I don't have.

[pupo162]

a litle bit of a theread hijack but you guys seem to know your 110's

http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/1216/bf110fuels.jpg

as seen in this image from IvanK

waht are those 2 big black knobs? the ones next the throttle, who look really big and important, yet they are of no use in our sim?

[Kodoss]

Those aren't knops/buttons.
Those are screws with nuts on each. This is an adjustable dead stop for the throttle. This cheap solution can be found anywhere in mechanical devices.
By old cars as an excample.

[pupo162]

Those aren't knops/buttons.
Those are screws with nuts on each. This is an adjustable dead stop for the throttle. This cheap solution can be found anywhere in mechanical devices.
By old cars as an excample.

sorry Koddos, i mean the knobs/leavers, who are one to each side of the throttles on that image right side of the mouse.

[Kodoss]

Those are levers for cleaning the oil filter.

If I understand it correct it has a rotating filter in which the oil is pressed. This filter can be closed through dirt or abrasive materials of the engine. To clean it, you move the lever from one position to the other to move a brush, that will clean the cylinder filter.
I took that knowledge out of a DB 601 E-G handbook. But I think the principle will be the same on a DB 601 A.

Just more workload for CEM.

Edit: It states Anlaßpumpen (starter pumps), which is wrong labeled. The Anlaßpumpe is below the hinged metal sheet on the right side of the Fuel selector (not Pumpenschalter).
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/zulu64/Fuel1.jpg

[pupo162]

such a big well placed knob for somethign so secundary.

thanks Kodoss, will go to sleep tonight with one bit more off airplane trivia :grin:

[Kodoss]

I added a bug and a feature for the gunner position in my first post and here.

general:
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/326 Gunner MG-Firing - setup - "bug"
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/327 Gunner MG-firing - Mouse mode - "feature"

[JG53Frankyboy]

DB601N units August 1940:
Bf109E-4/N
II./JG 26
*
Bf110C-4/N
II./ZG 26
III./ZG 26
II./ZG 76
*
Zerstörer Units in total:
Stab,I,II,III/ZG 26
Stab,I,II,III/ZG 76 (I. in Norway)
Stab,I,II/ZG 2
V(Z)/LG 1
+
1.&2. /Erp.Grp 210
*
*

[Kodoss]

Regarding 100 OCT fuel in the Book "Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410" from Mankau/Petrick is written:
Page 24:
"12.7.40(GL)...GL has decided that the available 601 N for now only in the Bf 110 will be build in. With that the assembly (601N) for the Bf 109 will not be applyed within the series."

"19.7.40 (GL).. the existing 601 N engines will be used up for the change over for on the front residing Bf 110. With that the further change of the Bf 109 groups (at now 1 group changed) will be dropped. Bf 109 F-series keeps the 601N engine. New build Bf 110 will be build with DB 601 A."

Page 25:
"26.7.1940 (GL) Genst. oppose the further fitting of 601N engines on BF 110, except for the already changing ZG...."

"9.8.40 (GL) For the already ordered change of in all 3 groups Bf 110 and the already changed group of Bf 109 will be 70 assembly engines for monthly 30 replacement A/C Bf 110 and 10 replacement A/C Bf 109, as well as 30 reseve engines provided through LC 3. That means by 280 engines in action a reserve of 10%...."

Page 27:
"27.9.40 (GL) Chef-Genst. has decided that 4 Zerstörer-groups BF 110 be fitted with 601 N and to be maintained. The supply for the groups matches the delivery of the firm Mtt, Augsburg. [Augsburg produced at that time [8.40-8.41] the Bf 110 E-1, see page 324] from the remaining engines 40 engines are buffer for the Bf 110. All other engines are to be f1/3 reserve and 2/3 are fitted in Bf 109 A/C.

Bf 110 E-1 is still ordered 2/5 with Dackelbauch and 3/5 w/o Dackelbauch...."

Page 28:
"18.10.40 (GL) At the moment it is impossilbe to refit additionally A/C Bf 109 E, except the already existing group to 601N..."

"26.10.40 (GL) Until the end of october 1100-1200 601 N engines are delivered. Thouse engines are build in 4 refitted groups Bf 110 and 1 group Bf 109, additionally in different A/C of the reconnaissance group Ob.d.L. As reserve 130 engines has been delivered to LE. The rest is for Bf 109 F-1, F-2 and the Messerschmittproduction Bf 110."

Page 29:
"6.11.40 (GL) ... Genst. requests that 601N favorly be fitted in Bf 109. to make the engines available, Genst. agrees to let 2 month deliveries of Bf 110 be fitted with 601 A instead of 601 N, if the bf 109 equipped with 601 N can be ensured. Following positions must get N-engines:
1.) ending series of Bf 109 E
2.) Reserve engines for III./ZG 26, Erprobungsgruppe 210.
If not enough engines available, following groups doesn't need to be supplyed with 601 N respectively 601 N can be changed to 601 A engines: II./ZG 26, II./ZG 76. Since the delivery of 601 N in january will be higher, the Bf 110 production will switch to 601 N engines."

[Kurfürst]

See also (and vote if possible) at:

Feature #200 - Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200

[Kodoss]

See also (and vote if possible) at:

Feature #200 - Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200

Added on first post by general.

