4.12 development update discussion and feedback

[N2O]

Heh! I have just damn normal real life work to do and mustn't check here every day. ;)

Nevertheless you appear here time you respond to these messages :mrgreen:

[Pursuivant]

But too cold engines will not perform different. Its not implemented (only overheat).

I've seen a mod there you can suffer engine damage if you don't properly warm the engine first. It works well and looks pretty simple to implement.

Starting with a "cold and dark" cockpit would definitely change the way that scramble missions work, especially in cold weather.

As a related question, does ambient map temperature decrease with altitude and does it accurately model stratospheric temperatures?

As a very rough rule of thumb, temperature drops by about 1 *F per 1,000 feet (6.49 K(°C)/1,000 m) until you get to about 36,000 feet (11 km). At that point, the temperature stays relatively static at about −56.5 °C (−69.7 °F).

Another factor to consider would be humidity. Not only does it have some effects on visibility, it also affects cooling and (sort of) lift.

[Black_Sage29]

Another nice feature would be to implement if you slam the throttle too hard the engine coughs and spits...which it would do in real life


Would force people to be careful on the throttle



Also, speaking of engine tempatures and overheating....Oil dilution comes to mind

[Ala13_Kokakolo]

I'm not playing 4.12 (except for testing), as I find it boring, because I have it since almost half a year now. I'm waiting already for 4.13. :rolleyes:;):grin:

Great envy I have...


I've seen a mod there you can suffer engine damage if you don't properly warm the engine first. It works well and looks pretty simple to implement.

Does it also implement the damage for cooling to much the engine once airborne? I will look it up.

It is my believe (or my desire) Il2 move in the direction of realism. Il2 has undergone a lot of improvement in many different areas, but in engine management the only radical change since its origin was the increase of the overheat effect. If we want to simulate wwii aerial combat we have to realise real life pilots with better engine management in their planes (109 / fw for exaple) had an advantage against their opposition.

[bf-110]

Forgot to ask,after TD recovered they site,did everything was alright or some content was lost?

[P-38L]

Hello DT

When in FMB, and when using Radio antennas, and aircraft carrier for airplane navigation, should be implemented a circle (on/off ) showing the range of radio transmission. That way is easier to know how much distance must be placed an antenna and an aircraft carrier to be located for the player.

To avoid extra info on the map, this options can be represented from the FMB in the menu View - Display filter - Show range of transmission.

Thank you very much.

[Bearcat]

Heh! I have just damn normal real life work to do and mustn't check here every day. ;)

I'm not playing 4.12 (except for testing), as I find it boring, because I have it since almost half a year now. I'm waiting already for 4.13. :rolleyes:;):grin:

Well pass that boredom along.. :rolleyes:

[Airway]

Forgot to ask,after TD recovered they site,did everything was alright or some content was lost?

I don't think they program v4.12m in html ;)

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

All is alright - we lost nothing. Not even in HTML. ;)

[ramstein]

WHAT????Hacked???Now they declared war!

Sharia law, hack the hands off the scum! and the other thingy! no matter how short !

[nic727]

Will we have a new update video soon?

[Fighterace]

Will we have a new update video soon?

+1 That would be nice

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

No, sorry guys! Its not the time for videos. 4.12 needs to leave the table. And anyway... we don't have something to fill a video with.

Next vid for 4.13. ;)

[Volksfürsorge]

No, sorry guys! Its not the time for videos. 4.12 needs to leave the table. And anyway... we don't have something to fill a video with.

Next vid for 4.13. ;)

Yes. It needs to leave the table.

[Fighterace]

No, sorry guys! Its not the time for videos. 4.12 needs to leave the table. And anyway... we don't have something to fill a video with.

Next vid for 4.13. ;)

Sweet :)

[Alien]

Seems like just 2 weeks left ;D

[nic727]

Seems like just 2 weeks left ;D

Again:rolleyes:

[Bearcat]

No, sorry guys! Its not the time for videos. 4.12 needs to leave the table. And anyway... we don't have something to fill a video with.
Next vid for 4.13. ;)Yes. It needs to leave the table.

Yes it definitely needs to leave the table.. it is almost becoming a friggin joke.. No disrespect intended. I know this is all free stuff and I do appreciate it.. all of it.. but we have been waiting like cats at a mouse hole now for months.. There was speculation and insinuation that 4.12. would be released around Christmas/New Year give or take a week or two.. and now June is right around the corner.. and all the two weeks stuff is just not funny anymore. Thanks in advance TD for all your hard work.. and I am certain that on my part at least, a lot more will be forthcoming once it is finally released.. but for now it is just "yeah right.. whatever... whenever... whatever..." I hope that 4.13 or whatever the next patch will be called is not this long and drawn out because we have been getting development updates on 4.12 for over a year.. This thread is over a year old. If you guys plan to release one patch a year just say so.. Please... We will wait... and we will look at each update and say to ourselves.. "Boy when this patch comes out next year it'll be GREAT!!" but this year long right around the corner stuff is very frustrating..

[Spudkopf]

In a possibly futile attempt to bring this thread back onto topic i.e. 4.12 development update discussion and feedback, I was wondering if any of the love so lavishly spent on the Beaufort, especially where the engines and wings are concerned managed to spill on over to the Beaufighter or if not could this be considered for 4.13.

I make it no secret that I spend most of my time in this sim on ground attack and as an Aussie the Beaufighter along with the A20 are my rides of preference when flying in what is my home theatre of ops, Both types but in particular the Beaufighter have engines that are very prominent in ones POV and it would be nice to see some of that engine blockieness as well as those sharp leading edges disappear.

Like most here I wait with great anticipation the masterpiece that 4.12 will surely be.

Thanks again TD.

[julien673]

Yes it definitely needs to leave the table.. it is almost becoming a friggin joke.. No disrespect intended. I know this is all free stuff and I do appreciate it.. all of it.. but we have been waiting like cats at a mouse hole now for months.. There was speculation and insinuation that 4.12. would be released around Christmas/New Year give or take a week or two.. and now June is right around the corner.. and all the two weeks stuff is just not funny anymore. Thanks in advance TD for all your hard work.. and I am certain that on my part at least, a lot more will be forthcoming once it is finally released.. but for now it is just "yeah right.. whatever... whenever... whatever..." I hope that 4.13 or whatever the next patch will be called is not this long and drawn out because we have been getting development updates on 4.12 for over a year.. This thread is over a year old. If you guys plan to release one patch a year just say so.. Please... We will wait... and we will look at each update and say to ourselves.. "Boy when this patch comes out next year it'll be GREAT!!" but this year long right around the corner stuff is very frustrating..


Maybe they just add some more stuff that why, and they can t stop to add some more and more and more and more and more ....:-P

And now they are thinking, why not the add that night fighter in this 4.12 :confused::rolleyes:;):grin::-P

[bf-110]

Good,good!Can't wait to play with the Ki-45!Marines better be careful...

[stugumby]

Just curious as to how the Beaufort will be done as its capable of level bombing at altitude and also low level torpedo runs. I have noticed that the val is aggressive and returns to strafe, the stuka will not etc, same with pe-2 vs pe-3. Will it be aggressive like an a-20g or passive like a heinkle? Dive bomb capable or just glide bomb etc.

[Aviar]

In a possibly futile attempt to bring this thread back onto topic i.e. 4.12 development update discussion and feedback, I was wondering if any of the love so lavishly spent on the Beaufort, especially where the engines and wings are concerned managed to spill on over to the Beaufighter or if not could this be considered for 4.13.

I make it no secret that I spend most of my time in this sim on ground attack and as an Aussie the Beaufighter along with the A20 are my rides of preference when flying in what is my home theatre of ops, Both types but in particular the Beaufighter have engines that are very prominent in ones POV and it would be nice to see some of that engine blockieness as well as those sharp leading edges disappear.

