Ever Wondered About CLOD Sales?

[ElAurens]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.

Now you know why moving to the sequel is so important.

We are a tiny niche market.

Giving us demanding flight simmers what we want (more of everything) is a nearly impossible economic model with the numbers of players the sim has.

[Jughead Jones]

Is VGChartz reputable? I could not find where they pull there numbers from. If so that is a shame about IL2 COD. I wish more people enjoyed simming.

With the reviews about this game on launch though it is less than suprising. If only we had closer to BF3 numbers than we would probably be flying a much more finished product.

[SlipBall]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.

Now you know why moving to the sequel is so important.

We are a tiny niche market.

Giving us demanding flight simmers what we want (more of everything) is a nearly impossible economic model with the numbers of players the sim has.


Oh well...I always pushed to include a civilian element to the sim:)

[pupo162]

are they considering Russia in europe?

this always confuses me.

10.000 x lets say 30 euro = 300.000 euro. not that much, but given the game state......

[RedToo]

According to them Flight Simulator X is only 20,000 units .....

RedToo.

[5./JG27.Farber]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.

Now you know why moving to the sequel is so important.

We are a tiny niche market.

Giving us demanding flight simmers what we want (more of everything) is a nearly impossible economic model with the numbers of players the sim has.

What do you mean 10,000 +/-?

It says Europe 0.01million, rest of would 20%? So the biggest market is Europe? Would Russia and the east not be as big as Europe if not bigger? Then you can add, Asia, Japan, Oz, South America, North America.

I would not trust those stats as far as I could throw them. It just doesnt add up.

Yea the sim market is pretty niche but we knew that anyway. :-P

[5./JG27.Farber]

are they considering Russia in europe?

this always confuses me.

10.000 x lets say 30 euro = 300.000 euro. not that much, but given the game state......


You forgot to factor for Europe - Ubisofts cut and tax, currency exchange costs. Wether the game is a disk copy or D2D... Disk copies must be shipped, hauled. If you were talking about the actual amount of cash 1c getsper copy, its closer to 10.

Ahhh just another day in the rumour mill... Next you will all be bleating that 1c is going bust. :-P

[Foo'bar]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.

Now you know why moving to the sequel is so important.

We are a tiny niche market.

Giving us demanding flight simmers what we want (more of everything) is a nearly impossible economic model with the numbers of players the sim has.

Without Germany almost nothing would have been sold. It's time to speak german here in this forum :mh:

[von Brühl]

are they considering Russia in europe?

this always confuses me.

10.000 x lets say 30 euro = 300.000 euro. not that much, but given the game state......

Almost half of Russia is in Europe no? I would think RU figures probably aren't in there, but should be. Seeing how the game is called something else, and doesn't need Steam in RU, I bet those numbers don't include the Russian sales.

[TheEnlightenedFlorist]

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=139961

The reason is that we don't have a way of tracking digital sales.

Seeing as how Cliffs of Dover is a Steam game, they're probably missing a lot of sales... :rolleyes:

[ACE-OF-ACES]

We are a tiny niche market.
flight simming.. Allways has been.. most likly allways will be! ;)

[nearmiss]

All the developer has to do is provide a star wars, or newbie clickon for those types of users.

There are features built in that do that, but it is easy to forget the newbs and people that are into that genre are gamer mentality.

All developers know what they are up against. I appreciate all the efforts on our behalf as dedicated air combat sim enthusiats, but if number of boxes sold is important they have to find a way to capture that business.

You can't do it with a bunch of click ons,complex configuration, setups and advance quality hardware items.

They have to think of ways to get people involved with a few simple clickons and minimum hardware requirements to get started. Then have the ability for interested users to move to more advance levels.

There are several cheap joysticks AV8R, etc., that will fill the bill for cheap entry hardware. The graphics enhancement need a progressive way to access better and better graphics, but there must be lower graphic requirements for newbs. Getting people involved with the COD is the secret to more users.