[csThor]

@Robtek: so you wanna say that "D.(Luft)T.579/2" printed July 1940 and "D.(Luft)T.579/6" printed October 1940 given out from the german Luftwaffe are wrong?

Don't forget that those early ones doesn't have any heavy armor like the later ones.
And in the "D.(Luft)T.2110C, D und E; Bf 110 C, D und E Flugzeughandbuch Teil 8B Einbau und Prüfung der Abwurfwaffe; Heft 1" from May 1941 on page 5 under "Beschreibung" (description) you find:
"Die Rumpfabwurfwaffe kann beladen werden mit:
2x SC 250 kg Bombe oder
2x SD 500 kg Bombe oder
1x SD 1000 kg Bombe oder
1x SC 1000 kg Bombe und
___________1x SC 250 kg Bombe.

Die Flächenabwurfwaffe kann beladen werden mit:
4x SD 50 kg Bombe oder
4x BD C 10 (BD 10 Bündel mit 5 SC 10) oder
2x S 125 (Nebelgeräte)."

If you count 1xSC1000+1xSC250+4xSD50 together you get 1450kg.
Add the weight of the armor platings from '41 in the Bf 110 and you get your 2000kg.

Or take the Bf 110 D-1: 1050 l Fuel + 106 l Oil in the belly tank and 2x900 l in the ventral tanks = 2956 l >> 2056*0,78 = 2306 kg and thats only fuel/oil! and I didn't add the weight of the empty tanks.
also starting weight: 7,1 t, by overload 9,3 t

So it can carry 2xSD1000 bombs!!
They even made the undercarriage sturdier for that by the C-7.
Even the C-1/B with their weaker undercarriage could be attached with them, but if you could take off in one piece from a grassfield is another question.

I have to pipe up here. Just because the manual states so it doesn't mean bombs above 500kg were carried operationally. I went through my sources on Erprobungsgruppe 210 (which was the only unit to use the Bf 110 as fighter-bomber in 1940) showed no bombs bigger than SC or SD 500 used.
It's a bit of a mystery why a dedicated Dienstvorschrift was printed just when Erprobungsgruppe 210 had just been established to test the usefulness of Bf 110 and Bf 109 as fighter-bombers (established July 1 1940). And that the amended version from May 1941 contained a more varied loadout list with heavier bombs is not that surprising, even though it must be kept in mind that bombs above 500kg were considered "special ordnance" and its use had to be ordered/approved by the Fliegerkorps.

[Kodoss]

@csThor: can you make a list of bomb load which was used by ErprGr 210?
I miss the SD2 for airfield raids may it be Bf 109 or Bf 110.

See: http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-29020.html

[csThor]

I'll have to see what I can dig up. May tike a while (not much time ATM).

[csThor]

Had a few minutes to spare and I found that it were pretty much four bomb types used by Erprobungsgruppe 210: SC 250, SC 500, SD 250 and SD 500. AFAIR the ETCs weren't yet configured for carrying SC 50 bombs (and the wing racks on the Bf 110 were not yet installed, that came only in 1941) so that isn't exactly surprising. :)

[jojovtx]

Thank you guys for your hard work and sharing your knowledge. The 110, not being a 109 or Spitfire, is seemingly relagated to secondary status and thus does not get the scrutiny like other more popular platforms. I am thankful you gentlement have pointed these shortcomings out. Of all the things this aircraft lacks or needs corrected I can not believe it has not been equipped with mgff/m yet.

[5./JG27.Farber]

I voted a while ago for the Bf110 bugs Klein, someone loves you :-P

Yes we definatley need the SD2! How can the best anti grounded aircraft munition be left out of the battle of Britian!?

[Kodoss]

Hmm, from what I have read now the Rost 24 SD2 and the Einhangrost ER 4 ETC 50 for the BF 110 didn't showed up until march/april 1941.
So no SD 2 and SD 50 for Bf 110 in the Battle of Britain.

But it looks like the Bf 109 Fighter/bomber could carry SD 50 on a ETC 50 rack. Maybe also SD 2.
@csThor: can you confirm this through your documents of ErprGr 210?

[robtek]

I only know that SD2 were used during the BoB.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Quick look through my sources tonight but cant remember where I saw it... A quick look through my aircraft manuals shows a 109 equipped with SD2 but not the model or year...

Pretty sure I saw something here about it but can spot it imeadiatly:

http://forum.netweather.tv/topic/63129-the-battle-of-britain-weather-diary/

Ill keep looking tomorrow.



My farther, born in 1951 found a SD2 hanging in a tree near Sheffield... Derbyshire I think, proberbly near Dronfield, as they roamed quite far as kids in the woods... I will ask him about it but obviously this was well after the war...

[Varrattu]

Here you find some information concerning the influence of bomb loads on the performance values of full equipped BF110's:

http://www.beim-zeugmeister.de/zeugmeister/index.php?id=45&L=1

~S~

[Kodoss]

I only know that SD2 were used during the BoB.

SD 2 butterfly bombs were also used in poland.
The question is were they or SD 50 carried/optional by Bf 109 in the BoB.

@csThor: Regarding the Bf 110 bomb load: I think the 2x SD 1000 is just the stated optional limit for the A/C structure. Like stating that you can carry max. 200kg of cargo + 5 persons in your car manual.