Like most here I wait with great anticipation the masterpiece that 4.12 will surely be.

Thanks again TD.


Something like this?

Aviar

[Spudkopf]

Something like this?

Aviar

Yes, much like that, however those you have shown are the non-TD mods are they not? And although I have been tempted to cross over to the dark side many times I’m still trying to remain an official update purist, but mods like this and that gun nose A20C make it very hard at times.

Yoda: Yes, run! Yes, a Jedi's strength flows from the Force. But beware of the dark side. Anger, fear, aggression; the dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a fight. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will, as it did Obi-Wan's apprentice.
Luke: Vader...is the dark side stronger?
Yoda: No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.
Luke: But how am I to know the good side from the bad?
Yoda: You will know...when you are calm, at peace, passive. A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, NEVER for attack.
Luke: But tell my why I can't...
Yoda: No, no! There is no "why".

[CWMV]

Well, ignorance is bliss I suppose.

[Spudkopf]

Well, ignorance is bliss I suppose.


Its not so much ignorance, but more like fear, I've not been shy in the past to mod the hell out of things and have even done a lot of it myself, however while this sim' is still being supported I choose to stick with the official patch work knowing this is the safest way to avoid any potential clashes.

Yet if there are ways to implement outside changes without adversely effecting any future TD patch then I welcome the opportunity of being lead out of this condition ignorance/fear.

[Luno13]

No need to criticize anyone for not using mods. It's not like they are some light shining upon all the blind and forgotten souls groping in the barren abyss.

Everyone's different. I've installed mods to nearly every game I've played, even those still under development, but Il-2's case is just weird. I tried the mods, but I just couldn't get into them. I love a lot of the mods, but I'd rather leave it alone until it's finished, just like Spud here.

[Bearcat]

Yes, much like that, however those you have shown are the non-TD mods are they not? And although I have been tempted to cross over to the dark side many times I’m still trying to remain an official update purist, but mods like this and that gun nose A20C make it very hard at times.

No dark side to cross over to..


Its not so much ignorance, but more like fear, I've not been shy in the past to mod the hell out of things and have even done a lot of it myself, however while this sim' is still being supported I choose to stick with the official patch work knowing this is the safest way to avoid any potential clashes.

Yet if there are ways to implement outside changes without adversely effecting any future TD patch then I welcome the opportunity of being lead out of this condition ignorance/fear.

Do yourself a favor.. and copy your 4.11.1 install to another location.. Then install HSFX 6.0 to that installation.. You will find nothing dark .. and bear in mind that HSFX is compatible with 4.11.1.

[IceFire]

No dark side to cross over to..




Do yourself a favor.. and copy your 4.11.1 install to another location.. Then install HSFX 6.0 to that installation.. You will find nothing dark .. and bear in mind that HSFX is compatible with 4.11.1.

But it would be nice if they would bother fixing some of the more nagging multiplayer related bugs and stop modifying stock maps in drastic ways and then leaving them named the same way...

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I use to play with HSFX in multiplayer (i.e. SEOW) and so far its ok, but it always leaves a 'something's odd' feeling behind. I think, especially the so called 'EXPERT MODE' is highly suspicious, and I try to avoid it as much as I can.

[Spudkopf]

Caspar

Can you shed any light onto my original question which lead to this talk of HSFX, in regards to has any of the love from the beaufort spread over to the Beaufighter?

[Fenice_1965]

But it would be nice if they would bother fixing some of the more nagging multiplayer related bugs and stop modifying stock maps in drastic ways and then leaving them named the same way...

Agree 100%

[Aviar]

I use to play with HSFX in multiplayer (i.e. SEOW) and so far its ok, but it always leaves a 'something's odd' feeling behind. I think, especially the so called 'EXPERT MODE' is highly suspicious, and I try to avoid it as much as I can.

Agreed. Expert Mode really messed with a lot of the FM's. Also, a lot of my coops have Objectives and they do not work in Expert Mode.

That being said, HSFX-6 in non-Expert Mode has a lot to offer. I can only wish that stock IL-2 had some of it's features.

Aviar

[shelby]

That is why the patch slows to release :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeP8M820Pb8

[Aviar]

Since you had a ':p' in your post, I'm sure you are aware that those were not members of Daidalos Team.

Aviar

[JG27CaptStubing]

I hope someone has time to look at the Anton FMs again. 4.11 made them very strange. Certainly a little bit better in turns and climbs ruined their top speed and acceleration is garbage. Goofball landings as well.

[rber474]

DT,

I have in mind to patch FBDJ for include the new difficulty settings, the shared kill/score option and his ingame setup setting (historical/on/off)

Would it be possible to get a copy of a event.log or just the lines where the shared score is and the names of the new difficulty settings?

Thanks in advance!

[Pershing]

DT,

I have in mind to patch FBDJ for include the new difficulty settings, the shared kill/score option and his ingame setup setting (historical/on/off)


+100500
Also wonder about FBDj + 4.12. How can we use new features?

[Alien]

Something related to shared kills just came to my mind - the Luftwaffe (and perhaps some other countries) did not have shared kills! Would it be possible to apply them just for the air forces that actually used them?

[P-38L]

Hello DT

Talking about the beautiful job that you did on the Pe-8, I have a little request if it is possible. The location of the compass is blocked with the stick, so every time I have to check the compass I have to pull the stick all the way just to see it. Can you move the compass to another location on the main panel?

You can check what I am talking about in the following pictures.

http://imageshack.us/a/img248/3243/pe801.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img689/4531/pe802.jpg



Thank you.

[Sita]

and set digital compass more modern model)

[Pursuivant]

Something related to shared kills just came to my mind - the Luftwaffe (and perhaps some other countries) did not have shared kills! Would it be possible to apply them just for the air forces that actually used them?

It wouldn't be that hard to have the option of to turn off kill sharing. Turning kill sharing off just means that the game reverts to the old model. In that case, full credit should go to the pilot who inflicted the most damage on the downed plane rather than the last pilot to hit it.

Of course, the Luftwaffe had its own strange kill-claiming system, with a U.S. heavy bomber counting as two kills if you shot it down while it was in formation and one kill if you shot it out of formation or shot it down while it was out of formation. :)

[The Stalker]

@P-38L

Use head movement controls.

[P-38L]

It is better try before talk.
I have a TrackIR device and the movements are not enough to reach the compass. And with the new key to move the head inside the cockpit neither.

[Airway]

Nice post deleting here

[GROHOT]

Nice post deleting here

What post?
@DT: RC testing already finished or not?

[nic727]

What post?
@DT: RC testing already finished or not?

:?:o:-P;):rolleyes::confused::evil::cool::)

[CWMV]

It wouldn't be that hard to have the option of to turn off kill sharing. Turning kill sharing off just means that the game reverts to the old model. In that case, full credit should go to the pilot who inflicted the most damage on the downed plane rather than the last pilot to hit it.

Of course, the Luftwaffe had its own strange kill-claiming system, with a U.S. heavy bomber counting as two kills if you shot it down while it was in formation and one kill if you shot it out of formation or shot it down while it was out of formation. :)

That's an old an inaccurate idea about the Luftwaffe scoring system, which was more thorough than any of the allies. 4 motors counted for more points towards awards, but only as one kill.

[The Stalker]

It is better try before talk.
I have a TrackIR device and the movements are not enough to reach the compass. And with the new key to move the head inside the cockpit neither.

I managed to get a pretty decent view of the gyrocompass using the head movement up and forward, and a little left. I'm only trying to help, no need to get upset.

http://s15.postimg.org/gl36cpmd7/grab0000.jpg

[Pursuivant]

That's an old an inaccurate idea about the Luftwaffe scoring system, which was more thorough than any of the allies. 4 motors counted for more points towards awards, but only as one kill.

Thanks for the correction.