I have given away numerous copies of the IL2 sturmovik 1946, and I don't think there is a single one of those people that even have it on their HDD at this time. Why is that I ask myself?

There have been plenty of air combat games released and people do buy them, because they keep coming to market.

Facts are facts, and the COD with C.E.M. and other complexities aren't a best start for anyone. There are just too many things competing for people's free or leisure time. W.O.W - Everquest have captured huge market. Anyone planning a game of any kind should carefully strategize with those game in mind. IMO, they remind me of Pachinko. Redundant hacking or beating on enemies is boring in about 3 minutes.

There is something to say about rewards system that is sure, which is pretty low priority with IL2 and COD. Hitler believed in awards and accolades for sure, and had a zillion medals for anyone did well.

I've often though no one should enter the game except at lowest levels, and advance in rank and medals. There was quite abit of this with early release of IL2, but the way to acquire the advancement was hampered by the AI that were terrible and the stupid mission and campaign scenarios. It was better to just become a flight leaders to start with high rank, because following the AI probably meant you would never get anywhere.

So rewards system has to be carefully planned for maintaining user interest.

[Chivas]

The developers/publishers probably will never get their monies back with the sales of COD. The only reason the development is still in business, is the business model calls for a series of theaters. The main reason that COD probably won't see a profit is that the game engine was being developed at the same time as the theater. Once the game engine is complete, the developers/publisher can start pumping out theaters quickly and cheaply, which will start generating profits.

With the release of the SDK, it will not only expand the IL-2 series, but some in the free flight community might prefer flying over IL-2 series terrain than Microsoft Flight terrain as both series expand. Maybe at some point drivable tanks might draw many in the Tank sim community to the FMB and maps of the IL-2 series.

The future could be bright, or die, but the community certainly doesn't need any Debbie Downers casting a pawl over the development at this critical juncture.

[Tree_UK]

If only they hadn't released it in such a broken state :(

[furbs]

The developers/publishers probably will never get their monies back with the sales of COD. The only reason the development is still in business, is the business model calls for a series of theaters. The main reason that COD probably won't see a profit is that the game engine was being developed at the same time as the theater. Once the game engine is complete, the developers/publisher can start pumping out theaters quickly and cheaply, which will start generating profits.

With the release of the SDK, it will not only expand the IL-2 series, but some in the free flight community might prefer flying over IL-2 series terrain than Microsoft Flight terrain as both series expand. Maybe at some point drivable tanks might draw many in the Tank sim community to the FMB and maps of the IL-2 series.

The future could be bright, or die, but the community certainly doesn't need any Debbie Downers casting a pawl over the development at this critical juncture.

Wrong ....we need the Sim to work for 95% of people without crashing. Then we need historical FMs, a AI that allows single player to not be a total wash out.

Then it might start getting some good reviews and word of mouth.
Then we might start seeing more than 50 people playing CLOD across the world.

[jimbop]

Have to say I agree with nearmiss' ideas. The key is getting new people through the door. Other arcade sims are good for that (I came from WoP which lasted about a week) but would be better if there were more gaming elements. And before you flame me I only fly on full real servers. And, yes, Tree, the bad reviews for CoD wouldn't help but here's hoping for a brighter future hey?

[smink1701]

anyone know the sales to date of the IL2 franchise?

[41Sqn_Stormcrow]

Perhaps we really need some blockbuster ww2 fighter holiwood movie in 3d. Sort of American Airforce vs Aliens or so to boost sales.

[swiss]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?


That is only a part of the hardcopies.
Steam does NOT give out any data. So unless 1C wants the numbers published we will never know.

[priller26]

What do you mean 10,000 +/-?

It says Europe 0.01million, rest of would 20%? So the biggest market is Europe? Would Russia and the east not be as big as Europe if not bigger? Then you can add, Asia, Japan, Oz, South America, North America.

I would not trust those stats as far as I could throw them. It just doesnt add up.