I also found a page of the manual which states the max load and load options for 3 different types of Bf 110 C fighter/bomber regarding their undercarriage.

I will post it here as soon as I find it again.

@Varrattu interesting find. What also is interesting is the mentioned 12:40 pitch. I have seen the same pitch mentioned by the D-series, but also by C-series? Will look into that later.

[Kodoss]

Found it.

9939

First position [a] states normal C-1 to C-4 variants (without bombs and additional fuel tanks)
Second position [b] states variants with only strengthend main gear and not strengthend tailwheel.
Third position [c] states variants with strengthend main gear and strengthend tail wheel.

I think air resistance for propeller by standing A/C with 12:00 pitch is not modelled jet.
See 9. on the left page.
Will check it now.

[Kodoss]

I think air resistance for propeller by standing A/C with 12:00 pitch is not modelled jet.
See 9. on the left page.

Looks like it is modelled. But 25-75 rpm to low after warming up to 50°C oil and 60-70°C water temp.
I only reached 2175 rpm on both engines, but should reach 2200-2250 rpm.
so ~ 50 rpm are missing.
For everyone who want to test it too, slowly warm up with 800 rpm and pitch 12:00 to:
min oil temp: 40°C
max water temp: 80°C
Set trim to Hecklastig (heavy tail)
Pull your stick a little bit (or eat the grass :rolleyes: ) and push the throttle to 1,3 ata and keep it (not longer than 5 min).
Check if 2200-2250 is reached.

[5./JG27.Farber]

My farther, born in 1951 found a SD2 hanging in a tree near Sheffield... Derbyshire I think, proberbly near Dronfield, as they roamed quite far as kids in the woods... I will ask him about it but obviously this was well after the war...

He said it was when he was 9 or 10 years old. Sheffield is built on 7 hills, so at the back of his row of terreced houses (in England terraced house where built around 1900 as a general rule) was a wall of about 8 feet, behind the wall was a big drop with a steep 30 degree slope. They would climb over the wall drop onto a ledge slide down the slope onto another ledge and drop off on some wooded waste ground. Nobody went there as the land was not used for anything and adults could not get, nor wanted to, go down there. Anyway there was a butterfly bomb hanging in a tree. So if this is 1961/2 in a city and there is a bomb hanging in a tree! I wonder when it was dropped? When did the LW stop bombing Northern cities? The longest it could of been there was 1940 so thats 20 years! He thinks it must have been defective and I would agree. Anyway some how (he forgets how) the police were informed and it was disposed of.


Anyway still looking through my manuals etc and I know ive seen a picture of the SD2 on both the 109 and 110 but need to find the proof to check the year.... This is annoying me now.

[Kodoss]

I looked into the book "Die deutsche Abwurfmunition bis 1945".

It states that the SD-2 was first used in the operation "Opernball" at the 29. october 1940.
A Rotte Dornier Do 17 of the 8./KG 76 attacked the 17 parked Bristol Blenheim at the airfield Wattisham.

Other small bombs which has been used from the start of the war 1939 were the B-1 E, B-1,3 E, SC-10/SD-10, SC-50 and SD-50.

It is also interesting to read that the production of bombs were behind the use.
At the end of the poland campaign were mostly all 20.000 bombs of the 50kg and 250kg weight used up.

[JG53Frankyboy]

as thor already mentioned, i seriously doubt that the 109 fighterbombers of the 3./ErprGrp210 and II/LG2 and the 110 fighterbombers of 1.&2./ErprGrp210 used SD2 during the summer over britain! Sure not the later fighterbombersquadrons of the JGs.......

During the BoB it was the KGs that used them - for them it would be a nice addition :)

For SD2 on fighterbombers we have to wait for this 'BoM' thing, i hope actually ;)

[Kodoss]

I had some free time with GIMP and remodelled the cockpit of the C-7.

10751
Cliffs of Dover original cockpit.


The revamped cockpit (more to the real deal).:rolleyes:

EDIT: revamped pic deleted, see post #52 for new revamped cockpit!

[III/JG53_Don]

would be great if all these mistakes in the cockpits (not only of the 110) will be corrected in the next patch.... but you can doubt it unfortunately :/

[Kodoss]

Since Blacksix stated that
You will see some CloD aircrafts in the sequel. We'll fix cockpit if we argee with your bug-reports.
I thought of how I can convince them to fix the cockpit of the Bf-110 and give additionally advice for the later Series.

With this post I want to start a series of posts to show the differences in the cockpit between The Bf 110 B to F series.
For the G-series I have not enough material now, but should mostly the same as the F-series.
I will also go into systems and functions a little bit. I will also tell which sources I used.
Help for any of series is appreciated.

My planned orginazation looks like this:
1. Cockpit (pilot)
2. Cockpit (Radio/gunner)

Differences of the Bf-110 B-F cockpits and the conclusions for the CloD cockpit.

Let's begin by zero or better said with the Bf 110 B.
My sources for today:
The drawings: are from the "Betriebs- und Rüstanleitung Bf-110 B mit Jumo 210 G" Dec/1938
The picture: is from "L.Dv.579/1 Bf 110 B und C Bedienvorschrift für starre und bewegliche Schußwaffe" Dec/1938.
Can also be seen in "Messerschmitt Bf 110 C, D and E" from John Vasco and Fernando Estanislau.
For adding the Fl-number I used the model-code and searched through "Flugzeug-Ausrüstungsgeräte und Anforderungszeichen Mappe 1-3, 10"
If anyone of you have a copy of a " Bf-110 B spare parts catalog", please PM me.