I wonder if IL2 uses actual Luftwaffe scoring systems for awards? Of all the awards systems, it's the most mechanistic.

While it's a trivial matter, I like historical accuracy in awards structure. It would be nice to have both "point based" and "luck based" awards systems in place. For example, in 1944, a USAAF pilot should get the Air Medal for every confirmed kill and the Distinguished Flying Cross for every group of multiple kills or for 50 missions (or at the end of every campaign simulating a single tour of duty). In addition to that, there should also be a chance of getting higher level awards (Silver Star, Distinguished Service Cross, Medal of Honor) based on some algorithm that takes into account poor odds, personal risk, sacrifice, saving the lives of others, mission importance and year.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Something related to shared kills just came to my mind - the Luftwaffe (and perhaps some other countries) did not have shared kills! Would it be possible to apply them just for the air forces that actually used them?

We have included an option for 'historical kill share' - if enabled, germans and other, that didn't, will not share.

[El Supremo]

Hey Caspar,

wie schaut's aus, kann man bereits absehen wann es soweit ist? Bestimmt keine zwei Wochen mehr, oder?

Hey Caspar,

can you give us an estimate for the release of the patch? It surely won't take two weeks anymore, right?

Cheers / Grüsse

El Supremo

[IceFire]

Hey Caspar,

wie schaut's aus, kann man bereits absehen wann es soweit ist? Bestimmt keine zwei Wochen mehr, oder?

Hey Caspar,

can you give us an estimate for the release of the patch? It surely won't take two weeks anymore, right?

Cheers / Grüsse

El Supremo

You know the 'two weeks' thing is an old IL-2 community joke? It's been going for years... probably won't ever die.

[Treetop64]

You know the 'two weeks' thing is an old IL-2 community joke? It's been going for years... probably won't ever die.

...be sure.

[El Supremo]

You know the 'two weeks' thing is an old IL-2 community joke? It's been going for years... probably won't ever die.

Well, as a matter of fact . . . I do :cool:

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Tja, also wir sind kurz davor, einen nächsten Release-Kandidaten zu erstellen, der dann noch getestet werden muß. Der letzte RC hat die Erwartungen nicht erfüllt. Ich bin aber zuversichtlich, daß es keine Showstopper mehr gibt. 'nen Zeitpunkt möchte ich aber nicht nennen. Am Ende stimmt das mal mit den 'zwei Wochen' und dann ist der schöne Scherz dahin. :)

Well, we are shortly before compiling a next release candidate, which has then to be tested first. The last one didn't fulfill the expectations. But I am pretty sure, that there are no showstoppers left. I won't name a release date though. Maybe it could fit with 'two weeks' and then that great joke would completely be in vain. :)

[sniperton]

Tja, also wir sind kurz davor, einen nächsten Release-Kandidaten zu erstellen, der dann noch getestet werden muß. Der letzte RC hat die Erwartungen nicht erfüllt. Ich bin aber zuversichtlich, daß es keine Showstopper mehr gibt. 'nen Zeitpunkt möchte ich aber nicht nennen. Am Ende stimmt das mal mit den 'zwei Wochen' und dann ist der schöne Scherz dahin. :)

Fabelhaft :) (in all den Sinnen des Wortes, um beim schönen Scherz zu bleiben) :lol:

[~BeoWolf~]

the term "Two Weeks" is no good unless you put the "Be Sure" on the end of it.

In the USN, if you heard someone telling you a "Sea Story" it was prolly a lie unless is was preceded by "This is a no Shitter".............

Two Weeks...... be sure.....

BeoWolf

[Treetop64]

the term "Two Weeks" is no good unless you put the "Be Sure" on the end of it.

In the USN, if you heard someone telling you a "Sea Story" it was prolly a lie unless is was preceded by "This is a no Shitter".............

Two Weeks...... be sure.....

BeoWolf

...no *kidding*.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

You is wrong. Be sure.

[Storebror]

Kishon would say: After the holidays. Be sure.

Best regards - Mike

[Snake]

It will be for sure this year! :)
Christmas?! :D

[sniperton]

Kishon would say: After the holidays. Be sure.

Anyone remembers when a child? The feel before christmas gifts are finally presented? A bit of nostalgia, I know, but now I remember. Thanks for that for TD. (Just shoot me, chaps, for sure) :rolleyes::-P

[PilotError]

It will be for sure this year! :)
Christmas?! :D

Are you sure you are sure ? :)

[Storebror]

Actually "after the holidays" according to Kishon has a slightly different meaning than "after the holidays" ;)

Best regards - Mike

[sniperton]

Actually "after the holidays" according to Kishon has a slightly different meaning than "after the holidays" ;)

I'm only sure that I'm not sure whether I can be sure as to the meaning of 'after the holidays'. Anyway, cheers to all, and back to work! :grin:

[nic727]

Tja, also wir sind kurz davor, einen nächsten Release-Kandidaten zu erstellen, der dann noch getestet werden muß. Der letzte RC hat die Erwartungen nicht erfüllt. Ich bin aber zuversichtlich, daß es keine Showstopper mehr gibt. 'nen Zeitpunkt möchte ich aber nicht nennen. Am Ende stimmt das mal mit den 'zwei Wochen' und dann ist der schöne Scherz dahin. :)

Well, we are shortly before compiling a next release candidate, which has then to be tested first. The last one didn't fulfill the expectations. But I am pretty sure, that there are no showstoppers left. I won't name a release date though. Maybe it could fit with 'two weeks' and then that great joke would completely be in vain. :)

Can't wait :-P

[beazil]

*pads miniscule post count and watches thread hopefully*

[Tinpanzer87]

Hope they using all this time to add an extra plane or 2.

[Cloyd]

*pads miniscule post count and watches thread hopefully*

Forum posts are like golf putts...the fewer, the better. ;-)

Cloyd

[Pursuivant]

Hope they using all this time to add an extra plane or 2.

I'm sure it's nothing so fun.

At this point, it's probably {stomp bugs, compile code, run code, bang head on desk, repeat}

Have some sympathy for TD, they probably want this patch released as much as we do!

[MicroWave]

I'm sure it's nothing so fun.

At this point, it's probably {stomp bugs, compile code, run code, bang head on desk, repeat}

Have some sympathy for TD, they probably want this patch released as much as we do!

Yes, we do.

[GROHOT]

Dear MicroWave, please give for us 2 new screenshot, and we can wait next two week:-)

[Alien]

Dear MicroWave, please give for us 2 new screenshot, and we can wait next two week:-)

+1, but some JUICY ones please ;D

[robday]

Dear MicroWave, please give for us 2 new screenshot, and we can wait next two week:-)

TD are probably too busy getting the patch ready for release. It's not like they are getting paid for their work, they also have a life beyond IL2.
Have patience. it'll be worth it!

[Viikate]

It's not like they are getting paid for their work, they also have a life beyond IL2.
Indeed. When my son was born 6 months ago, this unpaid DT hobby got the lowest priority in my life.

[Luno13]

Congratulations! :)

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Indeed. When my son was born 6 months ago, this unpaid DT hobby got the lowest priority in my life.

Make a better world for him... go on with your hobby!!! :D

[fruitbat]

Make a better world for him... go on with your hobby!!! :D

lol!

Congrats Viikate!

[ElAurens]

Congratulations sir.

Family first, it's a golden rule.

[nic727]

Hey Daidalos Team,

Just found that on http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/ about HD cockpit for BF109 and it's just look amazing... Hope it will be in 4.13m for about all aircraft :)

http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee380/ASYLUM_thirteen/il2fb2013-04-2500-06-22-35_zpsb7630b8b.png
http://oi44.tinypic.com/4jvlmt.jpg

[ElAurens]

I wonder how many polys that is?

:rolleyes:

[jameson]

I wonder how many polys that is?

