Toe Break Set-up Problem

[BadBud]

I have a button set for toe breaks on my Saitek x52 controller, and want the R/L toe break Axis set for ground turning on my CHProducts Pro rudder pedals. But I have not been able to set the toe breaks as yet. In the Control/Axis menu, I double-click on left break and depress left toe break and it is applied, but when I double-click on right break and depress the right toe break, the same left break response comes up asking if I want to replace it ..........not good! What might I be doing wrong?
Thank you for any help,
BadBud
FaceBook: San Diego SimFlite (club)

[ATAG_Bliss]

Hi BadBud,

More than likely your problem has to do with what aircraft you are flying. I'm going to assume you are flying allied craft?

The Allied planes do not have toe brakes in RL and Cliffs has them modeled as such. For instance the spitfire has a handle on your control yoke you'd squeeze with one hand to apply braking pressure. But the real kicker is the differential braking occurs by the control of the rudder. If you look in the lower left of your instrument panel you'll see a differential brake pressure gauge. So as you are moving the rudder left or right you'll notice more brake pressure / applying power has been applied to the right or left side via when moving the rudder and holding the brake handle down.

So basically you'll have toe brakes in Axis aircraft, but you'll have differential braking in Allied aircraft. So you'll need to assign a different key for the use of brakes for the allied craft as toe brakes will not work. Most people assign toe brakes as you normally would and use those for the Axis craft, then have a brake lever / keyboard button / or similar assigned for brakes in the Allied craft.

If you look through the controls you'll see a separate assignment for braking. This is what you'll need to use for Allied craft. It's not a problem with your controls, it's just how the planes really were.

If this isn't your issue, then disregard everything I just said ;)

[BadBud]

Thanks,
Badbud

[BadBud]

Got the toe breaks set now in the sim and yes they do NOT work on the Brit planes, but do on the German. Why the setting took this time.............I do not know. I think once you screw up trying to set an axes up, you may have to shut the sim down and try again, which I did.
Thanks for the good advice.
BadBud
FaceBook: San Diego SimFlite club

[ATAG_Bliss]

Good stuff. Glad you got it working ;)

[Osprey]

For allied you can only set 1 of the 2 on the toe brakes, then it's digital, just like 1946. It needs fixing, it sucks.

[Artist]

For allied you can only set 1 of the 2 on the toe brakes, then it's digital, just like 1946. It needs fixing, it sucks.
No, it doesn't, Osprey. At least for the Spitfire Mk IIa I know that there wasn't any toe breaking. It was a lever on the spade-stick. And the differential breaking was done by applying left or right rudder. So assign a button on your joystick, use rudder and watch the differential break pressure on the gauge at the lower left...

Artist

[Osprey]

I know how it's meant to work, I'm just saying it's digital - full on or off.

Have you found an analogue method?

[WTE_Galway]

Actually IL2_1946 braking was not "digital".

If you assigned the brake function to a slider in 1946 you got variable brake pressure with differential pressure controlled by the pedals. The slider controlled the overall strength of braking and the pedals distributed it left/right.

What you could not do in 1946 is assign two brake pedals, hence no differential toe braking.

BACK ON TOPIC

The toe braking was an important advantage of the axis planes, especially on rough fields, so implementing it for allied planes would be giving the allied side an unhistorical advantage.

[Sokol1]

A
What you could not do in 1946 is assign two brake pedals, hence no differential toe braking.


With a exploit (http://simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2509880/1.html) in config.ini or using CH Mannager one is able to use "toe brakes" in any plane of IL-2 1946.

Sokol1

[Artist]

Osprey,

I know how it's meant to work, I'm just saying it's digital - full on or off.
Have you found an analogue method?
Yes, digitally analog or analogous digital: If you assign brake to a (joystick/keyboard)key, then that key increases braking power proportionally to how long you press it. Watch the gauge! What I do is "tapping" the key. Works just fine for me.

Could be that there's a difference between keyboard and joystick concerning the repeat rate (I have no idea if the repeat rate set in the windows keyboard configuration affects joystick buttons), so they may differ in their actual braking effect.

Haven't found a reliable source on the real life spitfire yet.

[Osprey]

I'll try and look that up in the Morgan and Shacklady book.

I think I've been misunderstood. I'm not trying to get toe braking like on the axis aircraft but a brake control which is not on or off, ie the harder I press, the stronger the braking effect. I am well aware that this control was on the spade but the fact that I will assign this to my right toe brake on my controls is up to me.

[Artist]

Hello Osprey,

no offence meant, none taken.

Hunting for evidence I came across the following, so far:

"17. Wheel brakes.—The brake lever is fitted on the control column spade grip and a catch for retaining it in the on position for parking is fitted below the lever pivot."
(SPITFIRE IX, XI & XVI PILOTS NOTES, Page 12)

"Passing Duxford`s Land Warfare Hall brakes ON/OFF, change hands - throttle hand to stick, stick hand to undercarriage. Lever Down “one thousand, two thousand, three thousand”, undercarriage lever out of the gate"
(Description (http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/5/language/en-CA/Moving-Up-by-the-Wartime-Route--Becoming-a-Spitfire-pilot.aspx) by Howard Cook, flying a Spitfire Mk V around the year 2001)

"The pneumatic brakes are not brilliant but, once you’re at ease with their ineffectiveness, you come to love the technique of combining footwork directional demand with pressure required being supplied by one or two fingers on your right hand squeezing the lever on the control column"
(Nigel Lamp flying (http://www.nigellamb.com/upload/documents/nigellamb_inprintfly1.pdf) a Spitfire Mk VIII)

"The pneumatic brakes, applied with a bicycle-like brake lever at the top of the stick, are feather light and very effective." and "Oh, and easy, very easy, on the brakes."
(Description (http://www.vintagewings.ca/VintageNews/Stories/tabid/116/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/255/language/en-CA/Flying-the-Spitfire--with-Mike-Potter.aspx) by Mike Potter, flying a Spitfire)

Seems kind of inconclusive to me...

Artist

[Sokol1]

squeezing the lever

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pe_mHveCsos#t=612s

The source of high-pressure air is controlled by the brake lever on the spade control grip, or stick. The rudder pedals modulate the distribution of pressure to the left and right main wheel brakes. If the pedals are even, equal braking is applied to both sides; as one rudder pedal is applied then more brake pressure is fed to that side. Strength of application is delivered by the hand lever on the grip.
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Supermarine-Spitfire.html


To SWERVE when taxiing out, use the RUDDER PEDALS to control the distribution of pressure to the right and left wheel brakes, i.e. - even pressure for going straight and uneven for swerving from side to side. The power of braking is controlled by the BRAKE LEVER on the control grip.



EASE the BRAKE LEVER ON and OFF GENTLY as the Spitfire rumbles along the grass.

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/archive/index.php?t-72714.html

???

Sokol1

[Artist]

Nice, Sokol1!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Pe_mHveCsos#t=612sWell, looks more like what I do with my button (tap, tap instead of squeeze, squeeze :)) than being able to fine control the brake power with the lever position. But the wording of the other sources is confusing, espacially the last (found an additional "apply a touch of BRAKE to stop the wheels rotating").

Preliminary, tentative guess at this point - looking at the fact that (a) the lever controls a valve for compressed air, (b) that the way of the lever appears rather short, and (c) the contradictive wording within the same article: You probably could vary the brake power with the lever to a certain degree if you concentrated on it. But in real life they used the 0-100-0-100-0 squeezing.

Anybody knows anybody who has flown a Spit ot Hurri that we could ask?

Artist