A little description from my side:

16b) Patin-Tochterkompaß L2 PFK/f3
16 = Number of the picture
b = position in the picture
Patin-Tochterkompaß = the Name of the object
L2 = electrical position for the wiring diagram
PFK/f3 = model
FL 23338 = military standart spare part number (makes it easy to identify especially when you have "Flugzeug-Ausrüstungsgeräte und Anforderungszeichen Mappe 1-3, 10")


Cockpit left:
10807
3a) Hebelkasten mit Gas-, Laderschalt- und Brandhahnhebeln (lever box for gas(2), gear(1) and fuel-shut-off lever(2))
3b) Bedienhebel für Höhenhilfsruder (elevator trim)
3c) Boschhorn E26 (signal horn)
3d) Unterbau (plate)
3e) Netzausschalter A35 (für Batterie) (battery off switch)
3f) Zündschalter B11/B12 (ignition switch)
3g) Schalter für Kühlklappenverstellung E37/E38(switch for watercooler)
3i) Richtungsgeber K9 LRg5 FL-22569
3h) Kursmotor K4 LKMo FL-22563
3k) Landeklappenanzeigegerät (landing flaps indicator)
3n) Handräder für Pressluft (Fahrwerk-/Landeklappennotbetätigung) (emergency wheels for pressed air to landing gear and landing flaps)
3o) Manometer für Pressluft (gauge for pressed air)
3p) Laderbedienhebel (Laderschalthebel) (engine gear selector)
3q) Bowdenzug



Cockpit right:
10808
4a) Handpumpenhebel (fuelpump lever)
4b) Hebel für Kraftstoffventilbatterie (fueltank selector lever)
4c) Bedienhebel für Seitenhilfruder (rudder trim)
4d) Empfindlichkeitsregler für Wendezeiger (sensitivity regulator for turn and bank indicator)
4e) Ausgleichsgefäß für Variometer (adjustment tank for variometer)
4f) Höhenatmer (oxygen breather)
4g) Füllstutzen-Zapfenventil für Höhenatmer (fill vent for oxygen breather)
4h) Vierfachschaltkasten A36 mit selbstschalter für Staurrohrheizung, Gerätebrettlampen, Triebwerksbeleuchtung, Kennlichter und Scheinwerfer
from front to rear 1.) Scheinwerfer (landing light)
2.) Kennlichter (navigational lights)
3.) Gerätebrett-/Motorgondelbeleuchtung (lights for intrument board and engine intrument board)
4.) Staurohrheizung (pitot tube heater)
additionally 5.) Starre waffe P2 Selbstschalter (fuse switch for guns)
6.) Starre Waffe P1 Selbstschalter (fuse switch for guns)
4i) Anlaßschalter (starter switch)
4k) Unterbau (plate)
4m) Druckknopf C19 für 17c) Lampen C20/C21/C22/C23
4n) Hauptschalter (für Kurssteuerung) K7 LSch4ü FL-22559-1 (Main switch for autopilot)
4o) Anlaßpumpe (starter pump)

Cockpit front:
10806
16a) Fernkurskreisel K8 LKu4 FL-22561 (directional gyro)
16b) Patin-Tochterkompaß L2 PFK/f3 FL-23338
16c) Kompaß (compass)
16d) Fahrwerksanzeigegerät E23 (landing gear indicator)
16e) Borduhr (clock)
16f) Drehzahlmesser M19/M20 (rev counter)
16g) Verdunkler C11
16h) Reststandsanzeiger links M14 (low fuel indicator left)
16i) Reststandsanzeiger rechts M15 (low fuel indicator right)
16k) Notzugknopf für Rudermaschine (emergency pull button for rudder engine(part of the auto pilot))
16l) Ladedruckmesser (boost gauges)
16m) Vorratsanzeiger für Kraftstoff vorne (front fuel indicator) M21
16n) Vorratsanzeiger für Kraftstoff hinten (rear fuel indicator) M23
16o) Kurszeiger K6 LKz3 (course indicator)
16p) elektr. Anzeigegeräte E19/E20 für Luftschraubenverstellung (elect. Propeller pitch indicator)
16q) Staurohrheizungslampe D3 (pitot heater control lamp)
16r) Wendezeiger (turn and bank indicator)
16s) Variometer (rate of climb meter)
16t) Fein-Grobhöhenmesser (altimeter)
16u) Horizont (artificial horizon)
16v) Fahrtmesser (airspeed indicator)
16w) Kühlwassertemperatur (coolant temp gauge)
16x) Anzeiger für Funknavigation (radio navigation indicator)
16Y) Feststellhebel für Horizont (artificial horizon on-off switch)
10805

Engine gauges:
10809
17a) Gerätebrett
17c) Lampen C20/C22 bzw. C21/C23 (lamps)
17d) Druckausgleichsventil (pressure valve)
17e) Mech. Anzeigegerät für Luftschraubenverstellung (mech. propeller pitch indicator)
gauges below, front to rear: 1.) Kraftstoff-/Schmierstoffdruckmesser (double gauge Fuel/oil pressure)
2.) Schmierstoff-Ein/Austrittstemperatur (double gauge oil-in/oil-out-temp)
17f) Generator 30V 1200W
17g) Belüftungsrohr für Generator (coolant air tube for generator)
17h) Biegsame Welle zum Verstellmotor

Next will be Cockpit(Pilot) of the Bf 110 C-series.