:rolleyes:

The Hawk 75 will have to go to fit it in the next patch, :(

[CWMV]

I wonder how many polys that is?

:rolleyes:

The same as the stock cockpits.
This is just a repaint of the (absolutely god awful horrendous) stock pit by Ice Eagle.

[_1SMV_Gitano]

From the new 4.12 release candidate, hopefully the last one...

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd179/Gitano1979/grab0048_zpsbce1862c.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd179/Gitano1979/grab0049_zps16968b1f.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd179/Gitano1979/grab0052_zpsa23923bb.jpg

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd179/Gitano1979/grab0053_zps99475491.jpg

[Pursuivant]

Looks like more Beaufort appreciation screenshots in the first one, although maybe there's something else I'm missing.

Second one might be slightly altered model for the A6M2.

Third one is Mohawk I with British ordinance. Nice addition.

Fourth is another teaser of the Hawk 75 cockpit and reticle brightness modification. It's too dark to tell if it's the Finnish 'pit or some other nationality.

All very nice. Thanks for the teasers!

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Looks like more Beaufort appreciation screenshots in the first one, although maybe there's something else I'm missing.

Second one might be slightly altered model for the A6M2.

Third one is Mohawk I with British ordinance. Nice addition.

Fourth is another teaser of the Hawk 75 cockpit and reticle brightness modification. It's too dark to tell if it's the Finnish 'pit or some other nationality.

All very nice. Thanks for the teasers!

1 - Yep, Beaufort Mk.II with RAAF camouflage;

2 - No, I just took the A6M since the Beaufort is not flyable;

3 - Mohawk IV with 6x40lb GP bombs;

4 - It's finnish version, the Mohawk is not flyable.

cheers

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Hey Daidalos Team,

Just found that on http://allaircraftsimulations.com/forum/ about HD cockpit for BF109 and it's just look amazing... Hope it will be in 4.13m for about all aircraft :)


Thats some of the biggest sh..t available. Its not even really worth to comment.
I am sooo tired to see these cockpit repaint in requests again and again! So far I have not seen one Bf109 cockpit, that was even near to Il-2 standards.

Pls stop these request -we will do an own version one better day.

EDIT: No disrespect to the work and time spend into painting - some textures do really look great. If just anyone would care for a proper remodeling/remapping, using standards - it could look the very same and would be right. But noone does.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

4 - Reticle brightness.

[Ala13_Kokakolo]

Pls stop these request -we will do an own version one better day.

Thank you, thank you thank you.... ad infinitum.

[MicroWave]

...

Pls stop these request -we will do an own version one better day.

...
And it probably won't have Goebbels family photo in it.

[sniperton]

And it probably won't have Goebbels family photo in it.

:):):)

[nic727]

Thats some of the biggest sh..t available. Its not even really worth to comment.
I am sooo tired to see these cockpit repaint in requests again and again! So far I have not seen one Bf109 cockpit, that was even near to Il-2 standards.

Pls stop these request -we will do an own version one better day.

EDIT: No disrespect to the work and time spend into painting - some textures do really look great. If just anyone would care for a proper remodeling/remapping, using standards - it could look the very same and would be right. But noone does.
Yes I know that it will be your own in the futur, I just said that it could be nice to have a HD cockpit :)

[Spudkopf]

From the new 4.12 release candidate, hopefully the last one..


I know I've already asked this question twice, but sadly have not had a TD response as of yet, so maybe you can answer if you have the time:

Have any of the upgraded features on the Beaufort migrated over to the whispering death aka Beaufighter and if not can this be considered for 4.13?

BTW the RAAF Beauforts look great!

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

Have any of the upgraded features on the Beaufort migrated over to the whispering death aka Beaufighter and if not can this be considered for 4.13?


Speaking of the engine nacelles? Not yet. But its possible. However, the author of Beauforts has turned to more real life issues currently and a migration to Beaufighters is a bit on the low priority side for us anyway.

[sabyyy]

Hi,

I mostly play the Balaton map in IL2.
In UP, the hills are 'there', but in 4.11, the map is flat without hills.
Anyone knows whether this is addressed in 4.12, or this is something not depending on patches but I should address this some other way?
Apologies if this is not the correct thread for this, so a link to the correct thread would also be appreciated.

Thanks

[Asheshouse]

If I remember correctly the original Balaton map mods were by Vpmedia and included a new terrain height map (map_c) and new ground textures.

Balaton was one of the early experimental map mods where a lot of the map making "secrets" were unlocked.

[Spudkopf]

Speaking of the engine nacelles? Not yet. But its possible. However, the author of Beauforts has turned to more real life issues currently and a migration to Beaufighters is a bit on the low priority side for us anyway.

Thanks for the answer, although I have to admit I'm a tad disappointed though as the Beau' has become one of my favourite rides. But thems the breaks I guess.

As a solid works trained draftsperson maybe I should look into reading the modelling bible and see what I can do to help.

[IceFire]

Thanks for the answer, although I have to admit I'm a tad disappointed though as the Beau' has become one of my favourite rides. But thems the breaks I guess.

As a solid works trained draftsperson maybe I should look into reading the modelling bible and see what I can do to help.

I think the case of 3D modelling work is that the more there is the merrier! It's not easy. I've tried... :D

[sabyyy]

If I remember correctly the original Balaton map mods were by Vpmedia and included a new terrain height map (map_c) and new ground textures.

Balaton was one of the early experimental map mods where a lot of the map making "secrets" were unlocked.

Great thanks! By your answer, google led me to Vpmedia's site, so now I can use the updated maps in. 4.11, and hopefully will be able to use them in 4.12 if they are not already there.

[Asheshouse]

You can only add maps if your game is modded.
If you only want to add maps then use SAS Mod Activator v4 for v4.11

Ashe

[GROHOT]

Indeed. When my son was born 6 months ago, this unpaid DT hobby got the lowest priority in my life.

Dear Viikate, Congratulate!!!
You very happy I hope?
Family - famous!!!

[GROHOT]

From the new 4.12 release candidate, hopefully the last one...


BIG THANKS!!!
This image give me hope about patch!!!
Best regards, GROHOT!

[GROHOT]

Dear TD, Mohawk IV and other Hawk in future be flyable?
Thank!!!

[IceFire]

Great thanks! By your answer, google led me to Vpmedia's site, so now I can use the updated maps in. 4.11, and hopefully will be able to use them in 4.12 if they are not already there.

Ahh so it's VPMedia who I should complain to. I love the guy but wish he had modified the names too... backwards compatibility is a huge problem online and offline using older campaigns.

[RegRag1977]

we will do an own version one better day.



Cool! You guys rock...

Thanks guys for the pictures and news, it always makes my day :)

[Pershing]

Well, we are shortly before compiling a next release candidate..

Is the candidate still candidate or already not?)

[Fenice_1965]

Ahh so it's VPMedia who I should complain to. I love the guy but wish he had modified the names too... backwards compatibility is a huge problem online and offline using older campaigns.

I agree 1001% Icefire. There are a lot of issues related to the name confusion between "stock maps" and "modded stock maps", with no effective rewards.

[IceFire]

Some photos that I'm able to share with everyone from 4.12. The final 4.12 patch is closer and closer but until then I'll try and share some fun stuff.

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen01_zps72957eb7.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen01_zps72957eb7.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen02_zpscd2adeac.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen02_zpscd2adeac.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen04_zps9ef94235.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen04_zps9ef94235.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen05_zpsc69def3f.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen05_zpsc69def3f.jpg.html)

[IceFire]

And a bunch more...

