bf-109 flight characteristics

[macphail]

my plane bounces around way to much inflight, and it is almost impossible to aim at, or hit anything.

is it my flying, or is it just a crappy stick?

i'm using a cyborg 3d gold, about ten years old (ya, ya, i know)

my new logitech one will be delivered tomorrow, and i hope to see some better flight handling.

any comments would be most welcome.

[SlipBall]

Could be your old stick or maybe the setting's dead zone/sensitivity. Aircraft can be very un-comfortable at time's in RL:)

[macphail]

i agree, reducing the sensitivity should help a great deal! ill see what i can do. maybe i'll actually hit something tonight.

reduced sensitivity to 50%, and that seems very helpful, but the plane still wants to fly straight up when i let go of the stick.

i don't recall the old il-2 doing that. if anything i expect the 109 to pull to the right from prop torque. something seems not right...

[ZaltysZ]

My BF does not bounce. Full sensitivity. I never recommend using curves or deadzones, because they easily can kill agility and mess flying on edge.

It is normal for nose to rise when speed increases. You have to trim it for every speed change, if you want hands off level flight. By the way, trim of BF is different in CoD, than it was in old IL2. In old IL2 trim worked by moving neutral position, but in CoD it moves whole separate surface, so you may get situation, in which trim works (too much) against elevator. In such cases you may get "bouncy" feel, so check your trim.

[Bewolf]

i agree, reducing the sensitivity should help a great deal! ill see what i can do. maybe i'll actually hit something tonight.

reduced sensitivity to 50%, and that seems very helpful, but the plane still wants to fly straight up when i let go of the stick.

i don't recall the old il-2 doing that. if anything i expect the 109 to pull to the right from prop torque. something seems not right...

Where the 109 pulls, up, down, right, left is depending on speed and trim.
I am not a friend of reducing sensitivity or changing the deflection band.
I used to fly with such settings myself over quite a period, and even though it does improve gunnery when it comes to microcorrections, it has some bad habits when it comes to actual dogfighting, as pulling back the stick in turns is not a gradual expirience anymore. Whatever you gain in precision in one area you lose in another.

[macphail]

i have no idea how trim even works. i have never used it before. guess i should learn.

[robtek]

i have no idea how trim even works. i have never used it before. guess i should learn.

Without trim you are fighting the plane more then the enemy!

Always trim the plane to neutral flight, except for the start ( a bit nose up) and continous climbing (same) or landing (also nose up).

Usually only the bombers have all three trim axes, english fighters have 2 (rudder and elevator) and the 109 has only elevator, the 110, though, has all three axes.

Be aware that when your controls are shot up in most cases you can still fly (and that is correctly modeled) with trim alone.

[macphail]

what a severe pain in the ass! makes me want to not even play. sent me right into the bloody sea!!! uncontrollable....worse than before. are you guys really happy with this game???

[Bewolf]

what a severe pain in the ass! makes me want to not even play. sent me right into the bloody sea!!! uncontrollable....worse than before. are you guys really happy with this game???

Relax, young Padawan. Working with trim and finding a good flight envelope requires a lot of practice and training. This is not an arcade game, but a simulator. Planes back then simply behaved this way. Blame physics. This game has a lot of problems, but FM in general is not one of them.

But then again, you get the hang of it pretty quickly with a bit of practice.

Here is a good link for some basics

http://x-plane.deinon.com/aircraft_trim.pdf

Using an old joystick though probably also isn't ideal

[SlipBall]

what a severe pain in the ass! makes me want to not even play. sent me right into the bloody sea!!! uncontrollable....worse than before. are you guys really happy with this game???


You do know of the need, and have done a calibration of your stick? :)

[mxmadman]

Hey fellow newbie! I, too, am just learning to get around the skies in a decent manner in CoD, but I can tell you that if you're trimming is making your flying LESS controllable you're doing it wrong. The idea is to get the plane to fly straight and level (unless you want to climb, or dive, or some other desired effect).

First make sure you've assigned all 3 necessary trim controls to keys or better yet an axis. Once your new joystick arrives you may have extra rotation axis. These are perfect for trim settings.

You need to have increase/decrease buttons (if not using an axis as stated above) for: elevator, rudder, and aelirons. You will be using the aeliron trim the least, so assign it as the lowest priority.

If your plane is nosing up, you want to decrease the elevator slowly until it flies level. Once you change a setting you have to wait to see how the plane reacts; this doesn't happen instantly. If after you're plane has adjusted to the new trim you realize you need to go a little farther with it, or you've already gone too far, then re-adjust.