[Kodoss]

The cockpit(pilot) of the C-series

Sources for this post:
"Instructions for flying the Messerschmitt 110 A.M. pamphlet 114C"
"Messerschmitt Bf 110 C, D and E" from John Vasco and Fernando Estanislau

Let's begin with a nice picture from the "A.M. Pamphlet 114C" which shows most probably a C-5(missing cannon round indicator).
The pic can also be found in Kenneth A. Merrick's book "german aircraft interiors"/"deutsche Flugzeug-Cockpits"(book is also translated into german).
If it would be a D-series you would see the 2 additional lamps over the horizon.
And since it has so nice numbers for most of the gauges/switches I will only add the FL-#.

10818

1 FL-32315-2
6 FL-32823-2
9 9-9502 B
12 FL-20342-2
13 FL-20286-3
14 FL-20550
17 FL-32526
20 FL-29723
30 FL-23300
31 FL-22320
32 FL-23338
33 ZVK-FF
34 SSK 404/2
36 FL-22402
37 FL-22382 in this C-5 (FL-22381-10 in other C-Series? see cockpit of C-1/B)
38 most probalby FL-22426 with the on-off switch 39
40 FL-22231
41 FL-23233
43 FL-22478
The little button [Spkf 1] left to the Revi holder is for bord to bord radio.

Here a little close up of the same pic in better quality.

10819

Have a look at the rev counter (36 as the last number) and the boost gauge plate( d=1,15 ata / |=1,2 ata(30 min.)/ |=1,3 ata(5 min.) for 87 octane fuel)

Now 3 pictures of C-1/B 2N+GN WNr. 2831 build at MIAG(Mühlenbau und Industrie AG) in 1939 and downed by Swiss Bf-109 E's on 8 June 1940.
The interesting part are the 2 white lamps above the horizon, which shouldn'd be in the C-Series.

10820
10821
Look at which angle the landing flap indicator is still readable. Also no button box on the left side.
10822

The next post will continue with the C-series cockpit(pilot) and show some manual drawings.
If there are questions I will try to answer them.

[Kodoss]

Sources for today:
"vorläufige Betriebs- und Rüstanleitung Bf 110 C" - 1. June 1939 (first 4 drawings)
"Betriebsanleitung Bf 110 C mit Anhang Bf 110 D-0" - Februar 1940 (last drawing)

The first 4 drawings show the cockpit layout for june 1939.
You see the Fernkurskreisel LKu4 still in there, like in the B-series.

Left side
10838
3a) Hebelkasten
3b) Gashebel (gas lever)
3c) Handpumpenhebel (hand pump lever)
3d) Brandhahnhebel (fuel-shut-off/pump lever)
3e) Ölkühlerklappenhebel (oil radiator lever)
3f) Verstellvorrichtung Höhenhilfsruder (elevator trim)
3g) Stoßstange
3h) Netzausschalter A28
3i) Handräder für Preßluftsperrventile (emergency vents for gear and flaps)
3k) Druckknopfschalter für Fahrwerk (landing gear buttons)
3m) Druckknopfschalter für Landeklappen (landing flaps button)
3n) Druckmesser (pressure gauge)
3o) Zündschalter B7/B8
3p) Boschhorn E31
3q) Richtungsgeber K2 LRg5
3r) Landeklappen-Anzeigegerät (landing gear indicator)
3s) Bowdenzug
3t) Verstellschalter E17/E18 für Propellerverstellung (prop pitch switch)

Cockpit panel
10837
16a) Fernkurskreisel K3 LKu4
16b) Patin-Tochterkompaß L1 PfK/f3
16c) Wendezeiger
16d) position for ZVK-FF
16e) Druckmesser Pressluft
16f) Fahrwerksanzeigegerät E19
16g) Schalter E20/E22 für Kühlerklappenverstellung
16h) Drehzahlmesser M18/M19
16i) Kühlstofftemperatur-Messgerät M9
16k) Kühlstofftemperatur-Messgerät M17
16m) Reststandsanzeigegeräte M11,M12,M14,M15
16n) Umschalter M16 für Kraftstoffvorratsanzeiger
16o) Kraftstoffvorratsanzeiger M13
16p) Staurohr-Schauzeichen D3
16q) Kurszeiger K4 LKz3
16r) Notzugknopf
16s) Verstellschalter E17/E18 für Propellerverstellung
16t) elektrische Anzeigegeräte E22/E23 für Propellerverstellung
above d) SSK 404/2 and Wahlschalter (main control panel for MGs and switch for 2MG-4MG)
above q) Anzeiger für Funknavigation AFN1