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen06_zpse4f8baa7.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen06_zpse4f8baa7.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen07_zpsa91ab037.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen07_zpsa91ab037.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen08_zps4bdee21c.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen08_zps4bdee21c.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen09_zps02332557.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen09_zps02332557.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen10_zps163bc064.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen10_zps163bc064.jpg.html)

[IceFire]

And finally...


http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen11_zps10e2d007.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen11_zps10e2d007.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen12_zpsf4e2fbd0.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen12_zpsf4e2fbd0.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen13_zpsf418833b.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen13_zpsf418833b.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen14_zpsd9b80d39.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen14_zpsd9b80d39.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen15_zps49ddd5f5.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen15_zps49ddd5f5.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen16_zps17147c47.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen16_zps17147c47.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen17_zpsefd02187.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen17_zpsefd02187.jpg.html)

[nic727]

What??? It's released? Where?

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!

lol.

Will it be available toomorow?

[IceFire]

What??? It's released? Where?

ARRRGGGGG!!!!!

lol.

Will it be available toomorow?

No it's not released. Work continues. These are some screen shots from a couple of the RC's that I spent some time taking for your enjoyment.

[CWMV]

Ah so the landing gear damage mod has been incorporated in some form eh?

[GROHOT]

Dear IceFire, thats picture awesome!!!
http://avivas.ru/photo_view/74945.html - its my look for pict...

[Snake]

No it's not released. Work continues. These are some screen shots from a couple of the RC's that I spent some time taking for your enjoyment.

Work continues on what? I thought it's.....done! :confused:

[Derda508]

Thanks a lot IceFire.
The pics look great!

[_1SMV_Gitano]

Work continues on what? I thought it's.....done! :confused:

The work on bug-hunting/fixing. The 3rd RC was expected to have no critical bugs but at least one was found. We all hope to find no more such bugs and release the patch!

EDIT: about landing gear damage: such feature was not taken from mods.

[anikollag]

Thanks for screen shoots. Very nice :grin:)
Juste a simple question? Why not to take the mod for landing gear damage? Compatibility?

[shelby]

can we have a screen shot of the new p-40?

[IceFire]

Work continues on what? I thought it's.....done! :confused:

Once you have content complete then you start release candidate testing and that can take a while... Especially when critical bugs pop up. At least half the battle is making sure that the patch gets released with no serious bugs.

[Tuphlandng]

I know many wont agree But I say take your time Get it as close to perfect as you can
I would rather have a decent patch then one that that has a gag of bugs

As always Your doing an Awesome job Keep it up

And Thanks again

[SPITACE]

How many gb/mb will 4.12 be when it is out?? :confused:

[MicroWave]

How many gb/mb will 4.12 be when it is out?? :confused:

Not much. About 250 MB.

[SPITACE]

That's good :-P

[Monty_Thrud]

Anychance of two weeks from today...? :D

[MicroWave]

Anychance of two weeks from today...? :D

Be sure.

[Borsch]

I really wish old fire and smoke effects will be selctable in config or something. I really do not like the "sausage" smoke and overall Oleg's effects just fit the picture much-much better imho.

[IceFire]

I really wish old fire and smoke effects will be selctable in config or something. I really do not like the "sausage" smoke and overall Oleg's effects just fit the picture much-much better imho.

I suspect that may be very difficult to have both sets... Not sure what you mean by "sausage" effect tho. In motion the new effects are really spectacular. Well worth it.

[Fenice_1965]

What about attempts to upgrade FBDJ software to fit 4.12 ?

[Borsch]

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen11_zps10e2d007.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen11_zps10e2d007.jpg.html)



This is what I meant by "sausage" (pipe-cleaner etc) - smoke trail does not widen but remains constant diameter.
I'll reserve my final judgements until I see them in motion, but if the effects can not be disabled... oh well, I'll just need to get used to them/ go back to 4.11/install a mod with original effects or plutonium.

[KG26_Alpha]

What about attempts to upgrade FBDJ software to fit 4.12 ?

And who is going to make the MySql PhP Apache server tutorials ?

If they made it click n host with online server stats without learning installing all the above then +1

But I think it will remain as it is with v4.1x fitting FBDj not the other way around.

:)










.

[IceFire]

This is what I meant by "sausage" (pipe-cleaner etc) - smoke trail does not widen but remains constant diameter.
I'll reserve my final judgements until I see them in motion, but if the effects can not be disabled... oh well, I'll just need to get used to them/ go back to 4.11/install a mod with original effects or plutonium.

Thanks for explaining... I believe there is a subtle widening for the effect while it fades... overall I think it looks quite stunning. Especially combined with some of the new fire and flame effects.

[Borsch]

Thanks for explaining... I believe there is a subtle widening for the effect while it fades... overall I think it looks quite stunning. Especially combined with some of the new fire and flame effects.

Look forward to seeing them! :)

[Fenice_1965]

And who is going to make the MySql PhP Apache server tutorials ?

If they made it click n host with online server stats without learning installing all the above then +1

But I think it will remain as it is with v4.1x fitting FBDj not the other way around.

:)










.

This is an idea for future releases: a click and host interface to be integrated with next releases of ded server.
Btw I heard that some was already thinking to work on FBDJ to adapt it to 4.12, I hoped things were going on.
I suppose it can be quite simple if people who had the idea are not left alone to update it and find a bit of help in the community.
~S~

[RegRag1977]

I know many wont agree But I say take your time Get it as close to perfect as you can
I would rather have a decent patch then one that that has a gag of bugs

As always Your doing an Awesome job Keep it up

And Thanks again

Yes, absolutely!

When the patch comes out and there is no bug, then this will be an impressive achievement for a non professional team.

So i second that: "take your time Get it as close to perfect as you can "

You guys rock and you know it.

[Spinnetti]

Ah so the landing gear damage mod has been incorporated in some form eh?


looks great! - I know I've irritated people on the mod sites with this, but the FW had an all electric landing gear (one of, if not the first) - unless the motor got hit it wouldn't flop open like hydro systems do with pressure loss... few seem to want to model this correctly

[Treetop64]

And finally...


http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen14_zpsd9b80d39.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen14_zpsd9b80d39.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen15_zps49ddd5f5.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen15_zps49ddd5f5.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen16_zps17147c47.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen16_zps17147c47.jpg.html)

http://i1121.photobucket.com/albums/l509/cczerneda/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen17_zpsefd02187.jpg (http://s1121.photobucket.com/user/cczerneda/media/IL-2%201946%20412/412screen17_zpsefd02187.jpg.html)

The SB alone is worth calling in sick for.
When 4.12 is released, I will be defending the Glorious City of Leningrad in my beautiful SB-2, all while listening to Shostakovich's 7th Symphony!

OohRAAAHHH!!!

[CWMV]

looks great! - I know I've irritated people on the mod sites with this, but the FW had an all electric landing gear (one of, if not the first) - unless the motor got hit it wouldn't flop open like hydro systems do with pressure loss... few seem to want to model this correctly

:rolleyes:
At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCdWYttR7s8

I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

[Treetop64]

looks great! - I know I've irritated people on the mod sites with this, but the FW had an all electric landing gear (one of, if not the first) - unless the motor got hit it wouldn't flop open like hydro systems do with pressure loss... few seem to want to model this correctly

Not only damage to the motors, but damage to the uplocks and any of the joints could cause them to drop as well. Just because the gear actuation was electric doesn't mean they were impervious to damage. Electrical systems are beneficial because they save weight and complexity, not because they are indestructible.

[Spudkopf]

To me the footage is quite inconclusive in regards to determining if the gear dropping is due to damage or as a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender), the fact that the pilot does not seem to take any evasive action at all just raises far too many questions as to the true circumstances of whats actually happening here. Further you can only see the starboard wing at the moment the gear begins to drop so it is also unclear what is happening on the port wing.

I'm not in any way disputing the possibility or non-possibility of a gear failure drop and do not have an opinion either way, but I do have to question the validity of the video evidence presented.

[ElAurens]

a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender),


Um, that was not a clip from a video game. It's war, no real combat pilot would take the gear comming down to have any meaning other than system failure due to damage.