Yea the sim market is pretty niche but we knew that anyway. :-P

Interesting, I had always wondered what sales were on this software. Russia would swallow up Europe and other countries, problem is, the number of individuals who could invest in a system their like in the West to play the title is quite low. The future of this game is directly tied to sequel sales, and obviously getting the patches right. IC has every incentive to get it right, they will with time. Time does cost money though, lets just hope its sooner than later, as I'd like to see the series continue.

[kestrel79]

This game had almost absolutely no marketing. The website was horrible, had no info about the game really either. They even had a facebook page. That's FREE. And they could barely update that with any juicy tidbits. Twitter?

When I'm on facebook and websites I look at what other sim publishers are doing and it is so much better than CloD. World of Planes website is very cool and informative. Train Simulator updates their facebook almost every day with screenshots and info from the devs. RoF Jason writes great blogs. He's a great salesmen the way to talks about needing our cash to keep their sim going. I believe it too.

I think if they release the game in a better state in Fall of '11 in time with the BoB and have a better marketing campaign it sells better. I really hope they learn from their mistakes with BoM.

I do agree with all these sims having a trickle down effect. A kid gets into World of Warplanes, or World of Planes, Microsoft Flight. He then realizes he wants more realism, or more planes. Then gets into IL2 46 for cheap, then wants even more hardcore and gets info CloD. That path led me here when I got hooked on Air Warrior on AOL in the mid 90s :)

[PhilHL]

i just know that 1c have now more employes for COD than they ever had and luthier said that they are developing the sequel. long time ago oleg said that they will only develop new parts for the game if COD will be a success.

[kestrel79]

Well the pressure is on with BoM, they have to deliver. If it's an awesome game then I'm sure no doubt it will spark interest in CloD. They will probably release a "gold pack" that has both.

That's how I originally got into IL2...I bought IL2 FB plus the AEP used at gamestop for like 10 bucks in 2004 after flying IL2 at "Flight Sim Day" at EAA museum. Then I went on to buy Pacific Fighters, and the PE-2 addon, plus IL2-46, and CloD. So they have made some cash off me and all of us over the years. Once you get someone hooked they want more and will buy the back catalogue of games too.

[Feathered_IV]

This game had almost absolutely no marketing. The website was horrible, had no info about the game really either.

I know what you mean. Given the condition of the game though, it is probably better that they don't draw too much attention to themselves. It would do more harm than good to vigorously promote a title that still isn't in an acceptable state.

[speculum jockey]

Assuming that they get the game to a "finished state" and actually add some content, they should really advertise the crap out of Battle of Moscow. You can't move copies if you don't let the people know it's out there. People who would have never considered Fallout 3 bought it opening day because they saw a lot of cool explosions and stuff on the TV. Do the same for Cliffs of Dover, put that "Cliffs of Dover Pulse" video on TV during some popular show, just once and I will guarantee you will make back double what you spent to put it on the air.

Remember that time that Apple didn't bother to advertise the original iphone? Remember how they kept it a big secret and made sure they didn't spend a cent on letting people know it existed and they could actually buy it?

Of course not! Because that's retarded, and 1C/Ubi would be the same to not advertise BOM. When "word of mouth" or a scrolling ad in the Steam store is the only way you hear about a game, you know your publishers are doing something wrong.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

The website was horrible, had no info about the game really either.
Really?

If what your saying is true, than what are the people who say things like "I want CoD as advertised" basing thier statments on?

[Feathered_IV]

Really?

If what your saying is true, than what are the people who say things like "I want CoD as advertised" basing thier statments on?

Think man. It'll come to you.

[kestrel79]

Tell me this is a good flight sim website.

http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dover/en-gb/home/index.aspx

All the patch info is old. Times New Roman text...facebook page that hasn't been updated since launch. I understand they don't get get a budget like a Call of Duty type fps game but still.