Right side
10839
17a) Bedienhebel Seitenhilfsruder (rudder trim)
17b) Höhenatmer (oxygen breather)
17c) Vierfachschaltkasten A36 mit selbstschalter für Staurrohrheizung, Gerätebrettlampen, Triebwerksbeleuchtung, Kennlichter und Scheinwerfer
Switch box
from front to rear 1.) Scheinwerfer (landing light)
2.) Kennlichter (navigational lights)
3.) Gerätebrett-/Motorgondelbeleuchtung (lights for intrument board and engine intrument board)
4.) Staurohrheizung (pitot tube heater)
additionally 5.) Starre waffe P2 Selbstschalter (fuse switch for guns)
6.) Starre Waffe P1 Selbstschalter (fuse switch for guns)
17d) Empfindlichkeitsregler für Wendehorizont
17e) Gerätebank
17f) Verdunkler C16
17g) Schalter M25 für Kraftstoff-Umpumpanlage
17h) Hauptschalter K5 LSch4ü für Kurssteuerung/Patinkompaßanlage (main switch for auto course)
17i) Umschaltplatte
17k) Griffe für Kerzenabbrennung (ignitor cleaning handle)
17m) Füllstutzen-Zapfenventil (Höhenatmer)
17n) Fernbedienknopf für Anlaßtrennschalter A36
17o) Anlaßpumpe
17p) Schalthahn ( für Verneblerleitung? )
17q) Anlaßschalter B9
17r) Anlaßschalter B10

Engine panel
10840
11a) mechanische Anzeigevorrichtung (Fahrwerk) (mechanical indicator for landing gear / only early C-1 aircraft)
11b) Bowdenzug
11c) Gerätetafel
11d) Steckdose C7/Stecker C6
11e) Gerätelampe C2
11f) Gerätelampe C3
11g) Abzweigdose C4
11h) Gerätetafel
11i) Halterung für Gerätetafel
11k) mechanisches Anzeigegerät für Propellerverstellung (mechanical prop pitch indicator)
gauges below, front to rear: 1.) Kraftstoff-/Schmierstoffdruckmesser (double gauge Fuel/oil pressure)
2.) Schmierstoff-Ein/Austrittstemperatur (double gauge oil-in/oil-out-temp, 2 pointer)

And now the cockpit panel layout of "Betriebsanleitung Bf 110 C mit Anhang Bf 110 D-0" Februar 1940
Teil 9 - Ausrüstung (part 9 - equipment), side 9-01.
10841
See the new Kursgeber (course selector) below the Patin-Tochterkompaß (daughter compass).
This course selector stayed until the E-series.

The MG and gun counter aren't part of this manual.
There are to find in "Bf 110 B und C Bedienvorschrift für die starre und bewegliche Schußwaffe, L.Dv. 579/1".

[Kodoss]

Since the C and D series were build at the same time let us have a look at the cockpit of the D-series.

My sources for today:
"Report-No. 260-28 Analysis of the Messerschmitt Me-110 Airplane" from Vultee Aircraft Inc.
"Life" Magazine from 21. April 1941 Page 34/35
"Messerschmitt Bf 110 C, D and E" from John Vasco and Fernando Estanislau
"Beschreibung und Einbau der Zusatzanlagen für das Flugzeugmuster Bf 110 D L.Dv.T2413/1(Entwurf) / (Nachtrag 1)" from November 1940

The first 3 pictures are from the Bf-110 D-0/B W.Nr.3341 S9+CK build in Juli 1940 and shot down on 15. August 1940.
Just look at the Revi holder with the "Schwenkplatte SP 1A" for the Revi C12/D which should also be in every C-7.

10896
10897
10898

The only 39 new build C-7 were produced from Juli 1940 to September 1940 (see "Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, Me 410" from Heinz Mankau/Peter Petrick)
So we have a good look at the same equipment in the instrument panel.
Here is a drawing out of the manual which shows the instrument panel of a C-series with the additional 2 lamps for the D-Series.
10899

In my next post I will show what we have in "Cliffs of Dover" as a cockpit for the C-7.

[Toni74]

I had some free time with GIMP and remodelled the cockpit of the C-7.

10751
Cliffs of Dover original cockpit.

10752
The revamped cockpit (more to the real deal).:rolleyes:

Really nice work! This is what I wish for the C model. Even the "Umschaltwarnung" tag and the two white lamps are wrong in the C model.

I found already are some more issues at bugtracker tool but I think nobody of developers is interested in reading them :/

http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/126
http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/124

[Kodoss]

I had to rework my cockpit pic a little, since I forgot that the box for the prop lever had just another shape instead of deleting it completely.

So here is the new revamped cockpit.
10958
The only thing that is still missing (not good at painting) is the ON-OFF switch for the artificial Horizon.

And here are the promised CloD C-7 pics.
10952
10953
10954

The wrong Box(came with E-series) with wrong labeling(all of them are fuel pump circuit breaker).
10955
Note: The early D-series models had glass circuit breaker for each fuel pump. The thermal circuit breaker (as seen in the pic) were introduced later, so we can assume that they came with the E-series.
And the circuit breaker for the FT-Anlage (Radio-com) is in the main panel by the gunner on the right side of the plane (which is not modeled by the way, but that's for later).

Edit: dammit, I have to rework the stupid Prop lever box again. it should only be the half depth(end at the same level as the gear/flap switches).
Edit2: rework done.

[Toni74]

Kodoss are you sure with the prop pitch lever console? I think that the C type didn't have such a console at all and the pitch levers stuck on the dash board surface directly.

The "cut" version of that console I would guess was introduced in D type first.