[EJGr.Ost_Caspar]

I've once seen a different vid, showing a hit Fw190 extending its one gear. Dunno where to find though.

[Treetop64]

...a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender)...

...In a naive, fairy tale world.

In the video, it is the real world, in a real war. The pilot doing the shooting doesn't have time to assume that the gear dropping is a sign of surrender. His job is to destroy the aircraft, and he sees signs of that occurring.

What if he thought "Oh, his gear is dropping. That means he surrenders. I'll leave him be now.", only to end up being shot at by the guy he just left alone after he had a change of heart. Kinda silly.

On the other hand, fighter vs. bomber situations over western Europe could sometimes play out differently, as there have been documented cases fighter pilots escorting badly damaged enemy bombers home, though that occurred very seldom.

...the fact that the pilot does not seem to take any evasive action at all just raises far too many questions as to the true circumstances of whats actually happening here.

Yes, it does raise questions. The pilot could already be wounded and unable to maneuver. He could have panicked and "froze". Maybe it's a novice pilot and he has no idea what to do. Maybe he's just given up to the apparently inevitable.

However, what is obvious is that a pilot in his aircraft is being shot down. No reason to imply that something else is going on here. It's war, and it's hell.

Further you can only see the starboard wing at the moment the gear begins to drop so it is also unclear what is happening on the port wing.

So, what?

I'm not in any way disputing the possibility or non-possibility of a gear failure drop and do not have an opinion either way, but I do have to question the validity of the video evidence presented.

Well, you're certainly free to do so. No real reason to bring the video footage to the fringes of conspiracy theory, however. It's fairly straight-forward.

[Spudkopf]

Um, that was not a clip from a video game. It's war, no real combat pilot would take the gear comming down to have any meaning other than system failure due to damage.

No need to treat me like I'm some three year old Hollywood inspired moron........I'll admit the surrender thing is probably fantasy and a wrong call, but there are numerous documented accounts of the dropping of gear including by mistake.

That aside my point is that as evidence, this clip on its own is next to useless without some knowledge as to the circumstances in which it was taken so unless there is an after action report or other data available or unless you are an expert in such things, then the only two people who really knew what happened in that clip are the pilots.

Sorry to be so negative.

Again I have no issues with the possibility that the gear could drop on the Fw-190 as a result of battle damage, just the assumptions made about this particular clip.

[DuxCorvan]

Maybe... he realized he was near the ground and released the gear for a desperate landing (stupid, but who knows what we'd do in a panic)... Too many assumptions, we really don't know what was happening in there.

[Cloyd]

It's time for the patch when respected, long time members of this community are sniping at each other about stupid sh!t. GIVE US A PATCH TO WHINE ABOUT!!!

;-)

Cloyd

[Spinnetti]

:rolleyes:
At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCdWYttR7s8

I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

So you've taken it upon yourself to curate the internet now? I have owned a replica FW190, and studied the systems extensively. My particular interest is in landing gear design and I make working (flyable) miniature replica gear also. I have a good working understanding of both electrical and hydraulic systems, text books on gear design etc, and your comments mean nothing to me, nor does your video prove any poorly reasoned explanation you may have. If the FW system to a catastrophic hit in the gear retract motor it would drop like a rock, not motor down. Your video proves nothing other than that that gear was lowering under power. The system uses a highly geared motor that will not drop down with or without the gear uplock being functional. At worst it would just sag an inch or so taking up any gear lash in the mechanism. This is quite unlike virtually any other WWII aircraft, and it would be neat to see it modeled in accordance to the actual function. You are welcome to disagree, but it doesn't make your comments valid, nor does it invalidate my desire to see this unique function modeled.

[felix_the_fat]

regarding possible reasons for gear drops:
Johnnie Johnson ["Wing Leader" Penguin edn 1959 p301] wrote this about some 190s in the act of surrendering to some Spitfires:
"The Huns waggled their wings, dropped their undercarriages, and generally behaved in a nervous manner..."

As he described it, this happened in the last few days of the war.

[majorfailure]

:rolleyes:
At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.
I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

I don't think the gear drops due to damage - I think the Fw190 pilot is on a landing approach. Would explain the lack of reaction to beeing fired upon.

And on the ground in the distance, ther are some white specs that COULD be parked planes. They could be anything else that is light coloured and of roughly 10-50m size though (BIG white elephants)...

And the speeds the planes have seem to be slow, based on the wobbling both planes do.
And if the video speed is realtime, then they seem to travel slow, but without knowing for sure and by "eyeball measure" that's rather guesswork.

[SaQSoN]

In most designs the landing gear is held in a terminal position (be it up or down) by a mechanical lock, not by an actuator, no matter is it electrical, hydraulic, or pneumatic. The actuating system at the terminal positions of the gear is usually in power off state to save on-board power and not to overstress the system.

So, by damaging the upper lock it is possible to drop down the gear, which is modeled in the recent update.

[CWMV]

So you've taken it upon yourself to curate the internet now? I have owned a replica FW190, and studied the systems extensively. My particular interest is in landing gear design and I make working (flyable) miniature replica gear also. I have a good working understanding of both electrical and hydraulic systems, text books on gear design etc, and your comments mean nothing to me, nor does your video prove any poorly reasoned explanation you may have. If the FW system to a catastrophic hit in the gear retract motor it would drop like a rock, not motor down. Your video proves nothing other than that that gear was lowering under power. The system uses a highly geared motor that will not drop down with or without the gear uplock being functional. At worst it would just sag an inch or so taking up any gear lash in the mechanism. This is quite unlike virtually any other WWII aircraft, and it would be neat to see it modeled in accordance to the actual function. You are welcome to disagree, but it doesn't make your comments valid, nor does it invalidate my desire to see this unique function modeled.

Ah now I remember, yes you said this over at SAS too.
Great that you owned a replica 190, kudos.
But it was a replica, and you never had a thunderbolt raining .50 into you trying to kill you.
You know the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words. So get to typing or better get some video evidence supporting your claim.

See my favorite part of the video is where the 190 starts getting shot, and then the gear starts to drop miraculously. Amazing coincidence.

But ya he's probably surrendering, cause it's 1916 in the video.

[KG26_Alpha]

Please read the article in the link at the bottom, the FW190 was a electrically geared system I cant see the gear dropping through damage only intentionally via the landing gear electrical switch.
Also there's a large red handle in the cockpit above the gear selection switches which iirc is a manual lock Notzug Fahrwerk lever the schematic operation of this I cannot find to hand at the moment.

Gear Operation
The gear is driven by an electrical motor.
As the gear retracts, a pressurized air bottle is loaded which lowers the gear in the event
of an electrical failure.
The electrical gear switches are located in the left console fairly at the centre in a
combined instrument along with the flap switches
The gear unlock mechanism is located left hand in the lower forward panel,
labelled “Notzug Fahrwerk”.
Retract gear: remove safety cover from switch and press it.
Extend gear: press switch to activate the gear motor,
next pull the lever to unlock the gear.
WARNING!
Always activate the gear motor before pulling the lever except in an
emergency. The gear can no longer be retracted otherwise.

I cannot see even if the electric motor was shot out and the gear locks the gear would drop it would have to be a miraculous shot from the attacker.

Of course I will stand corrected if someone provides evidence otherwise.

Not that any of this is important in the grand scheme of thing .....just for fun :)

I mean they still never corrected the spelling of the gear lock lever after all this time.

looks great! - I know I've irritated people on the mod sites with this, but the FW had an all electric landing gear (one of, if not the first) - unless the motor got hit it wouldn't flop open like hydro systems do with pressure loss... few seem to want to model this correctly

:rolleyes:
At same mod site, and in same mod thread, I posted this video of an Anton getting shot up, and showing the gear dropping.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCdWYttR7s8

I don't recall you responding there but please, just stop.