Now look at this, much better website with actual up to date info about the game and lots of pretty screenshots and videos.

http://worldofplanesgame.com/en/

http://riseofflight.com/en/about/features

No diss on CloD, I love it. I'm in graphics so I just am interested in the marketing side of things :)

[csThor]

Simply put: Ubisoft wouldn't know a decent marketing if it was a bat which was used to beat Ubisoft to death with. They never got a marketing campaign right in all the time with the original Il-2 line ... never. I really hope the contract between 1C and Ubi runs out before the sequel comes ... maybe a new international publisher would do better. :-|

EDIT: And a personal comment. All those facebook/twitter/whatever stuff; I don't know if I'd call marketing there positive. I, for sure, have no account in such systems. I don't want to do a virtual striptease and spread my personal data. ;)

[mazex]

flight simming.. Allways has been.. most likly allways will be! ;)

OK, let me guess your age after a statement like that? ;) In the 80:ies and 90:ies flight simulators was one of the major game genres. Every other PC gaming magazine had an aircraft on the cover... But those where the days when most of the gaming rigs in the world where owned by engineers ;)

Mazex

[Tvrdi]

Tell me this is a good flight sim website.

http://il2sturmovik.ubi.com/cliffs-of-dover/en-gb/home/index.aspx

All the patch info is old. Times New Roman text...facebook page that hasn't been updated since launch. I understand they don't get get a budget like a Call of Duty type fps game but still.

Now look at this, much better website with actual up to date info about the game and lots of pretty screenshots and videos.

http://worldofplanesgame.com/en/

http://riseofflight.com/en/about/features

No diss on CloD, I love it. I'm in graphics so I just am interested in the marketing side of things :)

Who are you to argue with the all mighty defender, the ACE OF THE ACES? On your knees whinie!

:-)

[JG5_emil]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.

Now you know why moving to the sequel is so important.

We are a tiny niche market.

Giving us demanding flight simmers what we want (more of everything) is a nearly impossible economic model with the numbers of players the sim has.

I saw this as well but I have also read that Steam don't release their sales figures so maybe that doesn't include the main retailer in the equation?

Would be interested to know myself

[Feathered_IV]

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/53111/il-2-sturmovik-cliffs-of-dover/

How does 10,000 +/- sound?

Pretty sobering number.


The really sobering thought is that even if that number were the entirety of clod sales to date, it just goes to show how insignificant are the antics of us 50 to 100 blowhards who hang around this place. We hardly speak for the majority, and if Steam sales were taken into account, we wouldn't even make 1 percent.

[bolox]

+ 9,900;)

[Dano]

The really sobering thought is that even if that number were the entirety of clod sales to date, it just goes to show how insignificant are the antics of us 50 to 100 blowhards who hang around this place. We hardly speak for the majority, and if Steam sales were taken into account, we wouldn't even make 1 percent.

It has been known for a very long time that forums represent a minority. Most people are playing their games instead of arguing about them :p

[Rowddy]

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=139961



Seeing as how Cliffs of Dover is a Steam game, they're probably missing a lot of sales... :rolleyes:



Amen!! But that's their own fault for choosing that path. I would love to see Steam go the sooner the better. That programm is the pest and the best reason ever to switch to a game console. The second reason sales are bad is the fact that not everyone plays online CLOD. The number of people that play offline is greater they ever expected, and just that part of the game is unplayable :( But at least (i hope) they are trying to fix. Steam will always be crap.

[Dano]

Amen!! But that's their own fault for choosing that path. I would love to see Steam go the sooner the better. That programm is the pest and the best reason ever to switch to a game console.

I think he was talking about the count of sales numbers not that steam was putting people off.

[ElAurens]

I doubt that Steam sales amount to a hill of beans really.

[icarus]

I doubt that Steam sales amount to a hill of beans really.

Exactly.

Even if it was another 10,000, that still doesn't amount to a hill of beans in the software industry.