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=10818&d=1348391343

http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/attachment.php?attachmentid=10837&d=1348680667

[Kodoss]

Kodoss are you sure with the prop pitch lever console? I think that the C type didn't have such a console at all and the pitch levers stuck on the dash board surface directly.

The "cut" version of that console I would guess was introduced in D type first.


Look at post #48 and #49.
Especially in '49 is a drawing of the left cockpit side, which shows the box.

As written in this post it's from "Vorläufige Betriebs- und Rüstanleitung Bf 110 C" - 1. June 1939.
So it existed from the beginning in the C-series to the E-series.

Somewhere in the E-series it was changed, since the place of the "Auto-Manuell" switches on the right side of the instrument panel were needed for other instruments. See above the left rev-counter.
10960
pic from
"D.(Luft)T.2110 C,D und E Teil 8B, Heft 1
Bf 110 C, D und E Flugzeughandbuch
Teil 8B: Einbau und Prüfung der Abwurfwaffe
Heft 1: Bf 110 E" - May 1941

[Toni74]

ok I agree

[Kodoss]

I found another 2 pics in "Kagero Monografie Vol.16". Not the best source since they took a pic of a C-series with FuG IIIa-U and declare it as FuG X.

By the first pic Kagero writes it's a Bf-110 C-2. Could be possible, but can't confirm it since I have no additional data. Interesting is the position of the clock and the AFN-1 ( field mod? )
11005

By the second picture they write "assembly of pilot's cockpit equipment at plant in Augsburg". This indicates this cockpit as one of the D-Series, since Messerschmitt doesn't built any C-Series after the begin of the D-series.
11006

The last C-2 in the Mtt-plant was build in January 1940 and D-Series production started in March 1940 to Sept. 1940.

[Kodoss]

Now let's see what the cockpit of the E-series is like.

Sources of today:
"D.(Luft)T.2110 C-2,C-4 bis C-7, D-0 bis D-4, E-1 bis E-4; Bf 110 Flugzeughandbuch Teil 9D; Bordfunkanlage" July 1942
"D.(Luft)T.2110 C, D und E; Bf 110 C, D und E Flugzeughandbuch Teil 8B; Einbau und Prüfung der Abwurfwaffe; Heft 1: Bf 110 E" May 1941
"Deutsche Flugzeug-Cockpits 1935-1945" from Kennrth A Merrick
"Ersatzteilliste Bf 110 C" January 1940 with updated pages (intruduction date see lower right corner of the page)

OK, let's begin with a nice cockpit drawing(first source) of an E-Series cockpit (see the heater knob top right).
11028
This is the standard cockpit for the E-series. You can also see that instead of the electrical prop-gauges now the switches for the automated propeller pitch are installed. Good to see on the left side the fuse box with the switches for the fuel pumps.
Also some other instruments were moved.
This drawing can be taken for true, since a picture (2. source) clearly shows the switches in the same position.
11029

But now it gets tricky.
Two nice pictures of an E-1 W.Nr.4114, SJ+KB(production code), LN+FR(military code) of 1.(Z)/JG 77 build Aug.1941 and landed in Sweden on 1. Sep.1941.
11030

First some additional info.
The production of the E-1 ended in August '41 with W.Nr. 4116 and it was the last Bf 110 which the Messerschmitt plant in Augsburg produced(see "Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210, M410" from Mankau/Petrick page 324).
The last E-series A/C were build in Januar '42 and production of the F-Series started in Dec. '41.
As a side note the F- and G-Series were build at the Luther-Werke(formerly MIAG) and Gothaer Waggonfabrik which also produced the earlier Series.

My personal conclusion:
since they needed place for the outer temp. gauge (below the heater knob), they changed the position of the automatic-switches to the left, above the prop-pitch-lever.
To do so they used the spare parts for early C- and D-Series, wich were introduced to update the manual prop pitch to the automatic prop pitch system.
I can justify this conclusion, since there is no additional plate to cover the empty gauge hole to the right of the outer temp. gauge.

See spare parts for Bf 110 C (4. source).
First one is for normal C-Series with manual prop pitch. (see part-# 14)
11026
Second one is for updated C-Series with automatic prop pitch. (see part-# 26(new box), 27(Cover plate), 28(prop-lever) and 29(switch))
11027

[Toni74]

look here what I've found. looks like a proper 110 C cockpit instrument set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RF_i2eAHm4M

[Kodoss]

look here what I've found. looks like a proper 110 C cockpit instrument set:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=RF_i2eAHm4M

The lock switch for the artificial horizon is missing, but a good job from Eduard.

[Kodoss]

Sources for today:
"D.(Luft) T.2110 F-2 Teil 9A; Bf 110 F-2 Flugzeughandbuch (Stand April 1943) Teil 9A, Allgemeine Ausrüstung" from 08/1943
"L.Dv.T.2110 F/Fl Bf 110 F Bedienungsvorschrift-Fl" from 03/1943
"Anhang zur Ersatzteiliste Bf110C; Ersatzteilliste Bf 110 F" from 06/1942

Let's have a look into the cockpit of the Bf 110 F-Series.

Left side:
11470

The housing for the prop pitch lever and switches is now standard. Above them the 4-switch-fuse-panel for the fuel pumps(since the belly tank[Dackelbauchtank] was deleted, the panel changed from 7 switches to 4).
There is an additional knob on the right throttle lever, to activate the landing light when pressed.