Not only damage to the motors, but damage to the uplocks and any of the joints could cause them to drop as well. Just because the gear actuation was electric doesn't mean they were impervious to damage. Electrical systems are beneficial because they save weight and complexity, not because they are indestructible.

To me the footage is quite inconclusive in regards to determining if the gear dropping is due to damage or as a deliberate act by the pilot (like a sign of surrender), the fact that the pilot does not seem to take any evasive action at all just raises far too many questions as to the true circumstances of whats actually happening here. Further you can only see the starboard wing at the moment the gear begins to drop so it is also unclear what is happening on the port wing.

I'm not in any way disputing the possibility or non-possibility of a gear failure drop and do not have an opinion either way, but I do have to question the validity of the video evidence presented.

Um, that was not a clip from a video game. It's war, no real combat pilot would take the gear comming down to have any meaning other than system failure due to damage.

I've once seen a different vid, showing a hit Fw190 extending its one gear. Dunno where to find though.

...In a naive, fairy tale world.

In the video, it is the real world, in a real war. The pilot doing the shooting doesn't have time to assume that the gear dropping is a sign of surrender. His job is to destroy the aircraft, and he sees signs of that occurring.

What if he thought "Oh, his gear is dropping. That means he surrenders. I'll leave him be now.", only to end up being shot at by the guy he just left alone after he had a change of heart. Kinda silly.

On the other hand, fighter vs. bomber situations over western Europe could sometimes play out differently, as there have been documented cases fighter pilots escorting badly damaged enemy bombers home, though that occurred very seldom.



Yes, it does raise questions. The pilot could already be wounded and unable to maneuver. He could have panicked and "froze". Maybe it's a novice pilot and he has no idea what to do. Maybe he's just given up to the apparently inevitable.

However, what is obvious is that a pilot in his aircraft is being shot down. No reason to imply that something else is going on here. It's war, and it's hell.



So, what?



Well, you're certainly free to do so. No real reason to bring the video footage to the fringes of conspiracy theory, however. It's fairly straight-forward.

No need to treat me like I'm some three year old Hollywood inspired moron........I'll admit the surrender thing is probably fantasy and a wrong call, but there are numerous documented accounts of the dropping of gear including by mistake.

That aside my point is that as evidence, this clip on its own is next to useless without some knowledge as to the circumstances in which it was taken so unless there is an after action report or other data available or unless you are an expert in such things, then the only two people who really knew what happened in that clip are the pilots.

Sorry to be so negative.

Again I have no issues with the possibility that the gear could drop on the Fw-190 as a result of battle damage, just the assumptions made about this particular clip.

Maybe... he realized he was near the ground and released the gear for a desperate landing (stupid, but who knows what we'd do in a panic)... Too many assumptions, we really don't know what was happening in there.

So you've taken it upon yourself to curate the internet now? I have owned a replica FW190, and studied the systems extensively. My particular interest is in landing gear design and I make working (flyable) miniature replica gear also. I have a good working understanding of both electrical and hydraulic systems, text books on gear design etc, and your comments mean nothing to me, nor does your video prove any poorly reasoned explanation you may have. If the FW system to a catastrophic hit in the gear retract motor it would drop like a rock, not motor down. Your video proves nothing other than that that gear was lowering under power. The system uses a highly geared motor that will not drop down with or without the gear uplock being functional. At worst it would just sag an inch or so taking up any gear lash in the mechanism. This is quite unlike virtually any other WWII aircraft, and it would be neat to see it modeled in accordance to the actual function. You are welcome to disagree, but it doesn't make your comments valid, nor does it invalidate my desire to see this unique function modeled.

regarding possible reasons for gear drops:
Johnnie Johnson ["Wing Leader" Penguin edn 1959 p301] wrote this about some 190s in the act of surrendering to some Spitfires:
"The Huns waggled their wings, dropped their undercarriages, and generally behaved in a nervous manner..."

As he described it, this happened in the last few days of the war.

I don't think the gear drops due to damage - I think the Fw190 pilot is on a landing approach. Would explain the lack of reaction to beeing fired upon.

And on the ground in the distance, ther are some white specs that COULD be parked planes. They could be anything else that is light coloured and of roughly 10-50m size though (BIG white elephants)...

And the speeds the planes have seem to be slow, based on the wobbling both planes do.
And if the video speed is realtime, then they seem to travel slow, but without knowing for sure and by "eyeball measure" that's rather guesswork.

In most designs the landing gear is held in a terminal position (be it up or down) by a mechanical lock, not by an actuator, no matter is it electrical, hydraulic, or pneumatic. The actuating system at the terminal positions of the gear is usually in power off state to save on-board power and not to overstress the system.

So, by damaging the upper lock it is possible to drop down the gear, which is modeled in the recent update.

Ah now I remember, yes you said this over at SAS too.
Great that you owned a replica 190, kudos.
But it was a replica, and you never had a thunderbolt raining .50 into you trying to kill you.
You know the old saying a picture is worth a thousand words. So get to typing or better get some video evidence supporting your claim.

See my favorite part of the video is where the 190 starts getting shot, and then the gear starts to drop miraculously. Amazing coincidence.

But ya he's probably surrendering, cause it's 1916 in the video.



http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/fw190landinggear_1.htm

[The_WOZ]

From reading the page linked by Alpha, and the translated Fw 190-A8 manual here: http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/fw190a8.pdf

My conclusions are these:

- If the uplocks are shot, the landing gear will gently drop down (the sealed air piston will force the gear down, but the high geared motor will make this a slow process), would probably need some shaking to completely lock down.
- The same will happen when the pilots tries to lower the gear if the electric motor is damaged.
- A damaged reduction gear will most probably made impossible to lowering that landing gear leg.
- A completely destroyed reduction gear will made the landing gear drop like a stone (when either the pilot tries to lower the gear or the uplocks are damaged), but it will never lock on the low position, and will collapse on touch down.

[stugumby]

photo 8 in that link had a dora 9, are those bomb or x4 racks under its wings?

[Spinnetti]

From reading the page linked by Alpha, and the translated Fw 190-A8 manual here: http://www.lexpev.nl/downloads/fw190a8.pdf

My conclusions are these:

- If the uplocks are shot, the landing gear will gently drop down (the sealed air piston will force the gear down, but the high geared motor will make this a slow process), would probably need some shaking to completely lock down.
- The same will happen when the pilots tries to lower the gear if the electric motor is damaged.
- A damaged reduction gear will most probably made impossible to lowering that landing gear leg.
- A completely destroyed reduction gear will made the landing gear drop like a stone (when either the pilot tries to lower the gear or the uplocks are damaged), but it will never lock on the low position, and will collapse on touch down.

Yep, you got it. If I remember right, it's geared 144:1, so it might come down slowly, part way or not at all. Of course if the retract arm is hit, down it falls. The uplock isn't actually required, but it takes the load off the electrical system which would constantly have to put load on the motor without it (eventually burning out the motor).

[nic727]

Anychance of two weeks from today...? :D

Be sure.

And now :)

[Spudkopf]

But ya he's probably surrendering, cause it's 1916 in the video.

I've already agreed that the idea of surrender was an unlikely romantic notion so please stop harping on about that point and try if you can to be respectful to others and constructive when expressing your opinion.

[Buster_Dee]

Bruce Carr was shot down in his P51, hid in a forest, stole a Fw190 from a nearby German airfield, and raced back to his base, figuring out the airplane as he went. Two days after bellying it in (and suffering his AA gunners' attention), a friend pulled on one of the "unexplained" controls, whereby the landing gear dropped down.

I know, pointless. But it's still funny.

[zipper]

The Fw190 landing gear, being electric, isn't going to "drop" unless the uplock is unlocked (a separate control Carr didn't know about) and the electric motor's gearbox is somehow damaged. The uplock is only needed for such a situation as the gear is otherwise quite immobile with power off. It might be that battle damage could short some circuits resulting in motoring an individual leg down, but the uplock would also have to be similarly damaged or previously unlocked.