FSX sold 280,000 in 2007
Falcon 4.0 sold 100,000 copies. Allied Force sold out in the first week.
Warcraft sold 2.2 million

[swiss]

I doubt that Steam sales amount to a hill of beans really.

But it will be several times the amount of hardcopies. No one buys them anymore - some Retroguys maybe.
It's pointless anyway, the data on the disc has no value, almost 100% will be outdated in no time. Just look at Clod.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Think man. It'll come to you.
Ok give me a second.. Emmmmm Ok got it, I thought about it and I noticed that you didn't list any or provide links to the so called advertisements some claim to be so upset about

[ACE-OF-ACES]

OK, let me guess your age after a statement like that? ;) In the 80:ies and 90:ies flight simulators was one of the major game genres. Every other PC gaming magazine had an aircraft on the cover... But those where the days when most of the gaming rigs in the world where owned by engineers ;)
Yupp! ;)

Played my 1st PC sim around 1986 on a commodore 64 in the barracks in Wurzburg Germany. Than didn't play one again (Dynamix Red Baron) until around 1991 when I got my 1st PC while going to collage. Did my first flight sim mod (added rockets to the P38) for a game called SWOTL.. Than made a lot of mods for AOTP and AOE.. Played my 1st true online sim called Air Warrior Online (Genie network) at a cost of $12/hr. Fell in love again with PAW 1942 which was the first 6DOF flight model implemented in a PC flight sim game.. Tried my hand at modern flight sims with a sim called Falcon 3.0, Than waited for a few years for EAW to come out.. In the mean time joined and played Warbrids for years.. Than a little sim called IL-2 came out that change everthing again. And than 10 years later.. Here we are

[Rowddy]

I think he was talking about the count of sales numbers not that steam was putting people off.

well one has something to do with the other no? ;)

[Rowddy]

But it will be several times the amount of hardcopies. No one buys them anymore - some Retroguys maybe.
It's pointless anyway, the data on the disc has no value, almost 100% will be outdated in no time. Just look at Clod.


i strongly dissagre with that.. 1st with a hardcopy you actualy own the game not lease it from some shady company who can pull the plug out of yur game at any time.

2th the data has always value because it's the basic game whe you need to reinstall you can always update the patches again manualy (if you know how that works)

3th because of a group of game developers force you to use STEAM, doesn't make it a good product.

[swiss]

i strongly dissagre with that.. 1st with a hardcopy you actualy own the game not lease it from some shady company who can pull the plug out of yur game at any time.

2th the data has always value because it's the basic game whe you need to reinstall you can always update the patches again manualy (if you know how that works)

3th because of a group of game developers force you to use STEAM, doesn't make it a good product.

BS! you own the key, you own the progi. No one gives a sh.. wheter you have a physical CD.
What if you own a Windows CD but not the key? You see...

2. No. All the data you install will be instantly overwritten as soon as you register. Did you ever look at the size of those updates?

3. True. Completely off topic and irrelevant though.
(I hate Steam too if it makes you feel any better)

[Buchon]

All the developer has to do is provide a star wars, or newbie clickon for those types of users.

There are features built in that do that, but it is easy to forget the newbs and people that are into that genre are gamer mentality.

All developers know what they are up against. I appreciate all the efforts on our behalf as dedicated air combat sim enthusiats, but if number of boxes sold is important they have to find a way to capture that business.

You can't do it with a bunch of click ons,complex configuration, setups and advance quality hardware items.

They have to think of ways to get people involved with a few simple clickons and minimum hardware requirements to get started. Then have the ability for interested users to move to more advance levels.

There are several cheap joysticks AV8R, etc., that will fill the bill for cheap entry hardware. The graphics enhancement need a progressive way to access better and better graphics, but there must be lower graphic requirements for newbs. Getting people involved with the COD is the secret to more users.

I have given away numerous copies of the IL2 sturmovik 1946, and I don't think there is a single one of those people that even have it on their HDD at this time. Why is that I ask myself?