Front panel:
11469

For better instrument flight the panel was changed. Also the 2 control lamps, above the variometer(k), for the "Rüstsatz M1" 2x MG151/20 + 200 ammunition under the belly are already installed. 2x MG 151 can be fitted instead of the 2x MG 151/20.
At the top right of the variometer you see the "Drehschauzeichen" ( turn-view-sign? ) which shows the working of the de-icing-system of the armored glass.
See the pilots main-fuse-panel on the right side behind the compass, should be in all C-to-G-series. Additional UV-lamps(n) are installed for night flights.

This cockpit has the ZVK-FF ammunition-counter for the MG-FF/M installed.
The spare-parts-catalog from 15. June 1942 indicates a change in the armament from 2x MG-FF/M to 2x MG 151/20 with 350 rounds in thr right MG and 400 rounds in the left.
In case the MG 151/20 are installed, the SZKK 2 (Fl.47317) ammunition-counter should be installed in the panel.
This modification is from outside only distinguishable from the missing openings in front of the ETC 500/IXb (bomb rack).

OK, back to the cockpit.
Right side:
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No big changes in the right hand panel (even it is a new panel...).
Left of the cockpit-light-poti(1) you find the turning-switch for the "Roland-Anlage" (only F-4) and it's control lamp below (also "Drehschauzeichen").
In the F-2 you might find the same turning switch and lamp, but with an additional lamp in front of the switch. Then additional position lights (zusätzliche Kennlichter) are added to the fuselage.
In front of those turning switch I guess the switch and the 2 control lamps for checking tire pressure.
You read right, the F-series has an electric tire-pressure-control.
The manual states that there are 2 control lights(one for each tire) in the cockpit and those are the only one I can find and have no real description for them, so I can only guess.

Engine instruments:
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The only change here is from the double-oil-temp-gauge (oil-temp-in/oil-temp-out) to a single-oil-temp-gauge(oil-temp-in).
Good to see the mech. prop-pitch-indicator ( which is missing in CloD ).

And now a picture from the spare-parts-list, regarding the instrument panel in the cockpit.
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[Kodoss]

Sources:
"D.(Luft) T.2110 G-2 Teil 8A, Bf 110 G-2 Flugzeughandbuch, Teil 8A Schußwaffenanlage" from 03/1943 printed 04/1943
"D.(Luft) T.2110 G-2 Teil 8C, Heft 1, Bf 110 G-2 Flugzeughandbuch, Teil 8C Sonderwaffenanlage" from 12/1943
"D.(Luft) T.2110 G-2 Teil 8A, Beiheft 1, Bf 110 G-2 Flugzeughandbuch, Teil 8A Schußwaffenanlage" from 01/1944
"D.(Luft) T.2110 G-2/R3 und G-4/R3/Wa , Bf 110 G-2/R3 und G-4/R3, Schußwaffenanlage mit MK 108 in der Rumpfspitze" from 12/1943 printed 03/1944

Cockpit of the G-series:
First I will show you the standard cockpit of the G-series, then I will go into the subtypes.

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This cockpit is mostly the same as the cockpit for the late Bf 110 F with MG 151/20 instead of the MG-FF/M.
The only differences I could find is a changed right hand panel ( the oxygen-bottle is now below the panel? )
and the use of the "Schwenkplatte Sp 2 A" (the same as in the Stuka) instead of the "Sp 1 A".

11501

The left and right front windows are also armored.
The only difference between this cockpit and the G-2/R1 with the 3,7 cm BK is the closed left ammunition-counter of the SZKK-2 (below the Revi).

The G-series cockpit with "Rüstsatz M5: 21cm BR"

11502

No big changes here either. The plates for the power switch and the arm-switches(always on and armed) are gone for arming and disarming of the 21 cm BR.
The Button(7) for ermegency drop of the BR-tubes is changes to a switch (might be the same as in the F-series? See previous post: right side)

For the Bf-110 G with MK 108 I have found 2 cockpit variants and 5 subtype-callings.
Let's begin with the subtype-names:
First type is the original one with 4x MG 17 and then the subtype with MK 108 in the nose.
Bf 110 G-2 >> Bf 110 G-2/U9
Bf 110 G-3 >> Bf 110 G-3/U9
Bf 110 G-4 >> Bf 110 G-4/U9
Bf 110 G-2/R1 >> Bf 110 G-2/R3
Bf 110 G-2/R2 >> Bf 110 G-2/R4

135 Cartridges for the right and 120 for the left MK 108.

Now it get's a little bit tricky.
Since we have 2 pictures for the same armament dated nearly the same time (January/March 1944) but with differnent layouts of the cockpit,
I have 3 possible solutions.
First: The 1. picture I show now is a field mod allowed through the RLM with manuals, to change old type to the new subtype.
Second: Luther and GWF produced each a different version of the MK 108 subtype.
Third: Both of them are true.

By the first type with the MK 108 the "SSK 404/2" was replaced by a plate with 2 buttons and control lamps.
So nearly the same as the standard G-series.

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The second type has also the "SSK 404/2" deleted, but a "SZKK-3" instead of the "SZKK-2" and only one switch to charge the MK 108.

11504