Give it 20-30 minutes where all you do is try to trim your plane, then mess up the trim on purpose and do it again, you'll get the hang of it quickly.

Also, if you need to use button because you don't have extra axis then also assign a 'reset trim' for all 3: rudder, elevator, and aeliron.

Also, google/youtube this as watching it visually may give you a better understanding. Good luck and happy flying!

[macphail]

You do know of the need, and have done a calibration of your stick? :)

yes, of course.

[macphail]

Hey fellow newbie! I, too, am just learning to get around the skies in a decent manner in CoD, but I can tell you that if you're trimming is making your flying LESS controllable you're doing it wrong. The idea is to get the plane to fly straight and level (unless you want to climb, or dive, or some other desired effect).

First make sure you've assigned all 3 necessary trim controls to keys or better yet an axis. Once your new joystick arrives you may have extra rotation axis. These are perfect for trim settings.

You need to have increase/decrease buttons (if not using an axis as stated above) for: elevator, rudder, and aelirons. You will be using the aeliron trim the least, so assign it as the lowest priority.

If your plane is nosing up, you want to decrease the elevator slowly until it flies level. Once you change a setting you have to wait to see how the plane reacts; this doesn't happen instantly. If after you're plane has adjusted to the new trim you realize you need to go a little farther with it, or you've already gone too far, then re-adjust.

Give it 20-30 minutes where all you do is try to trim your plane, then mess up the trim on purpose and do it again, you'll get the hang of it quickly.

Also, if you need to use button because you don't have extra axis then also assign a 'reset trim' for all 3: rudder, elevator, and aeliron.

Also, google/youtube this as watching it visually may give you a better understanding. Good luck and happy flying!

this sounds like excellent advice. i'll try this as soon as my new stick gets here...thanks. i'll let you know how it works out.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Suggest you set trim to a rotary wheel if you have one. It can be very uncontrolable with keys.

[macphail]

Suggest you set trim to a rotary wheel if you have one. It can be very uncontrolable with keys.

how many bloody joysticks do i need? only have a few axis, i need most of them to fly, the extra one for throttle.

i seem to have the elevator trim under control, but its still rolling to starboard pretty bad. im not sure if thats rudder or aerilon. anyway, some improvement.

new stick is nice!

[macphail]

Without trim you are fighting the plane more then the enemy!

Always trim the plane to neutral flight, except for the start ( a bit nose up) and continous climbing (same) or landing (also nose up).

Usually only the bombers have all three trim axes, english fighters have 2 (rudder and elevator) and the 109 has only elevator, the 110, though, has all three axes.

Be aware that when your controls are shot up in most cases you can still fly (and that is correctly modeled) with trim alone.

this would explain why i can't trim the roll in the 109. elevator seems under control though.

[5./JG27.Farber]

how many bloody joysticks do i need? only have a few axis, i need most of them to fly, the extra one for throttle.

i seem to have the elevator trim under control, but its still rolling to starboard pretty bad. im not sure if thats rudder or aerilon. anyway, some improvement.

new stick is nice!


Hehe :-P That roll never goes away. Its the torque of the engine. If you want to be a 109 pilot you have to get used to flying with the stick on a bit of a tilt...

[macphail]

Hehe :-P That roll never goes away. Its the torque of the engine. If you want to be a 109 pilot you have to get used to flying with the stick on a bit of a tilt...

sure, i quite expected that, and to be honest, i was quite shocked and surprised when i hit the key for full left trim, and i could actually feel it. it made no sense, but, there it is.

[SDDrew]

If your having trouble trimming the plane, try trimming the plane in this order:
1. Pitch- for either level, climb or decent
2. Power- Set ur power for the configurations I said before. (Level, Climb, Decent)
3. Trim- Now trim for "Hands-Off" flying. Since these are WWII planes u will not be able to fly hands-off for long, but at least you will know your not fighting the plane.

[TomcatViP]

There is an indicator for the elevator with number tht give you an indication of wht trim you hve applied. Generally, you fight the engine torque with the rudder. You hve to use your right foot and keep it on the pedal for your entire flight. After a bit of use, it became a second nature.

Flying at med altitude straight and level at 400kph engine at 2100RPM and 1.2 ata boost your plane shld be nearly perfectly trimmed (with the help of down elevator trim). It's easy to rember : all needles at a 12hr position. ;)

I hope you will not give up easily. Plane Simulation are really enjoyable once you get pass the learning phase.

~S!