There have been plenty of air combat games released and people do buy them, because they keep coming to market.

Facts are facts, and the COD with C.E.M. and other complexities aren't a best start for anyone. There are just too many things competing for people's free or leisure time. W.O.W - Everquest have captured huge market. Anyone planning a game of any kind should carefully strategize with those game in mind. IMO, they remind me of Pachinko. Redundant hacking or beating on enemies is boring in about 3 minutes.

There is something to say about rewards system that is sure, which is pretty low priority with IL2 and COD. Hitler believed in awards and accolades for sure, and had a zillion medals for anyone did well.

I've often though no one should enter the game except at lowest levels, and advance in rank and medals. There was quite abit of this with early release of IL2, but the way to acquire the advancement was hampered by the AI that were terrible and the stupid mission and campaign scenarios. It was better to just become a flight leaders to start with high rank, because following the AI probably meant you would never get anywhere.

So rewards system has to be carefully planned for maintaining user interest.

A reward system is not only necessary but only a piece of a fix.




First all we have to learn that there a ditance between the general public and the simulation games, then we can realize that the problem of this games is the own cornering in his complexity, may be due a fear to lose that simulation status scribed on some stone, some where ...

But not all simulation games are cornered in his self, there succesful simulation models out there, I will give a example, is not the best example but easy to understand to all

Gran Turismo :

This cars game have complex physics, tire degrading, dampers tweaking, engine tweaking, body tweaking ... we have to obtain licenses to play races, tweak the cars to win races, win events to access to more events ... and the list goes and goes ...

The complexity of this game can frustrate any player, forget it and go to play any Need For Speed version that are out now.

But it does not, there millions of players playing it, why ??

The key is :

Simulation + entertainment


Gran Turismo is not only a strict cars simulation game, it is a strict simulation game but also is pure entertainment.

It takes any inexperienced player and brings it between cottons, trough nice music and menus, to the most demanding simulation, the player progress his self without lose motivation trough the incentivation and stimulation .


Back to PC Simulation :

If we make a raw simulator it will be bearable for experienced players only, making only niches audience, because if we throw a usual player to raw simulation without the knowledge and motivation then he will burn and crash without known how and why, and without motivation to try it again.


We should not forget that after all we have a game in our hands.

This basic words are ignored for simulation titles and at same time, in his stubborn, are not able to understand why they have a niche audience.


It is not enough with make a simulation, because betwen the player and the simulation you should make a properly interface too.

A entertaining interface that through amusing brings to the player the knowledge and show the excelence of your simulation.

Some PC simulation games are aware of this problem and they started to work seriously on interface designs, you can see a example of this in PC simulation with Project C.A.R.S (Community Assisted Racing Simulation) :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SzJd6eAH5M


You can see a really worked and pretty 3D interface, easy and clean, guess that with nice music ...

But back to WWII here a example of interface, although the game is an arcade Wings of Prey have a amusing menus interface with video background and outstanding music :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdTG8gowl3U


All this showroom is pure entertainment and stimulates the player to navigate through the menus, missions, setups and briefings.

Back to CLOD :

CLOD was lauched in a rush so the user interface is not complete but even if is working is nothing but a disordered´s lack of interactive stimulation.

A good interface for CLOD could be a mix of video background for main menus and 3D where see our plane for setups and briefings, also properly mission intro and properly end mission options as replay and camera options, all with nice music ;)


We should understand that this is very important for the succes of a simulation game, the level of complexity of a game should be supported by interface.

else = fail



Sry for the text wall, greets.

[swiss]

Buchon, a Sim can NEVER EVER be entertaining*.

If its a sim you'll need dozens of keyboard commands and hardware worth several $100 bucks - plus a few hundred hours learning the game.
The entertainment clique will hate you for it.

If it's fun, all you need is gamepad - then the sim crowd will hate you.


GT only takes a console, a $90 FFB wheel and one Saturday. After that you will be able to run against 90% of the online crowd.