(I've had to deal with some bizarre intermittent electrical problems on planes that resulted from somebody inadvertently running a drill bit into a wire bundle - lol. One had a DC-10 grounded for a week.)

Also, as the right leg moves the tailwheel moves as the two are cabled together, there being no separate tailwheel actuator.


Just doing my part to help build a potentially record setting thread.

[Buster_Dee]

zipper, Carr had figured out how to raise and lower the flaps. When he found the button to raise the gear, he assumed its mate was the lowering button. On final, he tried that button twice unsuccessfully. After a couple of days, he calmed down enough to take some friends to the wreck. One of them pulled on the lock and released the gear. What Carr meant by "drop," I don't know. Maybe it just dropped half an inch from backlash and made a sound. I used to think he meant to the ground until I read these forum comments. I think to model this well, various reactions to damage would be needed, and it would take several dedicated hit boxes. I don't know if there is a limit for hit boxes.

[Asheshouse]

Bruce Carr was shot down in his P51, hid in a forest, stole a Fw190 from a nearby German airfield, and raced back to his base, figuring out the airplane as he went. Two days after bellying it in (and suffering his AA gunners' attention), a friend pulled on one of the "unexplained" controls, whereby the landing gear dropped down.

I know, pointless. But it's still funny.

An amazing story -- but

The true story

from historian Steve Sheflin
The story of Bruce Carr “stealing” an Fw 190 and escaping from behind enemy lines is patently untrue. In AIRFOIL #2 , Steve Blake and I published a short article debunking this apocryphal story. As part of his research, Steve Blake spoke to Col. Felix Kozaczka, one of Carr’s wingmen, who was present during the flight and belly landing. Kozaczka told him in no uncertain terms that the more lurid aspects of this story never occurred.
Like many pilots after the war, Carr wanted to fly a German plane. Carr hitchhiked to Linz, Austria, where he chose the now-well-known Fw 190 A-6/A-8 hybrid, “31+ ~ Red” for his mount. After flying back to Ansbach with an escort of 354th FG P-51s, Carr couldn’t get the 190’s gear down and was forced to belly land it on the grass at Ansbach.
Post-crash photos of Carr show him walking around unhurt and wearing a neat, clean uniform—hardly the look of someone who had just evaded capture and flown a stolen Focke-Wulf to freedom.
I can’t believe that this story won’t just die and go away. Heroes like Bruce Carr don’t deserve to be tarred with lurid tales like this. Their real-life experiences should be more than enough for anyone.
Steve Sheflin

[Woke Up Dead]

Maybe that 190 pilot in the video was just mashing the control panel in panic looking for the ctrl-e or disconnect buttons, and hit the gear button instead?

Lots of emotion over a small technical detail.

[Buster_Dee]

Somone must have done more than bend the truth. I don't have the Airpower magazine article here (it's at work), but it does a fair bit of supposed "quoting" from Carr. If all you say is true, and Carr was (is) still living, he must have been one pi**ed off veteran.

[stugumby]

http://www.tonyrogers.com/humor/bruce_carr.htm

[Asheshouse]

More here
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8529&hilit=bruce+carr

Two sides to the story but the convincing money seems to be on the version that has the Fw190 taken from a captured airfield as a souvenir.

[Pershing]

More here
http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8529&hilit=bruce+carr

Two sides to the story but the convincing money seems to be on the version that has the Fw190 taken from a captured airfield as a souvenir.

Here is an REAL STORY about TRUE stealing of enemy Не-111Н-22 by soviet prisoner Michail Devyayaev and his comrades in 8.02.1945.

Devayataev was a fighter pilot, he was shot down on his P-39 in June 1944.
He and 10 more prisoners hijacked a new He-111H-22 from Usedom airfield.
Before this Devjataev studied He-111 cockpit with crashed spare parts and watched for pre-flight actions of german pilots. Also group was preparing rather long time. In 8.02.1945 ten half-dead prisoners killed one prison guard and captured "Heinkel", board number 13013.
Not everythig went smoоthly (for example, long time they tried to take off with no success, rudders were too tight for weakened
prisoners, Devyataev didn't know where was trimmer levers - and so on), but finally they did it!
Their He-111 made belly landing at Woldenberg (now Dobiegniew) on soviet territory. By the way, Davyataev's He-111 flew with released landing gear.
http://airaces.narod.ru/all6/devytav9.jpg
http://airaces.narod.ru/all6/devytav2.jpg
6 of 10 were sent on front and were killed in action.
Michail Devyataev became Hero of Soviet Union (decorated with Golden Star) in 1957 and died in 2002

Here is more(russian) (http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CF%EE%E1%E5%E3_%E3%F0%F3%EF%EF%FB_%C4%E5%E2%FF%F2 %E0%E5%E2%E0)

[GROHOT]

Devyataev could not operate at a normal work.
On the personal file was stamped unreliable element because he was in captivity.
Retirement, he received the minimum and no extra charge for participation in the war.
Realy sad story, but in Soviet Union we have many same story...

[nic727]

where is the patch?
I will start a new joke... One year left?

[Buren]

Two weeks.

Be sure.

When in doubt, refer to the Valve Time (https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time).

[anikollag]

[REL] 4.12 Official Release:o

[IceFire]

For all of those who doubted... tada! Now go play every single mission of the Finnish Hawk 75 campaign (you have to bear with the D.XXI and the Hurri Mark I for a bit too :)) that I put together with some help from a bunch of TD people.

[lineage3753]

First of all thank you very much for this awesome patch, just played a bit and really could see a LOT of differences that are good.
The only problem me and my fellow mates are countering is that, somehow we cannot use freetrack under widescreen. Is there any solution to that?

thx

[Snake]

I haven't encountered this type of problem! I've just installed the new patch over a clean 4.11.1 and everything it's fine! You might have a conflict somewhere!

[Mysticpuma]

Overall a great and much needed update. My only criticism is the smoke effect. It really just seems a little too artificial. The colours and density are great.....but the fact it doesn't fade out but just looks like a stuck on self contained Smokey bubble following the aircraft looks and is really distracting.

Is there any way to enhance it maybe so that the smoke is half the density but twice as long?

That way ot would at-least look like a smoke trail than a smoky non decaying stuck on blob?

Overall a huge step forward but I'd really much prefer a smoke trail than a smoke blob?

Cheers, MP

[Bearcat]

I agree 100%. I was noticing that myself.

[RickRuski]

Nice patch, but the sounds need a lot of work (Imo). A lot of engine sounds are the same, this is probably the worst part of the un-moded game.

[kapitansky]

TD Thanks for the gift of sound customized. This was an act of generosity on your part for the community, which I personally loved. You have my gratitude ... Beautiful patch TX

[IceFire]

Nice patch, but the sounds need a lot of work (Imo). A lot of engine sounds are the same, this is probably the worst part of the un-moded game.

4.12 didn't change the sounds but it did open the door to custom sound packs. The difficulty for TD to change sounds directly is because of copyright and licensing on recordings that would be necessary.

[skyrover]

GooD!!!
Hello,
I was trying to use S-79 AND RE-2000 but it is not even possible to look at the plane on QMB nor to fly them is anyone able to help?
regards

[ElAurens]

Wanted to try some level bombing in the SB 2M 100A, and it seems the level autopilot no longer works.

I checked and had to rebind the key combination I used to use, so did that, and yet it still is inoperative.

Nothing in the readme about it.

What's up?

As flying the aircraft and operating the bomb aimer's position is a recipe
for failure of the drop, how is bombing supposed to work in this aircraft?

[JtD]

Level autopilot is working for me, no change.

Please use 4.12 release topic for further discussion, this one's run its course.