You cannot fill this gap, ever.



*Edit: Maybe ROF, I guess hat's why I deleted it after 30' online experience...

[csThor]

Playing a sim doesn't exclude entertainment or fun. It's just that fun is something different for everyone. Some people like having it out with fighters, some like flying historical missions, some have fun while fiddling with the systems of a Ju 88 or juggling the precarious engine temper of a Blenheim.

IMO the key to getting entertainment from a simulation is good gameplay. And ATM Clod doesn't have any of that ... apart from the very personal interests of a player. There is no gameplay to speak of (no campaign system and what came as campaigns were a bad joke) and the most interesting online features (living world via AI involvement and submissions) aren't working due to the engine issues.

[Buchon]

Has I said GT is not the best example.

I put here because is a example that the mass public actually play simulators for millions, and invest in seats and wheels, thats all.

Im not saying setting down the simulation for an increase of entertainment, Project C.A.R.S cant be played with a pad and also have lot of buttons, I mean ... why cant we see our plane in a 3d interface, with a free cam and nice background music, while we set our load ;)

[csThor]

Because 3D stuff needs to be modeled, a plain interface with just graphics can be reused with new gfx for another theater. This is a lot quicker than having another render for each object, especially when the series is planned to cover a lot of area and time.

[Buchon]

Because 3D stuff needs to be modeled, a plain interface with just graphics can be reused with new gfx for another theater. This is a lot quicker than having another render for each object, especially when the series is planned to cover a lot of area and time.

You can set the plane load screen in a map location for example.

I did not said that is easy but very a complex work as also important, interface design is not easy task and in this type of simulators is a unexplored terrain.

[Feathered_IV]

Ok give me a second.. Emmmmm Ok got it, I thought about it and I noticed that you didn't list any or provide links to the so called advertisements some claim to be so upset about

Try harder. Think for yourself.

[ACE-OF-ACES]

Try harder. Think for yourself.
Ok give me a second..

Emmmmm Ok got it, I thought about it and I noticed that you didn't list any so called unfulfilled advertisements that some claim to exist and are so upset about. Nor was I able to find and therefore list any unfulfilled advertisements

Better?

[speculum jockey]

Amen!! But that's their own fault for choosing that path. I would love to see Steam go the sooner the better. That programm is the pest and the best reason ever to switch to a game console. The second reason sales are bad is the fact that not everyone plays online CLOD. The number of people that play offline is greater they ever expected, and just that part of the game is unplayable :( But at least (i hope) they are trying to fix. Steam will always be crap.

Yes, I hope as well that the platform that is pretty much single-handedly saving the PC as a gaming platform dies as well. If it wasn't for Steam and the distribution system it spawned, the PC gaming market would probably be 1/2 of what it is now, and Cliffs of Dover would never have been started due to the lackluster prospects of "breaking even" it would have had.

You guys really need to pull your heads out of your exhausts and get with the times. The percentage of gamers who want to buy a plastic disk with a game on it are turning into a smaller and smaller minority every day, and for some reason it seems to be only the Cliffs of Dover fans that have a problem with it.

Also the reason why so many people play offline is that they were getting booted because of the bugs, and playing an uninspired and repetitive dogfight every time is boring to most.

[csThor]

You can set the plane load screen in a map location for example.

I did not said that is easy but very a complex work as also important, interface design is not easy task and in this type of simulators is a unexplored terrain.

We, a part of the german community that is, have had this discussion with Maddox Games two or three years back when we were asked for opinions on what a decent interface should contain and look like (old connections ;)). Simply put one of the major arguments against that "oooh!aaaah!" type of fully rendered interface was the amount of work needed to create for each and every release (specific to the theme to boot). In the end we had the idea of having one unique camera point per airfield and add some high poly objects such as a map stand, camo net etc in the foreground while the game's vehicles and aircraft were used to populate the background. But even that idea came to naught.